Kayani to visit US this month

[PAFAce]

I've encouraged others here (notably Asim Aquil) and do so now for you- STOP our trans-shipment of goods to Afghanistan.

Completely.

Refuse all current and projected aid from America-civil and military. Do so immediately.

Make clear any violations of Pakistani airspace will be met with the full force of all your brother aces at PAF.

Divorce yourselves from your primary trading CUSTOMER.

We've done and do so little for you that I'm sure our absence will be barely noticable but refreshingly pleasant nonetheless.

A prime example of why the world considers you a bully. 'Meet me outside after school' or 'do something, punk'.

We'll do what you say, and risk getting our people killed. You will, most probably, declare us a terrorist state and want to dismantle us. On this, you will have the largest base to operate in the world, our neighbor. Nothing you say or do, however, will be for any greater good. Once again, you will prove to the world that Americans are worth more than anyone else in the world, and you will go to any extent to get done what you want to, by hook or by crook, regardless of lives lost. Hiroshima and Nagasaki all over again.

None of what you said can even slightly justify drone attacks into an 'ally'. You have gone out of your way to insult and provoke my country, all the while knowing, in your heart, that there is nothing to justify this. Lastly, a pissed of nuclear state, next door to your two biggest enemies, and with the capability of destroying your closest ally, is more than just a 'barely noticable but refreshingly pleasant' situation for the US.

I have had arguments with enough fools on the internet to realise when to stop. So this is where I get off. Happy living in your wonderland.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"Is there anything I missed?"

Uh, yeah, now that you mentioned it- a small matter of building a nuke under our noses fully understanding that U.S. legislation COMPELLED us to act upon awareness-often conveniently forgotten in the "abandonment" narrative.

Oh, check the tune you're singing about the C.I.A. and the taliban.

Right, since the world community, with her impotence towards Israeli and Indian UNSC violations, left us with so many choices and so much confidence in the international communities ability to apply pressure to prevent aggression, as India pursued her own weapons program.

Have you no shame when thousands of innocents in Afghanistan have died at the hands of the men whom you've SHELTERED since 2002?

Have you no shame that you put in power the very warlords that raped and pillaged Afghanistan, massacred entire communities on the basis of ethnicities, and created such horrific conditions that many Afghans welcomed the Taliban?

And to this day the NA warlords serve as a major corridor to Europe through which drugs, weapons and money supply the Taliban and criminal mafia's creating chaos in Afghanistan and Pakistan

I've no patience nor sympathy for any parent who welcomes these men into their homes. NONE. If their children are "martyred" by PREDATOR as a result of misplaced allegiances, so be it. The correct response is to fight these men or run as fast and as far as you can.

Snide and typical but, most of all, avoiding the hard facts of your nation's complicity in it's own demise.

Lets drop the 'holier than though' attitudes here - your nation has been just as complicit in propping up bankrupt and murderous regimes that have massacred innocents in the pursuit of 'US National interest' - Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile ... the list goes on.

I fail to see why inconsequential historical arguments over Pakistani support for the taliban, in order to paint us as morally depraved, have to be dragged into every discussion, especially when the US has no moral authority herself given the litany of interventions I pointed out.

Is it that hard to justify and argue in favor of US policy and tactics on the basis of their own strengths, that you have to be a hypocrite as you conveniently ignore your own nation's bloody hands?

Really, why do we have to get into these discussions time and time again. It shoudl be possible to make a case for US tactics on the basis of the dynamics and situation on the ground today, and not resort to inflammatory rhetoric over historical support for this and that.

 

[S-2]

"Once again, you will prove to the world that Americans are worth more than anyone else in the world, and you will go to any extent to get done what you want to, by hook or by crook, regardless of lives lost. Hiroshima and Nagasaki all over again."

For seven years you've continenced the slaughter of afghan innocents by militants harbored on your soil with nary a discouraging word. I take your "concerns" with a deep grain of salt.

How much are afghans worth to you? Evidently not much.

 

[qsaark]

"Once again, you will prove to the world that Americans are worth more than anyone else in the world, and you will go to any extent to get done what you want to, by hook or by crook, regardless of lives lost. Hiroshima and Nagasaki all over again."

For seven years you've continenced the slaughter of afghan innocents by militants harbored on your soil with nary a discouraging word. I take your "concerns" with a deep grain of salt.

How much are afghans worth to you? Evidently not much.

Dont be so dumb. The militants of the Northern alliance were as well harbored by the russians and central asian states. They were also getting support from you guys. Go to Afghanistan (if you are really seeking for truth, which you obviously not), and ask the Afghans what happened there. Dont keep coming back with inflated reasons given by the Americans to justify their invasion. I still remember Colin Powell's speach in the UN. Even a 4 star General did not hasitate to disinform the whole world about the WMDs and the chemical weapons., what to expect from you.

