Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[arihant]

I dont think Pakistanis will accept it just for sake of their behaviour.

 

[dabong1]

'Our struggle is against wrong policies of Pakistan and not against the State of Pakistan

 

[Khajur]

'Our struggle is against wrong policies of Pakistan and not against the State of Pakistan

JKNLF President Mahmood Kashmiri expressed his deep anger on attitude of Pakistani High Commission officials. He said, 'They should have enough decency to come out and meet us. They have shown that they are worse than Indian officials. At least Indian officials respectfully take petition from us when we hold demonstrations outside the Indian High Commission'. He said, 'Our struggle is against wrong policies of Pakistan and not against the State of Pakistan, but you can see after refusing to accept petition some Kashmiris have shouted slogans against Pakistan. This is no way to win minds and hearts of people', he added.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Gilgit and Baltistan is not being merged into Pakistan, just like Azad Kashmir is not.

G-B has merely been extended more self-rule, which has largely been welcomed by the people of G-B, though the self-rule is not necessarily complete autonomy.

Finally, while the sentiments of Kashmiris are commendable, the UNSC resolutions do not offer a provision for independence, and Pakistan's official position has always been one based on the UNSC resolutions.

Kashmiri Independence (or rather autonomy with making the LoC irrelevant) is a possible option to resolve the dispute.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Can you please share some articles on the development being carried out in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir??

Search through the forum please, there are plenty, like this one:
http://www.dawn.com/2009/02/23/ebr1.htm

I recently read about the unhapiness in Kashmiri's on the recent Gilgit-Baltistan proposal for governance......So why are the people in *** unhappy even with all the developments and foreign investment??

The unhappiness stems from the impression that G-B is a part of a united kashmir, and that the self-government proposals somehow divide Kashmir and seek to annex it into Pakistan (which we cannot, as the GoP has clearly stated, since G-B falls under the UNSC resolutions), not from a 'lack of development and investment'.

Please read things in their proper context.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Kashmiri people send their reprentatives into Indian political structures so I can not accept that they are not so-called split ideology/momentum.

The people of Quebec also participated in the Canadian legislature and Canadian way of life, the people and leaders of South Asia participated in the British run government and institutions while struggling for freedom - so what's your point?

As UN resultion is concerned, this is not compulsery.

The UN resolutions remain the only neutral and consensus decision on resolving the dispute of Kashmir. The UNSC resolutions were accepted and committed to by all UNSC members, India and Pakistan, and the ruling of plebiscite is in sync with the rules of partition, under which any disputed accession was to be decided via plebiscite.

And in any case, if as you say the separatists are so few in number, India has nothing to fear from such a plebiscite.

The prequisite should be settling Kashmiri pundits and sikhs back into J&K, removing all forces etc.

There are also over 2 million Kashmiris, primarily from Pakistan's side, settled in Europe, primarily Britain. I assume they will be given a vote in such a plebiscite as well.

Kashmiri people has a right to vote every five years as rest of India does. And they are already exercising right to determination through vote.

That is not self-determination, and elections under India do not substitute for the plebiscite mandated by the rules of partition and UNSC resolutions - if that were the case then the UNSC resolutions would have stated that.

In any case, elections under Indian rule and occupation cannot be taken as acceptance of India just as elections in British India under British rule could not be taken as acceptance of British rule and occupation.

 

[trickey]

Its only a matter of time when Kashmiris on the other side of the LOC start wanting the same.

Its only human.

Cheers, Doc

Well, yes. Somehow, the simple things like job secuirty, religious freedom, equal opportunity, representative governance all seem to be swept under the carpet, when the ideologues butt in.
Even in this thread, folks are holding on to the belief of the presence of an abstract shared ideology, which will override all self-interest.
You only need to look at the latest J&K elections which was not about any friggin' ideology. Everyone was talking about bijli, sadak. That was the fig leaf argument made by the separatists themselves, not realizing that it was self-defeating.

