Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[dabong1]

At the same time India must be given the right to do pursue active progress on their own side. This will only happen when article 370 is withdrawn. The entire Indian economic gravy train needs to be unleashed upon Kashmir as it has for other states of the union.

The "economic gravy train" you talk of needs to be "unleashed" on the numerous millions of indian poors who live in slum city's and abject poverty.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I dont know if you have been to AJK but let me assure you of one thing we have a better standard of living then our relations in IOK.
My mums cousin came a couple of years ago and the first thing he noticed was the higher standard of living we had in AJK then those in IOK.
If the pak govt feels the way you do ,then i think its time to merge AJK into the federation of pakistan.

Thank you for the responses Dabong.

On the issue of merging AJK into Pakistan, I am all for it, though I suspect that Pakistan would not want to take such a move without some sort of movement towards a final resolution of the dispute with India.

Whats the sentiment in AJK about merging with Pakistan?

 

[Vinod2070]

The "economic gravy train" you talk of needs to be "unleashed" on the numerous millions of indian poors who live in slum city's and abject poverty.

Yes. A great suggestion.

All that is needed is to provide proper connectivity and education to the poor and they will lift themselves out of poverty. Unfortunately the governance and delivery systems leave a lot to be desired.

The hope is that more and more of education and infrastructure becomes independent of the government, so that like economy, the social development becomes independent of the corrupt and inept politician-bureaucrat nexus.

 

[Xeric]

I think the following are the options available to us to get the Kashmir Issue solved...you may like to add more..

