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Know Thy Enemy: Build up defense to thwart US provocation

China is actually helping US in this front. Other than Vietnam there is no nation in South East Asia that China has historical problems. So it's understandable that China-Vietnam relations has some ups and downs. But what about Philippines? Those guys literally kicked back US out of their country and was very eager to form an allience with China in not so distant past. China could've acted more elegantly to prevent Philippines from going back to lap of the US. Philippines has no technology to extract any resource in that area. Before 2012 they had no intention to invite US either. So resources in Philippines claim and control would most probably stay untapped. Besides there could've been a lot options on the table. I mean China had a lot to offer to Philippines. Philippines could've handed over the islands with some economic beneficiary status. Or the problem could've been solved in a distant future where China has more military options. You win a war before you fight it. That's why you don't enter a war if you can't win it.

What happened between Philippines and China is also very bad influence for other friendly nations like Indonesia and Malaysia. There are very good relations between China and Malaysia and Indonesia. Just like there was a huge possibility for good relations between Philippines and China. I hope those problems will be handled cautiously and without China losing friends in ASEAN.

If we talk about the propagand front. China has still have the upper hand. I mean US killed millions of people in the ME in the last decade. Of course with the brilliant "de-humanization" techniques killing "arabs" or "muslims" in general is justified. Because as we all know muslims are "terrorists" and "savages". However still in many people's eyes in Asia and Europe, US is a very violent nation that caused a lot of destruction on Earth and definitely needs a rival that stops it from doing what it wants to do. China is the best candidate.

My years of reading history has taught me one thing, regardless of what anyone says or want to believe, power forever reigns supreme. Of course, I would get a lot of agreement, but they would still be wrong, because the extent is far more than they can imagine.

Ito Hirobumi in 1885 was greatly underestimated by Li HongZhang, this was a time when Japan was industrializing at a break neck speed. China was unwilling to accept a true friendly gesture at the time, despite the fact it was offered. Why? China didn't recognize Japan's growing power.

By 1929 however, various military defeats, humiliations, and military bases later, China actually had a better relationship with Japan than before even though at this point Japan's intention was as clear as day light.

Implying China is harming the relationship, assumes this relationship was even worth the trouble to begin with. Once China's status is recognized, it hardly matters what we did or is doing, or even will be doing.

Look at Iraq, Afghanistan and US for a recent reference.

Don't agree with that. You have a lot of bottlenecks in such projects. Money is only one variable. More money is not equal to more output. Forming a military industrial complex takes time. You need to have experienced engineers that has prior experiences in such projects. I mean think about it US makes stealth planes since 1980's and the R&D for it has started in 1970's. So there is a 40 years of experience. Hence it's not hard to say that the guy who started to work on stealth plane project in 70's and if that guy is still doing stealth planes today, that guy has 40 years of experience. That guy would probably be in his late 60's or early 70's. Think about how many engineers he trained for that project. Think about his know how. You can't buy trained and experienced technical person with money. You can raise them with time and with throwing a lot of projects in front of them. Money won't be a bottleneck for China, that's why throwing more money to R&D won't particularly be needed.

Money isn't everything, but if you have money, from non-oil/gas based origin, you usually have the other things as well.

If you look at China's space documentary, Chinese engineers in the field are quite young relative to their developed counterparts. China is also just starting out in the field, what you said is true.

However, take into consideration, China is going into this equation knowing the general direction and that it is achievable. That's actually the most important resource, not some stolen blueprint, which the layman thinks is key.

It would take more time than it's worth to judge its trustworthiness, and longer to decipher it. All industry capacity also has to be up to par for it to even have a chance to work.

What the US did is to reduce China's time in figuring out what the future of battlefield needs are and what those capabilities would look like. A much easier task awaits China. Though still extremely difficult by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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whatever Chinese intention when she is build up her military might and of course it is her right to do so, but one thing must be clear that doesn't always translate into the rising of her influences among neighbor in a good way. Some country with bad prejudices against China, will always see the growing military capability of China as a threat, and in Asia Pacific region the one who had bad prejudices against China is not only counted one, there is a lot of them even if they masking a good mama boy face in front of today China.
 
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Dude, what you quote were in 2011 (actually by the end of 2010 to be exact. A strange omission which said literally on your reference itself where you did not carry on with your post.) When My friend salary in 2015.

Or you are saying Chinese Fascist Regime is so cheap that even tho in:

2011-2012, they have about 9.3% GDP Growth
2012-2013 they have about 7.76% GDP Growth
2013-2014 they have about 7.75% GDP growth
2014-2015 they have about 7.3% GDP growth

Or are you saying they don't bother to raise the salary one bit?? So even today, if I were to join the PLA, I still got paid 5400 yuan on average?? WHAT A CHEAP FASCIST....

6,900 RMB average would mean they have a mean raise of 5% from 2011 to 2016. Which is quite normal for governmental job. (By the way, I was aware of your reference, I intentionally left blank when I calculate the average, and you felt for it. LOL you are easy, eh, thank you for helping me set you up)

China Military Online English Edition

 Some media estimated that since 2014 when a substantial salary adjustment took place in China’s armed forces, an army lieutenant’s monthly salary is about 3,000 yuan and that of a lieutenant-colonel is 5,000 to 6,000 yuan.

 "In China, this salary level is similar to that of civil servants and perhaps slightly higher," said Zhang Junshe, researcher at the Naval Military Academic Research Institute.

  China's military salary structure is similar to other countries’. In terms of salary level, China’s level is comparatively low. "For example, a U.S. colonel who has served in the military for 30 years will have a monthly salary of $10,000. However, the salary of a Chinese who has served in the military for 30 years is just 8,000 or 9,000 yuan,” said Zhang.

Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Military Personnel $153.531 billion -3.0%

US spends almost entire budget of Chinese military for military personnel salaries.

Do you really want to continue to make yourself ashamed?
 
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You know the outcome of keep insult moderator? all my posts to your replied also got deleted, should I also complain??? @Nihonjin1051 is patriot, he's not pro-China, he wants the best for Japan within Asia and not US lap dog.
China Military Online English Edition

 Some media estimated that since 2014 when a substantial salary adjustment took place in China’s armed forces, an army lieutenant’s monthly salary is about 3,000 yuan and that of a lieutenant-colonel is 5,000 to 6,000 yuan.

 "In China, this salary level is similar to that of civil servants and perhaps slightly higher," said Zhang Junshe, researcher at the Naval Military Academic Research Institute.

  China's military salary structure is similar to other countries’. In terms of salary level, China’s level is comparatively low. "For example, a U.S. colonel who has served in the military for 30 years will have a monthly salary of $10,000. However, the salary of a Chinese who has served in the military for 30 years is just 8,000 or 9,000 yuan,” said Zhang.

Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Military Personnel $153.531 billion -3.0%

US spends almost entire budget of Chinese military for military personnel salaries.

Do you really want to continue to make yourself ashamed?

look like you are the one that should feel ashamed...

First, you took an official news paper which said in 2011, the average salary for cadre is 5300 RMB, and then you took a "BLOG" post and negate EVERYTHING you said and obviously did not read the blog post thoroughly .

LOL. And then there are the 2 pays system, all PLA soldier pays a basic rate AND a subsidery rate, something also done by the Australian. It was so mentioned in both your previous China daily article, and the blog, which the (3000RMB pays) quote you just said were the basic salary, NOT THE TOTAL SALARY, even on the blog post, it clearly says

The salaries of military officers and civilian cadres include basic salary, job (professional) level salary, rank (level) salary, salary of military service age, military occupation allowance, work allowance, and living allowance and other subsidies

China Military Online English Edition

and also this, on SCMP

PLA should pay officers more in bid to promote military professionalism, article says | South China Morning Post

A colonel based in Shanghai, who declined to be named, told the South China Morning Post his basic salary was nearly 8,000 yuan (HK$10,100) per month, slightly higher than civil servants of the same rank.

“But civil officials can receive various [forms of] compensation besides their basic salaries. In total, our payment is definitely much lower,” he said.

Another interesting factor is that the PLA not just pay the person, but also their spouse and/or immediate family member. Something not done with US military at all.

And then you try to use how much Chinese Military Budget to compare with the US budget, dude, did you forgot about the living standard and the GDP per capita difference? Being pays $2000 a months in the US Is not better off than being pay $1000 a month in China.

And finally, I never said China overpays their military, I said, China Is still better off than paying in the US, I know first hand how much US paying its soldier, both in War or at Peace time, and you obviously have no idea how PLA work and US Military work.

If you asked me, I would have said the Military should have paid 110% of whatever GDP per capita. However, you are saying as if US pays astronomical amounts to its military because they have a 587 billions budget is, simply wrong. Even China pays is better.
 
