Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[prithwidw]

Whatever the reason being, the banner of armed jihad isn't a concern with Kashmir. Both APHC (who India is desperately courting these days) and JKLF (whom India desperately used to court before) have always included a Kashmir for all Kashmiris, including Hindus and the deposed Pundits.

As long as India occupies Kashmir, every sort of attack on Indian forces occupying Kashmir is justified. If you can't throw grenades at them, throw stones, if you can't throw stones, slap em.

Of course, I'd be smarter than the mullah and say whatever you do, be smart about it. Make sure you get a hit and the only casualty should be on the Indian side. Make sure, you win and they lose. Thats it, other than that, the fight is just and if you want to be free, the fight is a must.

Believe me, nothing would ever come out of all these. All this is going down the drain, some terrorists killed, some innocents killed.

 

[Hyde]

Maulana Mufti saab needs Halwa

I remember another Maulvi saab taking bribe (from the member of Star News i think) and issuing fatwa that using Mobile phones are haraam Later on that video was released on Star News couple of years ago showing the evidence.

Maulvi Saab does not know that pelting the stones to Shaitan is one of the compulsary ritual of Hajj. Your Hajj is not completed without pelting stones on Shaitaan. Maulvi saab has not clarified what will happen if the oppressor is beating peoples and can we not pelt stones in our defense? this fatwa is flawed and Maulvi saab needs to give more halwa to take his words back. He has issued a fatwa but not given details in what form is he declaring un-Islamic (or the newspaper has hidden the half truth)

 

[EjazR]

Suicide is absolutely haram (forbidden) in Islam and will be thrown into eternal hell yet if a muslim killed himself to defend the motherland from anti-islamic annihilated force then, the same death will be consider as shahadat(morderdum) and the reward would be admission to supreme heaven(Jannat-ul- Firdous).

In principle mufti is right because Islam discurage violent activity however if suicide is haram one case yet made halal in another case than stoning anti-islamic opprssor in the form of protest to defend their islamic values can not be haram as there is no peaceful way to settle this unsettle issue. rule changes with situation.

Sorry brother, but that is completely wrong, it is by consensus that suicide bombings are considered haram even by the strict salafi aka wahabbi ulemas in Saudi Arabia.

It is only the takfiri ideologues who adhere to OBL ideology and ABdullah Azzam who try to justify suicide bombings and killing of civilians.

I quote here one of the renowned seikh in Saudi Arabia and the reason I am quoting a salafil sheikh here. You will find similar rulings among other ulema in the sub-conitnet and elsewhere.

Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al-'Uthaymeen was asked the following concerning attacking an enemy by blowing oneself up, "What is the ruling regarding acts of jihad by means of suicide, such as attaching explosives to a car and storming the enemy, whereby he knows without a doubt that he shall die as a result of this action?"

Shaykh al-'Uthaymeen responded by saying, "Indeed, my opinion is that he is regarded as one who has committed suicide, and as a result he shall be punished in Hell, for that which is authenticated on the authority of the Prophet (may Allah raise his rank and grant him peace), "Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever."

However, one who is ignorant and does not know, and assumes his action was good and pleasing to Allah, then we hope Allah forgives him for what he did due to an erroneous judgement, even though I do not find any excuse for him in the present day. This is because this type of suicide is well known and widespread amongst the people, so it is upon the person to ask the people of knowledge (the religious scholars) regarding it, until right guidance is made distinct from error for him.

And from that which is surprising, is that these people kill themselves despite Allah having forbidden this, as He said in the Quran:

"And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you."

And many from amongst them do not desire anything except revenge upon the enemy, by whatever means, be it halal (permissible) or haram (forbidden). So they only want to satisfy their thirst for revenge.

We ask Allah to bless us with foresight in His religion and action(s) which please Him. Indeed, He is all-Powerful over all things."

Elsewhere, Shaykh al-'Uthaymeen commented specifically about the suicide bombings which take place in Palestine: "This is what is found from the practice of the Jews with the people of Palestine - so when one of the Palestinians blows himself up and kills six or seven people, then in retaliation, they take sixty or more. So this does not produce any benefit for the Muslims, and does not benefit those amongst whose ranks explosives are detonated.

So what we hold is that those people who perform these suicide (bombings) have wrongfully committed suicide, and that this necessitates entry into the Hellfire, and Allah's refuge is sought; and that this person is not a shahid (martyr). However, if a person has done this upon misrepresentation, thinking that it is permissible, then we hope that he will be saved from sin. But as for martyrdom being written for him, then no, since he has not taken the path of martyrdom."

