Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[ramu]

Kashmir has to be made independent. It is the best solution - even Pakistan will support that if it's tabled.

Pakistan has shown no such commitment and on the contrary made the independence of Kashmir almost impossible by gifting a large chunk of landmass to China. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

They have been provided several times just that you choose to look past just as you did on all the other points. Alteration has actually not only been on Pakistani side, it has been on Indian side as well with Lakhs of Kashmiri Pundits thrown out of their native place and now dispersed across India.

No evidence has not been provided. The only thing I have seen is opinions that XYZ has occurred, without any actual evidence backing up that opinion.

Yeah but atleast make an official suggestion first. Why not take an initiative to show they actually are willing to walk the talk. India and Indians have never been pro independence, it is the moral high ground taken by Pakistani in debates such as these. During talks reality has been different.

How can Pakistan voice a change in the UNSC resolutions when India wants nothing to do with them?

Joint control, demilitarization and autonomy just under independence are ideas that Pakistan has put forward.

What Happens in there are no clear winners from this??
What about violation of terms of UNSC resolution several times over??

'No clear winners would have to be taken into account' - are we looking for a majority to make a decision, and a runoff between the two highest vote getters in the second round, or multiple rounds of plebiscite until a majority occurs, or the option for independence gets dropped etc. There are options that can be explored.

The violations have occurred from both sides, but moving forward, especially if a different approach has to be taken and new resolutions passed, past violations are irrelevant to dispute resolution so long as both parties commit to the conditions agreed to in the present/future.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan has shown no such commitment and on the contrary made the independence of Kashmir almost impossible by gifting a large chunk of landmass to China. Actions speak louder than words.

That uninhabited and barren chunk of land does nothing to make Kashmiri independence feasible or unfeasible - it wasn't some access to the ocean or the worlds largest gas reserves that were present there.

 

[karan.1970]

The point about the areas being uninhabited is that they would not impact the result of a plebiscite.

But the area's ownership will depend on the result of the hypothetical plebiscite. Also if there are even a small number of people there, shouldnt they also vote in that plebiscite? Is that a practicality today?

 

[karan.1970]

GB have not been integrated into Pakistan because they are considered part of disputed territory under the UNSC resolutions. The area adjusted with China was uninhabited and largely barren at the time, and its future status is also subject to negotiations between China and the nation that the Kashmiris choose to join once a plebiscite occurs.

If that was a gift from Pakistan to China, isnt Pakistan liable to ensure the status quo at the time of 1947 Aug is restored before any talk of the so called choice.? Also what if Kashmiris do not want to join either of India or Pakistan?

 

[Skeptic]

No evidence has not been provided. The only thing I have seen is opinions that XYZ has occurred, without any actual evidence backing up that opinion.

Are you seriously asking for proof of Kashmiri Pundits being thrown out of Valley.

How can Pakistan voice a change in the UNSC resolutions when India wants nothing to do with them?

How do you know India wants to do nothing with them unless you voice the changes? How do we believe that GoP is actually serious about Independence option when it is afraid to even voice it in any significant platform.

Joint control, demilitarization and autonomy just under independence are ideas that Pakistan has put forward.

Yeah and India agreed on very many, but your domestic power struggle let everything offtrack.

'No clear winners would have to be taken into account' - are we looking for a majority to make a decision, and a runoff between the two highest vote getters in the second round, or multiple rounds of plebiscite until a majority occurs, or the option for independence gets dropped etc. There are options that can be explored.

Yeah since it is such a grave matter, decesion should be supported by a significant majority. Even to make a change in constitution we generally require 2/3rd majority (75%). What do you propose since this is a Pakistani idea.

The violations have occurred from both sides, but moving forward, especially if a different approach has to be taken and new resolutions passed, past violations are irrelevant to dispute resolution so long as both parties commit to the conditions agreed to in the present/future.

Condition are impossible to be met.
So we agree that UNSC are redundant and we need to look at the matter completely afresh.

Thanks!!

 

[mehru]

Well said.

So in order to ensure peace you can go to any extent. You will even give your home to ensure peace??????

This is not the solution. If we today agree to give Kashmir to india (to ensure peace ) tomorrow she will demand Gilgit-Baldistan (and so on). There is no way to satisfy indian hunger.

You misunderstood me. I am asking for compromise on both sides. We are not going to lose any area and neither will India. As for Kashmir, a bigger part of it is already under Indian control so how the hell we are gifting them anything? By accepting LOC, India will be in no position to claim our areas of Kashmir and Gilgit-Biltistan. In this way we will not pay a heavy price for peace and neither will India.
PS. I am not in favour of Independent Kashmir. First, it's not possible and secondly no Pakistani will want to lose the small part of Kashmir + Gilgit Biltistan that we have.