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He is probably looking for a job in China now :) you can see all his post are now pro-China :)

Actually, No. I am neither pro US nor pro China, but am pro Japan. A Japan that is independent of foreign interventionalism, secondly, I am (and have always been) a pro East Asian Unificationist. In fact , I have in my many posts in this forum, have identified that the barrier to Japanese Rise has always been the United States. Ultimately, we Japanese patriots understand the insidious apperture of American (Washington) State Actors have had in Tokyo throughout the years , first it was the guise of Soviet Threat, now, recently the threat of China to bolster and legitimize continued US presence in the Japanese Fatherland. On a much inferior significance, North Korea is sometimes labeled as the threat (and thus is argued as the reason why the US is to remain in Japan and Korea), we all know the reality , my friend. The problem, in the end, is not just the United States ' strategic and research wings that operate malevolently in Japan in the guise of regional security, but also the collaboration of Japanese lawmakers that have been under the influence of America.

My friend, I have deep respect for the United States , its contribution to democracy, and , i suppose in other regards, to the principles of representative government. Despite these ideological notions as well as some valuable social norms in American society, what I don't particular am fond of is the American foreign policy mandate of intervention, either openly or conspiratorially. This , ultimately, if you have ever reviewed political science and nation state systematization , is actually inhibitive of the natural or historical aspect.

In all fairness, did you actually think China and Japan enjoyed a amicable relationship?

Set aside all the historical irking, let's talk about this geopolitically happening today.

Japan support of Taiwan on Chinese-Taiwan issue.
Japan-US Mutual Defence Pact is an Threat to China
Japan Nationalize of Senkaku Island
Japan-Chinese economic competition.
Japanese Support of Own Nationalism.

Almost all of them are solvable when you choose China over Taiwan, disengage the US MDP, return Senkaku to China, it would be harder for Japan to bend down to China in economic front, it is however, doable, but the last bit would mean Japanese give up to be Japanese.

The very good indication between China and Japan relation gone awry is that Japanese, while not in the intensity than in 1938, support of its own Japanese nationalism, the keeping of position of Emperor, the visiting of the shrine, the practice of Bushido, and the Spirit of Yamato, those are all what China look at as a threat. History aside, being Japanese is being part of all that, but being Chinese, they hated all that. So, the bigger question is, would you stop being a Japanese just for the sake of the Great Asian Union? Because I cannot see such thing happen unless Japan drop its nationalism.


The Need of Sino-Japanese Correspondence in the 21st Century: Is there an Empirical Validation ?
de1332d049dbbe16cbfa1d2d10f2e676-jpg.92732


By: @Nihonjin1051, Ph.D.



I. The Historical Link between Japan and China

178f7e8b3c037eab744c3dc118c3b7e3-jpg.92733


The history of Japan and China has is long as well as it is being intertwined through the economic trade, cultural transmission, political and philosophical influence. China has had a direct pivotal role in helping mold and form the early Japanese identity which stems back to the Chinese ancient text known as the Book of Later Han. In this text, Emperor Guangwu of the Han Dynasty provided a golden seal to the early Yamato Clan. In fact this golden seal is referred to In Japan as the King of Na gold seal, and is held in a museum in the Japanese island of Kyushu in commemoration of this ancient political link between both civilizations. During the 7th century AD, the Imperial Japanese Court had initiated what is known as the Taika Reform.

The Taika reform encouraged Japan to build embassies in China as a way to establish proper diplomatic and political rapprochement between the said two entities, and this allowed Japanese students to go study in China. These students that had spent time in China’s Imperial Court and Chinese schools of philosophies allowed them to absorb new information back to Japan. It was through the Taika Reform that Japan brought back teachings of Buddhism, bureaucratic reforms, architectural traits, urban planning traits as well as Imperial court customs – which were then integrated into Japanese culture. One important and lingering Chinese imprint into Japanese society and culture is in the written language; the Japanese Kanji system is based on the Chinese classical characters known as Hanzi. There is , indeed, a cultural and historical commonality.

II. The Dynamic of Japan’s Interaction with East Asia

2d6d0640b67c09b233e50ed4be1e43d7-jpg.92734


“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

-George Orwell
The above aforementioned quote by Orwell takes into consideration how the future is influenced by the past events, and this is a poignant quotation in context of the Japanese and Chinese Equation. The history between Japan and China stretches back over 2 millennia, with formal representation taking place during the beginning of the 8th Century A.D. when Japanese Embassies were created throughout China as well as vice versa.

The marked cross straits interaction between Japan and China was positive with only four militant events; the 12th century war with the Yuan Dynasty and the subsequent attempts of the Mongols to invade Japan, the second was the 16th century Imjin War wherein the forces of Japan under the leadership of Hideyoshi Toyotomi, who was appointed as Kampaku or the Imperial Chancellor and thus the personal hand of the Emperor of Japan. Hideyoshi, who was named Daijo-daijin (Chief Minister) , initiated the unification of Japan and then subsequent mandate to conquer Korea with the goal to acquire the prize of China. The demise of Hideyoshi had led to the collapse of the struggle to conquer Korea , forcing a general retreat of Japanese forces from the Korean peninsula back into Japan proper , and thus would begin a dormant and introverted closed door policy. The 19th century ended with a brutal war between Imperial Japan and Qing Dynasty China known as the 1st Sino-Japanese War, which lasted from 1894 to 1895. The last conflict between China and Japan was the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, which ended in 1945.

The war left deep scars in both China and Japan. The sensitivities of domestic politics in China regarding Japan’s 2014 Collective Defense Principle and re-militarization is historically driven. Japanese should be more considerate of these reactions by the Chinese and approach the issue with an attempt to understand the psychology of the Chinese side and refrain from a defensive posture when reading Chinese media reaction.

III. Approaching China from a Cooperative Position

dd0adb4e35a5e444a85eeca3043fb90a-gif.92735


It is important to focus on the positive developments, particularly when contrasting them with the tensions and the anti-Japanese demonstrations in China during the five years of the Koizumi era and also recently during the beginning of the Administration of Prime Minister Abe. In Japan there is a conviction that China very much needs Japan; be it to protect its foreign image as a peacefully developing country, to maintain its export and FDI-dependent economy, to reduce its energy consumption, to help cope with its environmental problems and that China is open to seeking compromise. Whether or not this is true or not, one thing that Chinese leaders and strategic planners should take into consideration is that Japan has a positive outlook towards China and maintains a policy of cooperation, eager almost, with China.

There are themes that Japan and China can both work on , ranging from Cross Straits Cooperation on Taiwan, addressing the claims in the East China Sea, as well as understanding and working with each other on China’s Ascendancy.

The disputes in the East China Sea are about the sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands (which is known by the Chinese as the Diayutai Islands) and the Exclusive Economic Zone between China and Japan, and the rivaling Air Defense Identification Zones of Japan and China. The solution of the EEZ issue between both countries is closely related to the sovereignty dispute as well as to an EEZ agreement between China and Kore and the ones with Japan and Korea, where there is rivaling claims in the norther part of the East China Sea. According to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continent Shelf, there must be cooperation between the Governments of South Korea, Japan and China to declare the EEZ limits. In regards to the Senkaku Islands, Japan claims that there is no sovereignty dispute because it is in the comfortable position of having de facto control over them, which is refuted by China. Both countries also apply different principles to determine EEZ border between them. It is apparent that these issues are within the forefront of political contention between Tokyo and Beijing.

These issues just discussed have to be put in the context of the growing economic competition and political rivalry of the two countries. The phenomenal growth of China’s economy, which also owes a lot to Japan, had led to increased competition. While trade between the two countries in the 1980s was dominated by China selling natural resources and semi-finished products to Japan, trade is increasingly becoming an exchange of processed and manufactured goods, at an ever-increasing level of sophistication. Although Japan is still an important foreign direct investor in China, since the beginning of the new century, China had started, on a very modest scale, to invest in Japan. This is in order to acquire technology, brands, market access and marketing skills and includes the acquisition of distressed medium-sized Japanese companies. Both Japan and China have cross-straits vested interests within each other, ranging from domestic investment, which is now over $320 Billion.

China’s rise has undoubtedly presented new challenges to Japan and these have been articulated as part of the so called ‘China Threat’ discourse. That China threat debate is a broad term that generally refers to the popular academic discussions of the ways in which China posed potential risks to Japanese economic, security, and political interests. However, the discussion went beyond traditional military threat perceptions based on measurement of intentions and capabilities and encapsulated concerns about new uncertainties posed by China’s rapid development and modernization and how to respond to them.

To address these issues, Japanese leaders are now espousing Sino-Japanese policy consultation and coordination as a way to preserve regional peace and stability, such as in the Korean Peninsula, and as a way to abate any tensions between both countries’ EEZ claims and ADIZ claims. The contention is surmountable. We have to remember that in October 1992, Emperor Akihito of Japan had visited China, suggesting that the mistrust between China and Japan is surmountable and that the legacy of the past can be transcended by the two countries’ common interests. It is also important to recognize the special importance that Japan has attached to its relationship with China, despite the vagaries of politics. This said, development of greater rapprochements between Japan and China in the Taiwan issue, and economic commonalities will benefit both sides. The expected communication between China’s Xi Jinping and Japan’s Shinzo Abe will present opportunities for both sides to address common interests, as well as initiate mechanisms that will allow both Japan and China to find solutions to areas of disagreement.






