Kashmir polls

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now you are behaving like a sore loser.

If the voter %age was low, it would have been touted as a vindication of all what you'd like to believe..

Now that it isn't..you say things highlighted above. Even if it not necessarily the truth is only partially so, thats what democracy is all about.

Going by the quotes on Western articles on the polls, many people did indeed express continued support for separatism, but they also voiced a pragmatism in that they did not see the conflict being resolved anytime soon, and they had to also live their lives, hence the need to vote to bring about improvement in that respect, and that is what they should do.

The election does not invalidate the seperatist sentiment, though India would like the world to believe that. After all, the recent largest ever protests in Kashmir occurred after years of calm, investment and development in Kashmir, and a participation in the political process by Kashmiris during that time, and all it took was a little spark for that sentiment to be expressed.

All this time India was chanting the same refrain, look at the participation in the political process, look at the 'peace and calm' - no separatism exists!. And then that house of cards came falling down. We hear the same refrains now as well.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The same can be well said about Pakistan administered Kashmir and Chinese administrated Kashmir as well..i.e..if ever voting takes place there!!

Yes it can, but we support implementing the UNSC resolutions, unlike India. It is disingenuous for an Indian to suggest that to a Pakistani since it is India that originally backed off from UNSC referendum and the plebiscite, and even now refuses to conduct one.

Heck, India does not even want to consider the territory 'disputed', despite agreeing to the UNSC resolutions indicating just that. So the onus is entirely upon India on that count.

 

[Flintlock]

Yes it can, but we support implementing the UNSC resolutions, unlike India. It is disingenuous for an Indian to suggest that to a Pakistani since it is India that originally backed off from UNSC referendum and the plebiscite, and even now refuses to conduct one.

Heck, India does not even want to consider the territory 'disputed', despite agreeing to the UNSC resolutions indicating just that. So the onus is entirely upon India on that count.

Well, like I've always said, since Pakistan is so keen to implement the UN resolution, why don't you convince China and do it together with them?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, like I've always said, since Pakistan is so keen to implement the UN resolution, why don't you convince China and do it together with them?

How does that affect anything with the territory occupied by India, which is where Pakistan's concern is?

 

[Flintlock]

How does that affect anything with the territory occupied by India, which is where Pakistan's concern is?

Well, it doesn't, but then you can't have double standards now can you?

If Pakistan believes in the validity of the UN resolution, they should damn well implement it. Since they haven't implemented it, its quite obvious that they have no intention of doing so.

 

[Contrarian]

Fact of the matter-this time, the voter percentage has been the highest ever recorded and this is DESPITE the big agitations and calls for secession.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, it doesn't, but then you can't have double standards now can you?

If Pakistan believes in the validity of the UN resolution, they should damn well implement it. Since they haven't implemented it, its quite obvious that they have no intention of doing so.

Yes we should implement the UNSC resolutions, and guess what they require? Referendum in ALL of J&K, and withdrawal of both militaries, so perhaps India should 'damn well' actually follow its international obligations, or even its obligations under the rules of Partition (plebiscite). Pakistan is not the one refusing to do so.

The double standard's and perfidy are all India's here.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fact of the matter-this time, the voter percentage has been the highest ever recorded and this is DESPITE the big agitations and calls for secession.

Certainly, and the kashmiris should be commended on coming out to vote in parties that that might improve their lives while this dispute drags on, but these are pretty much the same arguments we were hearing before the recent set of protests.

In any case, if India really thinks this means the Kashmiris are with them, settling the dispute as required through a referendum should perfectly acceptable and favorable for India, no!

My guess is that, as has happened so far, India won't have the ball-s to find out.

 

[Flintlock]

Certainly, and the kashmiris should be commended on coming out to vote in parties that that might improve their lives while this dispute drags on, but these are pretty much the same arguments we were hearing before the recent set of protests.

In any case, if India really thinks this means the Kashmiris are with them, settling the dispute as required through a referendum should perfectly acceptable and favorable for India, no!

My guess is that, as has happened so far, India won't have the ball-s to find out.

Well one thing is clear enough - the boycott calls from separatist leaders haven't caught on.

