King Abdullah of Jordan warns of “massive conflict” if Israel proceeds with annexation

[Naofumi]

What is your ethnicity?

Urdu-speaking is itself an ethnicity. @Cliftonite @Pakistani Fighter Explain to him please.

Are you butthurt that Saudi Arabian universities, along with Israeli ones, are the best ranked in the Muslim/developing world? Don't blame me.

Why would be I? Do you know the rankings of Indian ones?

Arab Jews lived 1000 times better in the Arab world than they did in Europe. This is a well-established fact. Millions of Jews were supposedly mass-murdered in Europe and 1000's of Jewish pogroms occurred in Europe before the Holocaust. Not even remotely comparable to anything that occurred in the Arab world/Middle East. And I have interacted with many Arab Jews in person and online (even on PDF) and they will confirm what I wrote.

Better than in Europe doesn't mean no persecution, Palestine riots were happening in parallel to the rise of Hitler.
I hope you can identify the persons in this photo

Why are you trying to appropriate our two largest provinces? They are not Indian, but part and parcel of Pakistan. Commonality between all Pakistanis is due to the IVC. We are all racially related.

As a Punjabi speaker, I can tell you Punjabi (and dialects) descended from multiple sources. It is a composite language, which you guys call Prakrit. There is a heavy Farsi (or more correctly Dari) base in Punjabi, which eventually led to the same in Urdu (a related language to Punjabi.) There is heavy influence of Pukhto, Sindhi in Punjabi too.

As far as I know, Panini codified Sanskrit from diffrent dialects into an official language. He was from Warrukai Lahor in KPK.

Prakrit was descended from what we call Vedic Sanskrit and yup it was codified later, like many liturgical languages (Quranic Arabic, Biblical Hebrew etc), at least we agree on this, so next question - how Prakrit became Iranic?

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Why are you trying to appropriate our two largest provinces? They are not Indian, but part and parcel of Pakistan. Commonality between all Pakistanis is due to the IVC. We are all racially related.

As a Punjabi speaker, I can tell you Punjabi (and dialects) descended from multiple sources. It is a composite language, which you guys call Prakrit. There is a heavy Farsi base in Punjabi, which eventually lead to the same in Urdu (a related language to Punjabi.) There is heavy influence of Pukhto, Sindhi in Punjabi too.

As far as I know, Panini codified Sanskrit from diffrent dialects into an official language. He was from Warrukai Lahor in KPK.

Why even bother with a person who claims that Arab Jews who migrated to Israel, a 73 year old political invention, who share DNA, language, culture, appearance, history with their Arab Muslim and Christian brethren in said Arab countries (for instance Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, modern-day Saudi Arabia, Syria etc.) are a world apart, because they have become Israeli citizens and because they now identify as Israeli Jews as well.

This amounts to saying that Arabs born in the West are not Arabs because they were born in the West and now identity as French, Germans, Spaniards, Brits, Italians, Danes, Dutch, Belgians etc.

So no wonder that Punjabis and Sindhis = "Indians" in his very limited and ignorant worldview.

I wonder why he has not written several pages about how Palestinian Arabs and Palestinians Christians are totally different people and how "Israeli Arabs" are some unique isolated group of people with no ties to other neighboring Arabs because they are now Israeli.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

How about you stop this agenda of yours where Pakistanis (Punjabis and Sindhis) are "Indian"? India is a 73 year old creation. It was never once in history united before the Brits did it for you. You are composed of literally 100's of different ethnic groups who speak 100's of very different languages. Pakistan on the other hand is composed of mainly 4 ethnic groups, excluding the Indian Muslim arrivals and some other small minorities in the North. Your agenda is very clear.

Exactly this. We are becoming more and more monolithic day by day, and it is very upsetting to Indians.

Just in the past few years since PTI government, Pukhto words started flooding into Punjabi and Pakistani Urdu. KPK is in the seat of government, and Pukhtoonization is hitting every city in Pakistan.

 

[Naofumi]

So no wonder that Punjabis and Sindhis = "Indians" in his very limited and ignorant worldview.

I wonder why he has not written several pages about how Palestinian Arabs and Palestinians Christians are totally different people and how "Israeli Arabs" are some unique isolated group of people with no ties to other neighboring Arabs because they are now Israeli.

Can you see the irony between those two lines?

