Kejriwal's Vision For India-From What he says in his book 'Swaraj'

[Puchtoon]

Some patience bhai. I am replying to many posts simultaneously.
I agree mohalla sabhas may be impractical in a city, only because most city people dont care about administration. If they are well off, they don't want to be bothered. I don't agree with everything Kejriwal thinks about. But the devolution of powers is something we need urgently. Otherwise everyone will blame some unknown entity for their problems with no route to solution.

Devaluation of power should be good but giving unprecedented powers to such institution which is not really an institution but gathering of people can be disastrous. what should be done is that people's voice should be heard,MLA reforms should take place,we have technology why don't use that then these dangerous views?

 

[arp2041]

It's subjective of course, but I feel that a system that doesn't work is extremely dangerous.

More people died in the famine of the Great Leap Forward than in the Cultural revolution.

At the end of the day, fundamental communist principles like "no private property", "state ownership of everything", and "no social classes" are impractical to the point of lunacy.

Anarchists and Communists are not really that far apart on the political spectrum, they are both left-wing extremists. Both are based on completely unrealistic principles. You can call it idealism, I prefer to think of it as delusion.

I don't like right-wing extremists either. I am a centrist, I like the "Middle Path" (中道).

I have to say that i hated Communists, but in front of the new Political Philosophy that Mr. Kejriwal has brought - Anarchism, even Communists look angels.

The only thing this man knows is doing Dharnas (when he is the CM himself), giving threats like No Lokpal, i will resign.

I ask Indian members here, isn't this the same thing what Mr. Bush used to say - Either you are with us, or against us! ???

 

[Puchtoon]

I have to say that i hated Communists, but in front of the new Political Philosophy that Mr. Kejriwal has brought - Anarchism, even Communists look angels.

The only thing this man knows is doing Dharnas (when he is the CM himself), giving threats like No Lokpal, i will resign.

I ask Indian members here, isn't this the same thing what Mr. Bush used to say - Either you are with us, or against us! ???

Because his agenda is not that ,He and his Party repeatedly say they want swaraj

and this books explains swaraj

 

[rubyjackass]

Devaluation of power should be good but giving unprecedented powers to such institution which is not really an institution but gathering of people can be disastrous. what should be done is that people's voice should be heard,MLA reforms should take place,we have technology why don't use that then these dangerous views?

You are just afraid of dissent. You want to see a single window transaction everywhere. Everyone should be nod their head or simply get out of the way. This is the reason for the discontent in public today. One of the reasons why people prefer a corrupt leader over a better candidate is that the corrupt guy can get more funds from the higher ups using his influence. So they are fine with a corrupt MLA. Nothing will change until people start taking part in governance. Otherwise there will be a persistent need to beg the higher levels of governance for funds for small things like school teachers for a village. And people will rather elect a corrupt powerful guy rather than an honest and better administrator.

 

[Puchtoon]

You are just afraid of dissent. You want to see a single window transaction everywhere. Everyone should be nod their head or simply get out of the way. This is the reason for the discontent in public today. One of the reasons why people prefer a corrupt leader over a better candidate is that the corrupt guy can get more funds from the higher ups using his influence. So they are fine with a corrupt MLA. Nothing will change until people start taking part in governance. Otherwise there will be a persistent need to beg the higher levels of governance for funds for small things like school teachers for a village. And people will rather elect a corrupt powerful guy rather than an honest and better administrator.

No the reason of discontent in people is because the all classes are unhappy today ,wide gap between classes was high even in 2009 ,why were there no such discontent ?

Because the chattering classes were happy,jobs were there ,upper classes were making money ,no such thing now,a deep negative mindset has taken over.People now have doubts over the india story .

The solution is not mobs running amok after black ladies to collect urine samples ,manufacturing sector has to be the main focus ,atleast we have to bring Per capita income to 20000-30000 RS per month .

If you take all powers from representatives ,what is the need of assembly ? what is the need of even rajya sabha or lok sabha ?

Are we living in some 18th century village were masses will decide and order vigilante justice ? I'mean any sensible guy can think and say that there is no such method for this madness .

We don't want our society to become mobsters ,let them compete with rest of the world and live life happily .

