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Kashmir tourist bus explosion kills four

BATMAN

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Kashmir tourist bus explosion kills four
http://www.theage.com.au/news/World...ion-kills-four/2007/07/29/1185647749779.html#
July 29, 2007 - 11:49PM

Four people, including two women, have been killed and at least 20 wounded by an explosion in a tourist coach in Kashmir's main city.

Police said they were unsure if the blast was a grenade attack by militants or caused by a faulty air-conditioner inside the coach.

Most of those wounded in the explosion were Indian tourists, a police spokesman said.

"A powerful explosion took place inside the bus," he said.

"We are ascertaining the details, we haven't yet ruled out a militant hand in the explosion."

The red bus was littered with blood-soaked clothes, some of its windows had been blown out and dazed passengers walked around sobbing.

No militant group has claimed responsibility for the explosion near Shalimar Garden, a popular tourist spot in Srinagar, the summer capital of the troubled Himalayan region.

The explosion comes a day after India's Defence Minister AK Antony said the security situation was "fast improving" in Kashmir.
At least a dozen Indian tourists were killed and scores wounded in attacks on their vehicles by suspected separatist militants last year.

There has been an increase in violence in the Himalayan region with the onset of summer when it becomes easier for militants to move about and to cross through the mountain passes from the Pakistani side.

Officials said more than 42,000 people have been killed in Kashmir since a revolt against Indian rule erupted in 1989 but human rights' groups put the toll at about 60,000.
 
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So BATMAN, i have a question for you. Would you classify these guys as terrorists or freedom fighters ?
 
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I would classify the faulty air conditioner as a terrorist that needs to be treated brutally by the Indian army. (with a AK found nearby to justify this of course)
 
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key, do you believe a faulty air-conditioner would cause a massive explosion like this with 24 causalities ? I don't know but you are the expert.
 
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If a object explodes with enough force it can be lethal. A grenade is lethal out to 20-30 metres. the casualties would have been greater. Also the cause of death has not been established. some of the victims may have had heart attacks etc.

Lets wait and see before jumping to conclusions....(A lesson that should be learned from the train fire a few years ago)
 
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Look! The Muslim massacring Indian Government is sending tourists into Kashmere!!!! Oh my Gawd.......I'm gonna call the PMO to tell them to stop this!

The tourists will find out what the Indian Army is upto in Kashmere! :lol:

Seriously, the 'freedom fighting' terrorists have been known to launch grenade attacks near schools! It's not like you need this incident to have an idea of what lowly beings they are!

(A lesson that should be learned from the train fire a few years ago)

Yes, a train full of Hindu pilgrims caught fire on its own in a Muslim majority area after a fight with Muslims in the previous railway station. We should learn lessons from it. :rolleyes:
 
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Look! The Muslim massacring Indian Government is sending tourists into Kashmere!!!! Oh my Gawd.......I'm gonna call the PMO to tell them to stop this!

The tourists will find out what the Indian Army is upto in Kashmere! :lol:

Seriously, the 'freedom fighting' terrorists have been known to launch grenade attacks near schools! It's not like you need this incident to have an idea of what lowly beings they are!

How dare you.make fun of the freedom fighters? They have just re-adjusted their priorities and said first they will gain freedom for their bros in Pakistan. The first step has already been taken in LM and then in the week following that when they killed '00s of occupying forces.
 
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I cant believe the hypocrisy in this forum at times
 
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Forensic investigators in India have raised questions over an attack which killed almost 60 Hindus and led to widespread anti-Muslim riots in the western state of Gujarat.[/COLOR]

Hindu pilgrims travelling by train were said to have been attacked by a Muslim mob in the town of Godhra which forced the train to stop and set fire to one of the carriages.

Charred bodies recovered from the train
Nearly 60 people were killed
But a report by forensic scientists in Gujarat says it does not appear that the fire on the train was started from outside.

The incident, which took place last February, sparked some of the worst Hindu-Muslim riots in decades in which it is estimated about 2,000 people, most of them Muslims, died.

Fifty-nine people, mostly women and children, died in the attack, which sparked weeks of anti-Muslim violence across Gujarat.

New evidence

Now, conclusions reached by official forensic investigators contradict earlier accounts of the incident.

They say the evidence suggests the fire was started inside a carriage, not by a mob outside.

Their findings will form part of police evidence and have not yet been made public.