Works Cited


Cheng, J. (2003). {Chinese-Japanese Relations in the Twenty-First Century}. Journal Of Contemporary Asia,

33(2), 279-282.

Drifte, R. (2009). The Future of the Japanese-Chinese Relationship: The Case for a Grand Political Bargain.

Asia-Pacific Review, 16(2), 55-74. doi:10.1080/13439000903371668

Rose, C. (2010). 'Managing China': risk and risk management in Japan's China policy. Japan Forum, 22(1/2),

149-168. doi:10.1080/09555803.2010.488950

Shuja, S. M. (2000). Tokyo-Beijing relations in the new millennium. Contemporary Review, 277(1618), 257-263.

Yoo, J., Jo, S., & Jung, J. (2014). The Effects Of Television Viewing, Cultural Proximity, And Ethnocentrism

On Country Image. Social Behavior And Personality, 42(1), 89-96.

杉浦//康之. (2009). 中国の「日本中立化」政策と対日情勢認識--日本社会党の訪中と日本国内の反米・反岸闘争

の相互連鎖(1958年6月~1959年6月). 近きに在りて, (56), 51-67.

I know first hand how the atmosphere that gets between China and Japan, and if you say you don't see any of these tension literally could be cut by a knife, then I would say you did not look for it.

I have relatives that live in Guangzhou, and also have family members who have married Chinese , so I know full well Sino-Japanese relations on the personal grass-roots level, as well as i the unique national level aspect. The point is that I don't buy western-articulated poisonous generalizations of how Japanese and Chinese can't get along. I think we have gotten along quite well (given, our relationship is not without bumps and wars) throughout our 3 millenial inseparable relationship. Even before the birth of the Roman Empire, relations between China and Japan have already been.
 
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look like you are the one that should feel ashamed...

First, you took an official news paper which said in 2011, the average salary for cadre is 5300 RMB, and then you took a "BLOG" post and negate EVERYTHING you said and obviously did not read the blog post thoroughly .

LOL. And then there are the 2 pays system, all PLA soldier pays a basic rate AND a subsidery rate, something also done by the Australian. It was so mentioned in both your previous China daily article, and the blog, which the (3000RMB pays) quote you just said were the basic salary, NOT THE TOTAL SALARY and also this, on SCMP

PLA should pay officers more in bid to promote military professionalism, article says | South China Morning Post



Another interesting factor is that the PLA not just pay the person, but also their spouse and/or immediate family member. Something not done with US military at all.

And then you try to use how much Chinese Military Budget to compare with the US budget, dude, did you forgot about the living standard and the GDP per capita difference? Being pays $2000 a months in the US Is not better off than being pay $1000 a month in China.

And finally, I never said China overpays their military, I said, China Is still better off than paying in the US, I know first hand how much US paying its soldier, both in War or at Peace time, and you obviously have no idea how PLA work and US Military work.

I'm sorry. You talk gibberish. First you discredit my second source as a blog post. Then you find the same information in newspaper SCMP. The guy is colonel. A colonel makes 150000$ a year in US army (source :
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/US....htm?filter.jobTitleExact=O6+-+Army+-+Colonel)
Now Chinese colonel's salary is 8000 yuans whch makes roughly 1200$. The colonel says civil servants takes a lot of subsidies which they don't have and their salaries become much lower then the civil servants' salaries. Your source says that not Mine. That's why I don't understand what you're trying to prove here, or what's Your point even. I'm sure you mean something in Your own world but that's most probably our of context.

Anyhow, back to my point.

I say China doesn't need to pursue 4% of GDP to military budget ratio to compete with US military because US Military has a lot more costs compared to Chinese military. Because R&D and buying new military equipment is a fraction compared to salary and upkeep budget.

Since China has a price advantage on manpower and doesn't have a wide network of military bases around the globe to pay lease for, they have a greater percentage of funds inside their military budget to use for R&D and buy new military equipment.
 
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Actually, No. I am neither pro US nor pro China, but am pro Japan. A Japan that is independent of foreign interventionalism, secondly, I am (and have always been) a pro East Asian Unificationist. In fact , I have in my many posts in this forum, have identified that the barrier to Japanese Rise has always been the United States. Ultimately, we Japanese patriots understand the insidious apperture of American (Washington) State Actors have had in Tokyo throughout the years , first it was the guise of Soviet Threat, now, recently the threat of China to bolster and legitimize continued US presence in the Japanese Fatherland. On a much inferior significance, North Korea is sometimes labeled as the threat (and thus is argued as the reason why the US is to remain in Japan and Korea), we all know the reality , my friend. The problem, in the end, is not just the United States ' strategic and research wings that operate malevolently in Japan in the guise of regional security, but also the collaboration of Japanese lawmakers that have been under the influence of America.

My friend, I have deep respect for the United States , its contribution to democracy, and , i suppose in other regards, to the principles of representative government. Despite these ideological notions as well as some valuable social norms in American society, what I don't particular am fond of is the American foreign policy mandate of intervention, either openly or conspiratorially. This , ultimately, if you have ever reviewed political science and nation state systematization , is actually inhibitive of the natural or historical aspect.




The Need of Sino-Japanese Correspondence in the 21st Century: Is there an Empirical Validation ?
de1332d049dbbe16cbfa1d2d10f2e676-jpg.92732


By: @Nihonjin1051, Ph.D.



I. The Historical Link between Japan and China

178f7e8b3c037eab744c3dc118c3b7e3-jpg.92733


The history of Japan and China has is long as well as it is being intertwined through the economic trade, cultural transmission, political and philosophical influence. China has had a direct pivotal role in helping mold and form the early Japanese identity which stems back to the Chinese ancient text known as the Book of Later Han. In this text, Emperor Guangwu of the Han Dynasty provided a golden seal to the early Yamato Clan. In fact this golden seal is referred to In Japan as the King of Na gold seal, and is held in a museum in the Japanese island of Kyushu in commemoration of this ancient political link between both civilizations. During the 7th century AD, the Imperial Japanese Court had initiated what is known as the Taika Reform.

The Taika reform encouraged Japan to build embassies in China as a way to establish proper diplomatic and political rapprochement between the said two entities, and this allowed Japanese students to go study in China. These students that had spent time in China’s Imperial Court and Chinese schools of philosophies allowed them to absorb new information back to Japan. It was through the Taika Reform that Japan brought back teachings of Buddhism, bureaucratic reforms, architectural traits, urban planning traits as well as Imperial court customs – which were then integrated into Japanese culture. One important and lingering Chinese imprint into Japanese society and culture is in the written language; the Japanese Kanji system is based on the Chinese classical characters known as Hanzi. There is , indeed, a cultural and historical commonality.

II. The Dynamic of Japan’s Interaction with East Asia

2d6d0640b67c09b233e50ed4be1e43d7-jpg.92734


“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

-George Orwell
The above aforementioned quote by Orwell takes into consideration how the future is influenced by the past events, and this is a poignant quotation in context of the Japanese and Chinese Equation. The history between Japan and China stretches back over 2 millennia, with formal representation taking place during the beginning of the 8th Century A.D. when Japanese Embassies were created throughout China as well as vice versa.

The marked cross straits interaction between Japan and China was positive with only four militant events; the 12th century war with the Yuan Dynasty and the subsequent attempts of the Mongols to invade Japan, the second was the 16th century Imjin War wherein the forces of Japan under the leadership of Hideyoshi Toyotomi, who was appointed as Kampaku or the Imperial Chancellor and thus the personal hand of the Emperor of Japan. Hideyoshi, who was named Daijo-daijin (Chief Minister) , initiated the unification of Japan and then subsequent mandate to conquer Korea with the goal to acquire the prize of China. The demise of Hideyoshi had led to the collapse of the struggle to conquer Korea , forcing a general retreat of Japanese forces from the Korean peninsula back into Japan proper , and thus would begin a dormant and introverted closed door policy. The 19th century ended with a brutal war between Imperial Japan and Qing Dynasty China known as the 1st Sino-Japanese War, which lasted from 1894 to 1895. The last conflict between China and Japan was the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, which ended in 1945.

The war left deep scars in both China and Japan. The sensitivities of domestic politics in China regarding Japan’s 2014 Collective Defense Principle and re-militarization is historically driven. Japanese should be more considerate of these reactions by the Chinese and approach the issue with an attempt to understand the psychology of the Chinese side and refrain from a defensive posture when reading Chinese media reaction.