 

[ramu]

That uninhabited and barren chunk of land does nothing to make Kashmiri independence feasible or unfeasible - it wasn't some access to the ocean or the worlds largest gas reserves that were present there.

Is Pakistan to decide the destiny of the "barren land"? This is such a colonialist approach to a territory that has nothing to do with China. This very approach costed Pakistan its east. Lessons are lost but that lesson is something you can afford to forget. All the fart about Kashmiris deciding their destination goes for a toss if Kashmir is viewed in terms of real estate value. India does not have to protect Siachen is it thinks it is uninhabitable land. Indians take pride in Kashmir being a part of India. India will fight for every inch of Kashmir, irrespective of the artificial classification

 

[ejaz007]

Canada denies visa to ex-Indian army officer for IHK abuses

NEW DELHI: Just days after Canada refused visa to a retired Indian trooper of Border Security Force (BSF) on charges of involvement in human rights violations in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK), one more incident of a denial of visa to a retired Lieutenant General of the Indian army by the Canadian Home Office on the same grounds has come to light.

A retired Lieutenant General of the Indian army, AS Bahia, who served as a member of the Defence Appellate Tribunal, told the media that the Canadian Home Office refused to grant him a visa because he had served in the sensitive location of IHK and his unit, the Rashtriya Rifles (RR), was involved in human rights violations in IHK.

The issue first came to light when the Canadian High Commission denied visa last week to a retired Border Security Force (BSF) trooper Fateh Singh Pandher on grounds that he was associated with a notoriously violent force that indulged in human rights violations in IHK. Canada has denied visas to a member of the Indian Armed Forces Tribunal, three serving Brigadiers, a retired Lieutenant General and a former senior IB official on the grounds that their organisations have been engaging in violence. In another revelation, two Brigadiers were denied visas in 2008 and another in 2009. A retired Lieutenant General RN Bhatia was also refused visa in 2008.

Separately, India said on Thursday it had summoned Canada’s high commissioner and lodged a strong protest after several officials linked with its security establishment were denied Canadian visas.

The visa rejections, on grounds of human rights records, came to light just weeks before Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is to travel to Toronto for a G20 meeting. Indian Foreign Minister SM Krishna expressed hope that Ottawa would solve the issue appropriately. iftikhar gilani/agencies

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[billi]

Yawn. This is a Kashmiri thread not a Bangladeshi one, lets not forget the Partition Massacres, but that would dereail thread. Stick to the topic.

yeah, muslims killed sikhs and hindus

 

[ejaz007]

yeah, muslims killed sikhs and hindus

He just landed from mars so is not aware of the facts. Give him some time to live on earth and he shall find out the facts.

 

[IndianArmy]

What kind of a Thread is this??Indian army atrocities and massacres???

 

[ejaz007]

What kind of a Thread is this??Indian army atrocities and massacres???

This is a thread where attrocities committed by Indian army and security forces in IHK are posted. These could be in the form of news reports, reports prepared by human rights groups and personal experiences.

 

[IndianArmy]

This is a thread where attrocities committed by Indian army and security forces in IHK are posted. These could be in the form of news reports, reports prepared by human rights groups and personal experiences.

Oh Please carry on this Noble work....

 

[Jade]

Kashmir has to be made independent. It is the best solution - even Pakistan will support that if it's tabled.

I really wonder how some Pakistani Forum members are for Independence

First, there is no provision for Independence in UN resolution neither do India or Pakistan has any official say on Independence of Kashmir, moreover under no circumstances is the UN resolution going to be renegotiated to include the provision for Independence, neither will India ever...ever go to UN on Kashmir

Second, I feel more than Kashmir, the water issue is of prime importance to Pakistan. If Kashmir were to become Independent, I am sure Kashmir would use all the waters that are flowing in Kashmir for its economic development leaving almost nothing to Pakistan.

Third, there is always a question of sustainability of landlocked independent Kashmir as a nation. It will be burden on all the neighboring countries

Fourth, I am certain just like Afghanistan an independent Kashmir is going be a playground for India, Pakistan, China and US for power projection. This is nothing but more bloodshed for Kashmiris and no reprieve

Fifth, there are certain pre conditions attached for plebiscite. One of the main precondition is return to Kashmir of 1947, however with three nations: India, Pakistan and China administering their respective parts of Kashmir, the situation is simply complex

Lastly, with acute polarization of people based on the regions there is every chance that independent Kashmir will either go Czechoslovakia way or have more civil unrest and more blood bath.