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KLF: ‘All Indian Muslims are not doing well in India'

KLF: ‘Just because Bollywood has 3 Khans doesn’t mean all Indian Muslims are doing well’

KARACHI:

There are Muslims across the border who choose to live in ghettos despite having heavy pockets. And it’s not because they are following the religion’s ascetic principles.

According to Laurent Gayer, a senior research fellow at the Centre National de la Rescherche Scientifique in New Delhi, Muslims in some of India’s cities choose to segregate themselves because they perceive themselves to be a part of a vulnerable minority. This is one of the very few bleak realities described in the pages of the book ‘Muslims in Indian States: Trajectories of Marginalisation’. The book, a collection of essays edited by Gayer and political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot, is packed with statistics which point to the social, political and economic plight of India’s largest minority.

A book launch was organised at the Karachi Literature Festival on Saturday during which Gayer and Dr Syed Jaffar Ahmed from Karachi University’s Pakistan Study Centre spoke about the socioeconomic difficulties faced by over 150 million Muslims living in the world’s largest democracy.

Columnist Irfan Husain, who moderated the discussion said, “The introduction of the book makes for a very depressing read,” adding that the difficulties faced by Muslims in India are a mirror image of what minorities face in Pakistan.

Ahmed’s introduction on the book’s context was brief but extremely informative. He said that given the difficulties faced by Muslims in the state, the contemporary view of India as a modern democracy was challenged, specifically in the 90s. “Secularism remains a major issue in India. If it takes a backseat, the future will be very bleak.”

The discussion then drifted towards the historically frigid relationship shared by Pakistan and India and whether this had any implications for Muslims living across the border. “Honestly, I just don’t know. After the Mumbai attack in 2008, there was no backlash against Muslims. Some Muslims clerics even refused to bury the attackers,” said Gayer. “I guess that there is no systematic relationship between interstate relations and marginalisation.”

During the discussion, someone blurted that things surely can’t be that bad for Muslims across the border, given all the Khans in Bollywood. Once the ripple of laughter subsided, Gayer smiled and said that the actors hogging the television aren’t really a true represenative of the opportunities that exist for the rest of the Muslims.

Once the discussion concluded, a book signing session was held.
So, Havi bhai, what's your point? What are you trying to get at? Should I also show you how your own Muslims are being treated in Pakistan? Nothing to be proud of. I suggest you guys look inward, sort out your own internal affairs and then start commenting about others. People in glass house shouldn't throw stones....
 
So, Havi bhai, what's your point? What are you trying to get at? Should I also show you how your own Muslims are being treated in Pakistan? Nothing to be proud of. I suggest you guys look inward, sort out your own internal affairs and then start commenting about others. People in glass house shouldn't throw stones....

what will be your reply if he was european/american/japanese, I am sure you have something bad to say about them too..
which means nobody should criticize others..
 
what will be your reply if he was european/american/japanese, I am sure you have something bad to say about them too..
which means nobody should criticize others..
This is not about constructive criticism! It's about destructive India-bashing. Anything to show India in poor light. And our Pakistani friends are past masters at that! Plain and simple!
 
@haviZsultan, now you say the truth.

indian Muslims have a better gdp than pakistan as a whole (per capita).
also they have better security. just conpare the no. of Muslims dying in india ans pakistan and you will know.

read this article too-
frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/islams-universal-economic-failure/