III. Approaching China from a Cooperative Position

dd0adb4e35a5e444a85eeca3043fb90a-gif.92735


It is important to focus on the positive developments, particularly when contrasting them with the tensions and the anti-Japanese demonstrations in China during the five years of the Koizumi era and also recently during the beginning of the Administration of Prime Minister Abe. In Japan there is a conviction that China very much needs Japan; be it to protect its foreign image as a peacefully developing country, to maintain its export and FDI-dependent economy, to reduce its energy consumption, to help cope with its environmental problems and that China is open to seeking compromise. Whether or not this is true or not, one thing that Chinese leaders and strategic planners should take into consideration is that Japan has a positive outlook towards China and maintains a policy of cooperation, eager almost, with China.

There are themes that Japan and China can both work on , ranging from Cross Straits Cooperation on Taiwan, addressing the claims in the East China Sea, as well as understanding and working with each other on China’s Ascendancy.

The disputes in the East China Sea are about the sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands (which is known by the Chinese as the Diayutai Islands) and the Exclusive Economic Zone between China and Japan, and the rivaling Air Defense Identification Zones of Japan and China. The solution of the EEZ issue between both countries is closely related to the sovereignty dispute as well as to an EEZ agreement between China and Kore and the ones with Japan and Korea, where there is rivaling claims in the norther part of the East China Sea. According to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continent Shelf, there must be cooperation between the Governments of South Korea, Japan and China to declare the EEZ limits. In regards to the Senkaku Islands, Japan claims that there is no sovereignty dispute because it is in the comfortable position of having de facto control over them, which is refuted by China. Both countries also apply different principles to determine EEZ border between them. It is apparent that these issues are within the forefront of political contention between Tokyo and Beijing.

These issues just discussed have to be put in the context of the growing economic competition and political rivalry of the two countries. The phenomenal growth of China’s economy, which also owes a lot to Japan, had led to increased competition. While trade between the two countries in the 1980s was dominated by China selling natural resources and semi-finished products to Japan, trade is increasingly becoming an exchange of processed and manufactured goods, at an ever-increasing level of sophistication. Although Japan is still an important foreign direct investor in China, since the beginning of the new century, China had started, on a very modest scale, to invest in Japan. This is in order to acquire technology, brands, market access and marketing skills and includes the acquisition of distressed medium-sized Japanese companies. Both Japan and China have cross-straits vested interests within each other, ranging from domestic investment, which is now over $320 Billion.

China’s rise has undoubtedly presented new challenges to Japan and these have been articulated as part of the so called ‘China Threat’ discourse. That China threat debate is a broad term that generally refers to the popular academic discussions of the ways in which China posed potential risks to Japanese economic, security, and political interests. However, the discussion went beyond traditional military threat perceptions based on measurement of intentions and capabilities and encapsulated concerns about new uncertainties posed by China’s rapid development and modernization and how to respond to them.

To address these issues, Japanese leaders are now espousing Sino-Japanese policy consultation and coordination as a way to preserve regional peace and stability, such as in the Korean Peninsula, and as a way to abate any tensions between both countries’ EEZ claims and ADIZ claims. The contention is surmountable. We have to remember that in October 1992, Emperor Akihito of Japan had visited China, suggesting that the mistrust between China and Japan is surmountable and that the legacy of the past can be transcended by the two countries’ common interests. It is also important to recognize the special importance that Japan has attached to its relationship with China, despite the vagaries of politics. This said, development of greater rapprochements between Japan and China in the Taiwan issue, and economic commonalities will benefit both sides. The expected communication between China’s Xi Jinping and Japan’s Shinzo Abe will present opportunities for both sides to address common interests, as well as initiate mechanisms that will allow both Japan and China to find solutions to areas of disagreement.






Works Cited


Cheng, J. (2003). {Chinese-Japanese Relations in the Twenty-First Century}. Journal Of Contemporary Asia,

33(2), 279-282.

Drifte, R. (2009). The Future of the Japanese-Chinese Relationship: The Case for a Grand Political Bargain.

Asia-Pacific Review, 16(2), 55-74. doi:10.1080/13439000903371668

Rose, C. (2010). 'Managing China': risk and risk management in Japan's China policy. Japan Forum, 22(1/2),

149-168. doi:10.1080/09555803.2010.488950

Shuja, S. M. (2000). Tokyo-Beijing relations in the new millennium. Contemporary Review, 277(1618), 257-263.

Yoo, J., Jo, S., & Jung, J. (2014). The Effects Of Television Viewing, Cultural Proximity, And Ethnocentrism

On Country Image. Social Behavior And Personality, 42(1), 89-96.

杉浦//康之. (2009). 中国の「日本中立化」政策と対日情勢認識--日本社会党の訪中と日本国内の反米・反岸闘争

の相互連鎖(1958年6月~1959年6月). 近きに在りて, (56), 51-67.

Actually, No. I am neither pro US nor pro China, but am pro Japan. A Japan that is independent of foreign interventionalism, secondly, I am (and have always been) a pro East Asian Unificationist. In fact , I have in my many posts in this forum, have identified that the barrier to Japanese Rise has always been the United States. Ultimately, we Japanese patriots understand the insidious apperture of American (Washington) State Actors have had in Tokyo throughout the years , first it was the guise of Soviet Threat, now, recently the threat of China to bolster and legitimize continued US presence in the Japanese Fatherland. On a much inferior significance, North Korea is sometimes labeled as the threat (and thus is argued as the reason why the US is to remain in Japan and Korea), we all know the reality , my friend. The problem, in the end, is not just the United States ' strategic and research wings that operate malevolently in Japan in the guise of regional security, but also the collaboration of Japanese lawmakers that have been under the influence of America.

My friend, I have deep respect for the United States , its contribution to democracy, and , i suppose in other regards, to the principles of representative government. Despite these ideological notions as well as some valuable social norms in American society, what I don't particular am fond of is the American foreign policy mandate of intervention, either openly or conspiratorially. This , ultimately, if you have ever reviewed political science and nation state systematization , is actually inhibitive of the natural or historical aspect.




The Need of Sino-Japanese Correspondence in the 21st Century: Is there an Empirical Validation ?
de1332d049dbbe16cbfa1d2d10f2e676-jpg.92732


By: @Nihonjin1051, Ph.D.



I. The Historical Link between Japan and China

178f7e8b3c037eab744c3dc118c3b7e3-jpg.92733


The history of Japan and China has is long as well as it is being intertwined through the economic trade, cultural transmission, political and philosophical influence. China has had a direct pivotal role in helping mold and form the early Japanese identity which stems back to the Chinese ancient text known as the Book of Later Han. In this text, Emperor Guangwu of the Han Dynasty provided a golden seal to the early Yamato Clan. In fact this golden seal is referred to In Japan as the King of Na gold seal, and is held in a museum in the Japanese island of Kyushu in commemoration of this ancient political link between both civilizations. During the 7th century AD, the Imperial Japanese Court had initiated what is known as the Taika Reform.

The Taika reform encouraged Japan to build embassies in China as a way to establish proper diplomatic and political rapprochement between the said two entities, and this allowed Japanese students to go study in China. These students that had spent time in China’s Imperial Court and Chinese schools of philosophies allowed them to absorb new information back to Japan. It was through the Taika Reform that Japan brought back teachings of Buddhism, bureaucratic reforms, architectural traits, urban planning traits as well as Imperial court customs – which were then integrated into Japanese culture. One important and lingering Chinese imprint into Japanese society and culture is in the written language; the Japanese Kanji system is based on the Chinese classical characters known as Hanzi. There is , indeed, a cultural and historical commonality.

II. The Dynamic of Japan’s Interaction with East Asia

2d6d0640b67c09b233e50ed4be1e43d7-jpg.92734


“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

-George Orwell
The above aforementioned quote by Orwell takes into consideration how the future is influenced by the past events, and this is a poignant quotation in context of the Japanese and Chinese Equation. The history between Japan and China stretches back over 2 millennia, with formal representation taking place during the beginning of the 8th Century A.D. when Japanese Embassies were created throughout China as well as vice versa.

The marked cross straits interaction between Japan and China was positive with only four militant events; the 12th century war with the Yuan Dynasty and the subsequent attempts of the Mongols to invade Japan, the second was the 16th century Imjin War wherein the forces of Japan under the leadership of Hideyoshi Toyotomi, who was appointed as Kampaku or the Imperial Chancellor and thus the personal hand of the Emperor of Japan. Hideyoshi, who was named Daijo-daijin (Chief Minister) , initiated the unification of Japan and then subsequent mandate to conquer Korea with the goal to acquire the prize of China. The demise of Hideyoshi had led to the collapse of the struggle to conquer Korea , forcing a general retreat of Japanese forces from the Korean peninsula back into Japan proper , and thus would begin a dormant and introverted closed door policy. The 19th century ended with a brutal war between Imperial Japan and Qing Dynasty China known as the 1st Sino-Japanese War, which lasted from 1894 to 1895. The last conflict between China and Japan was the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, which ended in 1945.