Riots

The new theory does not answer the key question of who started the fire and why and seems at odds with eyewitness accounts given at the time.

Youths burn vehicles and debris on a street of Ahmedabad
Authorities fear a repeat of the violence
Some independent reports into the anti-Muslim riots which followed the train fire have accused the state government of collusion in the violence.

An internal British report said the riots, far from being spontaneous, were pre-planned and carried out with the support of the chief minister.

India's central government has dismissed such allegations and refused to criticise or replace the chief minister, Narendra Modi, who is part of the same political party, the BJP.

Rally called off

On Tuesday, Mr Modi's government postponed a Hindu rally planned for Thursday amid fears it could reignite violence between Hindus and Muslims.

Billed as a celebration of Gujarat's achievements, the Gaurav Yatra chariot processions were being organised by the chief minister's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

India's National Human Rights Commission had voiced fears that the rally might revive religious violence in the state.

While Mr Modi postponed Thursday's event, he has not changed the timing of another Hindu mass celebration in Gujarat scheduled for 12 July.

Correspondents say that the authorities will wait to see how the 12 July event passes off before deciding on a new date for the Gaurav Yatra.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2087709.stm
 
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India train fire 'not mob attack'
Godhra train
The fire at Godhra triggered days of rioting
An Indian train fire that killed 59 Hindus and provoked deadly religious riots in 2002 was started by accident, a government inquiry has said.

Evidence suggests the fire began inside the train, not that it was fire-bombed, an investigating judge decided.

Most accounts from the time and since said a Muslim mob threw petrol bombs at the train, starting the blaze.

The incident set off days of rioting in Gujarat state in which at least 1,000 people, most of them Muslims,died.


The possibility of an inflammable liquid having been used is completely ruled out
Justice UC Banerjee

Since the train fire, state police have arrested more than 100 Muslims in connection with the incident.

About 75 of them remain on remand awaiting trial. No one has been convicted over the train fire.

Both Gujarat's inspector-general of police and India's main opposition Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) were swift to dismiss the inquiry findings.

'Preponderance of evidence'

The Hindus aboard the train were returning from the holy town of Ayodhya when they perished in the blaze at Godhra.

The incident triggered acts of revenge which swept the state for days. Some estimates put the number of people killed in the slaughter at 2,000.

Gujarat riots
The riots caused divisions which have still to heal

Gujarat's state authorities say Muslims torched the train.

Survivor accounts speak of a stone-throwing mob attacking the train. But doubts have persisted over how the fire started.

Retired Supreme Court judge Umesh Chandra Banerjee, who is leading the government inquiry, dismissed suggestions that inflammable liquid could have been thrown at the train from outside.

"There has been a preponderance of evidence that the fire in coach number S6 originated in the coach itself without any external input," he said.

"The possibility of an inflammable liquid having been used is completely ruled out as there was first a smell of burning, followed by then smoke and flames thereafter."

Justice Banerjee said that according to eyewitness accounts people had been cooking in the carriage at the time it caught fire.

He said the railway authorities had "pre-judged" the incident, and criticised them for not conducting a thorough inquiry.

'Politically motivated'

Justice Banerjee's investigation was set up by the Congress party-led government last summer after it won general elections in India.


There is one probe going on into the conspiracy angle and another criminal trial is in process - was there any need for another probe?
Arun Jaitley
Bharatiya Janata Party

The BJP, which was in power nationally and in Gujarat at the time of the riots, said the inquiry findings were "politically motivated".

Calling the report a disgrace, a spokesman said it was an unfortunate attempt to trivialise what he called one of the worst crimes in India.

Gujarat's inspector-general of police, Rakesh Asthana, also challenged the inquiry report.

He told the BBC the fire was an act of conspiracy and that at least 60 litres of petrol had been poured inside the compartment before burning rags were thrown in from outside.

He said forensic scientists in Gujarat backed the police findings.

The BJP and its chief minister in Gujarat, Narendra Modi, were criticised for not doing enough to restore order once the violence had begun.

Police were alleged to have simply refused to intervene or, in many cases, arrived too late to prevent attacks.

Only a handful of people have been found guilty in riot-related cases.


In 2003 the Supreme Court castigated the authorities for not delivering justice to victims. It has since moved one of the highest-profile riot court cases out of the state.