 

[S-2]

You must be here to kill the messenger-

"Right, since the world community, with her impotence towards Israeli and Indian UNSC violations, left us with so many choices..."

Your choices-not ours. It's shaped our perceptions of you. Israel was no threat to you and India had conducted no weapons development since the 1974 fission explosion nor did they until the eighties-by which time your program was evidently well under way.

"Have you no shame that you put in power the very warlords that raped and pillaged Afghanistan, massacred entire communities on the basis of ethnicities, and created such horrific conditions that many Afghans welcomed the Taliban?"

The Hazaris know a bit about entire communities massacred too.

Have you anybody else in mind there that''s not tainted in some way? I doubt it. My guess is that you'd have appreciated if we'd replaced the taliban with...the taliban. Nice try.

I'm sure that I've mentioned before a need to register every pashtu to the polls and make the weight of your plurality felt. That's the only answer for the near term though not a good one for non-pashtus. For the long term, hopefully some day people will vote on some basis other than tribe, ethnicity, or religion but that's ages away.

"And to this day the NA warlords serve as a major corridor to Europe through which drugs, weapons and money supply the Taliban and criminal mafia's creating chaos in Afghanistan and Pakistan"

Actually, the facts suggest that with southern Helmand being the world's single greatest source for opium and firmly within the taliban's grasp that nobody is cooperating to see those corridors put to use quite like the Pashtu farmers and militants. Isn't Karzai's brother a pashtu from Oruzgan province?

Funny how it's economics that always tie those of different ethnicities, religions, languages together so.

HEROIN, the great cultural unifier.

Your perspective is slightly skewed by some engrained bias there. Criminals in Afghanistan know no particular ethnicity. Nor do warlords. Plenty of pashtu types there, right? Haqqani and Hekmatyar come to mind. Aren't they warlords?

I've not trolled this issue...AND it's very much an issue. Nobody in Pakistan seems to much care about the seven year impact of this foreign army on your soil. The only breaches of sovereignty of which I read is America's. Yet here's the leader and army of a nation you once recognized living comfortably within your borders and I'm supposed to believe that you're our ALLY?

"Is it that hard to justify and argue in favor of US policy and tactics on the basis of their own strengths, that you have to be a hypocrite as you conveniently ignore your own nation's bloody hands?"

No. I've stated the case lucidly. If it's an issue of deaths there are very few Pakistani innocents dying by PREDATOR, particularly in comparison to the intended targets, open combat by your own army in Bajaur or SWAT, or in Afghanistan at the hands of men whom your nation harbors. If it's an issue of sovereignty, it's a spurious one for painfully obviousl reasons of no fault to America which reach back to the late fall of 2001 and likely beyond there to your nation's decisions to permit the residence of so many afghan citizens after the Soviet-Afghan war. This huge expatriate community along your western borders did you no favors but then you did nothing to alter that condition either.

"bloody hands"?

Really? Now who's the self-righteous one? You must feel damned proud of your past and present human rights record. Care to REALLY compare?

 

[dbc]

I've no patience nor sympathy for any parent who welcomes these men into their homes. NONE. If their children are "martyred" by PREDATOR as a result of misplaced allegiances, so be it.

Harsh S-2...

The correct response is to fight these men

I agree, the correct response is to fight these men together. Terrorist and Terrorism have no place in a civilized society. The Pakistanis know this; take the time to read what they have to say. You must not let the hate spewed by a few fundamentalist cloud your judgment. We simply cannot afford more enemies - a change of guard in Washington is the perfect opportunity to prevent a friend from becoming a foe.

..on a lighter note leave your shoes at home when you go to see Kayani...

 

[S-2]

"Dont be so dumb. The militants of the Northern alliance were as well harbored by the russians and central asian states. They were also getting support from you guys. Go to Afghanistan (if you are really seeking for truth, which you obviously not), and ask the Afghans what happened there."

Really? I've got the first CIA agent (Gary Schroen- FIRST IN) into Afghanistan who makes clear that there was nothing going in after the their offices were shut down in Peshawar.

"Dont keep coming back with inflated reasons given by the Americans to justify their invasion."

Nothing inflated about 3,000+ dead U.S. citizens and residents in one hour's time. Knowing you, though, it was a CIA op all the way.

"I still remember Colin Powell's speach in the UN. Even a 4 star General did not hasitate to disinform the whole world about the WMDs and the chemical weapons."

When every nat'l intelligence agency in the world of note supports, by independant assessment, your own conclusions, it's what you run with-particularly when the issue involves WMD.

So nevermind the fact that Saddam had possessed these weapons and used them, had maintained stockpiles as late as 1996 and, even after destruction, maintained the infrastructure and scientists to resume his work per Duelfer. Nevermind that 500 chemical shells of mustard and sarin were found in Iraq after it was declared WMD free. You probably missed that, didn't you?

