Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Jade]

The survey clearly shows rather than the conflict, which only 36% of the residents choose as the major problem, the other issues such as unemployment (87%), corruption (68 %), poor economic development ( 45%) and human right abuses (43%) have been quoted as major problems faced by the people. This is no different from the issues faced by the people of other parts of the country

 

[Jade]

Why India don't pullout its troops from kashmir ?? After all it was india that took kashmir to UN not pakistan... and India accepted the UN resolutions .....

Where is the Kashmir of 1947? Kashmir of 2010 is administered by the three countries: India, Pakistan, and China. There certain precondition that have to be fulfilled for UN resolutions

 

[mehru]

Both countries are not in favour of independent Kashmir. Both don't want to lose land area. Solution in my opinion is neither plebiscite nor independence from both countries. The only solution is to accept LOC as international boundary. That's the only way to bring peace in region.

 

[prodevelopment]

yeah it will, if it happens in the both sides and at the same time

But, according to you India doesn't want to conduct the plebiscite, while Pakistan does!!!!!!

Then what, if I may, is stopping Pakistan from conducting a plebiscite in P O K (saying the results will be implemented once India conducts one as well). This will light a fire under both India's as well as UN's ***** on the issue.

My opinion is that Pakistan is just playing with the Kashmiri emotions. They just want to vilify India while secretly following the exact same strategy as India on the plebiscite.

 

[sparklingway]

If survey does not show what thou expects about the thinking of people of a place thou cannot claim to have a knowledge about, then thou shall claim it as baseless propaganda without studying method of survey, statistical error probability calculations and reach judgments that were reached for thou by elders and society.

 

[Jade]

Although the figures given here specially about AJK i personally don't agree but Few points that you did not wanted to highlight but i will....




A survey which a British academic says is the first systematic attempt to establish the opinions of Kashmiris has produced "striking results".

Robert Bradnock interviewed more than 3,700 people in Indian- and Pakistani-administered Kashmir to assess their views on various issues.

One of the key questions put to respondents was how they saw the future of the territory.

Nearly half of those interviewed said they wanted independence.
(Again shows they don't want to be with India)
Another question asked for their views over the continuing insurgency.

Dr Bradnock - an associate fellow at the Chatham House think-tank in London - says that the survey has produced startling conclusions, especially in relation to the future of the territory.
No 'simple fixes'

It revealed that on average 44% of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favoured independence, compared with 43% in Indian-administered Kashmir. (No matter what but one thing is for sure that majority don't want to be with India)
"However while this is the most popular option overall, it fails to carry an overall majority on either side.

"In fact on the Indian side of the Line of Control [LoC] - which separates the two regions - opinions are heavily polarised," Dr Bradnock told the BBC.
Journalists take cover during a clash in Srinagar (file photo) The Kashmir insurgency has raged for 20 years

The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people want a solution to the dispute, even though there are no "simple fixes".

Dr Bradnock said that in the Kashmir valley - the mainly Muslim area at the centre of the insurgency - support for independence is between 74% and 95%.

But in the predominantly Hindu Jammu division to the south, support is under 1%.

Other findings include:

* 80% of Kashmiris on both sides of the LoC say that the dispute is important to them personally

* Concern over human rights abuses stands at 43% on the Indian side and 19% on the Pakistani side

* Concern over unemployment is strong across the territory - 66% on the Pakistani side and 87% on the Indian side
* Few are optimistic over peace talks - only 27% on the Pakistani side and 57% on the Indian side thought they would succeed.

Dr Bradnock said that it was "clear" that a plebiscite on the future of Kashmir - along the lines envisaged in UN resolutions of 1948-49 - is "extremely unlikely to offer a solution today".

"The results of the polls show that that there is no single proposition for the future of Kashmir which could be put to the population... and get majority support," he said.

"The poll offers no simple fixes but offers signposts - through which the political process, engaging India, Pakistan and wider Kashmiri representation - could move it towards resolution."


