Know Thy Enemy: Build up defense to thwart US provocation

[yusheng]

so when the time the war between china and japan (USA) break, you should think it it the war to liberate japan from usa.

how do you think, yesterday, chinese 4 warship sailed across the Tsugaru strait? provocative?
pictures are taken by japan

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Taishang, in fact I admit I do share some similar views with Nihonjin1051 as regard to East Asia.

East Asian Nations in a UNION will be a nightmare for USA and her hegemonic design for the region.

I am talking about China PRC, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan RoC, Hong Kong SAR off course. And it is relatively easy compared for these named states as compare with the others nations in the region e.g. Philippines, India, etc because these nations have historical, cultural & blood ties that is likely to bind them together. Example: Confucianism and even their spoken dialects or language. In linguistics, there are many similar sounding words in Shandong, Hakka, Japanese languages. LIkewise it is the same between Korean language and the other dialects from China. Singapore should be allow to join as she shared many things in common but due to her proximity it may be a problem on her relationship with the two immediate neighbors.

Before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, a US General was interviewed as to why USA did not assisted the KMT in China in fighting the Japanese. His reply was: "Why should we interfere? It is Chinese killing Chinese." Meaning to the American General, he also regarded the Japanese as Chinese and it was a case of Chinese killing other Chinese. Although many rightist Japanese may disagreed.

EAST ASIAN IN UNION should learned from the European Union which has many advantages.

1. It will immediately remove suspicion and all dispute can be amicably resolved among themselves with NO OUTSIDER with ulterior motives. The security concerns of these nations will NO LONGER be an issue and hence USA Military Force will have NO EXCUSE to remain inside East Asia or hold the provocative war exercises together triggering the responses from the adversaries. Why do South Korea need THAAD when North Korea only need SRBM to hit her?

2. A trimmer Military Forces that will cooperate and come to each other assistance if they are attacked.

3. East Asia by itself is already an ECONOMIC BLOC with high skill and technological MANUFACTURING capabilities with a very high standard of living. In fact the region will be self sufficient and self sustaining. Japan will NO LONGER have to depend on USA to market her good or defense.

(TPPA has nearly 7,000 pages. Tell me, how many pages is actually devoted to REAL TRADE. USA has been trying to apply the much controversial ISDS clause in all the previous Trade Agreement with other nations and WTO without any success and now it has make it mandatory in the TPPA for the other participating nation. When Philippines opts out, they replace her with Vietnam. Can you see the point here?)

3. Citizens of these nations can travel within this East Asian Union freely without a visa and they can even have a common currency like the Euro.

East Asia will be a place of harmony and peace.

But this idea like the "ONE BELT, ONE ROAD" strike fear into USA.

The moment USD$ cease to be the World Reserve Currency, USA's days as a World SUPERPOWER is over.

Back in 18th Century China and India were considered quite industrialized by the standard in those days. I will write about India as they were under the British Raj whereas China was still quite independent then ...

India produced and exports a significant amount of textiles but immediately after they were colonized by the British, under the new trade rule, Indian textiles were not allowed to be exported to Britain whereas British textiles can entered India freely and TAX-FREE.

In fact 45% of British Textiles were send to India. That was the British Trade Rules then and India was forced to deindustrialize and India has to pay for British expatriates, maintainance of British Military, etc.

IMO TPPA is the neo-century USA trade colonialism.

 

[Jlaw]

What Americans are doing today is just the repetition of the Huns did during Han dynasty : violate our boundary and pillage and think they can get away with impunity. Any Chinese know Han vs Hun history will have a good understanding on how we should deal with Americans: be patient and fight when we're ready, we can wait 100 years if needed.

You assume the Americans will give you 100 years to build up while they stay stagnant?

Japan is not a 'friend' of America, we cooperate on partnerships on on US-centric defense platforms that have been coaxed on Japan through post-war articulations that practically strangled Japanese nationalism and perpetuated weakling administrations. Japan 'hosts' close to 53,000 American soldiers not because it had a choice; those soldiers forward deployed in Japan were but a fraction of the original occupying forces that were in Japan immediately after the surrender in 1945. I think you have to understand that Japan really doesn't have a choice in various security policies --- you have to understand behind the scenes cajoling and arm twisting the Washington state actors have on Japanese politicians.

.

May or may not be friend of the US, but the difference is the US doesn't see Japan challenging their hegemonic status now. Should that ever happen you will get the same treatment.

 

[nang2]

Chinese strategic tradition: you fight in your way, I fight in mine.