If
Romney
accomplished
nothing
else
during
his
Israeli
visit,
he
did
manage
to
offend
every
single Palestinian Arab terrorist group, all of whom, the Palestinian
Authority, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PFLP and the DFLP, issued
press releases denouncing him. American media outlets have been
denouncing him for saying that the GDP Per Capita differences
between Israel and the Palestinian Authority represent a contrast in
values.
The official media narrative is that these differences are the results
of oppression, checkpoints and blockades. But then why does the
IMF put Israel’s GDP Per Capita well ahead of the oil-rich kingdom
of Saudi Arabia?
Saudi Arabia
has no Israeli
checkpoints, no Israeli soldiers or planes flying overhead. It has
wealth literally pouring out of the ground with a fifth of the world’s
petroleum reserves. And yet the IMF puts it 13 places behind Israel
and the World Bank puts it 8 places behind Israel. The only Muslim
countries with a better GDP Per Capita than Israel are small
monarchies drowning in oil.
The non-oil Muslim countries who are closest to Israel are Malaysia
and Lebanon, 32 and 33 places behind Israel. Both countries also
have sizable non-Muslim populations. Muslims make up only 50
percent of Lebanon and only 60 percent of Malaysia. No Muslim
country without oil has a better GDP Per Capita than a Muslim
country with sizable Christian or Buddhist minorities.
What Romney didn’t mention, but should have, is that the
Palestinian Authority dealt yet another blow to its economy when it
drove out the Christian population. Christians in the territories have
traditionally made the best businessmen and the capital of the
Palestinian Authority was actually started by Jordanian Christian
refugees escaping Muslim persecution.
Israel has 1.2 Muslims inside the Green Line who account for 52
percent of its social benefits. Israel’s national unemployment rate is
5.6 percent. The Arab unemployment rate is 27 percent. Only 59
percent of Muslim men and only 19 percent of Muslim women are
officially part of the workforce. That’s compared to 56 percent of
Jewish women and 52 percent of Christian women.
The average Israeli family has double the monthly income of the
average Arab family. Half the Arab sector officially lives in poverty.
The Israeli Jewish GDP is nearly three times higher than the Arab-
Israeli GDP.
This could be blamed on the usual scapegoat of racism, but the
Israeli Arab GDP of $6,750 is actually better than the $5,900 GDP in
neighboring Jordan, the $6,540 GDP in Egypt and the $5,041 GDP in
Syria. This is the same range in which most non-oil Arab Muslim
states are grouped and it is clear that there is no escaping it without
a big petroleum reserve. Or like Lebanon with its $15,523 GDP, a
whole lot of Christians to actually work for a living.
Again culture is the determinant. Israel within the Green Line only
has about 150,000 Christians and about as many Druze, and both
groups perform better economically. Christian Arabs have a higher
employment rate and a better rate of higher education than
Muslims.
Apart from that official 1.2 million, Israel is also responsible for the
4 million in the Palestinian Authority (some of whom overlap with
that 1.2 million and some of whom are imaginary and exist only to
collect benefits from international agencies) who are still Israel’s
responsibility, according to them and to the world, even though they
also continue insisting that they want their own state.
The reason why the GDP in Palestinian areas is
so terrible is because its inhabitants live in a
giant welfare state. Palestinian Arabs were already receiving 725
dollars in per capita assistance. They don’t need an economy
because the United States and the European Union are their
economy. They don’t need a state because the UNRWA is their
state.
It’s easy to admire Israel for what it has accomplished, but it stands
out so much because of the region it’s in. Singapore and Hong Kong
are less remarkable because they are in a region where countries
don’t just give up and wait around for foreigners to come and find
oil on their land. In Asia, countries make things happen for
themselves. In the Middle East, if you’re not Jewish or Christian and
you don’t have oil, then you have economic problems.
But let’s leave the Middle East and head over to Asia. India and
Pakistan are divided by a GDP Per Capita difference of almost a
thousand dollars. India is naturally in the lead. Within India,
Muslims are at the bottom of the economic ladder. Their per capita
GDP is lower, their literacy rate is lower and they perform worse
than Hindus. And yet the average Indian Muslim annual income at
513 dollars is still higher than the average annual income in
Pakistan at 420 dollars. This remains consistent with the higher
Arab-Israeli income and lower Jordanian Arab income model
meaning that Muslims in non-Muslim countries will earn less than
the majority, but more than they would in a majority Muslim
country.
Pages: 1 2