BBC News - 'First' Kashmir survey produces 'startling' results

It depends on how you interpret results. Using the same figures, I can interpret differently

 

[prodevelopment]

If survey does not show what thou expects about the thinking of people of a place thou cannot claim to have a knowledge about, then thou shall claim it as baseless propaganda without studying method of survey, statistical error probability calculations and reach judgments that were reached for thou by elders and society.

 

[sparklingway]

I have met Kashmiris and although I would not entirely agree with the survey as far as I saw it but the voice for independence is pretty great.

Perhaps, Pakistanis are mostly surprised at the high percentage of demand for indepdence in AJK. Well 44% is way too, but I'd say it isn't entirely false. AJK already enjoys a lot of autonomy and they exert pressure on the Federal Government whenever they want, demand subsidized electricity (Mangla hamara hai) and pay way too little taxes compared to the rest of Pakistan.

We're indoctrinated that Kashmir is ours, rightfully ours and "Kashmir ban ke rahay ga Pakistan". Hence nobody even knows that a UN administered plebiscite if held (ever), then it will have to be held in AJK and GB as well, for India has claim over them (more over AJK and less over GB) as much as we have a claim over occupied Kashmir. Hence, it's not surprising that they too view Independence an option. Also keep in mind that GB was running effectively thanks to extensive works by the Agha Khan Foundation. Had it not been for them, rebellious voices would have risen in GB as well.

As for the occupied Kashmir, I met a whole bunch of Uni of Srinagar MBA students on a trip to Delhi and we used to spend time with the whole bunch at night after the whole tourist things. One of them was a diehard freedom fighter having lost a brother in the movement but all of the rest were all for Independence or had no opinion about the whole issue. Nobody among them 30 or so I might wanted to be with Pakistan, 1 wanted to be with India and the rest 28 wanted to go Independent.

But as far as I see it, Independence for them is unrealizable.

 

[Jade]

I have met Kashmiris and although I would not entirely agree with the survey as far as I saw it but the voice for independence is pretty great.

Perhaps, Pakistanis are mostly surprised at the high percentage of demand for indepdence in AJK. Well 44% is way too, but I'd say it isn't entirely false. AJK already enjoys a lot of autonomy and they exert pressure on the Federal Government whenever they want, demand subsidized electricity (Mangla hamara hai) and pay way too little taxes compared to the rest of Pakistan.

We're indoctrinated that Kashmir is ours, rightfully ours and "Kashmir ban ke rahay ga Pakistan". Hence nobody even knows that a UN administered plebiscite if held (ever), then it will have to be held in AJK and GB as well, for India has claim over them (more over AJK and less over GB) as much as we have a claim over occupied Kashmir. Hence, it's not surprising that they too view Independence an option. Also keep in mind that GB was running effectively thanks to extensive works by the Agha Khan Foundation. Had it not been for them, rebellious voices would have risen in GB as well.

As for the occupied Kashmir, I met a whole bunch of Uni of Srinagar MBA students on a trip to Delhi and we used to spend time with the whole bunch at night after the whole tourist things. One of them was a diehard freedom fighter having lost a brother in the movement but all of the rest were all for Independence or had no opinion about the whole issue. Nobody among them 30 or so I might wanted to be with Pakistan, 1 wanted to be with India and the rest 28 wanted to go Independent.

But as far as I see it, Independence for them is unrealizable.

sparklingway,

What you said could be true; however, the group is pretty homogeneous(Students/from one institution/Srinagar). If I were you, I would not conclude unequivocally that all Kashmiris are for independence

 

[RobbieS]

I have met Kashmiris and although I would not entirely agree with the survey as far as I saw it but the voice for independence is pretty great.

Perhaps, Pakistanis are mostly surprised at the high percentage of demand for indepdence in AJK. Well 44% is way too, but I'd say it isn't entirely false. AJK already enjoys a lot of autonomy and they exert pressure on the Federal Government whenever they want, demand subsidized electricity (Mangla hamara hai) and pay way too little taxes compared to the rest of Pakistan.

We're indoctrinated that Kashmir is ours, rightfully ours and "Kashmir ban ke rahay ga Pakistan". Hence nobody even knows that a UN administered plebiscite if held (ever), then it will have to be held in AJK and GB as well, for India has claim over them (more over AJK and less over GB) as much as we have a claim over occupied Kashmir. Hence, it's not surprising that they too view Independence an option. Also keep in mind that GB was running effectively thanks to extensive works by the Agha Khan Foundation. Had it not been for them, rebellious voices would have risen in GB as well.

