Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Tuahaa]

Whatever might be reason of their anger, they vented their anger on a wrong place, in a wring, bigoted way. Sorry no sympathy this time. Burning church because some loony burning book in other part of world is fanatic thing to do, that too of stupid kinds.

Of course. It is quite a stupid thing.

Uneducated people (no offense meant- it happens in both Indian and Pakistan) take issues into their own hands in a way that it achieves nothing. For example, Islam does not allow burning down churches because of some 'fanatic from the other part of the world' but that does not mean some Muslims will not do it (hence, in my opinion, why we Muslims were more successful in the past than now).

However, leaving that aside, these bullets were fired from the guns of Indian troops were meant to control the crowd (albeit a very cruel and inhumane way to do so), not to 'take revenge' for the church burnings.

I also don't agree that the protesters that burnt the church deserve to die- just like Qur'an burnings are 'a freedom of speech', shouldn't the church burning be 'free speech' as a retaliation? Not that it's right, of course

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Dont bother. You cannot win over us in the west with the fanatical Islamic version. We like to deal with only moderate Islamic parties and Islamic intellectuals. I saw videos of Kashmir protests and they look right out of some fanatical Islamic country with uneducated, rag tag people hurling stones. No one will support a movement like that, just to let you know.

hey numbnuts,

I wasnt asking for the commenters to ''take sides''

I dont think the views on a Yahoo forum matter. But what is important is to clear misconceptions and expose factually incorrect, hypocritical statements (many of which, unfortunately, seem to be coming from your fellow countrymen)

Nobody was interested in your little rants and diatribes on this forum, take my post or leave it.

Incidentally, i aimed it more for PAKISTANIS --as it seems there are misconceptions and stereotypes against them which need to be corrected. Again, learn to comprehend what you read first.

 

[justanobserver]

just like Qur'an burnings are 'a freedom of speech', shouldn't the church burning be 'free speech' as a retaliation? Not that it's right, of course

Are you insane ??

How the f&ck is church burning free speech!! (speech?!!)

What you're talking about is anarchy!

Hell let's burn buildings, kill people, **** women all in the name of free "speech"

 

[astodome]

14 kashmiris killed...i hope there will not be 20 kashmiri's killed day after tomorrow..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Are you insane ??

How the f&ck is church burning free speech!! (speech?!!)

What you're talking about is anarchy!

Hell let's burn buildings, kill people, **** women all in the name of free "speech"

so how is Quran burning freedom of speech?

you should listen to yourself sometime, ''observer''

 

[alibaz]

Police firing kills 13 protesters in Indian Occupied Kashmir
At least 13 protesters have been killed in clashes with police troops in Indian Occupied Kashmir that have been partly fueled by a report of a Quran being desecrated in the United States.
The death toll Monday was the highest since separatist protests broke out in June against Indian rule in the disputed region.
Tens of thousands of violent anti-Indian demonstrators ignored a curfew and flooded the streets, burning government buildings and throwing rocks at police stations.
A police officer said security forces shot at some of the crowds, killing 13 people and wounding dozens more. The officer spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak with media.

Dunya TV - Pakistan | Police firing kills 13 protesters in Indian Occupied Kashmir

 

[muse]

Meanwhile, in the US and India's Afghanistan:

September 12, 2010
2 Afghans Die in Protest Over Koran Burning
By ALISSA J. RUBIN

KABUL, Afghanistan — Two Afghans died in a remote area of eastern Afghanistan on Sunday when the police fired into a crowd protesting the planned burning of the Koran in Florida, a day after the burning had been called off.

The deaths bring to three the number of Afghans killed in demonstrations tied to the threat made by Terry Jones, a Florida pastor, to burn the Koran on the anniversary of the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11.

Mr. Jones relented under intense pressure from the Obama administration and others, but not before tapping a deep well of anger among Afghans. It was likely that many of those protesting on Sunday in Baraki-e-Barak, a district in western Logar Province, had not heard the news. Mass media is scant in the region.

As of Sunday night there had been no reports on local television about a couple of Koran burnings that did take place on Sunday in Tennessee.

The crowd chanted anti-American slogans, including “death to Americans,” “death to Obama,” and “death to Jews.”