the second page-

In Africa, Muslim Somalia sits next door to Ethiopia and Kenya and
its GDP is so small it can’t even be registered compared to $1,093
and $1,746 for them. You might try to blame Somalia’s civil war,
but Rwanda, which experienced a genocide, has a $1,341 GDP.
Niger with an 80 percent Muslim population and a $771 GDP sits
next door to Chad with only a 53 percent Muslim population and a
$1,865 GDP. Next door Cameroon has a 70 percent Christian
majority and a $2,257 GDP.
In Britain the myth of the hardworking Bangladeshi or Pakistani
storekeeper is practically sacred. In reality 70 percent of
Bangladeshis and Pakistanis live in low income households,
compared to 50 percent of Africans, 30 percent of Indians and 20
percent of the natives. Bangladeshis and Pakistanis not only have
dramatically higher unemployment rates than natives, but they have
higher unemployment rates than Africans.
If the issue were
racism, then
their unemployment rates would be in line with far lower Indian
unemployment rates. Instead Muslims have the worst economic
record in the UK. Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more
likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as
likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
Again this fits the same model of Muslims from non-Muslim
countries being less economically inept than Muslims from majority
Muslim countries. The crucial difference between minority Muslims
and majority Muslims is culture. Minority Muslims do have their
own culture, but no minority group can entirely escape the values of
the majority culture. Arab Israelis and Indian Muslims absorb
enough of the values of the majority culture to perform better than
their neighbors in Jordan or Pakistan. And they even carry on these
absorbed values when they move to another country.
We can see the direct consequences of those values in action. In the
UK, Muslims have the highest dropout rate and lack of
qualifications of any religion. They have the highest male and
female unemployment rates. This isn’t racism, this is Islamism.
Muslims have the highest unemployment rate in Ireland. In Belgium,
Moroccans and Turks have a five times higher unemployment rate
of the native population. In Australia, Muslims have twice the
unemployment rate of non-Muslims and forty percent of their
children live below the poverty line. Muslims also have the highest
unemployment rate in Canada, 14.4 percent to a national rate of 7.2
percent.
The response to all these numbers is the usual cry of racism, but
racism fails to explain why Muslims fail more comprehensively at
home than they do abroad. If Muslims fail in the West Bank, then
Israeli checkpoints are to blame. If they fail in Canada, Australia
and Europe, then racism is to blame. But if they fail in Pakistan,
Somalia and Saudi Arabia– who is to blame?
Responsibility is the missing element. It’s the character value
without which there can be no economic success. The same lack of
responsibility that manifests itself after a Muslim terrorist attack,
when Muslims rush to position themselves as the victims, rather
than dealing with the violence in their midst, also manifests itself in
the economic arena and in every aspect of life. This lack of
responsibility is a failure of values that cannot be escaped or
ascribed to racism, the occupation or the boogeyman.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
But isn't it better to accept they are at the bottom and work to bring them to a better position?

@Havi....Your statement is a fact and i feel i should accept it...But again you are presenting a fact in a different context..I will rephrase the word and let me know how do you feel about it." India consists of more than 50 crore poor people consisting of Hindus,Muslims and other minorities" .In this foroum, there is a lot of debate about why India does not accept that of course Muslims are poor. The primary reason is that poverty can not be seen with the prism of religion. Yes, individual organizations, NGO can analyze and publish about a specific aspect of it, but a nation when starts looking development,prosperity and povery with the aspect of religion, then it will be a very difficult for the administration to frame any policy or initiatives to implement it.
 
Educate a man, you educate one,

educate a woman, you educate a family.

Saeed Nagvi said that due to low literacy rate of Muslim women, the educate of the Muslim population suffers. There are other minorities like Sikhs who are 2% while Muslims are 13.5 %. But they are highly educated and earns much more. In a Facebook post, one said that Have you ever seen a Sikh beggar ? It is a simple point we fdon't notice.

They also feed people in langars and more people pay taxes than other religious groups. That's why they are successful in many fields.

Also, It depends on what is there outlook towards financial security. Most of them don't go for schooling but start a small shop or a business that limits their kids education in better schools and colleges and hence a perpetual cycle is created.
 
