Korea: The First War We Lost

[Tiqiu]

Author
Bevin Alexander
bevinalexander.com
Bevin Alexander is an American military historian and author. He served as an officer during the Korean War as part of the 5th Historical Detachment. His book Korea: The First War We Lost was largely influenced by his experiences during the war.Wikipedia
Born: United States of America


Praise for Korea: The First War We Lost
"This.fast-moving study is the first to be written by a professional army historian.superb.capably challenges many of the traditional interpretations." -Library Journal

"The best overview of the Korean conflict since Fehrenbach's This Kind of War...a balanced, perceptive accounting..." -Kirkus Review "A desirable acquisition for most military collections." -ALA Booklist

"Bevin Alexander...argues in this well-researched and readable book that the United States fought two wars in Korea, winning one against North Korea and losing the other to Communist China." -The New York Times


Quote from the book
"Great efforts to conquer North Korea ended in failure."

“The United States spends nearly two decades after signing the armistice in deep animosity to Red China. The conflict ends only in February 1972 when Richard Nixon goes to China and reaches a settlement.”


Something hardly talked about in West Media

"The Battle of Triangle Hill (上甘岭战役) was the biggest and bloodiest contest of 1952.[13] After 42 days of heavy fighting, the Eighth Army had failed to gain the two hill masses that were its original goal."

"After suffering over 4,000 casualties in ten days, the failure of the last attack ended the 45th Division's role as the only combatant on the Chinese side.[58]"

"Although the Chinese had suffered 11,500 casualties with many units decimated during the battle, its ability to sustain such losses had slowly exhausted the US Eighth Army over two months of attrition.Meanwhile, the high UN casualties forced Clark to suspend any upcoming offensive operations involving more than one battalion, effectively preventing any major UN offensives for the rest of the war.[89][90] Clark and US President Harry S. Truman later confided that the battle was a serious blow to the UN morale."

"Despite its impact and scale, the Battle of Triangle Hill is one of the least known episodes of the Korean War within the Western media.[87]"
source: Battle of Triangle Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The battle for Hill 598 in the Triangle Hill area was as severe. The UNC was defeated and lost 9,000 casualties in 42 days."

"The last two months of the war was one of its most bloody periods. It cost 53,000 UN and 105,000 communist casualties, the majority inflicted by artillery. In this same period over 700,000 communist artillery rounds hit UNC positions and 4,900,000 UNC artillery rounds were fired in response."
source: Trench warfare | Stalemate, the War in 1952–1953 | Australia's involvement in the Korean War

 

[Tiqiu]

Chinese People's Volunteer Army (CPV) joined the Korean war in Nov 1950

 

[Akasa]

This is going to be a very, very crude simplification, but both sides managed to achieve their goal.

The UN managed to repel KPA forces from South Korea and hereby prevent a North Korean takeover.
The Chinese managed to repel UN forces from the Chinese border and hence prevent UN forces from crossing the Yalu.

 

[xunzi]

Had we have the firepower of today, that war would not end in an armistice.

 

[Akasa]

Had we have the firepower of today, that war would not end in an armistice.

That's the equivalent of saying "if we had alien technology, we would be dominating the world today".

 

[Dungeness]

Salute to those brave PVA soldiers! Their legacy is engraved in the history of China.

 

[jhungary]

This is going to be a very, very crude simplification, but both sides managed to achieve their goal.

The UN managed to repel KPA forces from South Korea and hereby prevent a North Korean takeover.
The Chinese managed to repel UN forces from the Chinese border and hence prevent UN forces from crossing the Yalu.

both side actually did not achieve their overall strategically objective. Only tactical objective on both side are achieved. If this war have to declare a winner, no one win in this war, especially the war have actually not over.

In a brief look, the UN achieve their first tactical objective by pushing the North Korean out of South Korea, but failed when they modified their objective to expel the North Korean in total, by Chinese intervention.

China, also achieve their first tactical objective by pushing the UN force just south of North Korea, however, they themselves crossed into South Korea and failed their objective to roll over the South Korean and UN force.

Shall UN stopped at 38 parallel in the first setting, UN would have won the war with both Tactical and Strategically Objective achieved.

Shall China stopped at 38 parallel as well, they would also have won the war, but the fact is, neither one did stop at that, hence neither actually won.

On the other hand, since nobody won, that also mean nobody actually lose. The war, best stated. would be in antebellum state (Which mean before the war) which neither side did anything to others. and thus, a status quo.

And if I were you, I would actually not say that, because to these Chinese member, you are not one of them if you disagree with them hehe

 

[Pangu]

Author
Bevin Alexander
bevinalexander.com
Bevin Alexander is an American military historian and author. He served as an officer during the Korean War as part of the 5th Historical Detachment. His book Korea: The First War We Lost was largely influenced by his experiences during the war.Wikipedia
Born: United States of America


Praise for Korea: The First War We Lost
"This.fast-moving study is the first to be written by a professional army historian.superb.capably challenges many of the traditional interpretations." -Library Journal

"The best overview of the Korean conflict since Fehrenbach's This Kind of War...a balanced, perceptive accounting..." -Kirkus Review "A desirable acquisition for most military collections." -ALA Booklist

"Bevin Alexander...argues in this well-researched and readable book that the United States fought two wars in Korea, winning one against North Korea and losing the other to Communist China." -The New York Times


Quote from the book
"Great efforts to conquer North Korea ended in failure."

“The United States spends nearly two decades after signing the armistice in deep animosity to Red China. The conflict ends only in February 1972 when Richard Nixon goes to China and reaches a settlement.”


