Korea: The First War We Lost

[xunzi]

Korea war was winnable, but the removal of MacArthur and not wanting to sacrafice young mens lives was the reason we lost.

we could have had a 10 to 1 kill ratio against the communist. but that would still mean even if we killed 1,000,000 we would still suffer 100,000 Americans deaths,. The commie leadership just didn't care about their soldiers lives. just throw them in the meat grinder you got 50,000,000 more in reserve.

McArthur was a dumb general in that war. He believes in his own "hype" of WWII and miscalculated our involvement. Had he listen he could have defeat the Kim regime without getting his force across the Yalu River. And today everyone would be happy to see a SK-govt run country with no US force near our border, win-win, for all.

 

[Dungeness]

You're right. I also hate to play the "What if" game. But it is definitely something that sour my mouth when I think of the uncles fighting enemy without standard support. Historically, foreign wars were always brought upon our door steps. We never instigate those wars. It was brought upon us and we took that challenges.

It hurts to think those young PVA soldiers had to fight with well equipped enemy with so little they had. Hundred upon hundred of them were frozen to their death in ambush operations. For their sacrifice, PLA established a war record that generation after generation of Chinese can be proud of.

 

[xunzi]

It hurts to think those young PVA soldiers had to fight with well equipped enemy with so little they had. Hundred upon hundred of them were frozen to their death in ambush operations. For their sacrifice, PLA established a war record that generation after generation of Chinese can be proud of.

Very brave Uncles! But realistically, we fought that war for ourselves, rather than for Kim regime. That is the one mistake our enemy made, assuming we fought that war on behave of North Korea. That was never the case. We fought to preserve our national security. We would have do it again 9/10 if history repeats.

 

[Dungeness]

yesteryear

hmm....

It is a global village my friend. China has turned itself into the biggest market for many western luxury products, but if you guys think this trend will inevitably turn China into an US style democracy, think again.

CNN had a news piece a few days ago, and it says the median family income in the US hasn't changed in the past 20 years. Taiwan is the first US style democracy in Chinese world, and its income level hasn't changed since 1998, and new university graduates are stuck in NT$ 22K per month, which is not really much better than that in China. In the same span of time, regular Chinese folks have seen their income increased by 5-10 folds. So Chinese are going to ask what the hell the democracy will do for me, or just for the sake of it?

Now US has an anti-establishment politically incorrect presidential candidate running surprisingly strong, people in China are thinking even Americans are not very impressed with their own system, so why we need to turn ourselves upside down with the risk running into long term chaos like many around the world?

As old saying goes, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[Tiqiu]

Every time hearing this song, the pride crawled up swallowing me like those tears. No matter what others had said, this war earned the respect for a one-year-old young state of an old nation against all odds. It is this respect that gives the Chinese people confidence and inspiration to overcome what ever difficulties laid ahead.

"保和平为祖国就是保家乡-Protecting the peace for the motherland is protecting our home".

 

[jhungary]

Korea war was winnable, but the removal of MacArthur and not wanting to sacrafice young mens lives was the reason we lost.

we could have had a 10 to 1 kill ratio against the communist. but that would still mean even if we killed 1,000,000 we would still suffer 100,000 Americans deaths,. The commie leadership just didn't care about their soldiers lives. just throw them in the meat grinder you got 50,000,000 more in reserve.

The war itself is winnable, but would never be able to achieve the way they fought.

It's an interesting facts that the UN first contemplated to intervene on behalf of the south, their primary objective is that to resist the Northern invasion, meaning, their objective is simply keep the south alive. But not enough to try and roll back the North.

Problem is, the whole task force for Korea is about 300,000, and the bulk of fighting is basically depending on the South Korean (which totalling about 600,000) the 300,000 troop is basically would just be enough for stabilisation of the South, not for the whole peninsular.

The dependent of South Korean troop (which basically raised in 1950) was a mistake. Had UN have in mind to get the whole Korea. They should rely on their own force and use the South Korean to stabilize South Korea while the UN Troop headed north. In all, the UN should at least double their manpower to 600,000 in order to take the North Step by Step.

I do believe they (the UN) fought in Korea not to unify them, but to keep the status quo. In fact, only one man (maybe 2) ever envisioned a unified Korea for personal glory. That's Macarthur Himself. And also, do bear in mind, by sacking MacArthur, Truman actually did committed political suicide.

 

[Beast]

China with booming movie industry shall make a great war movie about PVA victory at battle of triangle in 1953 and let the world know the truth of it rather than feed by western rubbish.

 

[Cossack25A1]

The Philippines back then sent the PEFTOK as part of the UN Forces to aid SK, and to prevent the Korean peninsula becoming red... and this was during the time the PH was still rebuilding itself from the damage done by Imperial Japan back in WW2.

Looking today, the primary objective of the UN was achieved - that South Korea will continue to exist.

It makes me wonder, why did we sent the PEFTOK in the first place? At that time, we have a communist insurgency and we were still rebuilding...

 

[3Kingdoms]

It makes me wonder, why did we sent the PEFTOK in the first place? At that time, we have a communist insurgency and we were still rebuilding...

Because post WW2, US controlled the world's oil supply and due to the marshal plan (OEEC later OECD) influenced so called developed countries economies and market access for developing countries. Every nation wanting to develop post war was under US influence and Hegemony. There was only two sphere's of influence, each country made their choice, regardless of countries political ideological governance it's success lay critical, to which sphere chosen.
Put into context the US economy was larger than 6 great powers GB, France, Germany, Italy, Soviet Union and Japan combined!