But its violence was directed at the Afghan government, which is seen as beholden to the United States. “A group of protesters engaged with police at around noon and started to throw rocks and bricks at police, wounding some policemen," said Din Mohammad Darwish, spokesman for the governor of Logar Province.

The previous day, the demonstrators burned a police checkpoint, he said. On Sunday, the police fired to stop the crowd from advancing on the district center and burning it, said Mr. Darwish. The shots wounded six people, two of them critically, and they died while being taken for medical treatment.

The planned Koran burning touched a raw nerve in a region deeply proud of its Muslim faith.

“Afghans fought for 30 years against Communism and during mujahedeen time and Afghans are ready to die for their religion and customs and traditions,” said Maulavi Qalamuddin, a former Taliban from Baraki-e-Barak, who spent nearly seven years in detention at Bagram Airbase. “Whenever someone does something against their values and religion they are quick to anger.”

He said that the protest reflected a broadly popular frustration with the government because the demonstrators included “shopkeepers, teachers and taxi drivers who have to deal with the government every day,” and not people from remote areas of the district.

Muhammad Alam, a high school teacher in the provincial capital, agreed that there was serious disillusionment with the government, although he suspected that the Taliban had also stoked emotions on Sunday.

“In Logar, there is a mixture of Taliban motivating people to do this demonstration and people not being happy with the current administration,” he said. “This regime is based on bribery. You cannot do anything unless you pay a bribe to the government. People are jobless. People are fed up with the current government.”

When the Americans or other foreigners pay for projects, the money is whittled away by corrupt officials, he said. “Needy people cannot get anything at all, so that is why people are resorting to demonstrations to show their anger in any way possible.”

Also on Sunday, NATO officials conceded that civilians may have been killed in a Sept. 2 strike aimed at a man believed to be the Taliban deputy shadow governor of Takhar Province in northern Afghanistan. A NATO statement said that an investigation confirmed that the man, who was associated with the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, had been killed, but could not rule out the possibility that civilians were also killed.

President Hamid Karzai, citing reports from local officials, said at the time that the airstrikes killed at least 10 civilians and wounded 3, including a parliamentary candidate who was in the convoy with several campaign workers. The candidate, Abdul Wahid Khurasani, said that the convoy of six vehicles struck by two NATO rockets was part of his campaign team and that the vehicles were draped with campaign posters.

NATO officials disputed that description on Sunday. The NATO statement said there were no campaign signs on the vehicles. They said only one vehicle was struck.

“We are very confident that the targeted individual was in the vehicle struck by the air weapons team and was killed,” said Italian Army Brig. Gen. Luigi Scollo of the Italian Army, the Joint Command operations chief for the NATO forces. “The question remains why an election official or candidate was traveling with a known terrorist.”


Sangar Rahimi contributed reporting.

 

[justanobserver]

so how is Quran burning freedom of speech?

you should listen to yourself sometime, ''observer''

Did I ever support Quran burning ?

But justifying destruction of property (in the name of free "speech"), because some moron 1000s of miles away wanted to burn a Holy book, is plain dumb.

 

[alibaz]

Indian police shot dead 13 protestors, Manmohan calls APC

OCCUPIED SRINAGAR: Indian police shot dead 13 people in held Kashmir on Monday as stone-throwing rioters defied curfews and torched a Christian school in a surge of anger stoked by the desecration of the Holy Quran.

The death toll was the highest for a single day since a wave of anti-India demonstrations began three months ago, with 84 civilians now killed in unrest in the disputed Muslim-majority region. One policeman also died Monday.

In New Delhi, the cabinet met to discuss steps to defuse the tension, but decided against heeding calls from some in the government to partially lift a 20-year-old emergency law that is despised by many in Kashmir.

The cabinet said it was "deeply distressed" by the unrest, but offered no new initiatives besides an all-party meeting for later in the week to discuss solutions.

Some of Monday's worst rioting was reported in Tangmarg village, 40 kilometres (25 miles) from the region's main town of Srinagar, where a crowd chanted anti-US and pro-Islam slogans before burning down a missionary school.

No one was injured in the fire at Tyndale Biscoe School, but at least five civilians were killed when security forces opened fire on the crowd as it attempted to set fire to government buildings, local police said.

