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Knitting the India-Sri Lanka relationship closer

Gen elections are coming up with amendments for the better.. Let the people choose.. I'm no fan of him either.. But change was desperately needed

Of course general elections are coming and I hope there would be a change of government. Otherwise with a government that does not represent general sentiments problems will definitely occur. People will come to streets. There is still honey moon period with new gover and it is getting over.

The good thing with MR was, only he had the ability to keep the nationalistic parties at bay. RW cannot. Because nationalistic parties are subservient to MR. Nationalistic forces have a feeling whatever wrong MR had, they can trust MR. RW does not have that. So problems will definitely occur. Remember RW was in power 2001-02. His bending towards LTTE, NGOs and Norway was legendary. We thought RW had learnt a lesson. But he hasnt. By the time he was ousted from power a new nationalistic party JHU was formed. Nationalism goes high only when RW is in power, not when MR is in power.

And we really dont have an NPC that we can devolve power. You will know that looking at what they do.
And RW is not better in economic front as well. Look at CB case even within months.

All historical and archaeological evidence prove otherwise.. I'have studied in debt of my ancestry, We dutch Burghers have very detailed genealogical documentations.. And i know for a fact even those who claim Vanni regions in the North as thier homelands are infact slave labor bought in by my ancestors

That is exactly the point. You yourself know this homeland concept is bogus. Sinhala people knows that. But I dont think average tamil knows that. But a process of manufacturing history started by tamil leaders. That was how the conflict started.
So without clearing these up we cannot and wont be able to proceed. Do you think Sinhala people would agree with a bogus historical claim after thousands of their sons had died to protect the Sinhala claim and actually won?

You mention about genealogical documentations. Where are they now?
 
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Of course general elections are coming and I hope there would be a change of government. Otherwise with a government that does not represent general sentiments problems will definitely occur. People will come to streets. There is still honey moon period with new gover and it is getting over.

The good thing with MR was, only he had the ability to keep the nationalistic parties at bay. RW cannot. Because nationalistic parties are subservient to MR. Nationalistic forces have a feeling whatever wrong MR had, they can trust MR. RW does not have that. So problems will definitely occur. Remember RW was in power 2001-02. His bending towards LTTE, NGOs and Norway was legendary. We thought RW had learnt a lesson. But he hasnt. By the time he was ousted from power a new nationalistic party JHU was formed. Nationalism goes high only when RW is in power, not when MR is in power.

And we really dont have an NPC that we can devolve power. You will know that looking at what they do.
And RW is not better in economic front as well. Look at CB case even within months.



That is exactly the point. You yourself know this homeland concept is bogus. Sinhala people knows that. But I dont think average tamil knows that. But a process of manufacturing history started by tamil leaders. That was how the conflict started.
So without clearing these up we cannot and wont be able to proceed. Do you think Sinhala people would agree with a bogus historical claim after thousands of their sons had died to protect the Sinhala claim and actually won?

You mention about genealogical documentations. Where are they now?

Mostly kept at the Dutch reformed Church Wolfendhal and Dutch Burgher Union, Also many records are in Antwerp and Amsterdam archives of the VoC.. You can also get some online but you have to register

You seem to have a short term memory.. At no time in history except may be JR's time for a very brief period was a government complicit in espousing ethnic and religious hatred MR did that with BBS and other Ravaya thugs
 
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Mostly kept at the Dutch reformed Church Wolfendhal and Dutch Burgher Union, Also many records are in Antwerp and Amsterdam archives of the VoC.. You can also get some online but you have to register

You seem to have a short term memory.. At no time in history except may be JR's time for a very brief period was a government complicit in espousing ethnic and religious hatred MR did that with BBS and other Ravaya thugs

Yes BBS and Ravaya was MR's biggest mistake.
But I meant the Sinhala nationalistic force in the real sense, not the few BBS lunatics. RW's gover can lead the whole sinhala mindset into a nationalistic state. RW did it the last time, and probably will end up doing it in a mega scale which is unhealthy for SL.
 
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You sinhalese are hyper insecure and are once again making a mess out of favourable situation.

A federal structure will give some political peace and satisfaction to the tamils and subsequently over the years you can gradually douse this social fire. If you think you are ever going to convince anyone that they are not native to your island , and that they should bow to your cultural dictats then that's never going to happen . The suggestion itself is straight up racism .

Ensure that the federal structure allows for free movement of people , keep the defence related portfolios with center , and keep an important share in critical cultural fortfolio like education with the center and your security will be more than guaranteed.
And make a concerted educational attempt to bury racist ideas that tamils don't belong to the island. They migrated to and influnced entire kindoms in south east asia . The ram setu bridge was traversable till 1500s . Do you really think they would not have migrated a few kilometers to your island.