The war left deep scars in both China and Japan. The sensitivities of domestic politics in China regarding Japan’s 2014 Collective Defense Principle and re-militarization is historically driven. Japanese should be more considerate of these reactions by the Chinese and approach the issue with an attempt to understand the psychology of the Chinese side and refrain from a defensive posture when reading Chinese media reaction.

III. Approaching China from a Cooperative Position

dd0adb4e35a5e444a85eeca3043fb90a-gif.92735


It is important to focus on the positive developments, particularly when contrasting them with the tensions and the anti-Japanese demonstrations in China during the five years of the Koizumi era and also recently during the beginning of the Administration of Prime Minister Abe. In Japan there is a conviction that China very much needs Japan; be it to protect its foreign image as a peacefully developing country, to maintain its export and FDI-dependent economy, to reduce its energy consumption, to help cope with its environmental problems and that China is open to seeking compromise. Whether or not this is true or not, one thing that Chinese leaders and strategic planners should take into consideration is that Japan has a positive outlook towards China and maintains a policy of cooperation, eager almost, with China.

There are themes that Japan and China can both work on , ranging from Cross Straits Cooperation on Taiwan, addressing the claims in the East China Sea, as well as understanding and working with each other on China’s Ascendancy.

The disputes in the East China Sea are about the sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands (which is known by the Chinese as the Diayutai Islands) and the Exclusive Economic Zone between China and Japan, and the rivaling Air Defense Identification Zones of Japan and China. The solution of the EEZ issue between both countries is closely related to the sovereignty dispute as well as to an EEZ agreement between China and Kore and the ones with Japan and Korea, where there is rivaling claims in the norther part of the East China Sea. According to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continent Shelf, there must be cooperation between the Governments of South Korea, Japan and China to declare the EEZ limits. In regards to the Senkaku Islands, Japan claims that there is no sovereignty dispute because it is in the comfortable position of having de facto control over them, which is refuted by China. Both countries also apply different principles to determine EEZ border between them. It is apparent that these issues are within the forefront of political contention between Tokyo and Beijing.

These issues just discussed have to be put in the context of the growing economic competition and political rivalry of the two countries. The phenomenal growth of China’s economy, which also owes a lot to Japan, had led to increased competition. While trade between the two countries in the 1980s was dominated by China selling natural resources and semi-finished products to Japan, trade is increasingly becoming an exchange of processed and manufactured goods, at an ever-increasing level of sophistication. Although Japan is still an important foreign direct investor in China, since the beginning of the new century, China had started, on a very modest scale, to invest in Japan. This is in order to acquire technology, brands, market access and marketing skills and includes the acquisition of distressed medium-sized Japanese companies. Both Japan and China have cross-straits vested interests within each other, ranging from domestic investment, which is now over $320 Billion.

China’s rise has undoubtedly presented new challenges to Japan and these have been articulated as part of the so called ‘China Threat’ discourse. That China threat debate is a broad term that generally refers to the popular academic discussions of the ways in which China posed potential risks to Japanese economic, security, and political interests. However, the discussion went beyond traditional military threat perceptions based on measurement of intentions and capabilities and encapsulated concerns about new uncertainties posed by China’s rapid development and modernization and how to respond to them.

To address these issues, Japanese leaders are now espousing Sino-Japanese policy consultation and coordination as a way to preserve regional peace and stability, such as in the Korean Peninsula, and as a way to abate any tensions between both countries’ EEZ claims and ADIZ claims. The contention is surmountable. We have to remember that in October 1992, Emperor Akihito of Japan had visited China, suggesting that the mistrust between China and Japan is surmountable and that the legacy of the past can be transcended by the two countries’ common interests. It is also important to recognize the special importance that Japan has attached to its relationship with China, despite the vagaries of politics. This said, development of greater rapprochements between Japan and China in the Taiwan issue, and economic commonalities will benefit both sides. The expected communication between China’s Xi Jinping and Japan’s Shinzo Abe will present opportunities for both sides to address common interests, as well as initiate mechanisms that will allow both Japan and China to find solutions to areas of disagreement.






Works Cited


Cheng, J. (2003). {Chinese-Japanese Relations in the Twenty-First Century}. Journal Of Contemporary Asia,

33(2), 279-282.

Drifte, R. (2009). The Future of the Japanese-Chinese Relationship: The Case for a Grand Political Bargain.

Asia-Pacific Review, 16(2), 55-74. doi:10.1080/13439000903371668

Rose, C. (2010). 'Managing China': risk and risk management in Japan's China policy. Japan Forum, 22(1/2),

149-168. doi:10.1080/09555803.2010.488950

Shuja, S. M. (2000). Tokyo-Beijing relations in the new millennium. Contemporary Review, 277(1618), 257-263.

Yoo, J., Jo, S., & Jung, J. (2014). The Effects Of Television Viewing, Cultural Proximity, And Ethnocentrism

On Country Image. Social Behavior And Personality, 42(1), 89-96.

杉浦//康之. (2009). 中国の「日本中立化」政策と対日情勢認識--日本社会党の訪中と日本国内の反米・反岸闘争

の相互連鎖(1958年6月~1959年6月). 近きに在りて, (56), 51-67.



I have relatives that live in Guangzhou, and also have family members who have married Chinese , so I know full well Sino-Japanese relations on the personal grass-roots level, as well as i the unique national level aspect. The point is that I don't buy western-articulated poisonous generalizations of how Japanese and Chinese can't get along. I think we have gotten along quite well (given, our relationship is not without bumps and wars) throughout our 3 millenial inseparable relationship. Even before the birth of the Roman Empire, relations between China and Japan have already been.

I have relatives that live in Guangzhou, and also have family members who have married Chinese , so I know full well Sino-Japanese relations on the personal grass-roots level, as well as i the unique national level aspect. The point is that I don't buy western-articulated poisonous generalizations of how Japanese and Chinese can't get along. I think we have gotten along quite well (given, our relationship is not without bumps and wars) throughout our 3 millenial inseparable relationship. Even before the birth of the Roman Empire, relations between China and Japan have already been.

You, being an idealist, think, well, no other word for it, ideally.

While I do agree US have been a driving force with Japanese Foreign Policy, but the problem is on the low scale, it was not actually anything that grand of a scale then say UK or Australia. The reason is simple, the American don't actually trusted the Japanese from the beginning.

Less than what you claim as "Actor Influence" US foreign policy in Japan is and always is simply want Japan to stay out of trouble and most likely out of the way. Been studying history and political decision myself for quite some time now, the thing that make sense is that as long as the situation stays as is, the US Foreign policy stay as is.

I don't know if you had read my previous reply to you before they were deleted by the Moderator for whatever reason. The situation in Japan is a lot different than what you think, from an American point of view. US is always going to be in Asia, unless they relinquish control of CNMI, Guam, and all The Pacific Island, and most importantly the 49th States, Hawai'i. There are always going to be US influence in the region, whether you like it or not. And unlike what you said, there are already plan in motion for US to leave Japan and They would, and most importantly, THEY COULD leave Japan entirely as with they have left Philippine in its entirety with even a bigger trench (I think US Force in Philippine are 2 times as much as US Force in Japan), but what will it be for Japan, China and US?

For US, nothing has or will change, the focus is and always is China, and if they cannot put troop, fleet and aircraft on Japanese Soil. They can put Marine in Guam, Australia and Even Hawai'i. Fleet-wise, US have several Choice for them to put the Entire 7th Fleet in, Guam again, Wake Island, Hawai'i (Which is where it was before WW2) or even Subic Bay now that the Philippine want us back in. Air force would also have numerous location we can put too. Most of Military Asset In Japan are replaceable with US territories or even Friendly US bases. For US, the overall strategically value have not change, although I must admit, the tactical value would change because by giving up Japan, which mean they have given up the First Island Chain. However, with Chinese Rise, sooner or later the Bases in Japan will become untenable (Because they were indeed in range of Chinese Strike) and they would have to give up First Island chain defence eventually.

For China, things have no different too. Japan is a non-factor for China now, basically without the US, they can literally roll over you guys as a matter of hours. I am not saying China will do that, or US is what preventing the Chinese from doing that, just to illustrate the point Japan means nothing to China. Both Militaristically and Economically. Chinese enemies is and always is US, and no other way to say it, Asia in the future will be a playing ground between India, China and US. Japan, on this sense, to the Chinese, is simply just a neighbour to the north, it can be hostile to, it can be grateful to.

For Japan, that's another story, the total vacate of US forces in japan will leave behind a defence gap so wide that you are basically looking for another Philippine to happen. US have 2 Fleet (7th Amphibious Expeditionary Fleet lead by Bonhomie Richard and Carrier Strike Group 5 lead by George Washington) with it there are some 20 surface combatant, and some subsurface combatant. Also located in Japan is some 200 fighter aircraft that spread across the countries 10 Airbases. And then finally the 25000 marine in Okinawa. All those you are to replace or else you will be left with a defence Gap that was probably even bigger than the one the US Left to Philippine. Which mean japan have to cop the different, with economy as bad as it is, can japan raise the defence budget to cop up to the different is an unknown, but what is known simply, even if Japan have the money, it take times to build all the hardware and train all the personnel. So if US were to pack up and leave tomorrow, would you be okay with that?

