Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[karan.1970]

I have been to J&K quite recently. There is a very famous hindu temple near Jammu (not the Amarnath temple) that i visited. Was fairly nice and peaceful. And cell phones worked perfectly well..

 

[karan.1970]

About time the all is well mantra should come to an end. India might be looking for its very own Afghanistan in near future. The whole of Kashmiris and their indigenous uprising being blamed on ISI and Afghan heron only brings two simple questions.

1. If ISI can keep whole of Kashmir stirring for 62 years, this is a feat extraordinary. CIA and Mossad spies should be lining up in Islamabad for training.

2. If this is cause by smuggled Afghan herion, then pity India for being unable to control few thousand vulnerable drug addicts. Which means Indian armed forces are totally incompetent.

Deleted--Not worth it---

 

[Peshwa]

It also confirms indian media is not free and is controlled by hindus.

We know now what indian media is made up of and how much can it be trusted when they write against Kashmiris.

Frankly...no one is looking for a vote of trust from you......

We worry about those that matter....Thank you very much!

 

[Jackdaws]

I am expecting stones being pelted at me by indian members(irony) but do you ever see a generation of Indians growing up, looking at kashmir and saying 'Naah, not worth the bother' ?

Discuss under what conditions this is possible, if at all.

Fact is most Indians have never been to Kashmir and most Kashmiris have never been to rest of India. Since the rest of India is united - even the Maoists talk of overthrowing the government - not of balkanizing India - we don't have any empathy with the Kashmiris.

However, I do have Kashmiri Muslim friends. When I heard some stories of how the Army behaves with the local population - I can see why people are angry. I too would be if my brother was kidnapped and beaten black and blue simply because some security guy liked his watch and he refused to hand it over.

On the flip side, the same guy now resides in Bombay and he wonders what the fuss is all about - everyone here seems to get along and he is shocked at seeing Muslims drink, inter-marry people of other faiths etc. It was like a culture shock for him.

And let's be honest - anyone who has studied history can tell you that while the Treaty of Accession was signed - only communication and foreign affairs were to be handled by India and Kashmir would have its own Prime Minister. We also know that even in 1965 - it was the local Kashmiris who told India about the Pakistani invasion.

But then you have the circumvention of democracy by trying to completely integrate Kashmir as an Indian state. I can see Kashmir becoming a semi-independent state like Scotland is in UK - own flag, own anthem, own parliament, own sports team etc. As an Indian, I would even be fine with it. Integration with Pakistan?? LOL - talk about moving the people from the frying pan to the fire. It's not going to happen.

Complete independence - that is a crazy pipe dream. It would mean Kashmir would be landlocked nation and 3 big countries would have to cede their lands to make an independent Kashmir - India, Pakistan and China. They are not exactly the giving types. Also, given the sizeable Hindu and Buddhist populations - if it goes the Pakistan way and becomes a theocratic Muslim state with blasphemy laws and people signing documents insulting the Ahmaddiyas - then current Indian citizens of Hindu and Buddhist faiths automatically become secondary citizens. I am unsure of the religious demographics of China occupied Kashmir but that too could be a roadblock.

 

[banned]

The vision of Akhan bharat stems from main stream indian fairly tales talking about never ending kingdoms of their legendary warriors of gods. Such ambitions have historically taken India on a back and forth swing of unity and balkanization. The last balkanization of India in modern time was pre-colonial princely India. India, sadly once againt is on rail road of legendy kingdom neglecting its own masses of destitute poor. While the Indian states are lobbying for Chinese investment in infrastructure the Indian money is going towards weapon tenders.

However, I do have Kashmiri Muslim friends. When I heard some stories of how the Army behaves with the local population - I can see why people are angry. I too would be if my brother was kidnapped and beaten black and blue simply because some security guy liked his watch and he refused to hand it over.

This is not the matter of "mere" anger. The Kashmirs are being collective capitives in a state sponsored seige. Also if Kashmirs love Indian union so much then why soo many Kashmirs haven't been to India?? Or India is too afraid of reality spilling out? Dont blame it on risk of "Pakistani infiltrators". That doesn't make sense.

 

[whocares]

Fact is most Indians have never been to Kashmir and most Kashmiris have never been to rest of India. Since the rest of India is united - even the Maoists talk of overthrowing the government - not of balkanizing India - we don't have any empathy with the Kashmiris.

However, I do have Kashmiri Muslim friends. When I heard some stories of how the Army behaves with the local population - I can see why people are angry. I too would be if my brother was kidnapped and beaten black and blue simply because some security guy liked his watch and he refused to hand it over.

On the flip side, the same guy now resides in Bombay and he wonders what the fuss is all about - everyone here seems to get along and he is shocked at seeing Muslims drink, inter-marry people of other faiths etc. It was like a culture shock for him.