Education is the main factor that Christians do better than muslims here in India.. Having said that OP also need to realise that its not only Abdul Kalam or Three Khans from bollywood who do better in India, there are many millionaires here in India belongs to Muslims community.. In my home town, the largest Engineering College and largest private medical college is owned by Muslims.. India always is a fertile land for Muslims who wanted to achieve something.. Government cannot go after each and every person's welfare.. There are lots of Hindus who are much poorer than muslims. The blame lies with Muslims only for their backwardness..
 
Pakistani's should worry about their own downward progress.
Indian Muslims are lucky to not live in Pakistan today.

Mr Bozo U never seem to Amaze me on one hand you have been a staunch supporter of extremist in pakistan on the other hand you blame pakistan its like the saying goes''Ulta chor kotwal ko daante".
 
All Hindus are also not doing well in India....But All Hindus in Pakistan are doing bad...
 
Mr Bozo U never seem to Amaze me on one hand you have been a staunch supporter of extremist in pakistan on the other hand you blame pakistan its like the saying goes''Ulta chor kotwal ko daante".

I think I saw that phase of Bozo and its no more the case. He has changed. :)

Otherwise we would see him bashing Iran all the time. I don't know why people hate Shias so much here. Idiots.
 
@haviZsultan, now you say the truth.

indian Muslims have a better gdp than pakistan as a whole (per capita).
also they have better security. just conpare the no. of Muslims dying in india ans pakistan and you will know.

read this article too-
frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/islams-universal-economic-failure/

If
Romney
accomplished
nothing
else
during
his
Israeli
visit,
he
did
manage
to
offend
every
single Palestinian Arab terrorist group, all of whom, the Palestinian
Authority, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PFLP and the DFLP, issued
press releases denouncing him. American media outlets have been
denouncing him for saying that the GDP Per Capita differences
between Israel and the Palestinian Authority represent a contrast in
values.
The official media narrative is that these differences are the results
of oppression, checkpoints and blockades. But then why does the
IMF put Israel’s GDP Per Capita well ahead of the oil-rich kingdom
of Saudi Arabia?
Saudi Arabia
has no Israeli
checkpoints, no Israeli soldiers or planes flying overhead. It has
wealth literally pouring out of the ground with a fifth of the world’s
petroleum reserves. And yet the IMF puts it 13 places behind Israel
and the World Bank puts it 8 places behind Israel. The only Muslim
countries with a better GDP Per Capita than Israel are small
monarchies drowning in oil.
The non-oil Muslim countries who are closest to Israel are Malaysia
and Lebanon, 32 and 33 places behind Israel. Both countries also
have sizable non-Muslim populations. Muslims make up only 50
percent of Lebanon and only 60 percent of Malaysia. No Muslim
country without oil has a better GDP Per Capita than a Muslim
country with sizable Christian or Buddhist minorities.
What Romney didn’t mention, but should have, is that the
Palestinian Authority dealt yet another blow to its economy when it
drove out the Christian population. Christians in the territories have
traditionally made the best businessmen and the capital of the
Palestinian Authority was actually started by Jordanian Christian
refugees escaping Muslim persecution.
Israel has 1.2 Muslims inside the Green Line who account for 52
percent of its social benefits. Israel’s national unemployment rate is
5.6 percent. The Arab unemployment rate is 27 percent. Only 59
percent of Muslim men and only 19 percent of Muslim women are
officially part of the workforce. That’s compared to 56 percent of
Jewish women and 52 percent of Christian women.
The average Israeli family has double the monthly income of the
average Arab family. Half the Arab sector officially lives in poverty.
The Israeli Jewish GDP is nearly three times higher than the Arab-
Israeli GDP.
This could be blamed on the usual scapegoat of racism, but the
Israeli Arab GDP of $6,750 is actually better than the $5,900 GDP in
neighboring Jordan, the $6,540 GDP in Egypt and the $5,041 GDP in
Syria. This is the same range in which most non-oil Arab Muslim
states are grouped and it is clear that there is no escaping it without
a big petroleum reserve. Or like Lebanon with its $15,523 GDP, a
whole lot of Christians to actually work for a living.
Again culture is the determinant. Israel within the Green Line only
has about 150,000 Christians and about as many Druze, and both
groups perform better economically. Christian Arabs have a higher
employment rate and a better rate of higher education than
Muslims.
Apart from that official 1.2 million, Israel is also responsible for the
4 million in the Palestinian Authority (some of whom overlap with
that 1.2 million and some of whom are imaginary and exist only to
collect benefits from international agencies) who are still Israel’s
responsibility, according to them and to the world, even though they
also continue insisting that they want their own state.
The reason why the GDP in Palestinian areas is
so terrible is because its inhabitants live in a
giant welfare state. Palestinian Arabs were already receiving 725
dollars in per capita assistance. They don’t need an economy
because the United States and the European Union are their
economy. They don’t need a state because the UNRWA is their
state.
It’s easy to admire Israel for what it has accomplished, but it stands
out so much because of the region it’s in. Singapore and Hong Kong
are less remarkable because they are in a region where countries
don’t just give up and wait around for foreigners to come and find
oil on their land. In Asia, countries make things happen for
themselves. In the Middle East, if you’re not Jewish or Christian and
you don’t have oil, then you have economic problems.
But let’s leave the Middle East and head over to Asia. India and
Pakistan are divided by a GDP Per Capita difference of almost a
thousand dollars. India is naturally in the lead. Within India,
Muslims are at the bottom of the economic ladder. Their per capita
GDP is lower, their literacy rate is lower and they perform worse
than Hindus. And yet the average Indian Muslim annual income at
513 dollars is still higher than the average annual income in
Pakistan at 420 dollars. This remains consistent with the higher
Arab-Israeli income and lower Jordanian Arab income model
meaning that Muslims in non-Muslim countries will earn less than
the majority, but more than they would in a majority Muslim
country.
Pages: 1 2