Greater Asian Union, a concept you hold dear to, will be a Greater Chinese union, what you may think is that when and if such union exist, Japan will be up there with South/Unified Korea and China and administrator the union like UK, France and German in EU and expel foreign devil. But when you look at the EU, the closest organisation that assemble to the Greater Asian Union you dream on. Is not even that. WHile you have the first condition set, which is China don't trust Korea don't trust Japan, as in UK don't Trust France don't trust Germany. The Problem is unlike EU, China is not the UK, nor the France, nor the German. They are the US of EU, and what happened when EU, for argument sake, allow US into European Union? It will be US dominating the whole Union like NATO.

EU Works because the 3 dominate country have similar profile. Both Germany and UK are similar in size, where France is a bit bigger, All of them have similar population, (60 mil to 80 mil of German) and the GDP are similar too. But when you look at Japan, China and Unified Korea (Better just look at South Korea) China trump both Korea + Japan together in GDP, Land mass, Population and Military Strength. A Union with China in it, will not be a Union at all. It will be a dominate force. The reason is, why I have to share if I can simply take it from you? China is neither depending on Japan or Korea to survive, nor was that any significant amount of trade happening in both country, hence China, in this case, have all the chips and both Korea and Japan have nothing.

Then it all come down to the current situation, again, I will ask, even if such an union is possible, would you or any Japanese you know would want to lose their identity as Japanese and as an Individual, to join the Union? Because this is exactly what happened to EU right now, when union take over individualism. Let alone a Union would not just be China, Japan and Korea, but also Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia, and may even be also Indonesia, while some of them are quite desirable, but would you open your country to the less desirable too?

Being ideal is one thing, but when it come down to it, you also need to realise the actual reality. My wife hated when Sweden joining EU, and from what I saw in this forum, you are more nationalist than my wife, and for you to say, you are pro-Japan, it's quite contrary to have said pro-Japan in one hand but want to destroy Japanese Nationalism on the other.

I'm sorry. You talk gibberish. First you discredit my second source as a blog post. Then you find the same information in newspaper SCMP. The guy is colonel. A colonel makes 150000$ a year in US army (source :
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/US....htm?filter.jobTitleExact=O6+-+Army+-+Colonel)

Now Chinese colonel's salary is 8000 yuans whch makes roughly 1200$. The colonel says civil servants takes a lot of subsidies which they don't have and their salaries become much lower then the civil servants' salaries. Your source says that not Mine. That's why I don't understand what you're trying to prove here, or what's Your point even. I'm sure you mean something in Your own world but that's most probably our of context.

When you are talking about a colonel, it does not compare to the GDP average, if you work at the same job for 30 odd years and you still earn your entrant paygrade, what does it say about you and your company?? They call it "AVERAGE" for a reason, not all of us can be a colonel in the US Army with 34 years of experience.

When you compare senior position, then you also need to look at how other senior position fare. In the US, if I work in a company for 30 years, I would have been a senior managerial type people, 100,000 is not even touching the Federal General Scale GS-14 Step 6

General Schedule (US civil service pay scale) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GS-11 to 15 are senior management Where GS-14 is the same requirement of a LTC
Step 1-3 takes 1 years each so step 3 would be 3 years in job.
Step 4-6 takes 2 years each, so step 6 would be 9 years in job

So basically for a colonel in US Army, you are worse off than a GS-14 (Which equivalent to a Lt Col (O-5)) with less than half the time in grade.

Do you think there are more O-6 or more O-1 to O-3

Otherwise you should also talk about all the admiral or general or whatever that have relation/ties to Military Industries, they earn 7 figure in both US and China. What I was saying is for a common soldier. Not a senior member like a colonel.


Anyhow, back to my point.

I say China doesn't need to pursue 4% of GDP to military budget ratio to compete with US military because US Military has a lot more costs compared to Chinese military. Because R&D and buying new military equipment is a fraction compared to salary and upkeep budget.

Since China has a price advantage on manpower and doesn't have a wide network of military bases around the globe to pay lease for, they have a greater percentage of funds inside their military budget to use for R&D and buy new military equipment.
 
.
You, being an idealist, think, well, no other word for it, ideally.

While I do agree US have been a driving force with Japanese Foreign Policy, but the problem is on the low scale, it was not actually anything that grand of a scale then say UK or Australia. The reason is simple, the American don't actually trusted the Japanese from the beginning.

Less than what you claim as "Actor Influence" US foreign policy in Japan is and always is simply want Japan to stay out of trouble and most likely out of the way. Been studying history and political decision myself for quite some time now, the thing that make sense is that as long as the situation stays as is, the US Foreign policy stay as is.

I don't know if you had read my previous reply to you before they were deleted by the Moderator for whatever reason. The situation in Japan is a lot different than what you think, from an American point of view. US is always going to be in Asia, unless they relinquish control of CNMI, Guam, and all The Pacific Island, and most importantly the 49th States, Hawai'i. There are always going to be US influence in the region, whether you like it or not. And unlike what you said, there are already plan in motion for US to leave Japan and They would, and most importantly, THEY COULD leave Japan entirely as with they have left Philippine in its entirety with even a bigger trench (I think US Force in Philippine are 2 times as much as US Force in Japan), but what will it be for Japan, China and US?

For US, nothing has or will change, the focus is and always is China, and if they cannot put troop, fleet and aircraft on Japanese Soil. They can put Marine in Guam, Australia and Even Hawai'i. Fleet-wise, US have several Choice for them to put the Entire 7th Fleet in, Guam again, Wake Island, Hawai'i (Which is where it was before WW2) or even Subic Bay now that the Philippine want us back in. Air force would also have numerous location we can put too. Most of Military Asset In Japan are replaceable with US territories or even Friendly US bases. For US, the overall strategically value have not change, although I must admit, the tactical value would change because by giving up Japan, which mean they have given up the First Island Chain. However, with Chinese Rise, sooner or later the Bases in Japan will become untenable (Because they were indeed in range of Chinese Strike) and they would have to give up First Island chain defence eventually.

For China, things have no different too. Japan is a non-factor for China now, basically without the US, they can literally roll over you guys as a matter of hours. I am not saying China will do that, or US is what preventing the Chinese from doing that, just to illustrate the point Japan means nothing to China. Both Militaristically and Economically. Chinese enemies is and always is US, and no other way to say it, Asia in the future will be a playing ground between India, China and US. Japan, on this sense, to the Chinese, is simply just a neighbour to the north, it can be hostile to, it can be grateful to.

For Japan, that's another story, the total vacate of US forces in japan will leave behind a defence gap so wide that you are basically looking for another Philippine to happen. US have 2 Fleet (7th Amphibious Expeditionary Fleet lead by Bonhomie Richard and Carrier Strike Group 5 lead by George Washington) with it there are some 20 surface combatant, and some subsurface combatant. Also located in Japan is some 200 fighter aircraft that spread across the countries 10 Airbases. And then finally the 25000 marine in Okinawa. All those you are to replace or else you will be left with a defence Gap that was probably even bigger than the one the US Left to Philippine. Which mean japan have to cop the different, with economy as bad as it is, can japan raise the defence budget to cop up to the different is an unknown, but what is known simply, even if Japan have the money, it take times to build all the hardware and train all the personnel. So if US were to pack up and leave tomorrow, would you be okay with that?

Greater Asian Union, a concept you hold dear to, will be a Greater Chinese union, what you may think is that when and if such union exist, Japan will be up there with South/Unified Korea and China and administrator the union like UK, France and German in EU and expel foreign devil. But when you look at the EU, the closest organisation that assemble to the Greater Asian Union you dream on. Is not even that. WHile you have the first condition set, which is China don't trust Korea don't trust Japan, as in UK don't Trust France don't trust Germany. The Problem is unlike EU, China is not the UK, nor the France, nor the German. They are the US of EU, and what happened when EU, for argument sake, allow US into European Union? It will be US dominating the whole Union like NATO.

EU Works because the 3 dominate country have similar profile. Both Germany and UK are similar in size, where France is a bit bigger, All of them have similar population, (60 mil to 80 mil of German) and the GDP are similar too. But when you look at Japan, China and Unified Korea (Better just look at South Korea) China trump both Korea + Japan together in GDP, Land mass, Population and Military Strength. A Union with China in it, will not be a Union at all. It will be a dominate force. The reason is, why I have to share if I can simply take it from you? China is neither depending on Japan or Korea to survive, nor was that any significant amount of trade happening in both country, hence China, in this case, have all the chips and both Korea and Japan have nothing.

Then it all come down to the current situation, again, I will ask, even if such an union is possible, would you or any Japanese you know would want to lose their identity as Japanese and as an Individual, to join the Union? Because this is exactly what happened to EU right now, when union take over individualism. Let alone a Union would not just be China, Japan and Korea, but also Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia, and may even be also Indonesia, while some of them are quite desirable, but would you open your country to the less desirable too?