 

[Cliftonite]

What matters is that the Middle East was historically much more inclusive than most other regions of the world hence why the world's oldest minorities have remained.

Let me focus about the Arab world or Arab Near East as I am familiar with that area of the world so I am not going to talk about minorities not found in Arab countries, some of which you have just mentioned.

So I am only going to talk about Arab Christians, Arab Jews, Druze, Alawites, Cops and Maronites.

I already covered the Arab Christians. Likewise the Arab Jews.

Copts face some structural and societal challenges that the likes of brother @Gomig-21 can elaborate on in detail here but their existence, safety, livelihood is not under any threat in Egypt and they are part of every walk of life in Egypt. They have their own churches, their own Pope, own institutions etc. Legally they have the same rights as Egyptian citizens too.

Most Druze live in Southern Syria and they are an important part of Syria's mosaic. They are not any different from Arabs, just like Alawites are Arabs as well. The Alawites have ruled Syria for 4 decades (causing much harm) so I am not sure what oppression that you are blabbering about. If anything the most oppressed (recent years) community in Syria have been the Syrian Sunni Arabs. Both all this is tied to a fight for political power with tons of outside players hence the mess that is Syria today.

Maronites number 1 million people and they are a religious group, not an ethnic group. Talk of Maronite oppression in Lebanon is utter nonsense considering that they are overrepresented compared to their population and an active part of the failed Lebanese political system.

I can post testimonies of Mizrahi Jews of how 'well' they were treated in Arab lands but you'd just write it away as Zionist propaganda. It's telling that Lebanon was meant to be a haven for Maronite Christians by the French but they were forced into exile and became a minority after the Palestinian exodus of 1970. From 70% of Lebanon in 1920 to 40% now. And I know you're gonna bring up the Sabra and Shatilla massacre to discard my argument. Ask any Copt how they are treated as second class citizens in Egypt. Or better yet just see how Amazigh nationalists are treated in North Africa, given especially they are native to the land and Arabs are invaders. Ironic no? You cannot speak on the behalf of minorities unless you are one.

Btw don't worry, no one is jealous of you Arabs. Must be jarring to see a Bakistani talking smack about them mighty Arabs but I take pride in my South Asian identity. We had the Indus Valley civilisation while y'all were riding camels.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Prakrit was descended from what we call Vedic Sanskrit and yup it was codified later, like many liturgical languages (Quranic Arabic, Biblical Hebrew etc), at least we agree on this, so next question - how Prakrit became Iranic?

Punjabi has an Iranic base in Dari too. It is related to Pukhto, Sindhi, and other languages around the region where it is spoken.

I say this as a theth (pure, original) Punjabi speaker from Central Punjab. Our dialect is one of the oldest, and recognized as such by other Punjabis.

I don't really know about your terms Prakrit and Sanskrit and their nuances. I just made a frame of reference for you.

If you want to talk linguistic origins, @Talwar e Pakistan would know more.

I can post testimonies of Mizrahi Jews of how 'well' they were treated in Arab lands but you'd just write it away as Zionist propaganda. It's telling that Lebanon was meant to be a haven for Maronite Christians by the French but they were forced into exile and became a minority after the Palestinian exodus of 1970. From 70% of Lebanon in 1920 to 40% now. And I know you're gonna bring up the Sabra and Shatilla massacre to discard my argument. Ask any Copt how they are treated as second class citizens in Egypt. Or better yet just see how Amazigh nationalists are treated in North Africa, given especially they are native to the land and Arabs are invaders. Ironic no? You cannot speak on the behalf of minorities unless you are one.

Btw don't worry, no one is jealous of you Arabs. Must be jarring to see a Bakistani talking smack about them mighty Arabs but I take pride in my South Asian identity. We had the Indus Valley civilisation while y'all were riding camels.

What is your basis for making these assumptions?

I am very curious, please explain this.

 

[Naofumi]

Punjabi has an Iranic base in Dari too.

It's called vocabulary, Urdu have it too but that doesn't make Urdu an Iranic language.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Urdu-speaking is itself an ethnicity. @Cliftonite @Pakistani Fighter Explain to him please.

Why would be I? Do you know the rankings of Indian ones?