AbdurRahman.org [Do Wahhabis Support Suicide Bombings? ]

 

[EjazR]

كُتِبَ عَلَيكُمُ القِتالُ وَهُوَ كُرهٌ لَكُم ۖ وَعَسىٰ أَن تَكرَهوا شَيـًٔا وَهُوَ خَيرٌ لَكُم
Qitaal is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you. (Quran)

So Mr. EjazR, if you even have a little knowledge of Islamic jurisprudence, then you will be aware of the fact that, Quran (and Hadis) has supreme authority of declaring a rule as law. I wonder if this mufti of yours remembered this ayat while he was passing this fatwa.

And btw, have you ever been involved in pointing towards a act which is even remotely constructive? Bringing up such (almost all of your threads/posts) material on a defense forum, tells me about the concern you show in pointing towards a negativity in 1 person out of 2 billion Muslims OR 1 person out of 1.8 million Pakistanis.

And do you know the context for this verse? It is in a situation where you are not allowed to practice and preach your religion. Where the faith of Islam itself was being targeted by the oppressors in Mecca.

The Hadith Quoted by the mufti is also a sahih hadith, I think you haven't read the entire thread so here it is.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmi...n-islamic-grand-mufti-kashmir.html#post719606


However, lets get on thing straight there is no problem in practicing your faith or preach Islam in Jammu and Kashmir or the entire length and breadth of India. It is one of the few countries in the world where a muslim personal laws for inheritance, marriage and divorce are still upheld separately in the light of Qurna and Sunnah. So this does not apply. Infact the majority of the J&K police is muslim. There is an entire infantry battalion that consists of locals J&K Light Infantry Battalion. And an increasing number of paramilitary personnel are also being recruited locally. The entire administration and government consists of elected officials at the state and national levels. Very soon they will have representatives at Local Government levels as well.

And I believe that I AM indulging in something constructive. By helping Pakistanis see the true picture of J&K which they don't realise. Some groups have maligned the word Jihad so much by using it for wrong and political purposes that the importance of this concept is not known to even muslims now. They look at it as some taboo concept when in fact it was a noble concept to strive for righteousness and justice and where innocents are not killed or targeted. And that is what I am doing, reclaiming this from the so-called "Jihadi" groups who have no idea about it and have tarnished thsi noble concept.

and @Zaki also
And as I keep mentioning, even Geelani - a pro Pakistani separatist has admitted that stone pelting should not continue in light of this hadith. So is Geelani now an Indian puppet?

 

[ice_man]

look i seriously think if the mufti said that don't throw stones FINE! accept it that doesn't change the HATE the kashmiris have towards indians!! does it?

pelting or no pelting indai is oppressing the kashmiris!!

 

[Al-zakir]

It is only the takfiri ideologues who adhere to OBL ideology and ABdullah Azzam who try to justify suicide bombings and killing of civilians.

I have not said anything about killing civilians. What if your homeland is under attack by annihilated force and you have no other effective way to destroy enemy except become a human time bomb. What that be allowed in the form of jihad?

 

[manish123]

Whats nice in it?

The army should stop using police against terrorists. It only wastes precious human lives.

Fight against terrorism is responsibility of army and they should not ask police to fight it. They are not trained for it.

Police should rather focus on improving law and order situations and improving security of people from terrorists.

Also, army should focus on hitting on terror camps in P0K rather than sitting here like ducks and waiting for orders from daddy in USA.

Since when did army's responsibilities include fighting terrorism.They came only when police and para military foces were not able to handle the situation.Little by little army is handing control back to paramilitary and police and I see nothing wrong in that and its good to talk about hitting terrorist camps but a couple of tomahawks would put a cold stop to indian ambitions.better we first have the capability and then think of hitting outside our borders.

 

[TheHawk]

Azerbaijan is on your side Pakistani brothers.

 

[IBRIS]

Azerbaijan is on your side Pakistani brothers.

not really, you are reserved to Russians.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

not really, you are reserved to Russians.

TheHawk was giving us moral support

 

[EjazR]

^^^
I have posted the opinion of a well known religious scholar on this. Moreover, it mostly civilians who do get killed in suicide bombings.

And as the sheikh said, are you really "destroying" the enemy? And how could you do it by doing something haram(suicide) in any case. And many ulema concur with this viewpoint.