OPTIONS FOR THE SOLUTION OF KASHMIR PROBLEM
The options for solution, discussed in succeeding paragraphs, offer ample food for thought to the concerned parties. They are not absolute in nature and will generate varying responses from different quarters. However, these should be seriously viewed as one of them would eventually become the reality.
# Option 1 – Plebiscite Option. Accession of entire Kashmir to India or Pakistan through the right of self determination by the Kashmiris on both sides of LOC, as stipulated in UN resolutions.
a. Consequences for Pakistan
> Sole option recorded with the UN, which had the consent of both India and Pakistan when formulated.
> Upholds the official position of Pakistan.
> Will be in line with the partition plan thus fulfilling the aspirations of people of Pakistan and Muslims of Kashmiris.
> The possible accession of Kashmir to Pakistan can remove her strategic vulnerabilities, besides offering security to the Silk Route between China and Pakistan.
> Plebiscite proposal is in sympathy with the historic aspects also, as Bengal and Punjab got divided on this basis.
> Accession of Kashmir will tremendously boost the economy of Pakistan.
> Will remove the economical and military vulnerabilities of Pakistan forever by putting the rivers flowing through Kashmir under the control of Pakistan.
> Will help to create a balance of power in the presence of already estb nuclear parity in the region in case Kashmiris opt for Pakistan.
> Demographic changes in Indian Held Kashmir and use of force by India may tilt the opinion of the majority in favour of India which will further weaken Pakistan. In case of its materialization, it also entails that:-
> Pakistan will have to loose AJ&K, Baltistan, Gilgit (Northern Areas).
> Pakistan will be deprived of its only land link – the Silk Route, to China; her only traditional ally in the region.
> Pakistan’s economy and defense will be sooner in shambles by India having the control of all the rivers flowing through Kashmir and Northern Areas.
> It may also result in large scale communal disturbances and riots destabilizing the whole region.
> Will establish Indian hegemony in the region beyond doubt.
> The proposal may require the demilitarization of the whole state: to be placed under UN troops for some time.
> Plebiscite may also entail certain rehabilitations and border adjustment problems.
b. Consequences for India
> In the prospect of Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan India will be deprived of entire state.
> Indians authorities are firmly of the opinion that giving Kashmir the right of self determination, let alone its accession to Pakistan in the wake of any such exercise, will spark off similar demands from other states of India thus threatening the very integrity of Indian Union.
> In case India is successful to manipulate the plebiscite, the problem will still not be solved due to resistance of Muslim population.
> In case of Kashmir going to India, the already disturbed balance of power will tilt in favour of India permanently.
# Option 2 - Partition Option. Division of Kashmir along Muslim /non-Muslim majority areas. In practical terms, it would mean; accession of Northern Areas, Kashmir valley, Azad Kashmir and Muslim majority areas of Jammu with Pakistan and Laddakh and Hindu majority areas of Jammu with India:-
a. Consequence for Pakistan
> Pakistan would retain Azad Kashmir and Northern Areas and also acquire additional territory in Kashmir valley, Northern Areas and Jammu district.
> From defense point of view, it will result into a stronger Pakistan.
> Pakistan’s strategic vulnerabilities will also be addressed to a certain extent.
> Valley and other fertile areas coming to Pakistan will strengthen Pakistan’s economy.
> Link with China will be maintained.
> A sizeable population in Pakistan and Kashmir will oppose it as in reality; it will be a step back from the original position from Pakistan’s view point.
> The chances of future escalation between Pakistan and can not be ruled out permanently.
b. Consequences for India
> India will have to give a portion of area under her Control to Pakistan and this could result into similar Kind of reaction from Indian population as in case of Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan as a result of Plebiscite.
> All the disadvantages of Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan (in case of plebiscite) are applicable in this Option to a certain extent.
# Option 3 - Independent Kashmir Option. It envisages an independent and sovereign state consisting of all parts of Jammu & Kashmir. This option is being very vigorously propagated by Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) and has also found favour in some western countries. Implications of this proposal are:-
a. Implications For Pakistan
> In case this option is coupled with plebiscite option, it will divide the Muslim votes into three choices; accession to Pakistan, accession to India or Independent Kashmir. Whereas non-Muslim Votes are likely to be caste in India’s favour. This may ultimately tilt the result of plebiscite in favour of India thus paving the way for Kashmir’s accession to India.
> It would further accentuate the strategic vulnerabilities of Pakistan both in economic and military terms.
> Pakistan will have to give up not only AJ&K but also Northern Areas.
> Hindu population is likely to start the movement for integration of Hindu majority areas with India.
> Negates the very basic nature of Indian Independence Act.
> May be accepted by India as a “worst case scenario”.
> Pakistan will come under greatest pressure, it wills not only have to loose AJ&K and Northern Areas but also the Mangla Dam (situated in areas of AJ&K) and thus the future of the water of Rivers Jhelum and Chenab (flowing from Kashmir) will become uncertain.
b. Implications for India
> India will have to loose both Jammu and Laddakh.
> It may result into similar demands from other former princely states also.
> The Hindu population in the state will be left without any safeguards.
d. Viability of an Independent Kashmir. It will also be not out of place to analyse the viability of Independent Kashmir:-
> Independent Kashmir without solid economic aid from outside is not feasible.
> Kashmir will be land locked country and it will have to have equal relations with both India and Pakistan. In addition, there is a very strong likelihood of an independent Kashmir becoming a hot bed of International intrigue.
> In its historical background also, it is divorced from and an affront to the history and realities of the problem.
> The demographic realities are also diametrically opposed to the idea of independence especially in the absence of a movement for independence in Jammu, Laddakh, Northern Areas of Pakistan and AJ&K.
# Option 4 – Converting LOC Into Border. Present LOC becoming the international border with some minor adjustments. The idea has been proposed by India many times but rejected by Pakistan. The implications are:-
a. Implications For Pakistan
> The proposal ignores the ground realities, since de-facto partition in vogue has been equivocally rejected by the people of Kashmir.
> Amounts to compromising the principled stand on Kashmir for almost 55 years, besides betrayal to the Kashmiri struggle.
> It would leave a large Muslim dominated territory in Indian Control. Similarly, Pakistan’s strategic vulnerabilities will not be addressed.
> Pakistan’s economy and defense capability will always be under a constant threat.
> Kashmir problem will continue to linger on constantly being a threat to the security of the region.
b. Implications For India. India will be at a much advantageous position in case this option materializes as she has the control of more than 65% area of the state besides establishing her hegemonic role in the region beyond doubt.
# Option 5 – Military Option (War With India). There are certain groups in Pakistan who favour this option. However, it is neither in Pakistan’s interest nor Kashmiris, that their struggle for self determination should be side tracked by Indo-Pak war. Implications of this option are:-
> The Kashmir struggle would go in the back ground.
> It could lead to nuclear confrontation between the two Countries.
> Pakistan’s economy does not warrant under taking this option.
> Indians may prevail due to their long hold in held Kashmir and military might.
> Pakistan would be condemned internationally for initiating the war. Hence, whatever support we have mustered so far would be lost.

Recommended Option
The only viable option in light of above study is the “Plebiscite Option”. A UN supervised plebiscite in the state to determine the will of Kashmiri people is the only way to decide the question of state’s final accession. South Asia today stands on the precipice of a nuclear catastrophe. Let the international community assert its will through the UN to find a lasting solution to the dispute.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

2EMAEmJ8Cys[/media] - KASHMIR - THE INDIAN MILITARY'S SLAUGHTER HOUSE

There is no chance for peace in kashmir through talks, people will forever be scarred. The only way is to help these people get independence.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Kashmir’s new headache: Hindu militants

By Iftikhar Gilani in New Delhi

The recent arrest of some Hindus for allegedly abetting and funding militants in Jammu and Kashmir, coupled with the killing of a Hindu commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen, has thrown new light on militancy in the state.