Better than in Europe doesn't mean no persecution, Palestine riots were happening in parallel to the rise of Hitler.
I hope you can identify the persons in this photo
View attachment 634150

So you are telling me that your identity is limited to a language (Urdu) that is less than 500 years old (in its modern form as spoken today) and a fusion of Arabic, Farsi, Turkic (Chagatai) loanwords, Sanskrit and other native languages? So you don't belong to an actual ethnicity? Before the Mughals (pre-1526), your community did not exist? You fell down from the sky the soon that you adopted Islam and Urdu?

No, but I know that India's rankings on most fronts are pathetically bad considering the gigantic 1.3 billion population. I know that India is home to more poor and illiterate people on the planet than anywhere else and I know that India is considered as a troublemaker by the entire neighborhood, in particular Pakistan. I also know about the backward caste system, the rapes, lynchings, communal riots and murders that you hear about in the media all the time. I also know that Muslims are severely oppressed as per reports in Modi's India.

Did I just not write that no area of the world was ever "free of persecution"? Do you know what proportionality means? Let me make it simple for you. In Europe Jews were mass-murdered in the millions and 10.000's of Jews were killed in numerous Pogroms for centuries across Europe from Russia to Spain. Compared to this reality Jews in the Arab world lived extremely well.

One only needs to do some reading. One could start with the Muslim-Jewish coexistence in Al-Andalus. Anyway enough of talk about Jews.

Hitler meeting with Al-Husseini proves what exactly? Palestinians were under attack and their lands were being stolen of course they are going to side with an empire/entity that opposes that and an entity that is not allied to the British empire.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

It's called vocabulary, Urdu have it too but that doesn't make Urdu an Iranic language.

Have you ever heard pure Urdu spoken? It is a dialect of Dari.

For example check SMQ at UN.

 

[Naofumi]

So you are telling me that your identity is limited to a language (Urdu) that is less than 500 years old (in its modern form as spoken today) and a fusion of Arabic, Farsi, Turkic (Chagatai) loanwords, Sanskrit and other native languages? So you don't belong to an actual ethnicity? Before the Mughals (pre-1526), your community did not exist? Did all Indians not belong to various castes?

My ethnicity is Indian, India is divided into states on the basis of languages (similar to Pakistan) which you can call ethnicity too, I specifically belong to Central zone (Orange color). And caste is not ehtnicity, caste is biradari which exists in Pakistan too.

 

[925boy]

''Jordan Warns'' Nice joke... israel could just crush them in 6 hours, and they know that too...

SO which enemy of Israel would Turkey be willing to step in and defend?

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

I can post testimonies of Mizrahi Jews of how 'well' they were treated in Arab lands but you'd just write it away as Zionist propaganda. It's telling that Lebanon was meant to be a haven for Maronite Christians by the French but they were forced into exile and became a minority after the Palestinian exodus of 1970. From 70% of Lebanon in 1920 to 40% now. And I know you're gonna bring up the Sabra and Shatilla massacre to discard my argument. Ask any Copt how they are treated as second class citizens in Egypt. Or better yet just see how Amazigh nationalists are treated in North Africa, given especially they are native to the land and Arabs are invaders. Ironic no? You cannot speak on the behalf of minorities unless you are one.

Btw don't worry, no one is jealous of you Arabs. Must be jarring to see a Bakistani talking smack about them mighty Arabs but I take pride in my South Asian identity. We had the Indus Valley civilisation while y'all were riding camels.

Your ignorant drivel is of no interest for me at all but I want to remind you of the fact that the Arab world is the cradle of civilization and home to the oldest recorded civilizations and cities in the world. IVC is an impressive civilization though and ironically it had very close ties with civilizations native to Arabia (Dilmun, Magan, Sumer) that predate the IVC. Many of those civilizations native to the Arab world also influenced the IVC greatly.

So come off your Arabian horse. My interaction with you has ended.

My ethnicity is Indian, India is divided into states on the basis of languages (similar to Pakistan) which you can call ethnicity too, I specifically belong to Central zone (Orange color). And caste is not ehtnicity, caste is biradari which exists in Pakistan too.
View attachment 634162

There is no such thing as an "Indian" ethnicity. Indian is a 73 year old nationality. Modern-day Indians are some of the most diverse people on the planet who belong to 100's of different ethnic groups while speaking a similarly large number of different languages.