Being ideal is one thing, but when it come down to it, you also need to realise the actual reality. My wife hated when Sweden joining EU, and from what I saw in this forum, you are more nationalist than my wife, and for you to say, you are pro-Japan, it's quite contrary to have said pro-Japan in one hand but want to destroy Japanese Nationalism on the other.
LoL

I am suddenly remembered something similar about this current situation. The life of Athenian city state and other Greeks city state in wake of the rise of Macedonian and in front of Persian military might. The current situation in Aspac region is quite similar albeit in much grandiose scale. What option they have might? deny the Macedonian who holds the same value with them or joint hands with the wicked Persian they've so loathed before.

What Japanese might do right now is trying her best to preserve the current freedom (albeit limited but it's much better than have nothing at all) and value they've hold right now. Abandoning the strategic alliance with US of A will only inviting danger to their current lifestyle. The Chinese is not so fond with the Japanese when they are talking about history and foreign policy, and both of them is tend to engage in Zero Sum Match when being left alone. The presence of USA in Japan and South Korea bringing some balance in the situation and habitual engagement between both. Without American military presence in Japan, the equation of balance will be disrupted and both China and Japan will leisurely back to their Zero Sum game again.
 
.
LoL

I am suddenly remembered something similar about this current situation. The life of Athenian city state and other Greeks city state in wake of the rise of Macedonian and in front of Persian military might. The current situation in Aspac region is quite similar albeit in much grandiose scale. What option they have might? deny the Macedonian who holds the same value with them or joint hands with the wicked Persian they've so loathed before.

What Japanese might do right now is trying her best to preserve the current freedom (albeit limited but it's much better than have nothing at all) and value they've hold right now. Abandoning the strategic alliance with US of A will only inviting danger to their current lifestyle. The Chinese is not so fond with the Japanese when they are talking about history and foreign policy, and both of them is tend to engage in Zero Sum Match when being left alone. The presence of USA in Japan and South Korea bringing some balance in the situation and habitual engagement between both. Without American military presence in Japan, the equation of balance will be disrupted and both China and Japan will leisurely back to their Zero Sum game again.

Well, our Japanese friend are just being idealist, nothing is wrong for being ideal, I have my own idealist period, after 2 years of war and some struggle later, I came back down to earth

What Japan can do is nothing, without the US, they would literally be at the mercy of China, will China be hostile or gentle is another matter, but it will be like gamble, where at best Japan can hope for is a draw, at worse....And most important of all, is that it's ain't up to the Japanese to decide their own fate, it's the Chinese.

For them, it's a matter of the "better of two evil" both Chinese dominant Asia and US Dominant Asia are not good for Japan individualism, but at the end of the day, would you be choosing the long term rival or the close proximity unknown?

For the US, and as an American, I wanted US to leave Japan too, Japan is too close for China now, and literally all asset in Japan are under Chinese threat shall US went to war with China. it's about time we relocated our asset back to our own soil or at least Compact of Free Association zone in South Pacific and once again uses Guam, Tinian and Wake Island as the backbone of our bases, going back to pre-WW2 stage, but I would have imagine it wouldn't be that easy to pull out the area, a lot of outstanding issue have to be taken care first, then we can talk about it.
 
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Well, our Japanese friend are just being idealist, nothing is wrong for being ideal, I have my own idealist period, after 2 years of war and some struggle later, I came back down to earth

What Japan can do is nothing, without the US, they would literally be at the mercy of China, will China be hostile or gentle is another matter, but it will be like gamble, where at best Japan can hope for is a draw, at worse....And most important of all, is that it's ain't up to the Japanese to decide their own fate, it's the Chinese.

For them, it's a matter of the "better of two evil" both Chinese dominant Asia and US Dominant Asia are not good for Japan individualism, but at the end of the day, would you be choosing the long term rival or the close proximity unknown?

For the US, and as an American, I wanted US to leave Japan too, Japan is too close for China now, and literally all asset in Japan are under Chinese threat shall US went to war with China. it's about time we relocated our asset back to our own soil in South Pacific and once again uses Guam, Tinian and Wake Island as the backbone of our bases, going back to pre-WW2 stage, but I would have imagine it wouldn't be that easy to pull out the area, a lot of outstanding issue have to be taken care first, then we can talk about it.

Well actually, Indonesia, Singapore and Australia will giving some breathing space for the US if shit hit the fan. Sure, Indonesia is not fond of the US, much problems had been happened between the two in the past but Indonesia is not fond with the Chinese too and the Chinese knowing the best what Indonesian intend and preference when must facing China growing military capabilities and their assertive foreign policy against minor power in the region. China knowing firsthand, Indonesia will inviting US and other actors in the pond if it means to preserve the current status quo in the region. ASEAN region, like or not, it will be the most possible flash point in future, if the US and China starting to trading their missiles.
 
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Well actually, Indonesia, Singapore and Australia will giving some breathing space for the US if shit hit the fan. Sure, Indonesia is not fond of the US, much problems had been happened between the two in the past but Indonesia is not fond with the Chinese too and the Chinese knowing the best what Indonesian intend and preference when must facing China growing military capabilities and their assertive foreign policy against minor power in the region. China knowing firsthand, Indonesia will inviting US and other actors in the pond if it means to preserve the current status quo in the region. ASEAN region, like or not, it will be the most possible flash point in future, if the US and China starting to trading their missiles.

As I always said, US have almost no beef with anyone in Asia, beside some country, and for any country in the world, US is not so matter to them as they are so far away, sure Guam is close but US is not cooperate on Guam and most of the US interest is not directed at them.

Most Country in Asia wanted Status Quo, while US left during the 1990s, make no mistake it was the Chinese who invited the American back in Asia.
 
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From my interaction of Filipinos on the ground, their elites as well as academic class --- tend to have and hold a suspicious visage on American interventionism in their country. So let us take that into consideration. China can better cooperate with the rest of Asia , particularly in ASEAN, through a more enlightened approach in dealing with much smaller states. I suppose China, as a gargantuan and continental sized 5 millennial aged Great Power --- has this weight and mantle of Responsibility. And I think despite political and media speculation, the region awaits China's rise.

Definitely, China takes ASEAN very seriously, as seen in a number of institutionalized interactions on various levels, from economy to security, all with the aim of creating a community. I would say, bar a CJK FTA, the most significant economic cooperation China has now is with the ASEAN, CAFTA. The Philippines is a healthy trade partner of China and save a very serious conflict, China will micro-manage the present dispute. Hopefully, the Philippines will finally come to understand that multilateralizing will not work except the already present external actors that are deeply involved in the situation, including, primarily, the US.

As a matter of fact, without the US' destructive and obstructionist presence, the multilateralization will die prematurely even with full participation of outside actors.

I think we have to learn to analyze nation-specific and region-specific interactions outside the confines of western media and web searches. Have you gone to google and typed up "Japan China Relations" ? Results from western media sources herald a situation that seems as if war will erupt any day now, LOL! I always find it hilarious and also insulting when American or British news agencies reporting the dire situations between Japan and China --- more so than even the Japanese and Chinese themselves, LOL.

That's classical right-wing fascist ideology at work--that is the perfect alliance of corporatist interests with state interests. Google is not an exception and that explains well why one must have its own indigenous sources of information. Otherwise, any Google search will provide a certain viewpoint of the US regime.

Thanks to their deep millennial interaction that well predates the US or UK's political presence, China and Japan benefit from a certain historical wisdom; that makes East Asian relations rather incomprehensible to the US or UK as well as render it immune from their destructive interventions. Even with Japan and Korea under effective US manipulation and ideational colonization, look how developed China-Japan-Korea relations are.

And now imagine the potential for development in case the undesired US presence is entirely removed from our own unique East Asian dynamics.

Besides there could've been a lot options on the table. I mean China had a lot to offer to Philippines. Philippines could've handed over the islands with some economic beneficiary status. Or the problem could've been solved in a distant future where China has more military options. You win a war before you fight it. That's why you don't enter a war if you can't win it.

In fact China offered all those economic benefits but it has been repeatedly turned down by the Philippines. China had really no option other than making some critical moves in order to prepare itself to face the United States in the region. With or without China's build-up in SCS, the US would be coming and encircling China. It is obvious that even when China's moves directed at countering the primary (and only) enemy US, they have been interpreted by some regional powers as being aggressive. But, these countries have never been under the same pressure and existential threat China faces now.

Nonetheless, there is still lots of interaction going on economic and educational levels.

If we talk about the propagand front. China has still have the upper hand. I mean US killed millions of people in the ME in the last decade. Of course with the brilliant "de-humanization" techniques killing "arabs" or "muslims" in general is justified. Because as we all know muslims are "terrorists" and "savages". However still in many people's eyes in Asia and Europe, US is a very violent nation that caused a lot of destruction on Earth and definitely needs a rival that stops it from doing what it wants to do. China is the best candidate.