 

[Aepsilons]

so when the time the war between china and japan (USA) break, you should think it it the war to liberate japan from usa.

how do you think, yesterday, chinese 4 warship sailed across the Tsugaru strait? provocative?
pictures are taken by japan

The Tsugaru Strait is a narrow choke point between the Sea of Japan and the Pacific Ocean; it is roughly eight nautical miles wide at its narrowest point, between the islands of Hokkaido to the north and Honshu to the south. It is one of only five straits among its many islands that Japan recognizes as international straits under the terms of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) Part III, “Straits Used for International Navigation.”

Since Japan is a party to UNCLOS, this means that Japan must allow the right of transit passage through its straits to all vessels in their normal mode of operation, including the warships of other states, even states such as China, with which its military and political relations can at times be tense. Under transit passage rules, even though the waters of a strait are within the territorial sea, submarines may pass through the strait submerged and aircraft may overfly the strait without coastal-state permission. In other parts of a coastal state’s territorial seas, the more restrictive rules of innocent passage apply.

In regards to the picture you posted, you are referring to an incident in 2008 wherein four vessels of the PLAN , specifically a Sovremennyy class destroyer, a supply ship and two Jiangkai class frigates , passed through the Tsugaru Straits en route to the Pacific Ocean. The four vessels of the PLAN , when entering Japanese territorial waters, had been hailed by the JMSDF's Northern Fleet vessels, and given clearance, as permitted by international law. You must understand that these kinds of cooperation between the JMSDF and the PLAN happen all the time; either it be JMSDF ships sailing through the East Sea, the South China Sea, or through the Sea of Okhotsk in the North.

Japan and China have a rather mature and professional naval institution(s) that regularly make contact on a daily basis and handle each other without undue acridity, but with utmost amicability.

May or may not be friend of the US, but the difference is the US doesn't see Japan challenging their hegemonic status now. Should that ever happen you will get the same treatment.

Yes, i suppose you have a point there.

 

[New]

What Americans are doing today is just the repetition of the Huns did during Han dynasty : violate our boundary and pillage and think they can get away with impunity. Any Chinese know Han vs Hun history will have a good understanding on how we should deal with Americans: be patient and fight when we're ready, we can wait 100 years if needed.

That's a mindset to be appreciated, as it comes from a millenniums old, matured civilization.
Xiaoping said it all:
隐藏的亮度韬光养晦

 

[Aepsilons]

I am talking about China PRC, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan RoC, Hong Kong SAR off course.

This list is incomplete. Greater East Asia will include:

• China (+ Taiwan, Hong Kong Sar, Macao Sar)
• Japan
• Korea (Unified South & North Korea)
• Mongolia
• + Singapore (Singapore will be integrated as well)
• +/- Viet Nam

these nations have historical, cultural & blood ties that is likely to bind them together. Example: Confucianism and even their spoken dialects or language. In linguistics, there are many similar sounding words in Shandong, Hakka, Japanese languages. LIkewise it is the same between Korean language and the other dialects from China. Singapore should be allow to join as she shared many things in common but due to her proximity it may be a problem on her relationship with the two immediate neighbors.

Singapore will be an integral, strategic member of Greater East Asia. Singapore has always been a vital point for Greater East Asia.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

You assume the Americans will give you 100 years to build up while they stay stagnant?.

What I tried to say is don't do stupid thing when we're still weak, Han emperiors already shown us a good guidance on how to deal with tough adversary such the Hun, they waited over 100 years until Han Wu Di time when his army was strong to decisively engage the Hun once for all. Sure Americans will not sit idle but we need to buy time to fully know how to deal with American's threat...I think that what Chinese leaders are doing , for over 30 years...Americans had none stop with the military, diplomatic and commercial provocations but our leaders knew how to hold their temper and keep cool.

30 year passed we're now 2nd economic power and defense spending which it's not bad at all as achievement but we need to buy more time for Chinese army to well equipped and will organized...once we reach the parity with Americans, everything will become obvious.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Taishang, in fact I admit I do share some similar views with Nihonjin1051 as regard to East Asia.

East Asian Nations in a UNION will be a nightmare for USA and her hegemonic design for the region.

I am talking about China PRC, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan RoC, Hong Kong SAR off course. And it is relatively easy compared for these named states as compare with the others nations in the region e.g. Philippines, India, etc because these nations have historical, cultural & blood ties that is likely to bind them together. Example: Confucianism and even their spoken dialects or language. In linguistics, there are many similar sounding words in Shandong, Hakka, Japanese languages. LIkewise it is the same between Korean language and the other dialects from China. Singapore should be allow to join as she shared many things in common but due to her proximity it may be a problem on her relationship with the two immediate neighbors.