P.S.: I have to add a correction to my quote in my post. It was OBL who justified civilians killings for the first time. Abdulla Azzam only justified suicide bombings.

 

[abrahams]

hrw.org/en/news/2006/09/20/pakistan-free-kashmir-far-free

Pakistan: ‘Free Kashmir’ Far From Free
Government Opponents Face Torture, Censorship and Political Repression

SEPTEMBER 21, 2006
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“With Friends Like These…”
"Everyone Lives in Fear"
Although ‘azad’ means ‘free,’ the residents of Azad Kashmir are anything but.

Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch
(Islamabad) - In Azad Kashmir, a region largely closed to international scrutiny until a devastating earthquake hit last year, the Pakistani government represses democratic freedoms, muzzles the press and practices routine torture, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.

Based on research in Azad Kashmir (which means “free Kashmir&#8221 and Pakistan, the 71-page report, “‘With Friends Like These …’: Human Rights Violations in Azad Kashmir,” uncovers abuses by the Pakistani military, intelligence services and militant organizations.

“Although ‘azad’ means ‘free,’ the residents of Azad Kashmir are anything but,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms.”

Before a massive earthquake struck in October, Azad Kashmir was one of the most closed territories in the world. Tight controls on freedom of expression have been a hallmark of government policy in Azad Kashmir. Pakistan has prevented the creation of independent media in the territory through bureaucratic restrictions and coercion. Publications and literature favoring independence is banned. While militant organizations promoting the incorporation of Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir state into Pakistan have had free rein to propagate their views, groups promoting an independent Kashmir find their speech sharply, sometimes violently curtailed.

Under Azad Kashmir’s constitution, which Pakistan imposed in 1974, election candidates are prescreened to ensure that only those who support Kashmir’s union with Pakistan can contest elections. Anyone who wants to take part in public life in Azad Kashmir has to sign a pledge of loyalty to Pakistan, while anyone who publicly supports or peacefully works for an independent Kashmir faces persecution.

“There is a façade of an elected local government, but the federal government in Islamabad, the army and the intelligence agencies control all aspects of political life in Azad Kashmir,” said Adams. “The military shows no tolerance for dissent and practically runs the region as a fiefdom.”

Torture is routinely used in Pakistan, and this practice is also routine in Azad Kashmir. Human Rights Watch has documented incidents of torture by the intelligence services and others acting at the army’s behest but knows of no cases in which members of military and paramilitary security and intelligence agencies have been prosecuted or even disciplined for acts of torture or mistreatment.

Despite the Pakistani government’s criticism of human rights violations in neighbouring Jammu and Kashmir state in India, refugees from Jammu and Kashmir are discriminated against and mistreated by the authorities. Kashmiri refugees and former militants from India, most of whom are secular nationalists and culturally and linguistically distinct from the peoples of Azad Kashmir, are particularly harassed through constant surveillance, curbs on political expression, arbitrary arrest and beatings.

“The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India,” said Adams. “It should start looking into ways of ending human rights abuses in Azad Kashmir.”

Human Rights Watch urged international donors, which have poured billions of dollars of urgently needed relief and reconstruction aid into Azad Kashmir since the earthquake, to insist on structural changes in governance and the promotion of both human rights and the rule of law. Recent corruption allegations against senior government officials highlight serious weaknesses in the rule of law and governmental accountability.

“As it supports reconstruction efforts, the international community must insist that Pakistan respect the human rights of the people of Azad Kashmir,” said Adams. “The Pakistani government must ensure that the people of Azad Kashmir can exercise their fundamental civil and political rights in an environment free of coercion and fear.”

Testimonies from the report:

“About six or seven soldiers led by a major ran the proceedings, which lasted for about five days. The soldiers kept changing and ‘worked’ us in shifts. They started by making us do push-ups and sit-ups for hours, then beat us with rods and belts when we collapsed in exhaustion. They kept saying that we must admit that we had become ‘double agents,’ that we had crossed over to the Indian side because we were ‘Hindu lovers,’ that we were ‘shameless bastards who wanted to be raped by the rapists of our sisters and mothers.’ Initially, I and the others argued, told them they were wrong and what they were doing was wrong. But when you are beaten and bloodied, barely conscious, nothing really matters beyond a point. They decided to make a particular example of Sameer [name changed] who was the most vocal of us. In front of us, he was stripped naked and chillies were shoved up his rectum. He screamed and screamed and the more he screamed the more they beat him with batons and belts, kicked him, punched him. They would beat him unconscious, bring him back and then beat him unconscious again. He did not die in front of us. But it has been eight years and we never saw him again after those five days together so I think he is dead. He has to be. After what they did to him, it would be better for him too.”
– Interview with “Shahid,” a former militant, Azad Kashmir