I am afraid that you are just embarrassed that you do not know which ethnicity you belong to. Your ancestors were most likely low caste Hindus who converted to Islam to leave the oppressive dynamic of Hindu society of the time. I have read scholarly work that talk about how most Indian Muslim converts are converts from the lowest castes in Northern India.

My ethnicity is Indian, India is divided into states on the basis of languages (similar to Pakistan) which you can call ethnicity too, I specifically belong to Central zone (Orange color). And caste is not ehtnicity, caste is biradari which exists in Pakistan too.
View attachment 634162

Do you think that I am completely unfamiliar with South Asia? Your map shows the prevalence of languages spoken. In that orange area, 100's of different ethnic groups and languages are spoken.

 

[Naofumi]

No, but I know that India's rankings on most fronts are pathetically bad considering the gigantic 1.3 billion population. I know that India is home to more poor and illiterate people on the planet than anywhere else and I know that India is considered as a troublemaker by the entire neighborhood, in particular Pakistan. I also know about the backward caste system, the rapes, lynchings, communal riots and murders that you hear about in the media all the time. I also know that Muslims are severely oppressed as per reports in Modi's India.

Look, IITs, IIMs and NITs are one of the finest institutions and yup my country is far from perfect but I don't claim it to be perfect like you.

Have you ever heard pure Urdu spoken? It is a dialect of Dari.

Urdu is a dialect or Dari? Since when?

As both registers are composed of the same Indo-Aryan vocabulary base,[15][16] colloquial Urdu is largely mutually intelligible with colloquial Hindi,[17] with the two registers being grouped together as Hindustani or Hindi-Urdu.[18][19][11][12] With respect to literary vocabulary, however, formal Urdu draws heavily from Persian vocabulary and requires knowledge of some simple Persian grammatical structures,[20] while formal Hindi heavily draws from Sanskrit for its formal and technical vocabulary.[20]

Indo-Aryan, you can bring your counter please?

 

[Cliftonite]

Your ignorant drivel is of no interest for me at all but I want to remind you of the fact that the Arab world is the cradle of civilization and home to the oldest recorded civilizations and cities in the world. IVC is an impressive civilization though and ironically it had very close ties with civilizations native to Arabia (Dilmun, Magan, Sumer) that predate the IVC. Many of those civilizations native to the Arab world also influenced the IVC greatly.

So come off your Arabian horse. My interaction with you has ended.

Way to co-opt our civilisation. Make a small correction. The Arab peninsula was never the cradle of civilisation. It was Mesopotamia and Egypt, inhabited by Babylonians, Sumerians abd Egyptians. IVC has never had any Arab component. The closest it has had is some relation to Elam, which is ofcourse Persian and your sworn enemy.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

My ethnicity is Indian, India is divided into states on the basis of languages (similar to Pakistan) which you can call ethnicity too, I specifically belong to Central zone (Orange color). And caste is not ehtnicity, caste is biradari which exists in Pakistan too.
View attachment 634162

Some historical inaccuracies, but a good read.

The Muslim rule had a deep impact on the language of Punjab by whatever name you call it. What we know as contemporary Punjabi is the product of socio-cultural and religious interaction between the locals and new comers. We find Natha poetry of the Natha Order in the tenth and eleventh centuries, vocabulary of which now sounds unfamiliar and archaic.


Immediately after the Natha poetry, we come across the religious literature of Ismaili Shiites of Multan in the form of hymns called Ginan. The Ginans are a kind of bridge between the Natha compositions and contemporary Punjabi, showing the language in transition. They have indigenous words as well as borrowings from the Arabic and the Persian.


During the Ghazni rule, Mas’ud sa’d Salmon, born in Lahore in the 11th century, wrote his poetry both in Persian and Hindavi (the Punjabi). He loved Hindavi as much as he loved Lahore. His much referred to Hindavi poetry unfortunately seems to have been lost.


A phenomenal figure who transformed the literary and cultural course in Punjab was Fariduddin Mas’ud, fondly called Baba Farid Shakarganj, a highly revered saint of the Chishti Sufi order. He was born in 12th century in Kothewal, Multan.


Though schooled in Arabic and Persian as was the tradition, he chose local language, his mother tongue as a medium of poetic expression which not only set the precedent to be followed by the later classical Punjabi poets and writers but also laid the foundation of contemporary Punjabi.​

https://www.dawn.com/news/787859/language-the-rise-of-the-persian-and-the-early-punjabi