The riots were viewed by many as a serious challenge to India's record in protecting its minorities and left many Muslims feeling deeply insecure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4180885.stm
 
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I cant believe the hypocrisy in this forum at times

It amazes me that you guys are whining that someone is suggesting you wait and see
(what the cause of the explosion was) rather than go off on a rampage....but then I guess rationality is a bit much to ask.:disagree:
 
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Indian train fire that sparked religious riots 'accidental,' probe finds

A fire on a train in India that killed 59 Hindu pilgrims and sparked deadly religious riots in 2002 was caused by an accident – not a Muslim mob as originally reported, an inquiry has concluded.

Most accounts at the time, including from the federal and state governments, said the blaze started after Muslims at a station in Gujarat state pelted the train with kerosene bombs.


The news set off weeks of sectarian violence that killed as many as 2,000 people, mostly Muslim, including children who were slaughtered with swords or beaten to death with sticks.

The state government arrested more than 100 Muslims accused of participating in the arson, most of whom remain in jail although no one has been convicted.

However, a federal committee appointed to investigate the blaze found it was likely caused by someone cooking or smoking inside a coach.

"The fire in S6 coach of Sabarmati Express can at this stage be ascribed as an 'accidental fire,'" the committee said in its interim report.
Continue Article

Retired Supreme Court judge U.C. Banerjee, who led the four-member committee, added: "There has been a preponderance of evidence that the fire in coach number S6 originated in the coach itself without any external input."

"...The possibility of an inflammable liquid having been used is completely ruled out as there was first a smell of burning, followed by then smoke and flames thereafter."

Banerjee, who said eyewitnesses reported people had been cooking in the carriage when it caught fire, chastised railway authorities for pre-judging the incident and criticized them for not investigating thoroughly.

The committee was set up by the Congress party-led government last July after it won the federal election.

The Hindu nationalist Bhartiya Janata Party, or BJP, which led the previous federal government and Gujarat state at the time of the fire, dismissed the committee's report as "politically motivated."

Fire followed pilgrim visit to controversial temple site

The fire broke out Feb. 27, 2002, on a train loaded with Hindu pilgrims returning from Ayodhya in Uttar Pradesh state. They had just visited a controversial site where militant Hindus had demolished a Muslim mosque in 1992 and were planning to build a temple.

Two coaches loaded with passengers caught fire near a predominantly Muslim village, just after leaving Godhra train station in Gujarat.

After Muslims were blamed, the worst sectarian riots in a decade ripped through the country. The rioters killed 1,000 people in Gujarat state alone and looted and destroyed many businesses.

Gujarat's government was accused by several domestic and foreign human-rights groups of turning a blind eye to the riots. The previous BJP-led federal government was also accused of doing little to stop the violence.

Muslims complained that police and soldiers stood by and did nothing to stop the killing.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/01/17/india-050117.html
 
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The Banerjee Committee report on the Godhra train fire, corroborated by independent expert analysis, knocks the bottom out of the "conspiracy" theory hatched by Hindutva forces to rationalise the terrible pogrom of Muslims that followed.

BARELY seven weeks after the butchery of Gujarat's Muslims began on February 28, 2002, Atal Bihari Vajpayee stunned the world by virtually defending and justifying the carnage even while describing it as a "tragedy". India's Prime Minister, addressing a Bharatiya Janata Party meeting in Goa, taunted and chided Muslims by saying "wherever they are, they live separately", and nonchalantly asserted: "If a conspiracy had not been hatched to burn alive the innocent passengers of the Sabarmati Express [at Godhra], the subsequent tragedy in Gujarat could have been averted. But this did not happen." He then rhetorically asked: "But who lit the fire?"

Vajpayee had (belatedly) visited Gujarat just 10 days earlier. There, he had made remarks regretting the communal killing and mildly reprimanding Chief Minister Narendra Modi. This raised the expectation that he would sharply demarcate the BJP and its national government from Modi, in particular his obnoxious "action-reaction" rationalisation for the worst carnage in independent India's history.

Vajpayee disgraced himself and brought ignominy to his high office by supporting that very rationalisation. But that he should have done so at that fateful moment was no accident. For Hindutva, Godhra was and remains a powerful symbol, yet another concentrated re-creation of a long history of victimhood, of the subjugation of "non-violent", "peace-loving" Hindus by ruthless and violent aggressors.