"The loss of property has been huge," police official Kuldeep Khoda told reporters in Srinagar, detailing the day's unrest which saw at least one mob attack a camp of heavily armed paramilitary forces.

He confirmed that 13 civilians had been killed and one policeman had also died. He said 45 protesters and 130 policemen had been injured, while 52 people were arrested.

"We are taking necessary measures to prevent loss of life and property all over the Kashmir valley," he added.

The US ambassador to India, Timothy J. Roemer, said he was "dismayed" to
see the reports of violence and repeated President Barack Obama's condemnation of the Quran-ripping.

Kashmiri leader Syed Ali Geelani, who has orchestrated recent anti-India demonstrations, also called for calm and for Christians to be protected.

"I urge the Muslims to protect the members of minority community and their
religious places. We should at any cost maintain the age-old communal harmony and brotherhood for which Kashmir is known the world over," he said.

"The youth of Kashmir are our citizens and their grievances have to be addressed," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told military commanders in New Delhi.

"We are willing to talk to every person or group which abjures violence, within the framework of our constitution."

He later held talks with senior ministers on whether to lift the Armed Forces Special Powers Act in four districts of the region, but decided against taking any action.

The act was passed in 1958 and extended to Kashmir in 1990.

Human rights groups and local politicians have long campaigned against it, saying the law encourages abuses by Indian forces.

It gives Indian army and paramilitary troops sweeping powers to open fire, search houses, detain suspects and confiscate property, as well as protecting soldiers from prosecution.

Under-fire Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah has urged the federal government to withdraw the act, but has met with strong resistance from the Indian military.

Indian police shot dead 13 protestors, Manmohan calls APC - GEO.tv

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Why dont we have a "YAWN" emoticon/smiley?
Its really needed!

If you're so sleepy, I suggest you simply log-off for as long as you like and go back to your chaarpai

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

In pictures: Kashmir protests​

13 September 2010 Last updated at 13:10 ET

At least 18 people have been killed and more than 100 wounded after police opened fire on separatist protesters in Indian-administered Kashmir.

Anti-India street protests that have been taking place across the disputed territory since June escalated amid reports that a Koran had been desecrated in the US over the weekend.

Crowds burned at least four government buildings. A policeman was also killed after being hit by a lorry driven by demonstrators.

As funerals for the victims were held, the Indian cabinet called an all-party meeting for Wednesday to discuss the violence. However, it put off a decision on whether to lift controversial security laws.

BBC News - In pictures: Kashmir protests

 

[InPhilTraitor]

funny they are also protesting Obama and USA.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Did I ever support Quran burning ?

But justifying destruction of property (in the name of free "speech"), because some moron 1000s of miles away wanted to burn a Holy book, is plain dumb.

I don't know what you supported or what your views are since I do not know you; nor do I really care to.

We can both agree that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I personally am very against occupied Kashmiris burning a Church down. It wont be good for their cause, it would be counter-productive.

but to think that some people here and there in Kashmir (or anywhere in the world for that matter) wont be OFFENDED by such actions is ludicrous. Some people vent their anger in unproductive ways.


as far as this topic is concerned, it is imperative that Kashmiris stick to the mission --resisting the illegal occupation, and also high-lighting it (to the world) as well. I would discourage them from Church burning.

in all honesty, i think the Church burning hysteria (if thats what it is) is being taken out of proportion; same as the Quran ordeal. The main issue here is to highlight hindustans actions in Kashmir, and there should be no deviation from the mission --regardless of how the media portrays and ''packages'' the story

 

[muse]

Terrorists, eh?

 

[gubbi]

yet refuse that right to the people of Kashmir, as promised them in the UN.

Whatever makes you feel happy.

Snide comments don't change the fact that the majority of the world sees J&k as disputed territory. Lets not forget that it is only on google.in that the delusional map of Kashmir is displayed, and reality shown to the rest of the world.

No, the people of Kashmir were in fact up in rebellion against the disctator Mahrajah and his atrocities and discrimination against the local Muslim population, and it was the dictator that invited India into Kashmir, not the people of Kashmir.

here read this:

Before and after the withdrawal of the British from India in 1947, the princely state of Kashmir and Jammu came under pressure from both India and Pakistan to agree to become part of one of the newly independent countries. According to the instruments of accession relating to the Partition of India, the rulers of princely states were to be given the choice of either acceding to India or Pakistan, or remaining independent. The Maharaja of Kashmir, Hari Singh chose the latter and tried to avoid accession to either country. When British forces ceded responsibility for security to the two dominions, Muslim troops rebelled in the some state force units and alongwith Pashtun tribals from the North West Frontier Province (NWFP), invaded the state, thereby triggering the war.
Fearing that his forces would be unable to withstand the assault, the Maharaja asked for Indian military assistance. India set a condition that Kashmir must accede to India for it to receive assistance. Whereupon the Government of India recognized the accession of the erstwhile princely state to India, and was considered the new Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, Indian troops were sent to the state to defend it against the Pakistani forces. The legitimacy of this accession is still disputed.
Pakistan was of the view that the Maharaja of Kashmir had no right to call in the Indian Army, because it held that the Maharaja of Kashmir was not a heredity ruler, that he was merely a British appointee.[citation needed] There had been no such position as the "Maharaja of Kashmir" prior to British rule. Hence Pakistan decided to take action,

What was Pakistan's justification for intervention? None whatsoever, just a trouble maker and that set the ball rolling for all the troubles that Pakistan faces today.

And again, you cannot argue for the legitimacy of accession when India herself ignored accession in the case of Junagadh and Hyderabad.

You dont get it, do ya? It very simple, I have said it earlier and will say it again.
Post independence, it was mad rush for land grab to consolidate borders by both countries. India played her cards very nicely and came up tops. Simple. Could have been better with Kashmir, if Nehru had played those cards skillfully but got misguided just like he got misguided with China.
As for Junagadh, Pakistan did not have her forces in those territories, so could not "defend". Added to that is the hesitancy shown by your leaders (probably because of the Hindu majority population) to accept accession, which gave Indian authorities a reason to act, and act they did. Rest is History!

That is the definition of colonization and the eradication of a distinct community, Kashmiris.

You couldnt be more wrong. Eradication, you say? Where?
On the contrary, India has gone to extreme pains to preserve the Kashmiri culture and its people by giving them unprecedented sops - unavailable to common Indians. And you talk about eradication? Seriously, that deserves a LOL.
What China did to Tibetans can be considered as what you put forth. Guess India has to do a Tibet in Kashmir. Then all the flak that India faces will be justified. I say, India should do a Tibet in Kashmir.

Ahh, so when did Pakistan make a decision to hold a plebiscite in Junagadh?

Where did I say Pakistan decided to hold a plebiscite in Junagadh?

Not at all. Jinnah's speech addressing all religious groups in Pakistan after Pakistan's independence clearly explains that. And you have not provided any legal justification against the accession of Junagadh to Pakistan. Quite frankly, Pakistan's ideology is none of your business in the context of accessions.

Jinnah's speech, though revered, can be considered a farce. The whole reason for Pakistan's creation as Junnah put it, was that Muslims and Hindus of the subcontinent cannot co-exist in peace! How wrong he was! And then after the creation of Pakistan, he makes this speech! What do you make of it?

"Quite frankly, Pakistan's ideology is none of your business in the context of accessions."
Whoa! didnt see THAT coming. That was NOT expected from you. Anyway, why is Pakistan's ideology none of my business, when we are arguing about justifications?

Pakistan accepted Junagadh's accession, the instrument of accession was delivered to Pakistan, and the communication between India and Pakistan clearly explain Pakistan's position on the issue. Hyderabad never actually acceded to either country before it was invaded by India.

The logistical issues of running Junagadh were Pakistan's problem to deal with, not yours. Pakistan did after all have two wings separated by an even larger expanse of Indian territory than Junagadh.

Again, there is no legal or 'moral' case you have against the accession of Junagadh to Pakistan.

Atleast in India's defense, India did not show hypocrisy in calling for a plebiscite in those areas. It was plain - joins us, you dont have a choice. Period.
Similar was the case for Kashmir. India intervened only AFTER accession was signed. However, Pakistan intervened on a flimsy pretext of "helping" people against supposed "atrocities" (which was in fact rebellion by some soldiers who wanted to join Pakistan for being a Muslim state), and created this mess.