Your civil war was fanned by hardline ideas on both sides . India may have had a small part for a small time , but on the whole it was your own doing. And yet you are not letting go of hardline ideas.

India should be good example for you on how to maintain social peace among various ethinicities . A centralised federation is one of India's greatest strengths .
 
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You sinhalese are hyper insecure and are once again making a mess out of favourable situation.

A federal structure will give some political peace and satisfaction to the tamils and subsequently over the years you can gradually douse this social fire. If you think you are ever going to convince anyone that they are not native to your island , and that they should bow to your cultural dictats then that's never going to happen . The suggestion itself is straight up racism .

Ensure that the federal structure allows for free movement of people , keep the defence related portfolios with center , and keep an important share in critical cultural fortfolio like education with the center and your security will be more than guaranteed.
And make a concerted educational attempt to bury racist ideas that tamils don't belong to the island. They migrated to and influnced entire kindoms in south east asia . The ram setu bridge was traversable till 1500s . Do you really think they would not have migrated a few kilometers to your island.

Your civil war was fanned by hardline ideas on both sides . India may have had a small part for a small time , but on the whole it was your own doing. And yet you are not letting go of hardline ideas.

India should be good example for you on how to maintain social peace among various ethinicities . A centralised federation is one of India's greatest strengths .
Such a small state like SL doesn't need a federal structure to satisfy a bunch of Tamils. Besides we can see the golden example set by India on federal system where each state trying to drag the country into its own path and India has virtually become a cluster **** with a giant amount of corruption and idiocy. No thanks!! Keep it to yourself. Several different minority groups don't need their own federal system to be a part of the country. Centralisation is the reason why Sri Lanka has a high literacy rate and overall HDI whereas it's very hard to carry out development plans in India. Tamil is already one of the national languages and it is enforced on majority through school curriculum where they teach Tamil as a compulsory subject. Tamils are integrated in mainstream political parties, sports and all other impprtant institutions. What else do they expect? I hate to be a jingoistic idiot. However the reality is that Tamils refuse to intermingle with other communities which can be observed in any place where they live in large numbers. In the UK for instance, some Tamils can't even speak English despite living here for 30 years. How can you reason with such a group of people? Another factor is that cast systen is prevalent among the Tamils in North where only higher cast Tamils are admitted into good schools and lower cast is left to rot with poverty. Any attempt of federal system would mean that the ordinary Tamils would be crushed under the higher cast chauvinists but under this system there is hope that we can establish rule of law and give everyone an equal opportunity.

With due respect, you as an Indian should be the last one to accuse us of racism. One should only have to watch bollywood movies to figure out how dark skinned South Indians are portrayed in North India. At least in Sri Lanka, the situation is fast changing and there is absolutely zero chance of seeing such amount of racism in media.
 
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You sinhalese are hyper insecure and are once again making a mess out of favourable situation

There is no favorable situation. The tamil leaders are yet again on war path. They are openly acting anti Lankan. We cannot and will not devolve power with anti Lankan. I don’t think even India will devolve power with anti Indian elements. Same story.


We are not being hyper insecure that is normal understanding and acknowledgment of security concerns nothing else. Don’t you have security concerns with respect to Pakistan and china. So same way we do. Even any non SLn will understand the rationality of SL’s security concerns.


A federal structure will give some political peace and satisfaction to the tamils and subsequently over the years you can gradually douse this social fire

Why a federal structure? A federal structure will ultimately result in disintegration of SL in long term. And federal structures are used in countries that existed as separate nations and joined together to form a single country. SL never had such a situation.

There is no reason to have a federal structure in SL simply because we did not have separate nations ethnic wise.


If you think you are ever going to convince anyone that they are not native to your island , and that they should bow to your cultural dictats then that's never going to happen . The suggestion itself is straight up racism .

Do you know tamil’s historical claims? DO you know that Tamils claim Sinhala is a tamil hybrid and they should be tamil. Do you know that tamil leaders say there is no people called Sinhala and that they should accept they are tamil. Do you have any idea on what these tamil leaders say?


This whole issue is a history debate and should be solved in that manner. We are not saying tamils are not natives, we are simply saying manufacturing history should be stopped. And the correct version of history should be researched and agreed upon. It was a tamil leader who actually came up with this idea.


Ensure that the federal structure allows for free movement of people , keep the defence related portfolios with center , and keep an important share in critical cultural fortfolio like education with the center and your security will be more than guaranteed.


Given SL’s geo political environment, that will never work.


