Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Gazzi]

Will Pakistan agree to a joint Indian investigation into all of its alleged state sponsored terrorism not only in Asia but internationally ? I think not. People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones

Ditto,

India to date has refused to allow outside independent investigation even with Pakistan over atrocities in Kashmir which is a disputed terrotiry. Now, were finding mass graves. What makes you think Pakistan will now allow India in their country. Did India allow Pakistan into theirs, or allow Pakistani investigators into India for the Mumbai attacks for a joint or independent Investigations.

 

[ssheppard]

JAMMU: In a new twist to the Shopian case, the Central Bureau of Investigation has ruled out that the two women were raped or murdered as alleged by relatives and later by people in the Kashmir Valley, leading to a turmoil for nearly two months.

Case of drowning

The CBI concluded that they died of drowning. It has also filed a charge sheet against 13 people including doctors and lawyers for misleading the investigation.

The CBI finding is contained in the final report it submitted before the Jammu and Kashmir High Court on Monday. A Bench of Chief Justice Barin Ghosh and Justice Mohammad Yaqoob Mir held in-camera proceedings, after the Majlis-e-Mushawarat, the body spearheading the agitation in the case, refused to be part of the exercise. The case has been posted to the third week of February 2010.

CBI counsel Anil Bhan said: “The CBI has finalised its investigation. It is a case of drowning [in the local Rambiar Nallah]. It is neither a case of rape or murder. The CBI has chargesheeted 13 persons for fabrication of evidence.”

Mr. Bhan presented a 66-page report and other documents, as directed by the court at its October 13 hearing.

The CBI charge sheet, filed in the Chief Judicial Magistrate Court in Srinagar on December 10, indicted 13 people including six doctors and five lawyers “for misleading the investigations and fabricating evidence about rape and murder.”

The CBI has also given a clean chit to five police officers, including the then Shopian SP, Javed Iqbal Mattoo, who were arrested and later suspended by the government.

PowerPoint presentation

Justice Ghosh raised some queries after the report was presented and the CBI counsel sought permission for making a PowerPoint presentation to answer them.

However, Abdur Rashid Dalal, president of the Majlis, intervened saying the Majlis did not want to be part of the CBI presentation.

“The Majlis has already expressed reservations and apprehensions and dissociated itself from the CBI. In fact, we have never been part of the CBI investigation. Like the Special Investigation Team, the CBI too is trying to hush up the case. I hope you won’t allow the case to be buried by the CBI.”

“Not a gospel of truth”

But the Chief Justice maintained that “the CBI report is not a gospel of truth. Without being part of the investigations, would you like to be part of the PowerPoint presentation?”

Mr. Dalal again refused, saying he had some material against the AIIMS doctors involved in exhumation of the bodies. “What is new in the report? The CBI has already made selective leaks to some selected mediapersons. Recently the CBI flouted the theory of drowning, saying the women were drowned in the shallow waters even though the Jan Commission ruled out drowning.”

Presentation opposed

The PowerPoint presentation was opposed also by Shakeel Ahangar, husband and brother of the two women.

After the in-camera proceedings, the Chief Justice said Mr. Bhan submitted that the investigation was complete.


The Hindu : Front Page : CBI rules out rape, murder in Shopian case



So these so called Activists ...don't want to sit in the presentation discussing the case....they don't want to question...they don't want answers....The only have one agenda.... malign Security forces doing whatever.

they said they wanted the case probed ..by a special investigation...they got it....They said they want CBI...they got it....and now that the investigation has caught them pants down...they are crying foul....

These so called activists are no more than paid merceneries...who just want to make money and raise their stink all over the valley.

 

[EjazR]

Oh oh oh.............I think we have to agree with the Indian CBI as we will be accussed by our Indian brothers of prejudice. I do however, agree that the Indians should also agree with Pakistans investigation with Indian state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan and nearly all its neighbouring countries without reservation also.