Although the association of Hindus with militancy in Kashmir is not new, this became apparent with the arrest of a Hindu doctor S K Pandita, who was charged with sheltering militants, followed by the arrest of a Kashmiri Pandit Dalip Kumar, who was involved in financing them. This came in the wake of the killing of a Hindu area commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen, identified as Uttam Singh alias Saifullah, in Doda district.


Intelligence agencies have so far identified 40 to 50 Hindu youth who have taken up arms in Doda, Rajouri and Poonch. According to Rajouri Senior Superintendent of Police, J P Singh, the police have already identified three of the seven top Hindu militants from the Rajouri-Poonch area.

Of the three, Sham Lal and Kirpal Singh belong to the Hizbul Mujahideen and Sanjay to the Lashkar-e-Toiba. Singh claimed all of them have crossed the Line of Control (LoC) for arms training.

One of them is also an area commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen. He added that the police had trapped Sham Lal two months ago, but he escaped while five of his accomplices were shot dead.

A senior police officer believes that the idealism associated with militancy, hunger for power and opportunities to extort money are the factors that lure Hindu boys into it. Unemployment and poverty, especially in the remote areas, are also catalysts.

"However, their number is very small and we are holding interactive sessions with leaders from both the Muslim and Hindu community to stop their youth from committing acts of violence," he said.

Almost three months ago, a teenage Hindu girl, Neena, was arrested from Rajouri for assisting militants. Police later said that she had fallen in love with a Hizbul Mujahideen district commander, Shamshuddin.

According to police, she facilitated the passage of several Hindu and Muslim militants, and had arranged for food and shelter for them.

The involvement of Hindus in insurgency dates back to 1992, when a youth was killed while trying to throw a grenade in a busy Jammu chowk. The association became more evident when, in 2001, security forces killed a Hindu militant Kuldeep Singh—along with seven other —in a fierce encounter at Chatter Gali in Doda district.

His elder brother Randeep Singh is still a commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen in Doda district.

According to police files, Lal Chand, the son of a local farmer, had crossed over to Pakistan occupied Kashmir (***) in 1997 and returned to Doda in 2001, after undergoing arms training. In the following year, security forces arrested Bharat Kumar from the Satwari area of Jammu city with arms and ammunition. He had received military training for four years in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The police also arrested another Hindu, a noted smuggler from the border town of RS Pura, who was found involved in Jammu's Raghunath temple attack in 2002. In November 2004, Manoj Kumar Manhas, a Hizbul Mujahideen activist, was among the 47 militants who surrendered before the Army. Manoj Kumar had revealed that another Hindu militant, Baldev Singh, who is still absconding, lured him into militancy.

The recent arrests of a doctor and a financer have added a new dimension to the whole saga. Earlier, authorities would blame unemployment, hunger and remoteness for this phenomenon. S K Pandita, was said to be heading a state government dispensary at Gund Thethar in Doda.

He was arrested when it was found that he had treated a Hizbul Mujahideen militant injured in a blast on August 10. Pandita confessed that he had been harbouring militants of the Hizbul Mujahideen and the Lashkar-e-Toiba for over a decade.

According to Garib Das, superintendent of police, Banihal, the doctor disclosed during interrogation that he had also been acting as a courier for the militants, carrying their messages and ammunition.

The editor of a local weekly Sada-e-Kohsar, Haq Nawaz Nehru says that besides romanticism, it is police atrocities that force Hindu youth to join militant ranks.

However, police officials said most of those who have joined militants are criminals.

Ghambir Chand, father of Hindu militant Baldev, claims that some gunmen had abducted his son when he had taken cattle to the nearby forests for grazing.

"When he escaped from the militants' custody and reached home after 10 days, I personally took him to the nearby Army camp for questioning," he said. There they detained his son for two months and later handed him over to the Bhaderwah police.

"A week later, he was released. But he was picked up again, this time by the Special Operations Group [SOG], immediately after we reached home," Baldev's father said. The SOG tortured him, but he escaped from their custody after a month and later resurfaced as a militant.

Kashmir’s new headache: Hindu militants - Sify.com

 

[dabong1]

Thank you for the responses Dabong.

On the issue of merging AJK into Pakistan, I am all for it, though I suspect that Pakistan would not want to take such a move without some sort of movement towards a final resolution of the dispute with India.