the second page-

In Africa, Muslim Somalia sits next door to Ethiopia and Kenya and
its GDP is so small it can’t even be registered compared to $1,093
and $1,746 for them. You might try to blame Somalia’s civil war,
but Rwanda, which experienced a genocide, has a $1,341 GDP.
Niger with an 80 percent Muslim population and a $771 GDP sits
next door to Chad with only a 53 percent Muslim population and a
$1,865 GDP. Next door Cameroon has a 70 percent Christian
majority and a $2,257 GDP.
In Britain the myth of the hardworking Bangladeshi or Pakistani
storekeeper is practically sacred. In reality 70 percent of
Bangladeshis and Pakistanis live in low income households,
compared to 50 percent of Africans, 30 percent of Indians and 20
percent of the natives. Bangladeshis and Pakistanis not only have
dramatically higher unemployment rates than natives, but they have
higher unemployment rates than Africans.
If the issue were
racism, then
their unemployment rates would be in line with far lower Indian
unemployment rates. Instead Muslims have the worst economic
record in the UK. Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more
likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as
likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
Again this fits the same model of Muslims from non-Muslim
countries being less economically inept than Muslims from majority
Muslim countries. The crucial difference between minority Muslims
and majority Muslims is culture. Minority Muslims do have their
own culture, but no minority group can entirely escape the values of
the majority culture. Arab Israelis and Indian Muslims absorb
enough of the values of the majority culture to perform better than
their neighbors in Jordan or Pakistan. And they even carry on these
absorbed values when they move to another country.
We can see the direct consequences of those values in action. In the
UK, Muslims have the highest dropout rate and lack of
qualifications of any religion. They have the highest male and
female unemployment rates. This isn’t racism, this is Islamism.
Muslims have the highest unemployment rate in Ireland. In Belgium,
Moroccans and Turks have a five times higher unemployment rate
of the native population. In Australia, Muslims have twice the
unemployment rate of non-Muslims and forty percent of their
children live below the poverty line. Muslims also have the highest
unemployment rate in Canada, 14.4 percent to a national rate of 7.2
percent.
The response to all these numbers is the usual cry of racism, but
racism fails to explain why Muslims fail more comprehensively at
home than they do abroad. If Muslims fail in the West Bank, then
Israeli checkpoints are to blame. If they fail in Canada, Australia
and Europe, then racism is to blame. But if they fail in Pakistan,
Somalia and Saudi Arabia– who is to blame?
Responsibility is the missing element. It’s the character value
without which there can be no economic success. The same lack of
responsibility that manifests itself after a Muslim terrorist attack,
when Muslims rush to position themselves as the victims, rather
than dealing with the violence in their midst, also manifests itself in
the economic arena and in every aspect of life. This lack of
responsibility is a failure of values that cannot be escaped or
ascribed to racism, the occupation or the boogeyman.