I do however, seem baffled that post mortem results before revealed something totally different and now we are being told something else.....this is definately wrong as there CANNOT be two results especially of a sexual nature, it is not possible as I have dealt with post mortems and there is no way you can have two different results.

Which initial post mortem are you talking about? The one held under CBI supervision was done by doctors from Delhi AIIMS and MAjlis Mashurat (the committee spearheading the agitation) were present when it was conducted as well as the victims relatives.

 

[Gazzi]

Which initial post mortem are you talking about? The one held under CBI supervision was done by doctors from Delhi AIIMS and MAjlis Mashurat (the committee spearheading the agitation) were present when it was conducted as well as the victims relatives.

What the hell does the Majlis Mashurat or the relatives of the family know if sexual intercourse had taken place and what the samples were and what the results are........are they qualified in this aspect....no, this is nothing but window shopping by India.

 

[ssheppard]

What the hell does the Majlis Mashurat or the relatives of the family know if sexual intercourse had taken place and what the samples were and what the results are........are they qualified in this aspect....no, this is nothing but window shopping by India.

Going by the same logic....how the hell do they know that women was raped and Murdered.........Did anyone see them being raped and murdered.


May be the whole village decided on their own that since the women are already dead...lets play some politics over the dead bodies...and earn some Pakistan Moolah.

 

[EjazR]

@Gazzi

Its better you inform yourself of the facts rather than question for the sake of questioning. Let me inform you that the older sister was also said to be pregnant but the relatives and the autopsy proved that, this was false as well.

It is a great tragedy that these two young women died, but some people are disgustingly trying to make mileage. Maybe they don't know that it is haram and one of the greatest sins to give false witness. There have been other cases were investigations have been done and the culprits punished, there should be no excuse for security or army personnel IF they committed such crimes. But those who put false allegation which in turn makes it difficult for genuine rape victims to get justice should be punished. They have by their foolish action made it more difficult for real victims to get justice by their foolish act.

Shopian autopsy report reveals shocking fact
In a new twist to the Shopian case, forensic scientists have found that one of the two victims was a virgin, thereby ruling out the possibility of a rape.

Forensic scientists from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, who accompanied the Central Bureau of Investigation's team, have found during autopsy of the exhumed bodies that the hymen of 17-year-old Aasiya Jan was intact, official sources said on Tuesday.

The forensic experts have shown the intact hymen to doctors of Mushawarat Majlis-e-Committee, the group which spearheaded the 47-day agitation against the alleged rape and murder of the two women by security personnel, who were present at the site.

A special CBI forensic team on Monday collected samples from the bodies of the two women after exhuming them nearly four months after the incident.

The team, comprising senior doctor from AIIMS, collected a number of samples from the bodies in a process that started at 7 am and continued for nine hours.

They conducted the autopsy after obtaining necessary approval of the families of the victims -- 22-year-old Neelofar and her sister-in-law Aasiya

 

[ssheppard]

The bottom line is...The investigation is done....and all parties were a part of the same......the judge has said ...CBI has submitted report...and I don't consider it to be Gospel...If these so called activists have got proof that these were murders....present the proof ...in front of the court and bust CBI.....but they can't do that....and they don't want to do that...because they don't have anything...all fake lies.....nothing else but a money making game......

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You mean besides making it apparent that the so called 'popular' sentiment is actually a result of incitement by Pakistan and therefore, in reality, it is not a 'people's' movement, but merely a ruse to achieve Pakistan's irredentist ambitions, altogether putting an enormous question mark on the claim of 'spontaneity' of the so called 'Kashmir freedom struggle'; on the 'legitimacy' of any movement that calls for accession to Pakistan, or even independence; on the 'free and fairness' of any plebiscite if held (and thus validating India's stand); on the credibility of the leaders (who, although claim to be representative of people of Kashmir, are in reality, representative of Pakistan).

Nope, there is nothing wrong. Everything is hunky-dory. Its business as usual.