“On April 7, we went on a hunger strike …Why have we been locked up for hailing and supporting the bus [service between Srinagar and Muzaffarabad]? On April 10, at about 6 a.m., we were given breakfast. We refused. The jail authorities started beating us with sticks and metal rods. About 14 or 15 people were beating each person. All other criminal prisoners and the police present were included. The jail superintendent, Raja Aftab, was standing at the sentry post directing the prisoners to beat us. We were beaten badly. (It was pre-arranged between the other prisoners and the police.) One person had an eye torn out. One had several head injuries. Another had his hand broken. Everyone was bruised. We were beaten for about two-and-a-half hours. This happened in all three cells between 6 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. Then the jailer came and said, ‘If you don’t eat, we will shove the food up your ***.’ We agreed to eat under duress, as those who refused to eat were beaten very severely. Mohammad Ayub Butt refused to eat, so they cracked his spine. Why did the Azad Kashmir government arrest us and beat us up? We were only supporting the stated policy of the Pakistani government. Is that not allowed? Or does Musharraf sitting in Islamabad not know what goes on in Muzaffarabad?”
– Jamil Mirza, a refugee from Jammu and Kashmir state, Muzaffarabad, August 3, 2005


so much for the free kashmir...

 

[ARCHON]

nope! the world is not neutral by any means! when clearly AZAAD KASHMIR has its own government,legislature & even its own flag!

as for "neutral" world they call it the indian sub-continent and the indian ocean completely disregarding the pakistanis,sri-lankans & bangladeshis! so please don't tell me the world is neutral

as for pakistan jumping the gun well you said pakistan invaded an independant nation! what about india invading Junagadh, hyderabad or EAST PAKISTAN??

and we made tribals enter kashmir AFTER india invaded junagadh! and convinently it held a plebiscite within weeks! however, it still has to honour its word on kashmir!

the problem is your history books teach you stuff which maes india look like the victim! which it by no means is!

Azad Kashmir today
By Ahmad Faruqui

Azad Kashmir was created within two months of Pakistan’s independence with high expectations. Nestled in the mountainous western region that abuts the vale of Kashmir, it forms an archer’s bow that is about 100 miles long and about 20-40 miles wide.

The Pakistani security elite hoped that an arrow fired from the bow would bring about the instant liberation of the vale of Kashmir from Indian occupation. The first arrow was fired almost within days of creation.

It plunged the entire region of Kashmir into armed conflict. Fourteen months later, a ceasefire sponsored by the United Nations took effect on Jan 1, 1949. The ceasefire line remained stationary despite several attempts to move it. But after the 1971 war which saw the secession of East Pakistan, it was renamed the Line-of-Control (LoC). That militaristic designation persists to this day since the line which separates the two Kashmirs has not been formalised as an international border.

‘Azad’ means free and Azad Kashmir was supposed to serve as a model state whose liberty and freedom would inspire rebellion in Indian-administered Kashmir. That did not happen for several reasons. Constitutionally, Azad Kashmir is not a part of Pakistan. But neither is it an independent state. For its entire 62-year history, it has depended on Pakistan for its economic and political survival. It does not even issue its own postage stamps.

Because Islamabad has always exercised its claim on the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir, Azad Kashmir is not counted as a fifth province of Pakistan. But for all practical purposes, Muzaffarabad lives under Islamabad’s shadow. Its first government was established on Oct 24, 1947 with Sardar Mohammed Ibrahim as president. On Nov 3, 1947, Azad Kashmir sought unsuccessfully to join the United Nations as a member state.

In March 1949, after the dust had settled along the ceasefire line, Azad Kashmir signed a power-sharing arrangement with the Government of Pakistan ceding all authority related to defence, foreign affairs, refugees and the plebiscite to Pakistan.

Pakistan created a Ministry for Kashmir Affairs to look after its newest asset. However, as events would show, the ministry was soon preoccupied with influencing political direction in Azad Kashmir. Not surprisingly, the ministry’s directives were not always well received by Azad Kashmiris. At times, they were met with stiff resistance.