Anyway, here's the lowdown on Iraq- New set of elections the other day. Civilian casualties per day down to pre-war levels. $65 bil in oil revenues this year. Saddam dead. A shia government in power. A Kurdish government leading it's own region. No fascist baath party in power. No tikritis lording over the rest. No irridentist ambitions on Iran or Kuwait. No hint of WMD in the foreseeable future.

I love the results. Don't you?

"what to expect from you."

What not to expect?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi PAFAce,

The sanctions were always on us---we knew they were acoming---but it was Reagn who put them aside----Reagan had the political clout, tact and strength to reject the sanction---george Bush senior was a different story---politically he was a weakling---and he didnot have the political savy of Reagan either.

We are a nuclear power---because of the U S and european countries---most of our nuclear scientists studied in the u s. My uncle---he is dead now---was one of the pioneers of the nuclear program---at one time Principal of Reactor school at Nylore---studied in the u s in the 60's---so many guys in the pakistani program learnt everything in the U S.

Even our rocket program---we had scientist trained in the u s---suparco had all their help from the u s in the 60's and 70's-we have a successful program because we had a lots of help from the u s.

Yes the u s decieved us----but it was us who dragged them into the russian afghan war in the 80's. The u s had no intention of getting involved full time. Zia tricked them. Oh well.

 

[S-2]

"Zia tricked them."

How so? This is interesting. Can you elaborate?

 

[qsaark]

Really? I've got the first CIA agent (Gary Schroen- FIRST IN) into Afghanistan who makes clear that there was nothing going in after the their offices were shut down in Peshawar.

What else are you expecting from a person on the US payroll to say?

Nothing inflated about 3,000+ dead U.S. citizens and residents in one hour's time. Knowing you, though, it was a CIA op all the way.

This is debated to death. Ther is no proof. If anyone benefitted from that are the owners of the towers and the US governemnt that was already in the process of fabricating reasons to attack Iraq and Afghanistan.

When every nat'l intelligence agency in the world of note supports, by independant assessment, your own conclusions, it's what you run with-particularly when the issue involves WMD.

UK and Australia and rest the Europe is not all the world. Who were also eager in the war booty.

So nevermind the fact that Saddam had possessed these weapons and used them, had maintained stockpiles as late as 1996 and, even after destruction, maintained the infrastructure and scientists to resume his work per Duelfer. Nevermind that 500 chemical shells of mustard and sarin were found in Iraq after it was declared WMD free. You probably missed that, didn't you?

And all with the support of the US and Europe. You probably missed that, didn't you? The simple fact is, had Saddam had any WMDs in his possession, no one could dare to attack on Iraq. Both the UN teams and US Intel had made sure that Iraq was in no possession of anything that could harm US/allies invasion.

Anyway, here's the lowdown on Iraq- New set of elections the other day. Civilian casualties per day down to pre-war levels. $65 bil in oil revenues this year. Saddam dead. A shia government in power. A Kurdish government leading it's own region. No fascist baath party in power. No tikritis lording over the rest. No irridentist ambitions on Iran or Kuwait. No hint of WMD in the foreseeable future.

All this could be achieved without shedding the blood of the millions. But this is rather difficult to get through your brain. And the fascist baath party was always pro-US and US has always supported the fascist baath party.

I love the results. Don't you?

Yeh, I love to see the result that after all this 'humane' effort by the US, an American cant walk freely on the roads of Iraq. Four marines got killed just yesterday.

 

[Super Falcon]

why he is visiting their wasting the money of people of pakistan when his job is very simple and clear to lead the pakistan army not the american army why he dont stay here and do what people of pakistan pay for him if their is anything in usa for our army people of defence ministry should go their not the army chief

 

[qsaark]

why he is visiting their wasting the money of people of pakistan when his job is very simple and clear to lead the pakistan army not the american army why he dont stay here and do what people of pakistan pay for him if their is anything in usa for our army people of defence ministry should go their not the army chief

I find myself in total agreement with you. At any rate, Mullen is already shuttling back and forth with new or revised orders for Kiyani.

 

[S-2]

"This is debated to death. Ther is no proof."

I see. Conspiracies abound in your tiny world. Nevermind that freely-offered confessions from OBL on down are easily available. Proof isn't the issue.

There's little point continuing with you. The intellectual content is utterly absent in your rants.

 

[qsaark]

"This is debated to death. Ther is no proof."There's little point continuing with you. The intellectual content is utterly absent in your rants.

But I will keep coming after you unless you stop spreading disinformation in this forum. Watch.

 

[S-2]

"But I will keep coming after you unless you stop spreading disinformation in this forum. Watch."

I see. Personal mission, eh? Well, you are a talented and powerful intellect. I'll consider myself fairly warned of your considerable capabilities. Thanks...

Now...about that 9/11 conspiracy thingy?