 

[rubyjackass]

No the reason of discontent in people is because the all classes are unhappy today ,wide gap between classes was high even in 2009 ,why were there no such discontent ?

The discontent has always been there. You are talking about the frustration with the Congress which has reached unprecedented levels.

If you take all powers from representatives ,what is the need of assembly ? what is the need of even rajya sabha or lok sabha ?

There is a lot of government which needs to be taken care of. If schools are taken care of by villages, State governments can then concentrate on improving state universities. Right now there are so many matters before an education minister, there is no way to focus on all schools in all villages and towns. That is why the solution should be to give resposibility to people who are affected and who care, the local bodies.

We have seen many such examples of misrule. Indian HRD minister is always eager to mess with IITs which are supposed to be independent bodies. IITs should have more reservations, IIT exams should be 'reformed', IIT this IIT that. Everyone knows that IITs are about the only things that work, and they work because they are more independent. Yet no HRD minister wants to improve NITs, they don't want to improve UGC, because they don't generate headlines, they dont get job satisfaction easily. There is no legacy in improving NITs.

Are we living in some 18th century village were masses will decide and order vigilante justice ? I'mean any sensible guy can think and say that there is no such method for this madness .

Wakeup. Nobody is asking villages to order justice. Only that villages should be able to give appraisals to Government officials, who are currently not accountable to anyone. This is the 21st century thinking.

We don't want our society to become mobsters ,let them compete with rest of the world and live life happily .

You are an insecure man and have serious trust issues. Or you have some deep superiority complex. If an American town council can decide on functions under its purview, so can an Indian village council.

 

[Puchtoon]

The discontent has always been there. You are talking about the frustration with the Congress which has reached unprecedented levels.

That's not true ,2009 was mentioned because surveys are conducted near elections to get people's mood ,there is contrary evidence of what you are saying .

People get frustrated time to time ,the whole negativity thing i told about

There is a lot of government which needs to be taken care of. If schools are taken care of by villages, State governments can then concentrate on improving state universities. Right now there are so many matters before an education minister, there is no way to focus on all schools in all villages and towns. That is why the solution should be to give resposibility to people who are affected and who care, the local bodies.

They should be privatized as far as possible .

Wakeup. Nobody is asking villages to order justice. Only that villages should be able to give appraisals to Government officials, who are currently not accountable to anyone. This is the 21st century thinking.

You are an insecure man and have serious trust issues. Or you have some deep superiority complex. If an American town council can decide on functions under its purview, so can an Indian village council.

I don't know why are you going personal?
Gram Sabha consists of all the adult citizens of a village or a cluster of villages falling in the Gram Sabha [1]


You are not understanding but you are saying EXACTLY what i'am referring too,Gram sabha is NON ELECTED ,its a mob of people whosoever they are.

We don't know who compromises it ,we don't what prejudices they hold .

Do you even know the difference between an elected council and some random people?

I'mean common ,even a little infant can tell you ,you cannot provide immense powers to random people just for sake of providing power .

How its different from KHAAP? except it cannot order killings like khaap (which kejriwal suggests is a debatable issue )



So not only GRAM SABHA but in our cities MOHOLLA Mobs will be formed

 

[rubyjackass]

I don't know why are you going personal?

I had to point that out. You do not trust the people who vote but trust the guy who they vote for, blindly.

Gram Sabha consists of all the adult citizens of a village or a cluster of villages falling in the Gram Sabha [1]


You are not understanding but you are saying EXACTLY what i'am referring too,Gram sabha is NON ELECTED ,its a mob of people whosoever they are.

I understand the difference between Gram Sabha and Gram Panchayat perfectly well. What you are calling mob is the electorate of the Gram Panchayat.

We don't know who compromises it ,we don't what prejudices they hold .

My complaint regarding this fear is what you are calling 'personal' attacks earlier. You are having prejudices against them.

Do you even know the difference between and elected council and some random people?

I'mean common ,if a little infant can tell you ,you cannot provide immense powers to random people just for sake of providing power .

