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Kaveri engine production in final negotiation stage:

Andross

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New Delhi, Feb 23 (IANS) India's negotiation with a French firm for developing a production version of its indigenous Kaveri engine for its military aircraft is in the final stage of cost negotiations, Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the Rajya Sabha Wednesday.

Negotiations with French firm Snecma are being conducted by a tender purchase committee with members from the Defence Research and Development Organisation, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the Indian Air Force, the Indian Navy and defence finance department.


'It is proposed to develop production version Kaveri (K10) engine on co-design and co-development basis with Snecma of France. The technical evaluation for this proposal has been completed. Tender purchase committee is negotiating the commercial aspects,' Antony said in a written reply during question hour.


He said so far, nine prototypes of Kaveri engines and four prototypes of Kaveri Core (Kabini) engines have been developed, and about 1,975 hours of testing have been conducted on Kaveri and its core engines at ground and altitude conditions.


Kaveri engine prototype (K9) was integrated with an IL-76 aircraft at Gromov Flight Research Institute in Russia. After adequate engine ground runs, the scientists had successfully completed the taxi trials and the maiden flight test of Kaveri engine with IL-76 aircraft for over an hour on Nov 3 last year, followed by three more flight tests.


'These flight tests covered a six km altitude and a speed of 0.6 mach (0.6 times the speed of sound),' he added.


India had sanctioned the Kaveri engine development project on Mar 30, 1989, with a probable date of completion in December 1996 and a cost of Rs.382.81 crore. The project cost was later revised to Rs.2,839 crore.


Some of the major reasons for time and cost overruns are first-time development of an engine, lack of skilled manpower in engine manufacturing, enhancement in the scope of project during development, lack of infrastructure for engine manufacture testing and component/system level testing within the country.


'Flying test bed trials was not originally included as a milestone in the project. Engine and component failure during testing, which is inevitable in these kind of projects, resulted in changes in design and material based on various reviews,' Antony said.


Foreign manufacturing agencies too showed less priority for the project in view of minimum order quantity, that is the production order quantity from other engine houses.


US sanctions imposed in 1998 (after India's nuclear tests in Pokhran under the National Democratic Alliance regime) affected the delivery of critical systems and components, he added.

Kaveri engine production in final negotiation stage: Antony
 
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Two points, 1) would this engine still be regarded to be a domestic develoedp engine or its now a joint venture engine?
2) Can Snecma scratch the whole thing and start everything from beginning? Is there a study on the existing engined done by Snecma engineers to determine how much of the existing development can be use to complete the project.
This is another example of why India should involve in joint venture instead of trying on its own. When it comes to challenging projects, its advisible for India to find a foreign partner as it does not have the technical capability to build something efficiently and expediant enough on its own. Be it planes, tanks, engines, high end rocket engines and manned space exploration. Look at Brahmos and now T-50, there were all joint ventures and they are now successful. I think it would be best for India to team up with the US in the future. Such as manned space flight.
 
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There is a thread on Kaveri developments. Why open a new thread?
 
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Two points, 1) would this engine still be regarded to be a domestic develoedp engine or its now a joint venture engine?
2) Can Snecma scratch the whole thing and start everything from beginning? Is there a study on the existing engined done by Snecma engineers to determine how much of the existing development can be use to complete the project.

I think someone should answer these questions !
 
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I think someone should answer these questions !

Kaveri is actually Russian engine. These tests are just mock-up to show to USA that Russia never broke the promise and India developed on its own.

Snecma agreed to partner with GTRE in making a production version because they realised that India has already matured aero-engine technology upto 90% and its only matter of time that eventually Indians will make that last 10% happen sooner or later. So, its wiser to get into business rather than sitting on side and whining like Americans.

Is that answer enough, buddy?
 
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Two points, 1) would this engine still be regarded to be a domestic develoedp engine or its now a joint venture engine?
2) Can Snecma scratch the whole thing and start everything from beginning? Is there a study on the existing engined done by Snecma engineers to determine how much of the existing development can be use to complete the project.
This is another example of why India should involve in joint venture instead of trying on its own. When it comes to challenging projects, its advisible for India to find a foreign partner as it does not have the technical capability to build something efficiently and expediant enough on its own. Be it planes, tanks, engines, high end rocket engines and manned space exploration. Look at Brahmos and now T-50, there were all joint ventures and they are now successful. I think it would be best for India to team up with the US in the future. Such as manned space flight.