And make a concerted educational attempt to bury racist ideas that tamils don't belong to the island. They migrated to and influnced entire kindoms in south east asia . The ram setu bridge was traversable till 1500s . Do you really think they would not have migrated a few kilometers to your island.

They migrated but mingled with the people and became a part of Sinhala people. If going by your logic same can be said to British. No one say tamils don’t belong here. The point is we cannot manufacture history to satisfy ethnic egos.

There was no racism against Tamils to be honest. Look at the NPC CM himself. Tamils enjoy benefits and opportunity in this country like any Sinhala does. Individually there is equality in SL.

Have you heard about Ponnambalam and his racism? Do you know that current politicians tread in the same path. The root cause of SL issue is ultra tamil racism or Tamil Zionism as some people define.


Your civil war was fanned by hardline ideas on both sides . India may have had a small part for a small time , but on the whole it was your own doing. And yet you are not letting go of hardline ideas.

Please go and read SL history properly and not from your favorite tamil sources. That will give you an understanding of what really happened. Eelam project started wayyy back SL became independent. Even in early 1900s there were issues. A tamil politician openly insulted Sinhala people and that resulted in first Sinhala – tamil ethnic riot in 1939.


India should be good example for you on how to maintain social peace among various ethinicities . A centralised federation is one of India's greatest strengths


India can be an example to a country which is an accumulation of different nations. SL is not. SL has only one nation, not two. That is the problem. That is why I say this comes down to a history debate.

Another factor is that cast systen is prevalent among the Tamils in North where only a higher cast Tamils are admitted into good schools and lower cast is left to rot with poverty. Any attempt of federal system would mean that the ordinary Tamils would be crushed under the higher cast chauvinists but under this system there is hope that we can establish rule of law and give everyone an equal opportunity

Actually machan that is one reason, power devolution debate came up. Normally tamil leaders are from a higher caste who had enslaved rest of the people. In North people from lower castes were not allowed to enter temples. So in 1957 a temple ordinance act was passed in SL parliament to address this issue. That was the real reason Tamil politicians then took to streets because they cant maintain north with their own rules.

In 70s, Sirima B was the first leader who was targetted with a bomb. She was saved because of a group of low caste people.
 
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Indian social problems are because of Indian social problems . The political structure has nothing to do with it . If anything it is a massively stabilising force allowing different states to follow their own models. And laggard states often end of copying the models of successful ones . Similarly your HDI is not a result of centralisation , that is again superficial nonsense.

For good or bad , tamils want to preserve their language and culture . And they frankly have a right to a framework that gurarantees that . History has nothing to do with it , their numbers alone justify their demands . If other ethnicities don't insist on such a framework , that doesn't make their demands any less reasonable.

I am not suggesting that there are no racist ideas among sections of tamils. The solution to such ideas is peaceful debate ,and not imposed state violence. Currently you not devolving even police powers to the tamil provinces . Now you know that your military did commit mass rapes of tamils , among other attrocities . And police represents the state sanctioned violence . Do you really think they will feel secure knowing their local elected politicians can't even control the police , especially considering what your forces have done . Do you think that is a climate for peaceful reconciliation .


Racist ideas come and go . When a peoples security and cultural rights are guaranteed , most of them them gradually opt for peace . You don't chanllenge ideas with violence or threat of violence or threats of cultural destruction . There was the aryan invasion theory doing the rounds in tamil nadu in the 50s . It all but gone now.

You are small island , that is exactly why you need to be more accomodative of each others requirements . You don't have the economic , social , geographical depth to handle violent conflicts.

As for Bollywood racism , well there is bollywood racism and there is violent civil war racism .
 
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Indian social problems are because of Indian social problems . The political structure has nothing to do with it . If anything it is a massively stabilising force allowing different states to follow their own models. And laggard states often end of copying the models of successful ones . Similarly your HDI is not a result of centralisation , that is again superficial nonsense.

For good or bad , tamils want to preserve their language and culture . And they frankly have a right to a framework that gurarantees that . History has nothing to do with it , their numbers alone justify their demands . If other ethnicities don't insist on such a framework , that doesn't make their demands any less reasonable.

I am not suggesting that there are no racist ideas among sections of tamils. The solution to such ideas is peaceful debate ,and not imposed state violence. Currently you not devolving even police powers to the tamil provinces . Now you know that your military did commit mass rapes of tamils , among other attrocities . And police represents the state sanctioned violence . Do you really think they will feel secure knowing their local elected politicians can't even control the police , especially considering what your forces have done . Do you think that is a climate for peaceful reconciliation .