In 1955, Pakistan declared martial law in some parts of Azad Kashmir to suppress street violence triggered by the Kashmir Act. In 1957, Pakistan resorted to police action to quell a public meeting that was seeking direct action to create a united and liberated Kashmir. In 1961, President Ayub Khan carried out indirect elections in Azad Kashmir through a Basic Democracies Ordinance which legally only applied to Pakistan, further straining ties with the Azad Kashmiris.

Subsequently, faced with Islamabad’s dominance in their day-to-day affairs, several Azad Kashmiri leaders started a movement for liberating Indian-held Kashmir not for Pakistan but for creating a separate Kashmiri state. This further aggravated ties with Pakistan. While all this was happening, Jammu and Kashmir was inducted into the Indian union.

In 1965, the Pakistani army launched a covert war inside Indian Kashmir seeking to instigate a popular rebellion. This arrow too missed its target. Instead, it enraged India which launched a strong counter-offensive along the international border with West Pakistan.

Under the weight of the Indian elephant, the Pakistani military hastily called of its operations in Kashmir. The war ended in an UN-brokered ceasefire along the international border with minimal changes in the Kashmiri line. After the war, Pakistan lost its urge to light a fire across the Line of Control (LoC). Matters changed in 1979 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan and the Pakistani military, with US and Saudi assistance, began training legions of Mujahideen to evict the godless communists.

After a bruised and battered Red Army pulled out of Kabul in 1989, Indian Jammu and Kashmir found itself in the grip of a large-scale revolt. Whether this was a purely indigenous movement or a corollary to events in Kabul continues to enrich scholarly volumes.

Regardless of the cause, the uprising in the vale provided the Kashmir hawks in Pakistan’s security elite yet another opportunity to press on with their objective. They reactivated their bases in Azad Kashmir and once again decided to fire arrows into Indian Jammu and Kashmir. Soon, ‘freedom fighters,’ armed and trained allegedly by the Pakistan Army, were rolling across in droves across the LoC.

Azad Kashmir was again in the cross-hairs of armed conflict. Against this backdrop, Pakistan under Gen Ziaul Haq decided to legally separate the geographically much larger Northern Areas of Gilgit and Baltistan from Azad Kashmir. This caused almost as much consternation in the latter as it did in India. The separation of the Northern Areas by Pakistan eliminated all doubts about the sovereignty of Azad Kashmir. With the reactivation of conflict across the Line-of-Control, the quality of life of the Azad Kashmiris was trammelled. Those who did not want to take part in the proxy war became pariahs.

Most of the cross-border infiltration was halted in the wake of 9/11 and the US invasion of Afghanistan. The attack on the Indian parliament in December 2001 was designed to reinvigorate the Kashmir issue but all it did was bring India and Pakistan to the brink of full-scale war in 2002. For a while the Musharraf regime sought to differentiate the struggle for freedom in Kashmir from political acts of terror but its spin failed to gain traction with the world community. Cross-border terrorism was quiet for several years.

The attacks on Mumbai by a group linked to militant activities in Kashmir in November 2008 were an attempt to reignite the conflict but succeeded only in drawing widespread opprobrium. During the past 62 years, the people of Azad Kashmir have been unable to arise out of poverty in large measure because they are caught in the crossfire between India and Pakistan. The land which their elders knew as a mountain paradise has been turned into a living hell.

Of the four million people who inhabit the region, nine of 10 live in extremely impoverished conditions in rural areas. Population growth is excessive, at 2.4 per cent per year, and the average house holds no fewer than seven people. Sadly, Azad Kashmir’s future is as murky today as it was in 1947. And the objective for its creation, the liberation of the vale of Kashmir, seems increasingly remote.

 

[ice_man]

ok where are the stone peltting people where is street protests like in indian held kashmir? why aren't the kashmiris collabrating with indians to screw pakistanis over?????

PICTURES speak a thousdand words! the international community that indians love to call "neutral" never raised any concern about azaad kashmir persecution did they? no kashmiri freedom struggle is being led in azaad kashmir is it?

 

[EjazR]

^^^^ International community not raising the human rights issues in Pakistani Kashmir? My friend you are mistaken, Pakistani Kashmir including the northern areas have been regularly on the watch list of almost all international bodies.

You can do a google search on Human Rights watch reports, International Crisis Group, UNHCR, and the recent EU parliamentary report under Baroness Emma on Kashmir in 2007 and the resolution that was passed by an overwhelming majority vote after-wards