Something hardly talked about in West Media

"The Battle of Triangle Hill (上甘岭战役) was the biggest and bloodiest contest of 1952.[13] After 42 days of heavy fighting, the Eighth Army had failed to gain the two hill masses that were its original goal."

"After suffering over 4,000 casualties in ten days, the failure of the last attack ended the 45th Division's role as the only combatant on the Chinese side.[58]"

"Although the Chinese had suffered 11,500 casualties with many units decimated during the battle, its ability to sustain such losses had slowly exhausted the US Eighth Army over two months of attrition.Meanwhile, the high UN casualties forced Clark to suspend any upcoming offensive operations involving more than one battalion, effectively preventing any major UN offensives for the rest of the war.[89][90] Clark and US President Harry S. Truman later confided that the battle was a serious blow to the UN morale."

"Despite its impact and scale, the Battle of Triangle Hill is one of the least known episodes of the Korean War within the Western media.[87]"
source: Battle of Triangle Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The battle for Hill 598 in the Triangle Hill area was as severe. The UNC was defeated and lost 9,000 casualties in 42 days."

"The last two months of the war was one of its most bloody periods. It cost 53,000 UN and 105,000 communist casualties, the majority inflicted by artillery. In this same period over 700,000 communist artillery rounds hit UNC positions and 4,900,000 UNC artillery rounds were fired in response."
source: Trench warfare | Stalemate, the War in 1952–1953 | Australia's involvement in the Korean War

Nice book, will try to find one & read it. This reminds me of what a US commander said "Retreat, hell! We're not retreating, we're just advancing in a different direction."

 

[Desertfalcon]

Gee, my father and uncle fought in the Korean War. I remember them having a very different take on it's outcome.

South Korea is today, a thriving, prosperous democracy. Some "defeat".

Beautiful Seoul.

 

[Abacin]

Had we have the firepower of today, that war would not end in an armistice.

Why? We do not want to create another Vietnam. Korea and Vietnam have similar mentality. South Korea's relation to China is the best because it is pro-business and its nationalism is suppressed by United States.

United States always wants to have a test in the unknown territory. It was hit hard in Korea to test the power of China. Then it can sit down to negotiate with you.

Similarly in SCS, China should keep tough stance. When it feels hard to press China, it will come to talk about interest exchange. United States behaves like a greed businessman. It always wants to have interests as big as possible, but it can go with small interests if it has to.

 

[Tiqiu]

Nice book, will try to find one & read it. This reminds me of what a US commander said "Retreat, hell! We're not retreating, we're just advancing in a different direction."

I am looking to buy his book too. I'd like to know the words of the American side as well, especially from the historical detachment commander of the US Army sent to Kora to collect historical materials devoted to the operations during the war.

These historical detachments photos are from the personal collection of Bevin Alexander, who commanded the 5th Historical Detachment in the Korean War 1951-52.
U.S. Army Historical Detachments Photos

Historical Detachment commanders Captain Pierce W. Briscoe and Lieutenant Bevin Alexander beside the moat surrounding the Emperor’s palace in Tokyo in May 1951. In the background is the Dai Ichi building, headquarters of the Far East Command.

Historical Detachment commanders (from left) Pierce W. Briscoe, William J. Fox, and Bevin Alexander, with driver Private Donald L. Ruby and clerk Corporal Harry L. Knapp at Eighth Army Rear in Taegu as they are about to leave for the front in early June 1951.

Lieutenant Bevin Alexander beside an 8-inch howitzer on the front in First (or I) Corps western front April 1952.

 

[Nan Yang]

Gee, my father and uncle fought in the Korean War. I remember them having a very different take on it's outcome.

South Korea is today, a thriving, prosperous democracy. Some "defeat".

Beautiful Seoul.

South Korean is what it is today because of the South Koreans. They rebel and overthrow the dictator Park which was put In power by United States in which the South Koreans had no say.

Similarly North Koreans is what It is today because they did not rise up.

Ancient Chinese proverb. The ocean will float or sink a boat.

Nothing to do with United States or China.

 

[gambit]

Gee, my father and uncle fought in the Korean War. I remember them having a very different take on it's outcome.

South Korea is today, a thriving, prosperous democracy. Some "defeat".

Beautiful Seoul.

We can only wonder if the Party will allow such public criticisms, the same type that the Chinese members here takes with glee when it is about the US.

South Korean is what it is today because of the South Koreans. They rebel and overthrow the dictator Park which was put In power by United States in which the South Koreans had no say.

Similarly North Koreans is what It is today because they did not rise up.

Ancient Chinese proverb. The ocean will float or sink a boat.

Nothing to do with United States or China.

The two Koreas are products of conflicting ideologies with their respective agents and sponsorship. As such, how they turned out is both a reflection of the native peoples AND their sponsors. Like it or not, it does have a lot to do with the US, China, and the now defunct Soviet Union.

 

[Desertfalcon]

South Korean is what it is today because of the South Koreans. They rebel and overthrow the dictator Park which was put In power by United States in which the South Koreans had no say.

Actually, South Korea is what it is today because of Gen. Park Chung-hee.

S. Korean economic miracle looks ahead to next 40 years | Shanghai Daily

South Korea miracle sets shining example | The National

 

[Tiqiu]

Gee, my father and uncle fought in the Korean War. I remember them having a very different take on it's outcome.

South Korea is today, a thriving, prosperous democracy. Some "defeat".

Beautiful Seoul.

hehe, you still can't win this war

Beautiful Shanghai

Beautiful Beijing

Beautiful Shenzhen

Beautiful Guangzhou

Beautiful Chongqing

Beautiful Xiamen