1) The engine has been designed here in India and and we don't have testbed so it was tested in russia..
This engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton...
GTRE is running two separate program for engine, the two different platforms are K9+ Program and the K 10 Program
K9+ will be fully indian and will provide us experience and ability to test the engines..
K10 will be developed with snecma with more thrust 90-95Kn and it is the production variant

2)THEY WILL NOT BUILD FROM SCRATCH AGAIN...Their work is to tweak the engine and increase the performance.....

About the JV..u have seen only Brahmos and T-50..Huh..??
wat about Nag ATGM
,Dhruv,
LCH,
wat about BMD
,wat about NAL saras
,AAkash(3000+ sold),
Shivalik Stealth frigate,
wat about Arihant Nuke submarine(already sailing in water part of 2years trails),
Aircraft carrier,
wat about our ability to launch 10 satellites @ 1go...?
And ISRO was the Organization which found water on moon...?
And Shaurya hypersonic missile tested successfully...
U forgot all these.....?????



some one was asking answer for these questions,i hope i answered u...

And dont worry there is not gonna be any JV between Nasa and Isro for manned space flight..or we r not gonna copy anyone,well make a JV and work together to bring the product..we don't want a bad name in this world...
It was just a proposal,is there any rules that they have to agree for that????
after we have successfully finish our moon mission we will enter into JV..
 
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1) The engine has been designed here in India and and we don't have testbed so it was tested in russia..
This engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton...
GTRE is running two separate program for engine, the two different platforms are K9+ Program and the K 10 Program
K9+ will be fully indian and will provide us experience and ability to test the engines..
K10 will be developed with snecma with more thrust 90-95Kn and it is the production variant

2)THEY WILL NOT BUILD FROM SCRATCH AGAIN...Their work is to tweak the engine and increase the performance.....

About the JV..u have seen only Brahmos and T-50..Huh..??
wat about Nag ATGM
,Dhruv,
LCH,
wat about BMD
,wat about NAL saras
,AAkash(3000+ sold),
Shivalik Stealth frigate,
wat about Arihant Nuke submarine(already sailing in water part of 2years trails),
Aircraft carrier,
wat about our ability to launch 10 satellites @ 1go...?
And ISRO was the Organization which found water on moon...?
And Shaurya hypersonic missile tested successfully...
U forgot all these.....?????



some one was asking answer for these questions,i hope i answered u...

And dont worry there is not gonna be any JV between Nasa and Isro for manned space flight..or we r not gonna copy anyone,well make a JV and work together to bring the product..we don't want a bad name in this world...
It was just a proposal,is there any rules that they have to agree for that????
after we have successfully finish our moon mission we will enter into JV..

So do you foresee India work more with US or Russia when it comes to future projects such as space exploration?
 
. . .
I honestly see India working with Russians and Americans ... not only these I clearly see that India will work with all the Major Powers in every sectors be it science , agriculture, space , bio ,ect ... the one only major country which is and will be out from list will be China for all well known reasons.

In present time the best way to FILL THE GAP of our laid back habits is JOINT VENTURES , they are promising and it gives all the tech support and we should not see Joint ventures as any shame on national pride .. rather we should see the benefits , in the long run we will have good relations and all options open in every field.

IT's not that joint ventures show that we don't have brains , we all know very well where is our brains going ...all people have life they can not let their brains work for small salaries they take step to go for bigger ...the day India really starts paying the day we will never need JV'S...

i hope you guys agree with me.... and i am always open for any correction ...
 
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Snecma agreed to partner with GTRE in making a production version because they realised that India has already matured aero-engine technology upto 90% and its only matter of time that eventually Indians will make that last 10% happen sooner or later. So, its wiser to get into business rather than sitting on side and whining like Americans.

Is that answer enough, buddy?


kaverie will use snecma core, which is the most complex section of any turbofan engine. the core engine is proprietary own has in common with many other snecma engines and is impossible to copy. india will always depend on france to manufature that section forever, until they have a breakthrough in material science on their own..i don't know how they can still call this indigenous engine?
 
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