What's new

King Abdullah of Jordan warns of “massive conflict” if Israel proceeds with annexation

Yet you are the one that has been insulting Arabs throughout the debate (everyone can see your most recent posts) while I have solely sticked to a scholarly debate and debunked your nonsense claims. The sole even remote "insult" that I wrote, which is not an insult, was the factual statement of many Hindu converts to Islam during the Mughal empire being oppressed low caste Hindus. I can quote scholarly works that support this claim and I have read discussions about this topic on PDF before.
I have quoted scholar works too, you can look above. Seriously, inbreeding is dangerous in long term.
And here's the official breakdown in the last survey :-
You can google what the term means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio_Economic_and_Caste_Census_2011
Screenshot (317).png
 
.
I have quoted scholar works too, you can look above. Seriously, inbreeding is dangerous in long term.
And here's the official breakdown in the last survey :-
You can google what the term means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio_Economic_and_Caste_Census_2011
View attachment 634195

Your not so distant ancestors were Hindu converts to Islam, most likely low caste converts like most North Indian Muslims are.

The caste system is tied to Hinduism not Islam so your statistic is of no importance to my point.

Why are many Indian Muslims seen as untouchable?
soutikbiswas.png

Soutik BiswasDelhi correspondent

10 May 2016


_89637683_gettyimages-73481626.jpg
copyrightAFP
Untouchability among Muslims is rarely discussed
Untouchability is worse than slavery, said Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar, one of India's greatest statesmen and the undisputed leader of the country's Dalits.

Dalits (formerly known as untouchables) are some of the republic's most wretched citizens because of an unforgiving Hindu caste hierarchy that condemns them to the bottom of the heap.

Although untouchability among Hindus is widely documented and debated, its existence among India's Muslims is rarely discussed.

One reason possibly is that Islam does not recognise caste, and promotes equality and egalitarianism.

Most of India's 140 million Muslims are descended from local converts. Many of them converted to Islam to escape Hindu upper-caste oppression.


'Lived reality'
Their descendants form the overwhelming majority - 75% - of the present Indian Muslim population, and they are called the Dalit Muslims, according to Ejaz Ali, leader of an organisation representing socially disadvantaged Muslims.

"But caste and untouchability is a lived reality for Muslims living in India and South Asia," Dr Aftab Alam, a political scientist who has worked on the subject, told me. "And untouchability is the community's worst-kept secret."

Studies have claimed that "concepts of purity and impurity; clean and unclean castes" do exist among Muslims groups.

_89637598_89637597.jpg
Image copyrightAP
Image captionMost of India's 140 million Muslims are descended from local converts
_89637678_gettyimages-150087869.jpg
Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionMany believe that Dalit Muslims - and Christians - deserve affirmative action benefits like their Hindu counterparts
A book by Ali Anwar says while Dalits are called asprishya (untouchable) in Hindu society, they are called arzal (inferior) among the Muslims. A 2009 study by Dr Alam found there was not a single "Dalit Muslim" in any of the prominent Muslim organisations, which were dominated essentially by four "upper-caste" Muslim groups.

Now a major study - possibly the first its kind - by a group of researchers reveals that the scourge of untouchability is alive and well among Indian Muslims.


Prashant K Trivedi, Srinivas Goli, Fahimuddin and Surinder Kumar polled more than 7,000 households across 14 districts between October 2014 and April 2015 in the populous northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh.

'Food from different plates'
Some of their findings include:

  • A substantial proportion of the "Dalit Muslims" report that they do not receive an invitation from non-Dalits for wedding feasts, possibly because of a history of social segregation.
  • A section of "Dalit Muslims" testify that they are seated separately in non-Dalit Muslim feasts. Almost a similar proportion of respondents confirm that they eat after the upper-caste people have finished. Many say they are served food on different plates.
  • Around 8% of "Dalit Muslim" respondents report that their children are seated in separate rows in classes and also during school lunches.
  • At least a third of them state that they are not allowed to bury their dead in an "upper-caste" burial ground. They do so either in some other place or in one corner of the main ground.
  • Most of the Muslims offer prayers in the same mosque, but in some places "Dalit Muslims" felt discriminated against in the main mosque.
  • A significant section of "Dalit Muslims" also feel that their community is seen as being associated with menial jobs.
  • When "Dalit Muslim" respondents were requested to share their experiences inside homes of upper-caste Hindus and Muslims, around 13% of them reported having received food/water in different utensils in "upper-caste" Muslim houses. This proportion is close to 46% in the case of upper-caste Hindu homes.
  • Similarly, around a fifth of respondents felt that upper-caste Muslims maintained a distance from them, and a quarter of "Dalit Muslims" went through similar experiences with upper-caste Hindus.
Caste-related prejudices are found among all religious communities - including Sikhs - in India. Parsis are possibly an exception.