Because China had limited air support and having to build airstrips in freezing weather, losing vital supply lines is why China lost the Southern front; An American perspective being - they had air superiority and UN air forces bombed enemy supply lines.
Mao wanted Soviet air support, Stalin advised building airstrips for Soviet air force. Under freezing conditions and constant bombing the CPV forces were able to build 4 airstrips at Sunan, Sunchon, Namyonni, Yongyu and two more built by North Koreans in PyongYang.
CPV forces sometimes fought with no air cover! Most of CPV's anti-aircraft guns and Soviet/Chinese troops protected these strips leaving vital supply lines unable to protect itself from UN bombers.
With the front moved to the South, CPV met motorized troops which they could not flank due to UN air bombardment.
Mao accused Stalin of withholding vital air support and armored units. Post Korean war, China would never want to allow itself to depend on the Soviets hence the Sino-Soviet split, China also found itself in a $650 million war debt to the Soviets.

Peng 'Short Attack' Dehuai asked for air support for the Chinese war plan before and during the war; even with enemy having air superiority he led CPV troops to force the world's only superpower to retreat. A shame what happened to this dude.

 

[C130]

McArthur was a dumb general in that war. He believes in his own "hype" of WWII and miscalculated our involvement. Had he listen he could have defeat the Kim regime without getting his force across the Yalu River. And today everyone would be happy to see a SK-govt run country with no US force near our border, win-win, for all.

China was going to get involved no matter what.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Not yet! Instead you adopted German-Jewish invented Marxism.



No, you adopted, (until recently.), Western Socialist atheism. Although Christianity is growing at a very rapid rate in China.

http://www.cfr.org/china/christianity-china/p36503



Redundant, covered in Question #1. Again, Western invented Marxism.



I never claimed it was complete, only that China clearly has adopted Western capitalist models. I don't care what the Communist Party called it, EVERYONE knows it involved all the classic market formulas of competition, privatisation, profit incentive, private property encouragement, labour competition, massive foreign investment, creating stock exchanges, etc., etc. And the State owning particular companies does not mean that they are not still broadly "capitalist". Western European Social and Christian Democracy are classic examples. Even China's state owned industries have massively contracted out manufacturing and privatized elements within it.



No, nor did I ever. It's always existed but the economy that China's economy is an integral part of today and the economic reforms she enacted to integrate into that economy, (which she was NOT part of until the economic reforms started by Deng Xiaoping.), is most certainly Western in it's genesis, mixed with some socialism and all.

Now I know you may want to say, "But OUR capitalism is a special Chinese version/invention!" Which I will answer by saying, sure; just as the Japanese have their "version" and the Scandinavians, their "version, and we Americans our "version" of capitalism, but market capitalism, it still most certainly is. Like it or not, modern China has adopted Western models from her gleaming skyscraper cities to her Starbucks coffee franchises to her skateboarding teens to her rapidly expanding consumer culture.

Oh yeah, no evil Western influence in China alright!

Capitalism is not a Western invention. In fact, capitalism has been around for as long as man has existed.

Are you saying entrepreneurs have never formed private businesses at any time in human history prior to the West?

Are you saying merchants have never sold private goods based on supply and demand?

Let me provide a basic example:

1. A caveman that is able to fashion a spear with a stone spear tip and a wooden stick just created private property.
2. The caveman uses his private spear to hunt wild game.
3. Any meat and animal skins he is able to accumulate from hunting is more private property.
4. The caveman has the option of bartering his items for other goods, preferably at a profit.

I just described capitalism enriching a caveman. But was it the economic system that made the caveman rich, or the spear?

 

[Desertfalcon]

Capitalism is not a Western invention. In fact, capitalism has been around for as long as man has existed.

Are you saying entrepreneurs have never formed private businesses at any time in human history prior to the West?

Are you saying merchants have never sold private goods based on supply and demand?

You're just re-arguing the same questions with me that I already answered right here...

Korea: The First War We Lost | Page 2

 

[Dungeness]

. Like it or not, modern China has adopted Western models from her gleaming skyscraper cities to her Starbucks coffee franchises to her skateboarding teens to her rapidly expanding consumer culture.

Your pictures make me proud of the tremendous progress China has made since Deng Xiaoping and the opening to the West! And just like South Korea, one day, the Chinese people will insist on democracy to go along with their growing prosperity.

If you believe these "western Influence" will automatically translate into China's inevitable transition to "democracy", you may as well believe America will become a commie state because every American is eating Chinese food.

Here is a good example of what "western Influence" is turned into:

 

[Desertfalcon]

If you believe these "western Influence" will automatically translate into China's inevitable transition to "democracy", you may as well believe America will become a commie state because every American is eating Chinese food.

If it were during the time of Mao and Americans were adopting Chinese communist culture and economic models; dismantling private property, dismantling stock exchanges, dismantling labour competition, profit incentives, shutting out foreign investment, etc., then you would be right. Hence, my point about China that goes far beyond "drinking coffee", (which would be your erroneous analogy), to the embrace of the Western equivalents to the communist principles, i.e., the opposite of what I listed here, that China most certainly has adopted.

 

[Dungeness]

If it were during the time of Mao and Americans were adopting Chinese communist culture and economic models; dismantling private property, dismantling stock exchanges, dismantling labour competition, profit incentives, shutting out foreign investment, etc., then you would be right. Hence, my point about China that goes far beyond "drinking coffee", (which would be your erroneous analogy), to the embrace of the Western equivalents to the communist principles, i.e., the opposite of what I listed here, that China most certainly has adopted.

Read Post #34, you may get some idea why the US style democracy is not that appearing to regular Chinese folks anymore.