Before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, a US General was interviewed as to why USA did not assisted the KMT in China in fighting the Japanese. His reply was: "Why should we interfere? It is Chinese killing Chinese." Meaning to the American General, he also regarded the Japanese as Chinese and it was a case of Chinese killing other Chinese. Although many rightist Japanese may disagreed.

EAST ASIAN IN UNION should learned from the European Union which has many advantages.

1. It will immediately remove suspicion and all dispute can be amicably resolved among themselves with NO OUTSIDER with ulterior motives. The security concerns of these nations will NO LONGER be an issue and hence USA Military Force will have NO EXCUSE to remain inside East Asia or hold the provocative war exercises together triggering the responses from the adversaries. Why do South Korea need THAAD when North Korea only need SRBM to hit her?

2. A trimmer Military Forces that will cooperate and come to each other assistance if they are attacked.

3. East Asia by itself is already an ECONOMIC BLOC with high skill and technological MANUFACTURING capabilities with a very high standard of living. In fact the region will be self sufficient and self sustaining. Japan will NO LONGER have to depend on USA to market her good or defense.

(TPPA has nearly 7,000 pages. Tell me, how many pages is actually devoted to REAL TRADE. USA has been trying to apply the much controversial ISDS clause in all the previous Trade Agreement with other nations and WTO without any success and now it has make it mandatory in the TPPA for the other participating nation. When Philippines opts out, they replace her with Vietnam. Can you see the point here?)

3. Citizens of these nations can travel within this East Asian Union freely without a visa and they can even have a common currency like the Euro.

East Asia will be a place of harmony and peace.

But this idea like the "ONE BELT, ONE ROAD" strike fear into USA.

The moment USD$ cease to be the World Reserve Currency, USA's days as a World SUPERPOWER is over.

Back in 18th Century China and India were considered quite industrialized by the standard in those days. I will write about India as they were under the British Raj whereas China was still quite independent then ...

India produced and exports a significant amount of textiles but immediately after they were colonized by the British, under the new trade rule, Indian textiles were not allowed to be exported to Britain whereas British textiles can entered India freely and TAX-FREE.

In fact 45% of British Textiles were send to India. That was the British Trade Rules then and India was forced to deindustrialize and India has to pay for British expatriates, maintainance of British Military, etc.

IMO TPPA is the neo-century USA trade colonialism.

East Asian nation Union will only exist when we collectively facing a similar threat and only if the interests outweigh our difference. If China and Japan abandon the pass hatred as England, France and Germany did then East Asian Union will be very easy to realize. That is one of the reason that American fear the most, they want to fabricate China's threat and try to make East Asian countries distance themselves away from China.

 

[TaiShang]

It has always amazed me, really, whenever i attend forums relating to work and whenever the issue of Asia comes up, my Western peers always bring up how American will stand by Japan to fend off the threats of Korea, and China and Russia.

Most likely, to rationalize and legitimize their choking presence in Japan (and Korea), they need to make you come to accept that you are indeed under a grave threat, essentially weak and thus in need of help.

US emotionalism coupled with fatalist but simplistic "good" vs. "bad" dualism is the most destructive policy one can engage with, as a matter of fact.

At every possible venue, this sort of characterization must be encountered, my friend, at times, even at the cost of being labeled as a "radical" among academic circles. LOL, I face similar situations at times and it is a tough choice to speak up strongly or simply seek a middle ground. It is always a political decision.

The only reason why America is giving leeway to Japanese constitutional changes because it believes and perceives China as a threat to its domination in the Pacific. Hence it is trying to coax Japan to make constitutional changes to (by the way the one who wrote post war Japanese constitution were the Americans, lol, LOL) be able to put a check to China. So , indirectly , China is actually aiding Japan to gradually free itself of Washingtonian domination. Eventually we would hope to see their removal from Okinawa.

Seems like a gamble in progress. The bets are on Japan's future behavior and the target is China. The way Japan chooses to go is the key here. Ideally, it needs to normalize in terms of its defense structure in parallel to reducing US imprint on the country's national life. For this end, it can use China threat to rationalize the steps (given that it was the US drafting Japan's constitution, hence, Japan needs approval from the author to change some content) and at the same time give China the required message through not so public channels of Tokyo's long term intention.

It is a delicate game, to be sure, that both Japan and China may fall into some traps any time.

 

[dichoi]

in cold war, it is master of you.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

This list is incomplete. Greater East Asia will include:

• China (+ Taiwan, Hong Kong Sar, Macao Sar)
• Japan
• Korea (Unified South & North Korea)
• Mongolia
• + Singapore (Singapore will be integrated as well)
• +/- Viet Nam

Singapore will be an integral, strategic member of Greater East Asia. Singapore has always been a vital point for Greater East Asia.

But it will be easier if it gets started with just these three nations initially - China, Japan & South Korea as they are all mature and very strong economies.