Racist ideas come and go . When a peoples security and cultural rights are guaranteed , most of them them gradually opt for peace . You don't chanllenge ideas with violence or threat of violence or threats of cultural destruction . There was the aryan invasion theory doing the rounds in tamil nadu in the 50s . It all but gone now.

You are small island , that is exactly why you need to be more accomodative of each others requirements . You don't have the economic , social , geographical depth to handle violent conflicts.

As for Bollywood racism , well there is bollywood racism and there is violent civil war racism .
Leave aside India's problems because India's problems are India's concerns. Sri Lanka's high HDI has everything to do with centralisation so is East Asia (excluding North Korea) and Singapore's economic success. Without our centralised system, you will see regional thugs of both Sinhalese and Tamils running the country by their own rules and sky-rocketing corruption.

Tamils want to preserve their culture but they should understand that the world doesn't revolve around them. They shouldn't refuse to intermingle with other ethnic groups. We live in a globalised world. The issue of Tamils is that not racism, it's their irrational fear for people who are different to them which has no solid base. By your argument, then all the Sinhalese should look at Tamils at the angle of LTTE crimes and start hating every Tamil they encounter. If such mentality is widespread among Sinhalese,our country would be in ruins but thankfully Sinhalese show a little bit of maturity. Autonomy is something that is never going to happen. Any attempt for federalism would mean that ultranatonalist groups among Sinhalese would easily gain power. Only path to reconciliation is providing them opportunities to succeed in our society and cooperation between ethnic groups and for that we need to have a healthy economy, we need to have investments in the North, we need to provide them with jobs etc. Solutions for these issues is not that simple as you would like to think. Federalism would only mean more problems not solutions.

I am not into the racist crap. I want a Sri Lanka based on a centralised meritocratic system where each individual is judged according to his/her own performance and his/her ability to serve the interests of the country. I for one would prefer a minority leader (a Tamil included) who is superior in performance than a Sinhalese who is inferior in performance so trying racism card one me would be useless.
 
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These lankans are so anti-Tamil no wonder the Tamils made LTTE to protect themselves. To the singer lankans, you adopted Indian Buddhism and culture, so you're as foreign to the land as Tamils are.
 
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@Saradiel Funny thing is that, for the Tamils in the North their biggest enemies are their own high cast chauvinists, not Sinhalese.
 
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Indian social problems are because of Indian social problems . The political structure has nothing to do with it . If anything it is a massively stabilising force allowing different states to follow their own models. And laggard states often end of copying the models of successful ones . Similarly your HDI is not a result of centralisation , that is again superficial nonsense

No he has a point. Sri Lanka’s economic development and HDI is due to centralization. This was all achieved amidst brutal terrorism for 30 years. Centralisation leads to quick decision and action. Actually London school of economics and political science once said in a conference after research into SL’s model that it is the reason for development even during political instability.



For good or bad , tamils want to preserve their language and culture . And they frankly have a right to a framework that gurarantees that . History has nothing to do with it , their numbers alone justify their demands . If other ethnicities don't insist on such a framework , that doesn't make their demands any less reasonable.

No one has blocked tamils from preserving their language and culture. Have you ever been to SL? Do you know Tamil is an official language in SL and that majority of Tamils live among Sinhala?


It is ridiculous to say need to preserve the language and culture makes federalism a reasonable demand? Where does that end? Take UK for example, how do tamils there preserve their language and culture? Ask federalism from British? Unlike in British, Tamil language has official status in SL, Tamil language schools, cultural centres are funded by government. SL government does everything to safeguard tamil culture?


If we are to go ahead with your argument, wont that apply to religious minorities as well? Does that mean religious minorities need federalism? Even your country does not have a fully fledged federal set up, but a quasi federal set up.


Federalism is really not for SL because the basic requirement for its applicability which is historical existence as separate nations does not exist in SL. If every minority end up asking for federalism because they want to preserve culture, where would that leave countries all over the world?


I suggest you to come to SL and see for yourself whether SL gover preserve the tamil culture and language? After all what TN is for?


I am not suggesting that there are no racist ideas among sections of tamils. The solution to such ideas is peaceful debate ,and not imposed state violence

Of course peaceful debate that is what I am saying. And debate about what? Every debate on SL issue end up in history. Because that is the real root cause. There never was state violence, but sporadic ethnic riots and state violence are two different things. I think India also experience caste, religious riots even to this day, so you should have the ability to distinguish the two.



Currently you not devolving even police powers to the tamil provinces

Yes. Because SL is not confident on doing that. Few weeks back an SL policeman was shot in North and gover did not reveal it to media and public. This was how problems began in 70s. So SL will never ever take a risk. We have our own security concerns and based on that we take actions. Just because someone who lives in another country feel like we should do that, we are not bound to do anything.