Godhra served as a justification for demonic retaliation and retribution - Hindus "getting even" with their oppressors by finally "waking up" and taking to arms. The inherent justice presumed in this retribution overwhelmed, in the eyes of BJP supporters, all other injustices and iniquities, including the gross disproportion in the violence (2,000 Muslims killed and many more raped, while 59 Hindus died) and the complete communalisation of the State, or the sheer perversity of taking the "eye-for-an-eye" logic to its conclusion.

The image of the burning coach has been politically exploited ever since. As has the presumed idea of a prior conspiracy to kill 59 kar sevaks returning from Ayodhya, the Modi government has accused and harassed more than a hundred Muslims for being part of the "conspiracy" and has filed 10 charge-sheets against them.

This "conspiracy theory" and the vicious politics associated with it has now been dealt a grievous blow by the interim report of the U.C. Banerjee Committee appointed by the Railway Ministry, which has concluded that the fire in Coach S-6 was purely "accidental".

The report's principal conclusion, ruling out the "petrol theory" and the "miscreant activity theory", has been stridently attacked both by the BJP national leadership and the Gujarat police on substantive grounds (it lacks substance and ignores weighty evidence that Muslims threw fireballs or lighted rags into Coach S-6), as well as procedural ones (regarding the timing of its sudden release just prior to the elections to three State Assemblies, without notice or warrant).

BJP general secretary Arun Jaitley has attacked Banerjee as an unreliable "retired justice" handpicked by Lalu Prasad for political reasons. He has repeatedly sought to discredit the report's main findings on the ground that it ignored "evidence" that 140 litres of petrol had been purchased from a nearby petrol pump and that some men threw an inflammable liquid into Coach S-6 from near the toilets.

The criticism is plain unconvincing because Jaitley has not read the report; nor did he provide any evidence that contradicts its findings. On the face of it, Banerjee's conclusion fully conforms to several accounts of the causes of the fire, including the first forensic laboratory report, the eye-witnesses' depositions (including of the railway staff who observed Coach S-6 from the cabins), and published photographs of the coach, which show that the smoke and the fire started from the top, rather than from the bottom. All these suggest that the fire was not caused by inflammable fluid thrown on to the floor.

Gujarat police officials claimed, while appearing before the Nanavati-Shah inquiry commission, that there was indeed a conspiracy, "hatched at the Aman Guest House two days before the carnage", which was linked to a "terrorist outfit". The officer concerned, however, refused to name the outfit. Gujarat officials also contradictorily claim that "60 litres of petrol" and "120 litres of flammable material" were poured into Coach S-6 to cause the fire.

Questions do arise about the timing of the release of "an interim report" just five weeks short of the final one that is due by February 22. But the Railway Board's records reportedly show that a request had been made to Banerjee to submit an interim report by January 15 (The Hindu, January 18). A delay of two days is hardly abnormal.

Yet, it must be admitted that the report's sudden release has created some misapprehensions and made it needlessly vulnerable to political attacks. The BJP's capacity for sheer childishness and mulishness must not be underestimated. It generally thinks that whatever does not favour it must be "prejudiced", inherently wrong and the result of a "secularist conspiracy". For months, it refused to accept politically the verdict of the last Lok Sabha elections, which by any standards were free and fair. Nevertheless, the Banerjee Committee would have enhanced its own credibility had it released the interim report somewhat earlier, or waited until after the elections.

As for the Gujarat police, the less said about their record in the Godhra case the better. They have unfailingly barked up the wrong tree and indicted as many as 131 people under POTA (Prevention of Terrorism Act) for the burning of the coach, of whom 104 have been arrested and detained. Their application of this draconian law is so full of double standards (all of Gujarat's 300-odd POTA detainees are non-Hindus, see Frontline April 7, 2004), their record of intimidating witnesses and accused so appalling, and their communal prejudice against Muslims so intense, as to cast doubts over all their claims.

Even so, let us assume that they are right in saying that a conspiracy was hatched to attack the train carrying militant kar sevaks. That still does not get them off the hook of establishing the causal link between the conspirators and the actual initiation of the physical processes that started the smoke and the fire in Coach S-6, eventually killing 59 people. They have to detail and validate the precise sequence of steps through which the process took place - whether caused by "conspirators", or accidentally.

They have completely failed to do that. All the forced confessions they extract and the fanciful hypotheses they manufacture about the fire, without a rigorous forensic analysis, will have no credibility unless they produce clinching evidence about what killed the 59 victims (was it asphyxiation from smoke, soot and toxic gases, or burns from the fire?) and through what processes.