And let's be honest - anyone who has studied history can tell you that while the Treaty of Accession was signed - only communication and foreign affairs were to be handled by India and Kashmir would have its own Prime Minister. We also know that even in 1965 - it was the local Kashmiris who told India about the Pakistani invasion.

But then you have the circumvention of democracy by trying to completely integrate Kashmir as an Indian state. I can see Kashmir becoming a semi-independent state like Scotland is in UK - own flag, own anthem, own parliament, own sports team etc. As an Indian, I would even be fine with it. Integration with Pakistan?? LOL - talk about moving the people from the frying pan to the fire. It's not going to happen.

Complete independence - that is a crazy pipe dream. It would mean Kashmir would be landlocked nation and 3 big countries would have to cede their lands to make an independent Kashmir - India, Pakistan and China. They are not exactly the giving types. Also, given the sizeable Hindu and Buddhist populations - if it goes the Pakistan way and becomes a theocratic Muslim state with blasphemy laws and people signing documents insulting the Ahmaddiyas - then current Indian citizens of Hindu and Buddhist faiths automatically become secondary citizens. I am unsure of the religious demographics of China occupied Kashmir but that too could be a roadblock.

china occupied kashmir is unpopulated. i kinda agree with you on this actually. more autonomy and withdrawal of security forces from civilian areas is definitely on the cards and something that should kickstart the normalization of cultural and economic relations.

it could backfire for all you know, stoking even more belligerence from interests who want nothing short of redrawing the border.

 

[Jackdaws]

Regarding the Indian Muslim and Pakistan discussion - here is my take.

Two states in the modern era were carved out as religious "homelands". Israel as a "homeland for Jews" and Pakistan as a "homeland for subcontinent Muslims". Israel has a "Right of return" law - any Jew can migrate to Israel - there is automatic citizenship.

This is not the case with Pakistan - up until 1965 Indian Muslims did move to Pakistan and were granted citizenship. What sort of "homeland for subcontinent Muslims" is Pakistan if 65% of subcontinental Muslim live outside it?

If Pakistan well and truly believes it is this promised homeland, it should have a right of return too - so that any Muslim can move their of his/her own free will.

 

[Ras]

I am expecting stones being pelted at me by indian members(irony) but do you ever see a generation of Indians growing up, looking at kashmir and saying 'Naah, not worth the bother' ?

Discuss under what conditions this is possible, if at all.

The more time goes by more control of water sources becomes key...the only way Kashmir will be given up I think is if the rivers completely dry up.

There is a similar situation with Israel and Golan heights.

 

[whocares]

The vision of Akhan bharat stems from main stream indian fairly tales talking about never ending kingdoms of their legendary warriors of gods. Such ambitions have historically taken India on a back and forth swing of unity and balkanization. The last balkanization of India in modern time was pre-colonial princely India. India, sadly once againt is on rail road of legendy kingdom neglecting its own masses of destitute poor. While the Indian states are lobbying for Chinese investment in infrastructure the Indian money is going towards weapon tenders.

yaar kuchh bhi bak bak karte ho. go to university and take some courses on econ before all this poor and arms expenditure bullshit.

 

[Jackdaws]

china occupied kashmir is unpopulated. i kinda agree with you on this actually. more autonomy and withdrawal of security forces from civilian areas is definitely on the cards and something that should kickstart the normalization of cultural and economic relations.

it could backfire for all you know, stoking even more belligerence from interests who want nothing short of redrawing the border.

Actually there are 2 parts of Kashmir China occupies - Aksai Chin and the Trans-Karakoram Tract - one of them is sparsely inhabited by mainly Buddhists - I forget which one.

 

[Usama86]

Pathetic from India. Such a huge country they are but with such a little heart. They can do so much for this whole region, but what the chose is bullying there neighbours. All the countries around India are sick of Indian policies, they want no good for the region but only for themselves at the expense of others. In the subcontinent only Pakistan can raise a voice against India and constantly remind it that they are no super power.

 

[ajtr]

indians will never say FVck it coz indian patience and restrain never wears down.ppl can bet on this.sure winnable bet.

 

[whocares]

what do you think happens today if we demilitarize kashmir today?
do we get instant sabotage of all civilian government infrastructure?

 

[Ras]

As for the OP's question..India will hold on till possible economically.

 

[Jackdaws]

This is not the matter of "mere" anger. The Kashmirs are being collective capitives in a state sponsored seige. Also if Kashmirs love Indian union so much then why soo many Kashmirs haven't been to India?? Or India is too afraid of reality spilling out? Dont blame it on risk of "Pakistani infiltrators". That doesn't make sense.

They don't love the Indian Union - most of them hate it. I never said they love it. Why haven't they been to rest of India - mostly because of a lack of rail link. They are free to move to any other part of India and quite a few of them do. Who spoke of "Pakistani infiltrators"? How many Mary Janes have you had today?