Do you know SL gover released upto 13000+ LTTE cadres to society after rehabilitation? So we have security concerns. I think even india will take their security concerns seriously, so does SL.


Now you know that your military did commit mass rapes of tamils , among other attrocities .

What mass rapes? What do you know about that? Why does even UN failed to mention about mass rapes. Charges against SL are not with substantial evidence just here say. I remember a UK paper published that 1400 people die a day after war. When asked for sources and the reporters of UK paper accepted they made a mistake and published wrong news. But they never corrected the news. So likewise a lot of misinformation goes around SL. So we are not bound to answer for crimes we did not do.


And police represents the state sanctioned violence .
How does police represent state sanctioned violence? Is that the way in India?



Do you really think they will feel secure knowing their local elected politicians can't even control the police , especially considering what your forces have done . Do you think that is a climate for peaceful reconciliation .
What have our forces done? Then why did Tamil civilians cross the defence lines and came towards SLA fleeing from LTTE front lines? Why? Does a victim run towards an aggressor looking for protection? What sort of logic is that?


The police have been in action in Jaffna from 1995 and in rest of north since 2009. There have never been such a case informed.


Racist ideas come and go . When a peoples security and cultural rights are guaranteed , most of them them gradually opt for peace .

Can’t the same be said to Sinhalese?


You don't chanllenge ideas with violence or threat of violence or threats of cultural destruction

Of course that is why I said we need a proper debate on History and solve it for all. That is what caused the war. That was what the conflict was about. It was you who threw the violence and weapons to this conflict and made it bloody. You should realize it.


There was the aryan invasion theory doing the rounds in tamil nadu in the 50s . It all but gone now.
That is TN ne. TN is the undisputed tamil homeland and people in TN have every right to ask for devolution and to strive for preservation of their culture and language. SL’s North and East is a disputed issue where both parties do not agree on history. So what should be done is solve that debate.


You don't have the economic , social , geographical depth to handle violent conflicts.
For your information, the conflict is over. And we handled not one but three conflicts. It is apparent you know nothing about SL.


violent civil war racism

What is the meaning of violent civil war racism? Does that even have a meaning?

The forefathers of the conflict was Ponnambalam who insulted Sinhala people as a mongrel race made up of North Indians and indigenous SLns and that SL is a tamil country. I think you have sense to realize Sinhala people will not be silent at the face of such racism.

The issue with SL is the ultra tamil racism of early 20th century. For your information Tamil leaders like Arunachalam whom is taught to SL students as a progressive Tamil leader in SL talked about an Eelam in 1922. That was 28 years before SL’s independence. So this is not certainly a reaction towards so called Sinhala oppression

These lankans are so anti-Tamil no wonder the Tamils made LTTE to protect themselves. To the singer lankans, you adopted Indian Buddhism and culture, so you're as foreign to the land as Tamils are.

How does a adoption of a religion changes that? Isnt that wierd logic? Are you saying non Hindu Indians are outsiders. This is the problem your logic begins with your religion. Ours begins with civilisation. A christiam, Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim SInhalese is the same to us.
 
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We can gain nothing from succumb to the demands of India. It is through our own path that we can achieve salvation. India should respect our concerns rather than pressing on their own solutions like 13th amendment.

The pressing was done by Congress under US pressure.

Remember that our Centre is not dependent on some politicians.

We can change this path and walk anew towards a better future together.

As for security concerns, our only concern is that your country shouldn't become an offshore military base for others who are hostile to us.

Simple.
 
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The pressing was done by Congress under US pressure.

Remember that our Centre is not dependent on some politicians.

We can change this path and walk anew towards a better future together.

As for security concerns, our only concern is that your country shouldn't become an offshore military base for others who are hostile to us.

Simple.

If India acted more mature enough. We wouldn't have any reason to go with China. As of now, our own salvation is China.
 
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The pressing was done by Congress under US pressure.

Remember that our Centre is not dependent on some politicians.

We can change this path and walk anew towards a better future together.

As for security concerns, our only concern is that your country shouldn't become an offshore military base for others who are hostile to us.

Simple.
It's still the same. Modi as the previous government is promoting his federal system into Sri Lanka which will bring nothing but more problems. Why can't India for once be pragmatic and accept the realities in the region? Never forget that Sri Lankan people are some of the only people in the region that don't hate India. Thanks to the idiocy of Indian government, it will make more haters in the region by talking about issues that are sensitive to SL.
 
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