How its different from KHAAP? except it cannot order killings like khaap (which kejriwal suggests is a debatable issue )

So not only GRAM SABHA but in our cities MOHOLLA Mobs will be formed

They are not random people, they are the electorate of the village. Granted the more confident and more eloquent members of the sabha will have more convincing power and as a consequence, influence. But this is the same in any assembly even our Parliament. At least in Gram sabha, if you are aggrieved, go there and talk and people will care. No need to beg in lines before an MLA. Khap verdicts on deaths/ fundamental rights are not a debatable issue. It is illegal period.

And these powers are not immense powers. Having a school teacher in a local school is not immense power. It is trusting your people to take care of themselves. And it is not just for the sake of providing power. The objective is to not make villagers go to their MLA/collector for every silly requirement or complaint. It does no harm to your idea of civilization. It only strengthens it.

As people become more and more politically conscious and educated, the model will gain strength more and more.

 

[Puchtoon]

I had to point that out. You do not trust the people who vote but trust the guy who they vote for, blindly.

Those who rape our mothers and sister daily are voters too ,so? Voter koi khaas hota he kya ,ki he is eligible after this and this and these qualities to become a voter? its just age dude,what more than that?

I understand the difference between Gram Sabha and Gram Panchayat perfectly well. What you are calling mob is the electorate of the Gram Panchayat.

So a mob with voter card is different from a non voter one ?Kaha kahan se argument late ho bhai ?

My complaint regarding this fear is what you are calling 'personal' attacks earlier. You are having prejudices against them.

I have fair reasons to believe that because such institutions are ordering crimes in india not in some other part of world ,isn't it?

They are not random people, they are the electorate of the village. Granted the more confident and more eloquent members of the sabha will have more convincing power and as a consequence, influence. But this is the same in any assembly even our Parliament. At least in Gram sabha, if you are aggrieved, go there and talk and people will care. No need to beg in lines before an MLA. Khap verdicts on deaths/ fundamental rights are not a debatable issue. It is illegal period.

How are they illegal ? when legal system is in your hands ,who can point out that its illegal ?

Want to beat a women for wearing jeans,coming late from job? go tell the cop that we have the power to do this this and this,tell the doctor we can transfer you ,who can stop you ?

And these powers are not immense powers. Having a school teacher in a local school is not immense power. It is trusting your people to take care of themselves. And it is not just for the sake of providing power. The objective is to not make villagers go to their MLA/collector for every silly requirement or complaint. It does no harm to your idea of civilization. It only strengthens it.

I can understand the teacher thing but police and doctor is bizarre

As people become more and more politically conscious and educated, the model will gain strength more and more.

It is there in haryana since 800+ years ,you can visit

 

[Puchtoon]

Today's swaraj example

Aditya Raj Kaul ‏@AdityaRajKaul 4h
News coming in that a Khap Panchayat in Munirka village of Delhi has allegedly passed an order to ask North-East people to leave. Racist?

 

[surya kiran]

@Puchtoon could you dump it on dropbox and share link please?

 

[Puchtoon]

@Puchtoon could you dump it on dropbox and share link please?

I have already provided the link
Kejriwal's Vision For India-From What he says in his book 'Swaraj' | Page 2

 

[rubyjackass]

Those who rape our mothers and sister daily are voters too ,so? Voter koi khaas hota he kya ,ki he is eligible after this and this and these qualities to become a voter? its just age dude,what more than that?

Don't talk like a moron. Today we have similar sort of people in Assemblies. Kya ukhad rahe hain?

So a mob with voter card is different from a non voter one ?Kaha kahan se argument late ho bhai ?

Well the gentlemen who you want to have concentrated powers(MLAs and MPs) are not landing from heaven. They are from the same mob. And they do discuss things as a group. Same thing can happen in a group of people who want to improve their locality.

I have fair reasons to believe that because such institutions are ordering crimes in india not in some other part of world ,isn't it?

No. Your stupid idea is that any kind of assembly is harmful because they can decide to kill someone in such an assembly.

What happens if school kids in an assembly decide to attack some poor kid? They don't need an assembly to decide to attack.

How are they illegal ? when legal system is in your hands ,who can point out that its illegal ?

There can be checks and balances in the system. Listen to Kejriwal's interview

Want to beat a women for wearing jeans,coming late from job? go tell the cop that we have the power to do this this and this,tell the doctor we can transfer you ,who can stop you ?