The possibility is endless and eventually it may lead to the eventual goal, a UNITED ASIA but it won't be easy as all these would make USA and the North very insecure.

From past histories, we know an insecure USA is dangerous as she will create trouble everywhere.

WE won't be surprised if one scandals after another will soon appeared in these states apart from China. USA will made it her first priority to sabotage this relationship unless she gets to control it e.g. in the IMF, only USA is accorded the VETO power. That is why Obama viewed China's AIIB as a threat and what Obama means when he says he will NOT allow China to make the trade rules. Ironically all the trade rules in the WTO is certainly NOT made by China. So what is Obama talking about? The future, off course. Obama has almost conceded that China will be the world BIGGEST economy and hence is setting all the trade rules that favour USA to safeguard her own interest.

As I have always says and proven by others - USA is a self interest nation and mainly a trade protectionist state.

The TPPA which was negotiate in secret is foremost the instrument of the hegemonic USA and that is why President "Read my lip" Obama WARNED the USA Senate not to delay it. Why? Because it was documented to does not serve the INTEREST of the American Taxpayers or the citizens of those participant states.

As posted by Senheiser

https://defence.pk/threads/the-coun...-might-surprise-you-and-it-isnt-china.420485/

 

[xunzi]

Thank You, sadly, the liberation of Japan from American Interventionism lies on China's ascendancy in the region.

So long as America continues to check China, then the Eagle's nest in Japan and Korea will remain defended. It will require a region-specific conversation of cooperation to undermine the hegemonic American interests in Greater East Asia.

It will take time, and I hope China and her Leadership remain sensitive to the position of her East Asian fraternal civilization peers. In the end, and in the long term future, domination of East Asia will require the cohesion of China, Korea and Japan.

Divided we are contained, united, nothing can stop us.

If you can execute the perfect plan to get rid of the US troops and their infiltration in Japan govt, then all possibility for a Greater East Asia is doable. As I said before, the biggest steps you should take is to gain an independent thought and shall not fear of being abandon. Be self-sufficient in military and not dependent on US system. For our part, we will continue to mature our weapon system and head toward a fully developed status. Only until then, we can become an attractive option for freedom of people movement across Korea, Japan, and China. Think of it like a Schengen Agreement.

To execute this grand plan, all parties have to work diligently and doing their part.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

If you can execute the perfect plan to get rid of the US troops and their infiltration in Japan govt, then all possibility for a Greater East Asia is doable. As I said before, the biggest steps you should take is to gain an independent thought and shall not fear of being abandon. Be self-sufficient in military and not dependent on US system. For our part, we will continue to mature our weapon system and head toward a fully developed status. Only until then, we can become an attractive option for freedom of people movement across Korea, Japan, and China. Think of it like a Schengen Agreement.

To execute this grand plan, all parties have to work diligently and doing their part.

Yes. Seriously, did China developed those advanced weaponries to deal with Japan or her military backer.

China does not need weapons e.g. 15,000 km DF-41, 2500 km DF-25 or hypersonic HGV WU-14 to deal with Japan. Any short range SRBM e.g. DF-15 will be sufficient to reach ev ery part of Japan.

It is now common knowledge that USA had been supplying downgrade weaponries to all her allies including Japan for ages as deep inside USA still harbor a FEAR of a revived militarized Japan. USA will not hesistate to destroy Japan if she ever threatened her again e.g. the Plaza Accord that force Japan to revalue her yen resulted in Japan dire economic situation today.

The Plaza Accord is a protectionist agreement that contributes to Japan asset price bubble that ended up in a recession. IMO TPPA will be the new century USA protectionist trade agreement that will ended up with none of the participating nations benefitting.

 

[xunzi]

Yes. Seriously, did China developed those advanced weaponries to deal with Japan or her military backer.

China does not need weapons e.g. 15,000 km DF-41, 2500 km DF-25 or hypersonic HGV WU-14 to deal with Japan. Any short range SRBM e.g. DF-15 will be sufficient to reach ev ery part of Japan.

It is now common knowledge that USA had been supplying downgrade weaponries to all her allies including Japan for ages as deep inside USA still harbor a FEAR of a revived militarized Japan. USA will not hesistate to destroy Japan if she ever threatened her again e.g. the Plaza Accord that force Japan to revalue her yen resulted in Japan dire economic situation today.

The Plaza Accord is a protectionist agreement that contributes to Japan asset price bubble that ended up in a recession. IMO TPPA will be the new century USA protectionist trade agreement that will ended up with none of the participating nations benefitting.

Our weapon system is for ensuring peace and stability and shall deter any foreign players from intervening in our destiny. That is the best way to put it.