 

[trickey]

The people of Quebec also participated in the Canadian legislature and Canadian way of life, the people and leaders of South Asia participated in the British run government and institutions while struggling for freedom - so what's your point?

The UN resolutions remain the only neutral and consensus decision on resolving the dispute of Kashmir. The UNSC resolutions were accepted and committed to by all UNSC members, India and Pakistan, and the ruling of plebiscite is in sync with the rules of partition, under which any disputed accession was to be decided via plebiscite.

And in any case, if as you say the separatists are so few in number, India has nothing to fear from such a plebiscite.

There are also over 2 million Kashmiris, primarily from Pakistan's side, settled in Europe, primarily Britain. I assume they will be given a vote in such a plebiscite as well.


That is not self-determination, and elections under India do not substitute for the plebiscite mandated by the rules of partition and UNSC resolutions - if that were the case then the UNSC resolutions would have stated that.

In any case, elections under Indian rule and occupation cannot be taken as acceptance of India just as elections in British India under British rule could not be taken as acceptance of British rule and occupation.

The UN resolution is the UNs leverage( that's to be used during nuclear tests, human rights abuses, trade wars etc.), not Pakistan's. Needless to say, Pakistan has no leverage over the UN. I.e. Pakistan has no leverage over India via the UN route. UN's resolutions have been diluted due to father time,lack of will and Pakistan's "moral and principled stand".
About the later, it has only served to keep international pressure off India's back. Nobody wants to appear to be supporting jihadis, even assuming that it was all a cunning Hindu fabrication.

About Pakistan's direct leverage over India, well, that has been unwisely expended. What India did not give up to 4 wars and terrorism, it is not about to give up to some negotiations,resolutions or transit barriers. IPI is also not going to materialize due to leverage mathematics. Nuclear blackmail would be about the best leverage Pakistan has at the moment.

 

[trickey]

the launch of RISAT2 on march 20 2009 and the increase in foiled infiltration seem to coincide.

Pakistan's pre-occupation in it's West also seems to coincide.

 

[vsdoc]

AM we ALL know what such "Independence" would actually mean, and how long it would last. So beyond the "jee hazoor, present sir, two bags full sir" customary parroting of the "official" line, I don't see what other purpose it would serve.

Whats better is that the people in the eye of the storm, the Kashmiris, know it too and are waking up from their religiously brainwashed slumber and speaking up.

All good things wouldn't you agree ...... especially since you (and all of us) want what's best for the Kashmiri man (and woman)?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Screaming Skull]

India asks China to stay out of Azad Kashmir​

Oct 14, 2009

A day after India and China sparred aggressively over the ownership status of Arunachal Pradesh, India said that China must cease activities in Pak-Occupied Kashmir.

In a response to a question on Pakistan- China projects in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (***), the official spokesperson of the government said: “We have seen the Xinhua report quoting the President of China as stating that China will continue to engage in projects with Pakistan inside Pakistan Occupied Kashmir."

"Pakistan has been in illegal occupation of parts of the Indian State of Jammu & Kashmir since 1947. The Chinese side is fully aware of India's position and our concerns about Chinese activities in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir."

"We hope that the Chinese side will take a long term view of the India-China relations, and cease such activities in areas illegally occupied by Pakistan.”

The Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) on Tuesday reiterated that the State of Arunachal Pradesh is an integral and inalienable part of India.

The statement issued by a spokesman of the ministry shortly after China expressed "strong" dissastisfaction over Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's recent visit to Arunachal Pradesh for electioneering.

"The State of Arunachal Pradesh is an integral and inalienable part of India. The people of Arunachal Pradesh are citizens of India. They are proud participants in the mainstream of India's vibrant democracy. The Chinese side is well aware of this position of the Government of India," said the official spokesperson.

"It is well established practice in our democratic system that our leaders visit States where elections to Parliament and to the State Assemblies are taking place. The Government of India is deeply committed to ensuring the welfare of its own citizens across the length and breadth of our country," the official spokesperson added.