"But a belief that caste is a Hindu phenomenon since caste system derives legitimacy from Hindu religious texts, has dominated thinking of governments and academia since the colonial period," says Prashant K Trivedi.

So he and his co-researchers believe that "Dalit Muslims" - and Christians - deserve affirmative action benefits like their Hindu outcaste counterparts.

The moral of the story: you can try to leave caste in India, but caste refuses to leave you.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-36220329

Nice try, buddy. You failed. Once again. Stick to claiming an "Indian ethnicity" (LOL), an "Urdu speaking ethnicity" (LOL), claiming that a Yemeni Jew that now lives in Israel is different (other than passport and religion) from a Muslim Yemeni and that Pakistani Punjabis and Sindhis are "Indians".:lol:
 
Last edited:
.
Your not so distant ancestors were Hindu converts to Islam, most likely low caste converts like most North Indian Muslims are.

The caste system is tied to Hinduism not Islam so your statistic is of no importance to my point.

Why are many Indian Muslims seen as untouchable?
soutikbiswas.png

Soutik BiswasDelhi correspondent

10 May 2016


_89637683_gettyimages-73481626.jpg
copyrightAFP
Untouchability among Muslims is rarely discussed
Untouchability is worse than slavery, said Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar, one of India's greatest statesmen and the undisputed leader of the country's Dalits.

Dalits (formerly known as untouchables) are some of the republic's most wretched citizens because of an unforgiving Hindu caste hierarchy that condemns them to the bottom of the heap.

Although untouchability among Hindus is widely documented and debated, its existence among India's Muslims is rarely discussed.

One reason possibly is that Islam does not recognise caste, and promotes equality and egalitarianism.

Most of India's 140 million Muslims are descended from local converts. Many of them converted to Islam to escape Hindu upper-caste oppression.


'Lived reality'
Their descendants form the overwhelming majority - 75% - of the present Indian Muslim population, and they are called the Dalit Muslims, according to Ejaz Ali, leader of an organisation representing socially disadvantaged Muslims.

"But caste and untouchability is a lived reality for Muslims living in India and South Asia," Dr Aftab Alam, a political scientist who has worked on the subject, told me. "And untouchability is the community's worst-kept secret."

Studies have claimed that "concepts of purity and impurity; clean and unclean castes" do exist among Muslims groups.

_89637598_89637597.jpg
Image copyrightAP
Image captionMost of India's 140 million Muslims are descended from local converts
_89637678_gettyimages-150087869.jpg
Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionMany believe that Dalit Muslims - and Christians - deserve affirmative action benefits like their Hindu counterparts
A book by Ali Anwar says while Dalits are called asprishya (untouchable) in Hindu society, they are called arzal (inferior) among the Muslims. A 2009 study by Dr Alam found there was not a single "Dalit Muslim" in any of the prominent Muslim organisations, which were dominated essentially by four "upper-caste" Muslim groups.

Now a major study - possibly the first its kind - by a group of researchers reveals that the scourge of untouchability is alive and well among Indian Muslims.

Prashant K Trivedi, Srinivas Goli, Fahimuddin and Surinder Kumar polled more than 7,000 households across 14 districts between October 2014 and April 2015 in the populous northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh.