Bro no disrespect but the "final resolution" you talk of is what we have now.
The indians want "peace" just as long they have total control in IOK...which they they have at the moment.
If musharaff had banned the kashmiri military groups before 9/11 under no pressure ,things in the peace process might have different.......i think we might have reached some sort of fudged peace.....i little bit of give and take.
But the circumstances in which musharaff cut off the freedom movement was from a point of weakness.......thats why the indians will budge 1 inch on the issue.

There is only one "final resolution" and that is for kashmir to join pakistan.

Musharaff could have got the US to "turn a blind eye" to the kashmir struggle in some sort of a deal for helping the US against the taliban.

Whats the sentiment in AJK about merging with Pakistan?

If you asked the question on the street ,my opinion would be that at the start of the conversation they want an independent kashmir,but once you go deeper most people end up wanting to join pakistan.

 

[dabong1]

Yes. A great suggestion.

All that is needed is to provide proper connectivity and education to the poor and they will lift themselves out of poverty. Unfortunately the governance and delivery systems leave a lot to be desired.

The hope is that more and more of education and infrastructure becomes independent of the government, so that like economy, the social development becomes independent of the corrupt and inept politician-bureaucrat nexus.

 

[dabong1]

Kashmir’s new headache: Hindu militants

By Iftikhar Gilani in New Delhi

The recent arrest of some Hindus for allegedly abetting and funding militants in Jammu and Kashmir, coupled with the killing of a Hindu commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen, has thrown new light on militancy in the state.

Although the association of Hindus with militancy in Kashmir is not new, this became apparent with the arrest of a Hindu doctor S K Pandita, who was charged with sheltering militants, followed by the arrest of a Kashmiri Pandit Dalip Kumar, who was involved in financing them. This came in the wake of the killing of a Hindu area commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen, identified as Uttam Singh alias Saifullah, in Doda district.


Intelligence agencies have so far identified 40 to 50 Hindu youth who have taken up arms in Doda, Rajouri and Poonch. According to Rajouri Senior Superintendent of Police, J P Singh, the police have already identified three of the seven top Hindu militants from the Rajouri-Poonch area.

Of the three, Sham Lal and Kirpal Singh belong to the Hizbul Mujahideen and Sanjay to the Lashkar-e-Toiba. Singh claimed all of them have crossed the Line of Control (LoC) for arms training.

One of them is also an area commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen. He added that the police had trapped Sham Lal two months ago, but he escaped while five of his accomplices were shot dead.

A senior police officer believes that the idealism associated with militancy, hunger for power and opportunities to extort money are the factors that lure Hindu boys into it. Unemployment and poverty, especially in the remote areas, are also catalysts.

"However, their number is very small and we are holding interactive sessions with leaders from both the Muslim and Hindu community to stop their youth from committing acts of violence," he said.

Almost three months ago, a teenage Hindu girl, Neena, was arrested from Rajouri for assisting militants. Police later said that she had fallen in love with a Hizbul Mujahideen district commander, Shamshuddin.

According to police, she facilitated the passage of several Hindu and Muslim militants, and had arranged for food and shelter for them.

The involvement of Hindus in insurgency dates back to 1992, when a youth was killed while trying to throw a grenade in a busy Jammu chowk. The association became more evident when, in 2001, security forces killed a Hindu militant Kuldeep Singh—along with seven other —in a fierce encounter at Chatter Gali in Doda district.

His elder brother Randeep Singh is still a commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen in Doda district.

According to police files, Lal Chand, the son of a local farmer, had crossed over to Pakistan occupied Kashmir (***) in 1997 and returned to Doda in 2001, after undergoing arms training. In the following year, security forces arrested Bharat Kumar from the Satwari area of Jammu city with arms and ammunition. He had received military training for four years in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The police also arrested another Hindu, a noted smuggler from the border town of RS Pura, who was found involved in Jammu's Raghunath temple attack in 2002. In November 2004, Manoj Kumar Manhas, a Hizbul Mujahideen activist, was among the 47 militants who surrendered before the Army. Manoj Kumar had revealed that another Hindu militant, Baldev Singh, who is still absconding, lured him into militancy.

The recent arrests of a doctor and a financer have added a new dimension to the whole saga. Earlier, authorities would blame unemployment, hunger and remoteness for this phenomenon. S K Pandita, was said to be heading a state government dispensary at Gund Thethar in Doda.

He was arrested when it was found that he had treated a Hizbul Mujahideen militant injured in a blast on August 10. Pandita confessed that he had been harbouring militants of the Hizbul Mujahideen and the Lashkar-e-Toiba for over a decade.