As for the occupied Kashmir, I met a whole bunch of Uni of Srinagar MBA students on a trip to Delhi and we used to spend time with the whole bunch at night after the whole tourist things. One of them was a diehard freedom fighter having lost a brother in the movement but all of the rest were all for Independence or had no opinion about the whole issue. Nobody among them 30 or so I might wanted to be with Pakistan, 1 wanted to be with India and the rest 28 wanted to go Independent.

But as far as I see it, Independence for them is unrealizable.

You could be right about those students from Kashmir. My experiences with my Kashmiri classmates in my B-school in Delhi were similar. They were overwhelmingly pro-independence. Though it did take considerable time for them to open up with their views and that too not with everybody as they were fearful of sending out the wrong signals.

 

[sparklingway]

Perhaps, people of Jammu and other non-Muslim dominated areas might not be so pro-Independent, but as the survey says Muslims in the area show nearly unanimous support for Independence.

Answer this question:-

Will the people of India accept an Independent Kashmir? Will the GoI accept an Independent Kashmir? I'm not questioning Pakistani and GoP view, I'm asking opinion from your side and let's say that Kashmir decides Independence and chooses to have good extensive relations with both India and Pakistan and decides not have any armed forces of its own. Will there ever be the decision or intention to capture Kashmir again from GoI? As I said earlier, your side only, do not bring GoP or Pakistanis in your reply.

 

[Jazzbot]

If that's your only concern, the solution is simple.

Ask UN forces to come to P O K and withdraw Pakistani forces from there. Then conduct the plebiscite.

Would that not serve the purpose?

and what about vise verse..?
i bet now you ppl will rush to kill me lool.

 

[prodevelopment]

Independent Kashmir is a landmine that no politician would want to step on, at least right now. If the opinion of the people of India changes, then GoI can change it's stand on the issue.

Which brings me to the Indian public. Most of us don't know much about the Kashmir issue, UN resolutions and all. What we do know is fed to us by the media, which deals mostly in sensationalist stories. Even if the general opinion of Indians changes on Kashmiri independence, I see the hardliners on this issue in India dominate the airwaves, and hence, the policy on this issue.

 

[Jade]

Perhaps, people of Jammu and other non-Muslim dominated areas might not be so pro-Independent, but as the survey says Muslims in the area show nearly unanimous support for Independence.

Answer this question:-

Will the people of India accept an Independent Kashmir? Will the GoI accept an Independent Kashmir? I'm not questioning Pakistani and GoP view, I'm asking opinion from your side and let's say that Kashmir decides Independence and chooses to have good extensive relations with both India and Pakistan and decides not have any armed forces of its own. Will there ever be the decision or intention to capture Kashmir again from GoI? As I said earlier, your side only, do not bring GoP or Pakistanis in your reply.

The official position of India is clear: All of Kashmir belongs to India; and moreover there is no provision for Independent Kashmir in UN resolution.

As per the general Indian population is concerned, I don’t have much idea, however, I feel majority of them would like the LOC be converted to international border, with greater autonomy to J&K, and free movement of people and trade across both sides

 

[Skeptic]

Answer this question:-

Will the people of India accept an Independent Kashmir? Will the GoI accept an Independent Kashmir? I'm not questioning Pakistani and GoP view, I'm asking opinion from your side and let's say that Kashmir decides Independence and chooses to have good extensive relations with both India and Pakistan and decides not have any armed forces of its own. Will there ever be the decision or intention to capture Kashmir again from GoI? As I said earlier, your side only, do not bring GoP or Pakistanis in your reply.

How are the Kashmiris going to decide for independence? Who will give them this option - Which is not even present in the now redundent UN resolutions.

Still, The answer if you do not know till now - Is a blunt NO.
We do not think Independent Kashmir is an option. Autonomy with a porus border can be an option, but outright independence has never ever been an option from Indian perspective.