'Food from different plates'
Some of their findings include:

  • A substantial proportion of the "Dalit Muslims" report that they do not receive an invitation from non-Dalits for wedding feasts, possibly because of a history of social segregation.
  • A section of "Dalit Muslims" testify that they are seated separately in non-Dalit Muslim feasts. Almost a similar proportion of respondents confirm that they eat after the upper-caste people have finished. Many say they are served food on different plates.
  • Around 8% of "Dalit Muslim" respondents report that their children are seated in separate rows in classes and also during school lunches.
  • At least a third of them state that they are not allowed to bury their dead in an "upper-caste" burial ground. They do so either in some other place or in one corner of the main ground.
  • Most of the Muslims offer prayers in the same mosque, but in some places "Dalit Muslims" felt discriminated against in the main mosque.
  • A significant section of "Dalit Muslims" also feel that their community is seen as being associated with menial jobs.
  • When "Dalit Muslim" respondents were requested to share their experiences inside homes of upper-caste Hindus and Muslims, around 13% of them reported having received food/water in different utensils in "upper-caste" Muslim houses. This proportion is close to 46% in the case of upper-caste Hindu homes.
  • Similarly, around a fifth of respondents felt that upper-caste Muslims maintained a distance from them, and a quarter of "Dalit Muslims" went through similar experiences with upper-caste Hindus.
Caste-related prejudices are found among all religious communities - including Sikhs - in India. Parsis are possibly an exception.

"But a belief that caste is a Hindu phenomenon since caste system derives legitimacy from Hindu religious texts, has dominated thinking of governments and academia since the colonial period," says Prashant K Trivedi.

So he and his co-researchers believe that "Dalit Muslims" - and Christians - deserve affirmative action benefits like their Hindu outcaste counterparts.

The moral of the story: you can try to leave caste in India, but caste refuses to leave you.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-36220329

Nice try, buddy. You failed. Once again.
Even if they're (75%), why that matters? No comments on your inbreeding though.

PS : Same blood Mizrahis keep kicking your *** though.
 
Last edited:
.
@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

From what I have read about this topic and my interaction with Pakistanis and Indians, there is no such thing as an "Urdu ethnicity" as @Naofumi is falsely claiming. For instance after speaking with some Pakistani users about this topic, in connection to another topic about Arabs in Deccan, Gujarat and Hyderabad etc., I was told by them that the Urdu-speaking Mohajirs of Pakistan have a very varied origin. Spanning from the Deccan, Bihar and many other areas of India. By no means where they ever an "ethnic group", more of a Muslim community that spoke/adopted Urdu.

I would appreciate if you could elaborate on that and explain why this individual is trying to turn Punjabis and Sindhis into "Indians".

You are right. Indians have been to trying since 1947 refute the reality of Pakistan as a state.

They engaged in massacres to change demographics in East Punjab, Jammu, and South Kashmir. Flooded Ladakh with Tibetan refugees to dilute Muslim power. They have tried war, and failed to make any progress, except for their cousins in BD. For decades, British and Indian historians published papers to disprove Pakistani people as an independent civilization. India shamelessly stole our heritage and marketed it off to the world.

They convinced Iranians and some Arabs that they are Indus of old, which is simply not true, and went as far as to claim Muslim empires' architectural wonders as their own. While at home they rubbish Islamic history.

This is historical theft akin to FYRM stealing Macedonia's name and heritage.

Pakistan should take India to the UN over this issue.
 
. .
AMMAN--King Abdullah II of Jordan warned that Israel’s annexation of parts of the West Bank could lead to “a massive conflict” between his country and the Jewish state and did not exclude the possibility of suspension of Jordan’s 1994 peace treaty with Israel if it proceeds with annexation.

“If Israel really annexed the West Bank in July, it would lead to a massive conflict with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan,” he told German magazine Der Spiegel Friday.

After the formation of a unity government, Israel could start July 1 a process of annexation of Palestinian occupied territories as part of the US peace plan which allows it to annex about one third of the West Bank and have full control of Jerusalem.

Asked if that would mean suspension of the peace treaty with Israel, King Abdullah replied, “I don’t want to make threats and create an atmosphere of loggerheads, but we are considering all options.”

With Egypt, Jordan is only one of two Arab countries to have formal peace treaties with Israel.

US secretary of state Mike Pompeo, who visited Israel May 13, seemed more cautious than in the past about green-lighting Israel’s annexation designs saying he discussed with Israeli prime minister Benyamin Netanyahu “how to act with various relevant stakeholders” within the US “vision for peace.”

King Abdullah cautioned that “leaders who advocate a one-state solution do not understand what that would mean. What would happen if the Palestinian National Authority collapsed? There would be more chaos and extremism in the region,” he said.