Nonsensical verbosity - political movements need funds - Pakistan providing funds to a popular movement protesting Indian occupation does automatically imply that the movement is not popular.

Every thing is hunky dory thank you.

 

[toxic_pus]

Nonsensical verbosity...

Yeah sure.

 

[Hulk]

Today there is protest in J&K and these people who are paid has to set it up to get money in future.
So protest are created, I will doscunt protest in future.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In fact, India goes to great lengths to keep the aged Syed Ali Gilani alive, making sure he gets the best treatment in hospitals in Delhi and Srinagar.

Perhaps too high profile for the Indian security forces to openly torture, murder and bury in a mass grave like the thousands of other Kashmiris.

He keeps harping on unification with Pakistan, and imposition of Sharia Law. That serves as a useful reminder to the people about the nightmare of Talibanization that they will descend into, should the separatists get their way.

This argument is a canard designed to get the West's support by raising the bogeyman of 'Islamist terrorism' by painting the Kashmiri Freedom Movement as some sort of 'Taliban'. One set of leaders advocating in favor of a theocratic style of government does not serve as 'useful reminder' of anything. There are other leaders who would not want a Taliban style system, and at the end of the day, either as a part of India or as a part of Pakistan, the people of kashmir have to choose their system of government, and so far they have rejected Talibanism in both nations.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yeah sure.

Of course - you know your argument was illogical. Funding from Pakistan for a movement has no implications on whether the movement itself has popular support or not.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Today there is protest in J&K and these people who are paid has to set it up to get money in future.
So protest are created, I will doscunt protest in future.

Yes these protests are all paid - then why not hold a referendum and really test your hypothesis and end the dispute? The majority will choose India going by your logic right?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Kashmiris protest against reports of women’s case

Tuesday, 15 Dec, 2009

SRINAGAR: A protest strike shut down Indian-administered Kashmir on Tuesday after investigators said two women allegedly raped and murdered had actually died by drowning, triggering angry claims of a cover-up.

Public anger and outbreaks of violence shook the region in May after the bodies of the two Muslim women were found in a stream. Locals said they had been sexually abused and killed by the security forces.

The strike closed shops, offices, banks and post offices in the Kashmiri summer capital of Srinagar and other Muslim-majority towns, including the victims’ home town of Shopian, witnesses said.

Hundreds of Kashmiris held noisy anti-government demonstrations in Shopian overnight as authorities deployed riot police to avert any new mass unrest over the case.

‘We urge the people of Kashmir to observe a complete shutdown against the concocted story presented by the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigations) before the court,’ Abdul Rasheed Deva, one of the protest leaders, told AFP.

Police initially said the 17-year-old girl and her 22-year-old sister-in-law had drowned, but later agreed they might have been raped and murdered. In September, the CBI took over the case.

In a report for India’s high court on Monday, the federal agency concluded that the two had drowned, ruling out rape and murder.

Even some pro-India politicians rejected the CBI’s conclusions.

‘The whole charade of investigations by multiple agencies was aimed at shielding the culprits rather than bringing them to book,’ said Mehbooba Mufti, the leader of the main opposition People’s Democratic Party.

The government has yet to react to the report.

DAWN.COM | World | Kashmiris protest against reports of women?s case

 

[Hulk]

Yes these protests are all paid - then why not hold a referendum and really test your hypothesis and end the dispute? The majority will choose India going by your logic right?

The organisor are paid, they spread false information and gullible people fall for it. So that might mean that they hate India for none of their faults as masters are spreading false information.

Common people are generally not smart and can make into to believe what is not true. (e.g. No evidence of Indian involvement is provided to common public but they believe India is behined all attacks in Pakistan, managing perceptions by ISI, I can say and they have experience in India so they are doing it well in Pakistan)

I am all for referendum but given this information, I do not think it is right time, since lot of false propoganda is going on. I can see conspiracy against India here.

We can fix a timetable and do it, that is my take, but I do not think GOI listens to me and they are not going to do it.

ISI and GOP have waged a propoganda war against us.