Kicking myself after watching this show

[DaRk WaVe]

yeah and you noticed lately what most of the time you type here??

let me tell ya, rubbish, garbage, rants, baseless talk..

Thank You, you have all the right to disagree with me & my BS

Any other title you want to give me?

 

[Al-zakir]

i know this guy personally

You mean he is your hang out boddy. Lucky you....

What's his background?

 

[TechLahore]

As I mentioned in my post, I was expecting such remarks. Anybody who comes out in the public sphere and says something deserves criticism. In this case, he spews venom and wikipeda-youtube-knowledge as "research" and can't control the NWO outbursts in a debate on "conservatism" both social and political. I bet he cannot understand what economic conservatism means.

But to be fair, my friend, in your posts of Hoodbhoy articles and such-like, you always ask people to refrain from attacking the "messenger" and focus only on the message. If a n (inactive) Physicist can pretend to be a social scientist, why pick on the poor musician for falling prey to the same pretense?

I don't think you are being true to your own position in this case.

 

[Kompromat]

His views have received their fair share of criticism. There are somethings you cannot control and that includes the fact that I, like many others, cannot control voicing anger, speechlessness and annoyance at a certain event such as this one.

I should receive my fair share of criticism and can accept that happily.

Well i agree that Ali Azmat is not well suited for such a role though he reserves every right to express his opinion as he is as much Pakistani as we are.

The only issue with the debate i have noticed is that it was derailed and nothing else.

If Ali Azmat thinks that all BS being spread in the streets of Pakistan is because of Builder burg group then he is exposing himself to such criticism because BBG leaves no marks & no proofs so Ali Azmat has got none which does not makes his point 100% invalid but its not trust worthy either at the same time.

Bilderberg Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan is at war not just with TTP but with external factors , those who always have wanted to harm Pakistan-4th generation war against us is on its full swing - Economic-political-Military-social and all other segments of the society and the system has been paralyzed.

If someone thinks that there is NO external factors in this situation then they must answer me that who in Pakistan is funding TTP to fight Pakistan army , Funding Pakistan Army to fight TTP and Assassinating all those who tried to mediate and bring peace between Pakistan and TTP ie Khalid Khwaja ?


They fund them to fight us and fund us to fight them and kill all of those people who try to mediate and cool things down- seems like a nice plan to me

* Operation Blue Tulsi is Not a myth i have people who's credibility on this matter is unquestionable and they have endorsed it as they were involved in defense and decision making process to counter it.

PM me if you want some details.

 

[sparklingway]

If someone thinks that there is NO external factors in then they must answer me that who is Pakistan funding TTP to fight Pakistan army , Funding Pakistan Army to fight TTP and Assassinating all those who tried to mediate and bring peace between Pakistan and TTP ie Khalid Khwaja ?

I have never met anybody who refuses to accept at least some level of external support. But that is the point. There's some level of external support, both political and economic to these terror groups but it isn't as if they are out rightly being controlled or funded by "foreign powers". To deny the support from external factors is being naive and idiotic, to label everything as external support is delusional and hopeless.

The guys who escape from the City Courts Karachi a couple of days back were arrested for committing three bank robberies not terrorism charges but they were robbing banks for the terror outfits. Terrorist groups across the world have relied on extortion (kidnapping fro ransom), bank robberies and drug trade for their financial backing. Remember the TTP guys caught in Bahawalpur? Convicted in 4 bank robberies and 3 kidnapping-for-ransom. This is how they get the money besides the external resources.

As I said, everything is not "foreign propaganda". The local terror outfits are using crime to fund their activities as well.

* Operation Blue Tulsi is Not a myth i have people who's credibility on this matter is unquestionable and they have endorsed it as they were involved in defense and decision making process to counter it.

PM me if you want some details.

It cannot be, in any possible way, a chartered plan that never changed from its very inception. That is the point. You cannot plan the world twenty years ahead. You can claim that certain events and actions have been orchestrated under a certain plan for a certain group/party and that can be a part of a wider plan, but imagining as if it was planned 20 years ago, executed perfectly without any change regardless of the ever-changing ground political situation, labeling it with a stupid name and chain mailing it is extremely hopeless.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

If someone thinks that there is NO external factors in then they must answer me that who is Pakistan funding TTP to fight Pakistan army , Funding Pakistan Army to fight TTP and Assassinating all those who tried to mediate and bring peace between Pakistan and TTP ie Khalid Khwaja ?

I don't know why but the people of Pakistan completely ignore the involvement of Wahabai Ideology & the petro-dollars been pumped into this ideological & phyical massacre of ours, I don't see any one talking about our so called 'Muslim brother' been involved in the finances

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2006_rpt/hpsci0606.pdf

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL32499.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/middleeast/24saudi.html

Saudis faulted for funding terror - Los Angeles Times

 

[sparklingway]

But to be fair, my friend, in your posts of Hoodbhoy articles and such-like, you always ask people to refrain from attacking the "messenger" and focus only on the message. If a n (inactive) Physicist can pretend to be a social scientist, why pick on the poor musician for falling prey to the same pretense?

I don't think you are being true to your own position in this case.

Yeah, I see some level of hypocrisy and affirmation bias from my side. You cannot rule that out. I accept that gladly (rather shamefully).