Est Asians will never trust the US or any colonial Western power, for that matter. But we are practical and pragmatist (deeply secular) people. As you see in many of @Nihonjin1051 's comments, we know what we want to do and largely in control of the variables. Of course, it is a multileveled and extremely complicated mix of regional-global politics; it is both hard to comprehend and also impossible not to make some tactical mistakes.

But our strategy is sound.

Don't agree with that. You have a lot of bottlenecks in such projects. Money is only one variable. More money is not equal to more output. Forming a military industrial complex takes time. You need to have experienced engineers that has prior experiences in such projects. I mean think about it US makes stealth planes since 1980's and the R&D for it has started in 1970's. So there is a 40 years of experience. Hence it's not hard to say that the guy who started to work on stealth plane project in 70's and if that guy is still doing stealth planes today, that guy has 40 years of experience. That guy would probably be in his late 60's or early 70's. Think about how many engineers he trained for that project. Think about his know how. You can't buy trained and experienced technical person with money. You can raise them with time and with throwing a lot of projects in front of them. Money won't be a bottleneck for China, that's why throwing more money to R&D won't particularly be needed.

I agree on all these points, my friend. Indigenous development is what China cherishes most. As you say, throwing out money into a project won't create miracles as a certain time is required to train and raise the required knowledge and talent pool. This includes starting brain-regain, which China has been working on aggressively. China also has the unique chance of having very developed neighbors that are more willing than the West to share key technologies, and then there is China's own Taiwan, which, as @Martian2 has proven many times, contributed and continues to contribute a lot in terms of the Mainland's technological development.

Don't agree with it. China goes for asymmetrical development and investing heavily on game changers. That's why I expect that until China actually matches US with the raw size, there would be some game changers in the field which will mitigate the existing shortcomings.

I agree that the OP sounded a little pessimistic. On this, my approach is, better be critical of one's capabilities than be overconfident of them. Over-preparation, as long as done within one's practical limits (not in Soviet-style), is beneficial. China cares about asymmetrical capabilities to strike the US by exploiting its own weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

If J-20 is actually not observable by US radars, I wouldn't worry much about the size of my navy in SCS. You guys have the logistics advantage in the area. There are hundereds of air bases where China can lift a plane. How about US? If J-20 won't be detected by US radars China would probably turn SCS into a logistical nightmare for US Navy.

We approach the island build-up project with such a perspective in mind, my friend.

This irrational perpetuation of 'fear' of China is actually not new. The Spanish , in trying to consolidate their control of the Philippines during the colonial epoch , had implemented draconian laws that tried to exclude and isolate and repress the Chinese immigration in the Philippines, ergo, anti-Sangley Laws. The Spanish perpetuated racial stereotypes of Chinese as being subvertists, which had led to Filipno native people to develop an anti-Chinese perception, artificially. I suppose the Americans, in their necessitization of controlling the Philippines , have utilized diplomatic and political encouragment to draw upon that historical anti-Chinese notion in the Philippines, which was artificially created by another western imperialist interventionist power, Spain.

Very acute, historical-empirical points, my friend. That's the classical colonial policy of setting up artificial racial, ethnic, economic and cultural barriers between historical neighbors. Europeans have done that in Africa, as well. There is a reason why Southern and Northern Sudanese came to hate one another. Being a vile extension of the worst aspects of European colonialism, the US regime would naturally copy and improvise the same policies to become even a greater menace to us.

Actually, No. I am neither pro US nor pro China, but am pro Japan.

As a matter of fact, a pro-Japan position automatically necessitates to be anti "US colonialism over Japan." Being pro-China, on the other hand, suggests a desire for regional integration across historical-political (nation-state) lines. The historial comparative experience and example of Japan-US and Japan-China engagement proves this point. The more our peoples and governments realize this dynamic, the better off we mutually become.

A Japan that is independent of foreign interventionalism, secondly, I am (and have always been) a pro East Asian Unificationist.

And the only obstacle in front of both of these objectives is the destructive presence of US militarist foreign policy that literally paralyzes Japan and keeps it out of options that would otherwise be available not only within the context of Japan-China relations, but also of Japan-Korea relations.

I have in my many posts in this forum, have identified that the barrier to Japanese Rise has always been the United States.

Obviously, when the US talks of Japan's normalization, they imagine yet another Saddamized polity in East Asia to act on their behalf and often in a suicidal way--only to be discarded later. Because, at the end of the day, the US regime simply wishes us to spill each other's blood and stay forever weak and dependent. This is how they make money and maintain hegemony. Look at their ISIS policy in Syria and you can get a hold of the contours of their "principled" foreign policy in the East Asian theater.

Against such destructive pragmatism, we must be, a least, equally pragmatist, otherwise, there will be no one to shed tears for us when we are at each other's throat. Of course, this will never happen, but, a political consciousness of this fact is important and must academically be formulated and theorized, my friend.

Ultimately, we Japanese patriots understand the insidious apperture of American (Washington) State Actors have had in Tokyo throughout the years , first it was the guise of Soviet Threat, now, recently the threat of China to bolster and legitimize continued US presence in the Japanese Fatherland. On a much inferior significance, North Korea is sometimes labeled as the threat (and thus is argued as the reason why the US is to remain in Japan and Korea), we all know the reality , my friend. The problem, in the end, is not just the United States ' strategic and research wings that operate malevolently in Japan in the guise of regional security, but also the collaboration of Japanese lawmakers that have been under the influence of America.

Often, US chokehold over Japan is formulated as "the iron triangle," that is media, diplomacy and business. I would say, people have better control over the diplomacy (indirectly through executive control), hence, intergovernmental relationship is important and promising, as seen during the short tenure of Mr. Hatoyama. Business can be brought over in time as Japan-China economic relations prove to be more and more profitable. Business tends to be pragmatist, so, they will slowly desert their conspiracy with the extensions of the US regime that run across Japan's vital arteries. For this, both sides must be extremely cautious not to let conjectural political disagreements to hurt business-to-business and people-to-people relations.

http://china.org.cn/business/2016-02/05/content_37742206.htm

The one I am more concerned about is the media, which is harder to control. On this, Japan's true patriots need to generate their own alternative discourses and means of information dissemination, and enlightened people like yourself, my friend, are the real assets for both nations' future.

I have relatives that live in Guangzhou, and also have family members who have married Chinese , so I know full well Sino-Japanese relations on the personal grass-roots level, as well as i the unique national level aspect.

Always welcome to Greater China, which is your second natural home, my friend.

The point is that I don't buy western-articulated poisonous generalizations of how Japanese and Chinese can't get along. I think we have gotten along quite well (given, our relationship is not without bumps and wars) throughout our 3 millenial inseparable relationship. Even before the birth of the Roman Empire, relations between China and Japan have already been.

Definitely. History is the best reference point for China-Japan relations and the opinon of some polities with insignificant level of historical wisdom is of no worth and practical value for us.

And I do not see why that person thinks your pro-Asian integrationist/developmentalist position has anything to do with your job prospects, allegedly, in China. Even if that would be true for yourself, that would be considered by us an enormous gain for China's (all of China, I mean) academia and we would be more than delighted. So, DO NOT TAKE IT AS AN INSULT, MY FRIEND.
 
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...I am (and have always been) a pro East Asian Unificationist.
Essentially, what you want is an Asian version of America.

It is said of the French Foreign Legion is that the Legion does not care of your past or even if you have any affinity for France, but only that you serve the Legion with honor and loyalty. America is the larger version of the Legion. America does not care of your origin but only if you are willing to live under its ideals.

What you want is an Asian version of what America evangelize. Not identical in every ways but only in the necessary ones. What you want is for all Asians to subordinate their national identities under a racialist -- not necessarily racist -- umbrella and apparently lead by China and JPN.
 
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And I do not see why that person thinks your pro-Asian integrationist/developmentalist position has anything to do with your job prospects, allegedly, in China. Even if that would be true for yourself, that would be considered by us an enormous gain for China's (all of China, I mean) academia and we would be more than delighted. So, DO NOT TAKE IT AS AN INSULT, MY FRIEND.

Thank you @TaiShang , if you are every interested in seminar works, one that i had a pleasure of taking part in: (tho i hope you can understand some Japanese, perhaps you can find academic access).

公開シンポジウム 東アジアをつなぐ教育の可能性を探る : 貧困・格差・ナショナリズムを越えて
Education and the Prospects for East Asian Unity : Transcending Poverty, Social Divisions and Nationalism
Source:教育学研究 = The Japanese journal of educational research / 日本教育学会機関誌編集委員会 編, 2015, Vol. 82 No. 1, p. 98, 7 p.

ISSN:03873161

Open Symposium : Education and the Prospects for East Asian Unity : Transcending Poverty, Social Divisions and Nationalism : 2015-03|書誌詳細|国立国会図書館サーチ
 
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