The Jordanian monarch added that the notion of a “one-state solution” is rejected by all member-states in Arab League meetings. “The two-state solution is the only way for us to be able to move forward,” he stressed.

He said his country agreed with Europe and the rest of the international community that “the law of strength should not apply in the Middle East.”

He also questioned the timing of the annexation debate. “Is now, in the midst of the Corona pandemic, really the time to discuss whether we want a one- or two-state solution for Israel and Palestine? Or should we be discussing how we can fight the pandemic together?” he asked.

Various Arab countries as well as the European Union have warned in recent days against the adverse fallout of Israeli annexation moves on peace and security in the region and the world.

https://thearabweekly.com/king-abdullah-jordan-warns-massive-conflict-if-israel-proceeds-annexation
lol! at the warning .. lip service
 
. .
The protests are useless though considering what can be won from them.

They will succeed in making a leader resign, that's about all that can happen. The system and constitution will not be removed. In Iraq leaders come and go all the time. Protesters are always targeting certain prime minister (designates) in Iraq whilst failing to accept that these figures do not hold absolute power.

I wouldn't lose my life to make someone (Abdul Mahdi) resign a few years earlier, as he was already on his way out. They were way too emotional without realizing it won't change anything. You saying 'let them die' is once again very easy whilst you drive to 7/11 an hour later.

Hopefully the protests die down fully.

You always had a leaning towards Iran, I'm done with you.

Oh dear, alright...

Iran is not doing nearly enough to adress the Sunni/Shia shism at the level of teachings and schools of thought. It can do alot to curb the enmity towards key islamic historical figures like Abu-bakr, Umar, prophets wife Aisha whom are revered by Sunnis yet we see many Shia disrespect them openly causing great enmity.

Iran can try but isnt, because a united independent Iraq is not exactly in Iran's interest.

Satisfied now ?

Not sure what this is supposed to do but point stands you never criticized any of Iranian regimes policies.
 
.
My last post on the subject, due to being off topic.

sBTSPde.jpg


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/regions-of-south-asia.523304/

Golden thread from 2017 by our great member, Indus Pakistan
Gosh this map says it all. Perfect.

Nice try, buddy. You failed. Once again. Stick to claiming an "Indian ethnicity" (LOL), an "Urdu speaking ethnicity" (LOL), claiming that a Yemeni Jew that now lives in Israel is different (other than passport and religion) from a Muslim Yemeni and that Pakistani Punjabis and Sindhis are "Indians".:lol:
Yep. Nailed it. This cuts deep.
 
.
SO which enemy of Israel would Turkey be willing to step in and defend?
We are not arab king's babysitters. So, I would say only our friend nations. In other words, only the nations who were and will be loyal to us, not todays arab kingdoms.
 
. .
You should publish this as academic paper(s), let's see of it stand up to peer-review.

You will see a shift in thinking of historians, already geneticists are referring to us as Central Asia- South, US calling us AfPak region, Pakistan is in major change now and we are charting a new destiny. As excavations and discoveries arise, so too collapse will your historical theft of our culture.

You cannot erase the reality that Indus is in Pakistan, and the descendants of IVC are Pakistanis (by and large.) Stop claiming an alien culture as you own.
 
Last edited:
.
You will see a shift in thinking of historians, already geneticists are referring to us as Central Asia- South, US calling us AfPak region, Pakistan is in major change now and we are charting a new destiny. As excavations and discoveries arise, so too will the false notion collapse of your historical theft of our culture.

You cannot erase the reality that Indus is in Pakistan, and the descendants of IVC are Pakistanis (by and large.) Stop claiming an alien culture as you own.
I have already said, I don't. I was initially perplexed but as you say Punjabi is actually Dari and Pukhto, it's fine then.
 
.
I have already said, I don't. I was initially perplexed but as you say Punjabi is actually Dari and Pukhto, it's fine then.

I didn't say that.

Carry on with your Indian jihad against Pakistanis.

I am not going to derail the thread anymore.
 
.
caste is biradari which exists in Pakistan too.

The British had integrated the Biradari/Qabaila system into their institutionalized caste system when they invaded and annexed Punjab and Sindh in the 1840's - but they are not at all related and are both completely different social structures.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom