Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[RamGorur]

While the GoP would prefer to argue differently, it has abided with the international consensus on G-B being a part of the disputed territory of J&K and not integrated it into Pakistan as a fifth province, despite tremendous popular demand inside G-B for such a move. That directly implies that a plebiscite would include G-B as well, and including G-B would in fact be in Pakistan's favor (in case of a single plebiscite over all of J&K) given the millions of votes that it would bring in favor of Pakistan.

Is it the official stance of GoP or is it what you think is the official stance of GoP. Can you please direct me to some official resource on this matter. It will be greatly appreciated.

Perhaps, G-B will vote in favour of Pakistan. But the question was would they ever be given a chance to be 'azad'? The import of that question, that you missed, is will the people of G-B be allowed to organise political or mass awareness movements about 'azadi'?

Irrelevant to the point of allowing the Kashmiris to exercise self-determination.

Relevant to the point of illustrating P0K doesn't enjoy 'azadi', as opposed to what was insinuated by the original poster.

Once tripartite negotiations between the Kashmiris, India and Pakistan on conducting a plebiscite start, who knows. But India first has to commit to implementing its promise of allowing the Kashmiris to exercise their right to self-determination. These 'what if's' can only be addressed once that irrational nationalism driving Indian occupation of Kashmir ends.

Regardless of India's stand on 'right to self-determination, nothing stops GoP, on clarifying its position on 'azadi'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Renegotiated? Kashmir as an independent state is not economically viable ... countries on both sides know that and the whole world agrees that. Then why do you try to support for something which will create more chaos for the people in Kashmir?

Concerns over the economic infeasibility of ab independent Kashmir can be raised with the leadership of the various Kashmiri groups and those in favor of outright independence can be given an opportunity to present their case.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Is it the official stance of GoP or is it what you think is the official stance of GoP. Can you please direct me to some official resource on this matter. It will be greatly appreciated.

It is obviously the official stance of Pakistan - as for a source, check the constitution of Pakistan and let me know if G-B exists in it as a fifth province or not.

Perhaps, G-B will vote in favour of Pakistan. But the question was would they ever be given a chance to be 'azad'? The import of that question, that you missed, is will the people of G-B be allowed to organise political or mass awareness movements about 'azadi'?

In preparations for a plebiscite, once agreed to be implemented, if it included that option, then why not?

Relevant to the point of illustrating P0K doesn't enjoy 'azadi', as opposed to what was insinuated by the original poster.

Irrelevant to the point of the Kashmir right of self-determination denied by India.

Regardless of India's stand on 'right to self-determination, nothing stops GoP, on clarifying its position on 'azadi'.

So long as India continues to deny the Kashmiris their right to self-determination, any position 'clarified' by Pakistan is meaningless for the Kashmiris.

Once work on implementing the plebiscite starts, each sides position will be crystal clear to the Kashmiris.

 

[Hulk]

Well I am willing to accept we are immoral people and also we will never give Kashmir. Let Pakistan show leadership and declare Azad Kashmir as Independent nation.

 

[Jackdaws]

The only way out of this quagmire since Pakistan keeps harping on plebiscite is - scrap Article 370 - allow free movement of people like Pakistan allows into their part of Kashmir and conduct the plebiscite.

 

[gubbi]

So long as India continues to deny the Kashmiris their right to self-determination, any position 'clarified' by Pakistan is meaningless for the Kashmiris.

Why? Are they a special breed that they 'deserve' a "self-determination"? Hmmn, NO. There wont be any plebiscite, no matter how many reams of paper be written on the subject! Its silly to assume that India will just give up that piece of strategic real estate for those few stone pelters.

Once work on implementing the plebiscite starts, each sides position will be crystal clear to the Kashmiris.

What part of Resolution 47 -filed under chapter VI did you miss. The one that it is non-binding? Or the one that Pakistan has to first withdraw all its troops from the territories before India withdraws its troops? Or the fact that Pakistan conveniently chose to ignore that clause of the resolution and yet keeps harping on a plebiscite?

What part of Pakistan invading a then independent state of Kashmir on a false pretext did you miss? And yes, India was asked for help, and we did but on a condition that Kashmir accede to the Indian union. Nothing comes for free. A plebiscite was promised to the whole of Kashmir, not a part of it. Once we get the whole of Kashmir, we will THEN decide what to do.

 

[John Doe]

Terrorists kill mother-daughter duo in Kashmir - India - DNA

With life at a near standstill due to strikesand curfew, Shakeela Gorsi took her 9-year-old daughter Zareena to an army medical camp in sheer desperation. Both paid with their lives.

Four militants, suspected to be from Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), barged into the house of Mohammad Hussain Gorsi in Nadimarg in Dhamal Hanjipura area of Kulgam district, some 80km from Srinagar, around 9pm yesterday.

Their mission was to punish Gorsi for the 'sin' committed by his wife by seeking army's medical help, police said.

The man was not not at home.His wife and daughter begged for forgiveness but their pleas did not not impress the terrorists who are active in the area. They pumped bullets into the mother and the daughter.

The local medical centre in the village was closed because of the strike call given by the separatists. Therefore the mother-daughter duo went to the nearby medical camp of army's Rashtriya Rifles.

Nandimarg area had witnessed brutal massacre of 24 Kashmiri pandits on March 23, 2003.

While the focus remains on the street protests that have disrupted normal life in the valley for about two months now now, incidents of selective militant attacks take place from time to time.

The militants were also active in Pulwama district where they killed Ghulam Nabi Wani, an employee of the Social Welfare Department at Chakoora, 45km from Srinagar, last night. His 'crime' is not not known.

Yet another militant attack took place in the wee hours of today when militants attacked the residence of the ruling National Conference MLA Mohammad Ashraf Ganai in Sopore, their second attack on him in the last five days.

A group of heavily-armed militants fired at the residence of the MLA but the guards posted there retaliated, the police said, adding there was no no loss of life.

In their first attack on Aug 18 the militants had killed a Special Police Officer and injured two police constables on duty at the residence of Ganai, who was not not present on both the occasions.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why? Are they a special breed that they 'deserve' a "self-determination"?

Yes - unlike other territories incorporated into the modern States of India and Pakistan, the Kashmiris were not given the choice to choose which state to become a part of, a right established by India's commitment to the same, as well as her actions in Junagadh and Hyderabad, and the UN Millennium Declaration.

What part of Resolution 47 -filed under chapter VI did you miss. The one that it is non-binding? Or the one that Pakistan has to first withdraw all its troops from the territories before India withdraws its troops? Or the fact that Pakistan conveniently chose to ignore that clause of the resolution and yet keeps harping on a plebiscite?

Nonsense - instead of raising the same red-herring and canards time and time again, read through the UNSC resolutions thread and respond there. Pakistan was not under an obligation to withdraw militarily - various UN commissions were formed to come up with demilitarization and plebiscite plans, that India rejected, and therefore could not be implemented. Many of those demilitarization plans Pakistan in fact accepted.

What part of Pakistan invading a then independent state of Kashmir on a false pretext did you miss? And yes, India was asked for help, and we did but on a condition that Kashmir accede to the Indian union. Nothing comes for free. A plebiscite was promised to the whole of Kashmir, not a part of it. Once we get the whole of Kashmir, we will THEN decide what to do.

The UNSC resolutions and the plans recommended by the various UN commissions do not agree with your position entirely. Pick a plan, or go back to the UN to have another commission formed to recommend another demilitarization plan and implementation can go from there.

Also don't forget the part where India invaded and occupied the States of Junagadh and Hyderabad, where the former had acceded to Pakistan, and India argued that accession was meaningless and 'self-determination' was legitimacy, at least as far as Hindu's were concerned.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How do we know this was not done by Indian security forces?

 

[karan.1970]

How do we know this was not done by Indian security forces?

The same way as we know that yesterday's blasts and assassination of MNA Maulana Noor Mohammed in Pakistan were not done by ISI.

 

[RamGorur]

It is obviously the official stance of Pakistan - as for a source, check the constitution of Pakistan and let me know if G-B exists in it as a fifth province or not.

I am sure it is not included in Pakistani constitution. But does that mean that Pakistan is open to holding a plebiscite in G-B in the same way as it demands to be held on the Indian side. I needed a resource to verify this position.

In preparations for a plebiscite, once agreed to be implemented, if it included that option, then why not?

But doesn’t GoP stand for ‘right’ to self-determination. Why then, their ‘right’ to be self-aware and ‘right’ to pursue a political discourse to explore all alternatives, which are inherent part of ‘right to self-determination’, are held hostage to the preparations for a plebiscite.

Irrelevant to the point of the Kashmir right of self-determination denied by India.

Relevant to the point of the original poster’s insinuation. This is the problem that arises when someone jumps in between.

So long as India continues to deny the Kashmiris their right to self-determination, any position 'clarified' by Pakistan is meaningless for the Kashmiris.

So long as Pakistan continues to not clarify its stand on ‘azadi’, its claim to stand for Kashmiris’ right looks only pretentious and gives the impression that it is stands for their ‘right’ to self-determination, so long as it confirms its own interest.

Once work on implementing the plebiscite starts, each sides position will be crystal clear to the Kashmiris.

It happened once upon a time and Pakistan did make its position ‘crystal clear’ – Kashmiris not to be a party at UN and independence not to be an option.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The same way as we know that yesterday's blasts and assassination of MNA Maulana Noor Mohammed in Pakistan were not done by ISI. Thru reports coming out of the place.

Yes, and reports immediately suggest that the LeT was involved eh?

The reports from Pakistan at least point out that no group claimed responsibility, and which groups (Uzbeks) Noor Mohmammed was actively against.

Which group were these women against?

There are existing reports blaming Indian security forces for the rape, torture and murder of tens of thousands of Kashmiris.

Were these women raped and then murdered, and staged to look like a militant killing to deflect blame from the Indian security forces?

 

[WAQAS119]

'Terrorists kill mother-daughter duo in Kashmir'

Those terrorists must be Indian Army men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sasuke]

OMG ... u guys can't accept the reality right??? Our media is pretty crazy about these incidents and if there some big scoop I don't think they will let go of anyone.

Anyways .... those bigot terrorists who kill innocent people ... impotent mfs shud be killed like pigs!!!
The family must the many of those who don't support those stone pelting incidents.

 

[John Doe]

How do we know this was not done by Indian security forces?

Nothing is impossible,of course. On the other hand, I find it impossible to see a conspiracy in everything.

Honestly, there are way too many conspiracy theories floating about in this forum.

I'll end by repeating that nothing is impossible, you just might be correct after all, but very very very unlikely.