Expressing disappointment over the statement made by the official spokesman of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the official spokesperson said: "India and China have jointly agreed that the outstanding boundary question will be discussed by the special representatives appointed by the two Governments. We, therefore, express our disappointment and concern over the statement made by the official spokesman of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, since this does not help the process of ongoing negotiations between the two Governments on the boundary question."

"India is committed to resolving outstanding differences with China in a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable manner, while ensuring that such differences are not allowed to affect the positive development of bilateral relations. We hope that the Chinese side will similarly abide by this understanding," the official spokesperson added.

On the same day, China's Ambassador to India Zhang Yang met officials of the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) shortly after his government expressed ‘strong’ dissastisfaction over Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Arunachal Pradesh during electioneering.

Earlier, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu had said: "We demand the Indian side address China's serious concerns and not trigger disturbance in the disputed region so as to facilitate the healthy development of China-India relations."

"China is strongly dissatisfied with the visit to the disputed region by the Indian leader disregarding China's serious concerns," Mas added in a statement posted on the ministry's website.

He noted that China and India had "never officially settled" demarcation of their border, and China's stance on the eastern section of the China-India border was "consistent and clear-cut".

The Indian Government has all along indicated that Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India and that the people of that state have a democratic right to elect a government of their choice.

Singh had toured and addressed an election rally in Arunachal Pradesh on October 3.

Recently, China had blocked a part of a loan to India from the Asian Development Bank (ADB) for developmental projects in Arunachal Pradesh. China also protested a visit to the state last month by exiled Tibetan leader the Dalai Lama.

India says China is illegally occupying 43,180 sq kms of Jammu and Kashmir. On the other hand, China accuses India of possessing some 90,000 sq km of Chinese territory, mostly in Arunachal Pradesh.

Singh had earlier visited Arunachal Pradesh on January 31 and February 1 and had then referred to it as "Our land of the rising sun" at a public rally, which was objected to by China.

China apparently saw it as India's assertion of its claim on Arunachal, which it claims is a "disputed territory".

India asks China to stay out of ***

 

[Screaming Skull]

Stay clear of Azad Kashmir: India tells China​

14 Oct 2009,

After number of statements from China on Arunachal Pradesh, the Indian government on Wednesday (October 14) finally hit lashed out. Hitting back at China, India took objection to its engagement in projects in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (***) and asked it to cease such activities taking "long-term view" of India-China relations.

A day after China objected to the visit of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to Arunachal Pradesh, External Affairs Ministry took a strong view of President Hu Jintao's remarks that China will continue to engage in projects with Pakistan inside Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

"Pakistan has been in illegal occupation of parts of the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir since 1947. The Chinese side is fully aware of India's position and our concerns about Chinese activities in Pakistan occupied Kashmir," External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said in a statement.

"We hope that the Chinese side will take a long term view of the India-China relations and cease such activities in areas illegally occupied by Pakistan," he said.

The Chinese President, during a meeting with Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani yesterday, outlined a major project to upgrade the Karakoram highway connecting the two countries overland and Chinese help in the Neelam-Jhelum hydroelectric project in ***.

"Howsoever, the international situation may change. The people of China and Pakistan are always joined in hearts and hands," Hu had said.

Meanwhile, Defence strategist Maroof Raza said that there is an established agreement between India and China that neither party will claim territory, where there is settled population.

Slamming China's objection over Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's recent visit to Arunachal Pradesh, he added that the PM has every right to visit the state because he is visiting a place within the Indian territory. "China will keep pushing their luck, till India stands up. The big question remains is Will India stand up?"

Stay clear of our ***: India tells China- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

 

[Nemesis]

We should also add that the PRC recognize Tibet's right to be independent.

 

[xukxuk]

thanks to let us know
we will think about it

 

[Patriot]

China's Response= .The projects are already inked with China.Besides, WHAT can India do if China does not stop?