I can understand the teacher thing but police and doctor is bizarre

It is there in haryana since 800+ years ,you can visit

There will be checks in the system. Kejriwal himself suggests an ombudsman who can dissolve such sabhas on notice of illegal moves. As I said earlier, even today some crazies beat up such women. THey don't need a new sabha to come to that crazy idea.

If you distrust everyone, then every meeting, every governing council and every consensus building mechanism is a potential khap panchayat deciding to kill people. Despite my repeated explanations that such bodies do not have extra constitutional power, you keep harping this BS theory that all Indians are racist or misogynist. I repeat if they take such racist or misogynist decisions it will be illegal, and they will liable to prosecution. What part of your thickhead does not understand this?

 

[Puchtoon]

Don't talk like a moron. Today we have similar sort of people in Assemblies. Kya ukhad rahe hain?

So if we can't we should produce more?

Well the gentlemen who you want to have concentrated powers(MLAs and MPs) are not landing from heaven. They are from the same mob. And they do discuss things as a group. Same thing can happen in a group of people who want to improve their locality.

Completely INCORRECT,people are good and bad and that's why we CHOOSE from them to shave out the BAD,if the outcome is BAD,we should do more checks and balances rather than stop choosing at all .

People sitting in paliament could be bad in your view,but they donot come from the same society same caste same area .

I'm not saying everyone in gram sabha/moholla sabha will be bad nor i'am saying each of these will deliver crazy things but many will do and many will carry out their own way of justice with their own set of prejudices and rules .

No. Your stupid idea is that any kind of assembly is harmful because they can decide to kill someone in such an assembly.

Did i said that?Or you are just making stuff to show something ? Assembly is not bad,people are not bad but random people with legal powers could be dangerous .

In khirki extension they hate black foriegners/ugandans (good or bad reason is a diffrent issue) that forms a prejudice in their mind ,give them powers of police and see what they will do !

Aree give power majority in any area where fights/religious riots happen ,you will see what i'am talking about

What happens if school kids in an assembly decide to attack some poor kid? They don't need an assembly to decide to attack.

They don't but lets say they have minds of punishing body in control,will even those kids allow him/her to punish(if they can avoid?) Even those little kids can understand this simple logic

There can be checks and balances in the system. Listen to Kejriwal's interview

Ask him to revise this swaraji manifesto

There will be checks in the system. Kejriwal himself suggests an ombudsman who can dissolve such sabhas on notice of illegal moves. As I said earlier, even today some crazies beat up such women. THey don't need a new sabha to come to that crazy idea.

Aree Yaar...........Again and again the same old BS....

Read my answer to that childrens question

If i can do i crime w/o getting punished,there will be higher chances in probably that i will do it .

If you distrust everyone, then every meeting, every governing council and every consensus building mechanism is a potential khap panchayat deciding to kill people. Despite my repeated explanations that such bodies do not have extra constitutional power, you keep harping this BS theory that all Indians are racist or misogynist. I repeat if they take such racist or misogynist decisions it will be illegal, and they will liable to prosecution. What part of your thickhead does not understand this?

Bhai Tere samajh me aati nahi baat tu mujhe bata raha he

I can trust this man,that man ,at least i know something about him ,how can i trust 80 cr random people?

kya unme se kuch blocks bhi bure nahi honge ?

Where does the point of TRUST comes? lets trust every india ,why do we need police?RAW?IB?Security agencies?Why do we need them?

Chootiyapan ki haad he

 

[rubyjackass]

If the crazy people(say the racist people in Khidki ext) want to come to a prejudicial decision, which is illegal, they don't need a Mohalla Sabha. So how are you going to prevent them? Bug their houses 24x7? What is the solution to this?

Your argument rings hollow here. Just because you fear without any basis, you want to keep the power to decide on local issues with an MLA sitting somewhere far, assuming that guy is a balanced man incapable of prejudicial decisions. So apparently everytime people should stand in lines begging him and reminding him of their street problems, to release a few thousand rupees.

Your argument is dead. If people are going to take an illegal initiative, a statutory assembly which will have set rules is not necessary for them. They will do it anyway.