As for my defense, Hoodbhoy has been writing on social issues since his undergraduate days and his views and arguments, as hollow as they may be, have some credibility and thought put into them rather than the ramblings of a musician who clearly is lost. To put Hoodbhoy and Ali Azmat in the same pot, would be grave injustice. To put my freind kalakawa, whose rant I posted, with Ali Azmat would be acceptable (only to a certain as he's fairly rational). To put Aasim Sajjad in the same debate with Ali Azmat is the height of injustice.

PS:- Hoodbhoy isn't inactive. He has been publishing lately as well but since he became the HoD at QAU, things have slowed down a bit.

 

[Kompromat]

@ Sparklingway :

While discussing the Terror funders we need to consider that they are being funded consistently like they are on a "payroll" , bank robberies are not a phenomenon though they do happen and i do agree with you at this point that the robbers usually take this money to support their terror acts but this way of income is inconsistent.

TTP is being funded by multiple funders , i would only refrain myself by naming any ie whabis or whoever as i dont think that some biased and hate creating western Media reports can tell the truth , these reports are just a tool to pressure the govts and get them to do what you want them to do or at least put them in panic and get them to do some arrests though false ones but they are enough to prove the BS narrated in the earlier document .

We also need to consider The level of Terrorist Training and how do they get to use sophisticated IED's and suicide vests ?

You get someone from a rock licking background and ask him to use such a device wont work as they are too dumb to use them rather you need experts to train them in such matters which is the real issue in whole terror thing in Pakistan.

 

[sparklingway]

@ Sparklingway :

While discussing the Terror funders we need to consider that they are being funded consistently like they are on a "payroll" , bank robberies are not a phenomenon though they do happen and i do agree with you at this point that the robbers usually take this money to support their terror acts but this way of income is inconsistent.

Do you think that the recent surge of kidnappings in Karachi and Quetta are based on political reasons only? Kidnapping apolitical businessmen and industrialists isn't normal for the average kidnapping gangs. Similarly, bank robberies have surged and everybody in the CID and SIU will tell you that the money in finding its way to the TTP and LI.

It is not an inconsistent source of income if you engage local criminal groups and provide them with the necessary resources (these groups of course have the financial and material resources unavailable to small time criminal gangs).

TTP is being funded by multiple funders , i would only refrain myself by naming any ie whabis or whoever as i dont think that some biased and hate creating western Media reports can tell the truth , these reports are just a tool to pressure the govts and get them to do what you want them to do or at least put them in panic and get them to do some arrests though false ones but they are enough to prove the BS narrated in the earlier document .

Hardly anybody is willing to accept in Pakistan that money from Saudi Arabia finds its way to the TTP, directly or indirectly through multiple madrassas. Except India and/or Israel, you seem to have closed your mind as well. The Saudi allegations have been real since forever. The financial routes might never been closed.

We also need to consider The level of Terrorist Training and how do they get to use sophisticated IED's and suicide vests ?

Who gave training to the IRA or the ETA? Hezbollah?

Nobody helped the local fighting groups in Iraq in preparing IEDs and the Palestinians in preparing suicide vests. (in a generalized way)

The training camps are clearly being run by the offsprings (not genetic but ideological) of the Taliban, whom we proudly trained. Trained and highly experienced fighters train another group and the chain continues.

Forgotten this?

 

[Wounded Healer]

Perched atop a mountain of bullshit so high it makes cows everywhere blush for their digestive shortcomings, Zaid Hamid is a legend. I’m glad that his cynical plan of self promotion is working so well, since you are the highest profile dropping on which Zaid Hamid rests his behind.

......................

Very nicely said, my appreciation for your friend Sparklingway.

Quite rightly describes the statements being made nowadays.

regards,

 

[TechLahore]

^^ Don't want to continue this, but let me tell you that while Ali Azmat might be lost despite good intentions, some claim Hoodbhoy is lost for the wrong reasons.

 

[sparklingway]

^^ Don't want to continue this, but let me tell you that while Ali Azmat might be lost despite good intentions, some claim Hoodbhoy is lost for the wrong reasons.

Didn't get what you were trying to say. Are you referring to the "agent" labels spewing from rightwing delusionals? I know you're way better than that.

 

[Wounded Healer]

^^ Don't want to continue this, but let me tell you that while Ali Azmat might be lost despite good intentions, some claim Hoodbhoy is lost for the wrong reasons.

That might be true, but we are not discussing Hoodbhoy here.

I am just commenting on what i think of these self-proclaimed scholars, and that includes majority of the people you see giving their views on live t.v.

regards,

p.s. they are all the same to me anyway.

 

[TechLahore]

Didn't get what you were trying to say. Are you referring to the "agent" labels spewing from rightwing delusionals? I know you're way better than that.

How well do you know him?

 

[sparklingway]

How well do you know him?

Not a personal friendship. Have met him and discussed with him issues more than often to know the person though. The normal accusations come from his constant rants about Saudization which I agree are over the top and his anti-nuclear activism, the crown jewels of our country. He stands as a peace activist and for a nuclear free South Asia. Most people seem unable to comprehend how one can be against our crown jewels.

I cannot claim to know his intentions but he has done more than what millions of Pakistanis do combined. Academic contributions, social activism and through Mashal has been publishing quality books on all subjects in Urdu, something no even the Muqtadra Qaumi Zabaan is doing.

I find the accusations nothing more than the normal "agent", "traitor" labels that emanate from the right wing. You might be in know of something special, otherwise I'd never imagine you asking these questions.