 

[Vinod2070]

I think for some of the separatists, this is the last election they are boycotting.

Some of them have one leg in the grave and the second on a banana peel. Things may start getting better after some of the worst separatist leaders depart from the scene.

 

[johnee]

I think for some of the separatists, this is the last election they are boycotting.

Some of them have one leg in the grave and the second on a banana peel. Things may start getting better after some of the worst separatist leaders depart from the scene.

maybe.......but new delhi should also take some more proactive measures.....like investing in kashmir, improving the infrastructure, and increasing the job oppurtunities, resettling the kashmiri pandits and repealing article 320........

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think for some of the separatists, this is the last election they are boycotting.

Some of them have one leg in the grave and the second on a banana peel. Things may start getting better after some of the worst separatist leaders depart from the scene.

The boycotts may end, I think they should, since Indian dillydallying on the Kashmir dispute shows no sign of abating (or for that matter on any issue, the IWC stating that it is going to the WB for compensation now since the Indians are now dillydallying on their reported pledge to release water as compensation for Pakistani losses).

The seperatist leaders are not what counts when it comes to the sentiment in the valley - the separatists are strong because they get support from the people, and the people want an end to occupation, not the other way around.

The people of Quebec, as part of Canada, were peaceful and participated in the political process and governance under the Canadian constitution - the province was developed, attracted investment etc. Yet Quebec came very, very close to seceding from Canada in the referendum that was held there. And this was without any of the historical, ideological and religious dynamics that Pakistan brings to the table in Kashmir.

Pakistan must continue to reach out to the Kashmiris and advocate for their legal and human right to determine through a referendum their destiny. We must continue to invest in AK to ensure the region develops, we must ensure our media and our values reach Kashmiris and act as a continuous reminder of all those things.

In essence, we have won the ideological battle so far, and won it better through peace than violent militancy, and we must continue those efforts to retain our advantage.

 

[johnee]

In essence, we have won the ideological battle so far, and won it better through peace than violent militancy, and we must continue those efforts to retain our advantage.

I agree that pak has won the ideological battle till now..........but are you sure about the 'peace' bit........

I mean.....it was not all peace.....it had a fair share of 'jihad' involved in it.....isnt it!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I agree that pak has won the ideological battle till now..........but are you sure about the 'peace' bit........

I mean.....it was not all peace.....it had a fair share of 'jihad' involved in it.....isnt it!

The recent massive protests came about during a period of extended peace, when Pakistan had all but ended support for cross border militancy. That indicates that peace worked better than militancy. Some of the militant groups were getting out of hand, and becoming more extremist, targeting the locals as well as trying to enforce extremist Islam. As such they were a liability, and woudl have turned the population against Pakistan.

There is a strong message in the turnout (even if I disagree with the official figures, its still decent), that the Kashmiris may want independence and the option to exercise their legal and moral rights, but they also want to live a decent and peaceful life while they struggle for that right. Pakistan should heed that message - which it seems it has for the last 6-7 years or so, even if the initial reasons for removing support for militancy were not those that I articulated here.

 

[Contrarian]

Certainly, and the kashmiris should be commended on coming out to vote in parties that that might improve their lives while this dispute drags on, but these are pretty much the same arguments we were hearing before the recent set of protests.

In any case, if India really thinks this means the Kashmiris are with them, settling the dispute as required through a referendum should perfectly acceptable and favorable for India, no!

My guess is that, as has happened so far, India won't have the ball-s to find out.

Cessation is Not an option. They have to learn to live with the things as they are-or they might choose to go to the ballot box and ensure that Kashmir develops in a great manner.
If they become peaceful and vote then the military will gradually decrease its presence in Kashmir, otherwise if there is more militancy, there will be more troops which itself is troublesome to the people there.

In both the cases, there is no cessation.

The result of Pakistan becoming a global terrorist transit center has been India swamping the valley with troops. What do you think the militancy accomplished apart from troubling Pakistan? Nothing. And when you talk of J&K-Jammu and Leh/Laddakh are quite separate from Kashmir. They will stay on-its a fight for the Valley only.

Should this generation refuse to accept this, the next one will and if the next one refuses, then the one after that will. Cessation is not an option.