That plunges with the falling value of the ruppee. Per capita income is covered in $ not ruppees. To offset this H&H took a report in Rupees. Furthermore there gdp per capita is lowest of all religions in India so there is deprivation. Why compare anyway. Lets work to solve issues with minorities in each nation.

This is just deflection. Whenever minority issues are raised deflection is made and Pakistan involved somehow.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think Consensus India is in cohoots to lower the total population of Muslims in India and they do not report the population numbers correctly for Muslims so they appear to be minority.

There were more muslims in India then Pakistan after partition and I compared the figure of Muslims figures from Pakistan vs India and Indian figures appear to be "down graded"

Perfect example by Banya's to control population and deny their rights to be in power
 
are the shia hazaras doing well in quetta?

are muslims killed in karachi doing well in Pakistan?

are muslim children killed in drone attacks in tribal areas doing better?

are muslim pastuns getting killed by Pakistani army and militants doing better?

I think Indian muslims are doing far better than Pakistani muslims by atleast not getting killed every other day...

Long live secular Indian republic....
 
KLF: ‘Just because Bollywood has 3 Khans doesn’t mean all Indian Muslims are doing well’

KARACHI:

There are Muslims across the border who choose to live in ghettos despite having heavy pockets. And it’s not because they are following the religion’s ascetic principles.

According to Laurent Gayer, a senior research fellow at the Centre National de la Rescherche Scientifique in New Delhi, Muslims in some of India’s cities choose to segregate themselves because they perceive themselves to be a part of a vulnerable minority. This is one of the very few bleak realities described in the pages of the book ‘Muslims in Indian States: Trajectories of Marginalisation’. The book, a collection of essays edited by Gayer and political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot, is packed with statistics which point to the social, political and economic plight of India’s largest minority.

A book launch was organised at the Karachi Literature Festival on Saturday during which Gayer and Dr Syed Jaffar Ahmed from Karachi University’s Pakistan Study Centre spoke about the socioeconomic difficulties faced by over 150 million Muslims living in the world’s largest democracy.

Columnist Irfan Husain, who moderated the discussion said, “The introduction of the book makes for a very depressing read,” adding that the difficulties faced by Muslims in India are a mirror image of what minorities face in Pakistan.

Ahmed’s introduction on the book’s context was brief but extremely informative. He said that given the difficulties faced by Muslims in the state, the contemporary view of India as a modern democracy was challenged, specifically in the 90s. “Secularism remains a major issue in India. If it takes a backseat, the future will be very bleak

The discussion then drifted towards the historically frigid relationship shared by Pakistan and India and whether this had any implications for Muslims living across the border. “Honestly, I just don’t know. After the Mumbai attack in 2008, there was no backlash against Muslims. Some Muslims clerics even refused to bury the attackers,” said Gayer. “I guess that there is no systematic relationship between interstate relations and marginalisation.”

During the discussion, someone blurted that things surely can’t be that bad for Muslims across the border, given all the Khans in Bollywood. Once the ripple of laughter subsided, Gayer smiled and said that the actors hogging the television aren’t really a true represenative of the opportunities that exist for the rest of the Muslims.

Once the discussion concluded, a book signing session was held.

where is the source??????????????
 

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