According to Garib Das, superintendent of police, Banihal, the doctor disclosed during interrogation that he had also been acting as a courier for the militants, carrying their messages and ammunition.

The editor of a local weekly Sada-e-Kohsar, Haq Nawaz Nehru says that besides romanticism, it is police atrocities that force Hindu youth to join militant ranks.

However, police officials said most of those who have joined militants are criminals.

Ghambir Chand, father of Hindu militant Baldev, claims that some gunmen had abducted his son when he had taken cattle to the nearby forests for grazing.

"When he escaped from the militants' custody and reached home after 10 days, I personally took him to the nearby Army camp for questioning," he said. There they detained his son for two months and later handed him over to the Bhaderwah police.

"A week later, he was released. But he was picked up again, this time by the Special Operations Group [SOG], immediately after we reached home," Baldev's father said. The SOG tortured him, but he escaped from their custody after a month and later resurfaced as a militant.

Kashmir’s new headache: Hindu militants - Sify.com

I knew that the other kashmir freedom fighting groups had hindu/sikh members but i never thought LeT would have hindu members.............

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

I knew that the other kashmir freedom fighting groups had hindu/sikh members but i never thought LeT would have hindu members.............

you'd be surprised, i don't know why it happens either? I guess they've had their share of humiliation from indian soldiers.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

If you asked the question on the street ,my opinion would be that at the start of the conversation they want an independent kashmir,but once you go deeper most people end up wanting to join pakistan.

same here, any kashmiri muslim I talk with whether they're family or friend would rather opt for joining pakistan. Kashmiri's are too embedded in our culture. My guess is they would rather say independence to appease indians.

Musharraf should have never cut off those groups. india hasn't budged and has only caused more problems for us in balochistan. The moment we let go of the offensive, we are wide open to attack. Stability comes before economy, which some people unfortunately still don't understand.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

in my opinion, the best option is to let the inhabitants of the Kashmir Valley hold a plebiscite. Convince India and Pakistan, that they can keep Northern Areas and Ladakh ( and other hindu majority parts).

Pakistan should also give up AJK, which they've already done in essence. AJK and the Kashmir Valley, compromising muslim majority areas should be independent.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

in my opinion, the best option is to let the inhabitants of the Kashmir Valley hold a plebiscite. Convince India and Pakistan, that they can keep Northern Areas and Ladakh ( and other hindu majority parts).

Pakistan should also give up AJK, which they've already done in essence. AJK and the Kashmir Valley, compromising muslim majority areas should be independent.

I would agree with that as being a feasible solution.

The Kashmir Valley gets to become independent, or autonomous/jointly administered, while Jammu, Laddakh and Northern Areas get integrated into India and Pakistan respectively.

I believe its one of the proposals Musharraf floated, and going by an article I read, a RAW chief was in favor of looking at solutions outside of India's stated inflexibility. Advani apparently took umbrage at that idea and shot it down.

In his recently published book, ‘My Country, My Life’, Advani wrote that his approach to dealing with the separatists had been significantly different to that of Brajesh Mishra, National Security adviser, and AS Dulat, former RAW chief. He said he had become upset at the impression doled out by Dulat, who was serving as an adviser in the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) on Jammu and Kashmir, that the government was prepared to look at solutions to the Kashmir “issues” that were not within the purview of the Indian constitution.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[Flintlock]

^^^I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately or fortunately.

Kashmir is indeed showing signs of integrating with the rest of india. Massive infrastructure investment is being done in kashmir and the govt. is going all out to woo kashmiris.

So, its a rather delicate situation. If Pakistan resumes terrorism on a massive scale, then it will lose its credibility in the international media.

On the other hand, if Pakistan sits back and watches, Kashmir will normalize within the next decade.

So, the most practical solution is making LOC the border.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately or fortunately.

Kashmir is indeed showing signs of integrating with the rest of india. Massive infrastructure investment is being done in kashmir and the govt. is going all out to woo kashmiris.

So, its a rather delicate situation. If Pakistan resumes terrorism on a massive scale, then it will lose its credibility in the international media.

On the other hand, if Pakistan sits back and watches, Kashmir will normalize within the next decade.

So, the most practical solution is making LOC the border.

It has to be a solution that is acceptable to Kashmiris.

Given the continued lack of desire to hold a plebiscite in the region, I rather doubt that India is making any headway in terms of "hearts and minds". The presence of relatives and other Kashmiris living according to their own choice in relative prosperity in AK is always going to be a reminder of what could be.

However if the Kashmiris decide to stay with India, all power to them.