ONE can only hope that the Banerjee report has such a convincing hypothesis, which bears scientific and forensic scrutiny. But its principal finding is strongly corroborated by the report of an independent inquiry by engineers and experts under the auspices of an activist group with an excellent record - the Hazards Centre of New Delhi.

The report is authored by two Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Delhi professors - Dinesh Mohan with expertise in safety and human tolerance to injuries, and Sunil Kale, with expertise in thermodynamics and fluidisation - an Indian Railways mechanical engineer with experience in coaching, and the Hazards Centre's Duny Roy, with some solid work in occupational health, hazards and safety. It is written in a simple, easily accessible manner and illustrated with slides that bring out the specific nature of damage to Coach S-6.

The report's greatest merit is that it adopts an analytical framework that is systematic and rigorous - going through the pattern of the fire sparks on the coach, the type and causation of the fire, the depositions of 41 surviving passengers of the coach to the police, a critique of the post-mortem reports pertaining to 27 cases, and a correlation of the injuries sustained by 56 passengers with the spread of the smoke and the fire. The report establishes that:

* The fire probably originated in the region between the last two cabins (8 and 9) and it is highly unlikely that it could have started on the floor of the passage or the floor outside the toilets by someone throwing inflammable fluid.

* The resultant dense and high temperature smoke spread along the ceiling of the carriage and eventually resulted in a flash-over when the fire engulfed the entire coach from the top.

* In the above circumstances, people must have gathered trying to escape and been subjected to dense and toxic fumes and radiative heat, resulting in asphyxiation and death. (All quotes from the original.)

The Hazards Centre report does not claim to be the last word on the subject and calls for "a dual strategy of experimental and computer simulations" to understand the process of combustion so that its results could be used for "deciding the location of fire detectors" and other safety interventions.

Several elements of the report are noteworthy. It analyses the damage to Coach S-6 by comparing it with six other burnt coaches, including one that is now parked at Jagadhri. This caught fire while under maintenance in the washing line of Delhi Junction Station in November 2003 and has a burns-marks pattern similar to Coach S-6. The patterns indicate that the heat was more severe on the upper half of the coaches and greater at one end of the coach in both cases.

This fits in with the pattern of burns sustained by the victims: most of these are on the upper portions of their bodies and few below the abdomen. This could not be the case had the fire originated from the floor. Had the fire started on the floor of the passage or the floor outside the toilets, "inflammable plywood and foam in three tiers of seats would not be available for the fire to burn in this area. If the fire was started by an inflammable fluid on the floor, the flames would have been noticed right away in a very crowded carriage, precluding the possibility of a long smouldering source", says the report.

In all likelihood, combustible material placed below the lower berth (bench), including clothing and plastic goods, caught fire accidentally, probably because of a half-lighted match, a cigarette butt, or a cooking stove. This probably set the plywood base of the seat on fire, and then the latex foam on the seat. The foam creates "enormous clouds of hot, dense, asphyxiating, black smoke and this itself becomes the source of ignition for other materials as the temperature rises to flash point".

Latex foam and the rexine (vinyl fabric) covering the berth as well as laminated plastic partitions (sunmica) and vinyl flooring (linoleum) produce extremely poisonous gases on combustion, including hydrogen cyanide, free isocyanates and carbon monoxide, along with dense smoke.

It is this toxic smoke that probably caused a majority of the deaths, while direct fire burns were responsible for far fewer casualties.

THE report demonstrates how the post-mortem examinations were done in a hurry in the railway yard, each lasting an average of 38 minutes, and are unreliable. But the injury reports are far better and strengthen the main conclusions that the fire started in the luggage below one of the seats "in the 8th or 9th cabin and then spread through radiative and convective heating from the overhead smoke".

The Hazards Centre report highlights one major feature of the expertise now available with many NGOs (non-governmental organisations) and people's movements, through their capacity for public-spirited scientific and technological analysis.

Such groups are able to do a far better job than governments of understanding hazards and analysing safety issues. This has been demonstrated time and again in the recent past - during the reconstruction effort after the Uttarkashi, Killari and Gujarat earthquakes and the Orissa super cyclone, as well as during the Bhopal gas disaster.

The Banerjee committee would do well to draw upon such expertise before producing its final report. And the BJP would do well to accept that the truth about Godhra lies outside fanciful and communal conspiracy theories.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2203/stories/20050211001909200.htm
 
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