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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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Kashmir is a nuclear bomb tucked under the armpit of a thief who thinks he has made off with the goods. If the Kashmir issue is not resolved, it will destroy India. Unfortunately, Nehru could not get this through his head, probably since he was a Kashmiri, but the people of the sub continent, and especially the hapless people of Kashmir who live in one the most heavily militarized regions on earth, with 650,000 occupation forces breathing down their neck, have paid a heavy price.

Good post buddy i appreciate it but change the word India to pakistan then it will be ok.
Pakistan has lost half of its country because of enmity on Kashmir issue and it is now a victim of the terrorism. Instead of giving lessons to India try to develop good relations with it.
I accept that presence of armed forces is making life difficult in Kashmir but it is acceptable because of challenges we face from the other side of the border.
As time passes Kashmirs will be integrated and the region will even come close to the rest India. :cheers:
 
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It will help the people of Kashmir by keeping their issue in the limelight at the premier international forum. The issue will remain a powder keg and a focus of international attendance and worry until it is resolved. This statement is not an isolated event, it is part of a diplomatic push that has won support from dozens and dozens of countries and international organizations.

Yes indeed but diplomatically pakistan is far behind India.

The strategy of ISI using the democratic means like protesting,mass movement of crowds and provoking armed forces and sacrificing Kashmiri youth seems to be working for a While :sniper:.
 
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Every indian should read this.

Buddy the statement in your signature is for making Pakistanis happy. It will have no affect to India or other countries because Pakistan is crying and making illegal claims since its birth :cheers:

Nice comments to cheer the dead morale of Isi and terrorists :P
 
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Yes, the type of nonsense that happen to be the truth? What better proof of your head being buried in the sand than the fact that an internationally recognized dispute on which there are numerous UN resolutions, and declarations by dozens of countries viz their support for the plight of the terrorized Kashmiri people, strikes you as an 'internal' issue. Violence is once more growing in Kashmir and the fact that the people of this area have not accepted Indian subjugation for 63 years should give you a clue...

Kashmir is a nuclear bomb tucked under the armpit of a thief who thinks he has made off with the goods. If the Kashmir issue is not resolved, it will destroy India. Unfortunately, Nehru could not get this through his head, probably since he was a Kashmiri, but the people of the sub continent, and especially the hapless people of Kashmir who live in one the most heavily militarized regions on earth, with 650,000 occupation forces breathing down their neck, have paid a heavy price.

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My original post was deleted with a reason that I was refering to foreign sponsored terrorism in Pakistan. I believe that the assumption that the terrorism in Pakistan is foreign sponsored is the moderator's own opinion which I may not agree to. But leaving that aside, I will try to reproduce my earlier response without refering to Pakistan's issues
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When was the last of the dozen UN resolutions that were passed by UN on Kashmir.. Wasnt in in 1950's or so??

When was it when a country of significance formally last asked India to get out of Kashmir (and I am not refering to non state players like a scattered MP or a NGO or some other Pakistani lackeys)

You talk about escalating violence based on last 3 months.. Trends are generally seen over a larger time. And a lot of Pakistani members have rubbished the trend around downward trajectory of Pakistani economy over last 3 years based on an arguement that 3 years is a short period to spot such a trend. Attaching some trends over a larger period of time that show a very different picture..




karan-1970-albums-t0-picture2670-j-k.jpg



Rest of your post is an uncharacteristic sermon and doesnt have much to respond to. On calling India a thief, well, We all know what the whole world including your frontline allys call Pakistan. Compared to that, if a moderator of a forum belonging to India's worst enemy calls India a thief, that not too much of skin off my back..

:cheers:

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Hope I have not violated any rules this time around..
 
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You've shot your own poorly concocted strawman argument in the head.

If the "court" is the UN, which is an institution that decides issues between countries, then the Kashmir issue as the "case" being decided is by definition internationalized and not an internal Indian issue.
And so starts the goal post shifting.

As usual missed the point; which is, administering Kashmir is India's internal affair, supported by all canons of law and even the UN resolutions, regardless if the 'issue' is international, being 'decided' by UN.

Secondly, Chapter VI resolutions have no legal binding in the same sense as verdict of a court of law has. What that implies is that UN under Chapter VI doesn't have the same standing as a court of law has. What that in turn implies is that UN under Chapter VI doesn't decide 'issues between countries', but merely recommends.

My analogy was meant to illustrate what possession implies. Whether the 'issue' of Kashmir is 'international', is irrelevant to the issue of administration of Kashmir. I can see that you can't make a distinction between the two.

A side note. The UN resolutions make it aptly clear that Kashmir on Indian side is to be administered by India and the portion that is to be vacated by Pakistan is to be administered by local authority under the supervision of UN. That actually makes Pakistan's administration of P0K illegal and against the UN resolutions.

Secondly, regardless of the conditions described in the UN resolutions, the conditions are to be fulfilled so that a plebiscite can take place. That also is a strong confirmation of how the world sees the Kashmir issue; an unfinished remnant of partition that will have to be decided. The current status quo is temporary and that is implicit in all UN resolutions.
Now this is what is called a strawman. How the world sees Kashmir issue is irrelevant to the question of whether administering Kashmir is India's sole prerogative and hence internal issue. In fact, even if we consider the 'current status quo' as 'temporary', it still doesn't take away the exclusive right of India to administer Kashmir.


Try again next time and this time acquaint yourself with the resolutions.
 
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Karan where is the 2010 data? I would be interested to see if violence in Kashmir during 2010 has further diminished or whether it is now on the upswing.

I would explain the reduction in violence in Kashmir in recent years to Pakistan's numerous efforts for reconciliation and peace with India. There are many groups in Kashmir which look to Pakistan for moral support and when there is potential for peace, Pakistan has used its diplomatic influence to persuade these groups to a moratorium in the hope of getting to a positive outcome. You have heard numerous statements from Kashmiri leaders concerning their views re India and Pakistan with reference to the latest crisis. To pretend that a situation which is plain as day simply does not exist is simply giving in to the urge to be disingenuous.

All Pakistan's overtures, most notably Musharraf's almost-cemented agreement, have been undermined by right-wingers in India. We are being led to believe that India does not want peace. It simply wants to lay claim to what is not its territory and run off, as I said previously, with a nuclear bomb tucked under its armpit. Forget Pakistan and India's stance - just look at the preponderance of statements, resolutions etc. in support of the recognition of Kashmir as an *international* dispute. When you say Kashmir is an "internal" issue, you lose all credibility.

As for the context within which a resolution can materialize, it is important to first accept that neither the Kashmiri people nor the people of Pakistan will be cowered or threatened. This is the fundamental issue India has had with Pakistan, in fact... that it expects Pakistan to accept India's hegemony over the region. That will never happen. Pakistan might be smaller than India, but as we all know, faced with an existential threat or a threat to its territory, it has more than enough potential (all rhetoric aside) to undo India completely, even if that results in the undoing of the sub continent.

As for Sukhoi's snide reference to Pakistan "losing its territory", you are welcome to bring up the creation of Bangladesh. And I will simply ask you whether you think the goals Indira Gandhi had for East Bengal have come to pass. Was Bangladesh reunited with India? Has it become a serf-state to India? Has it resolved all disputes with India? Has it lost its muslim identity? Does it now have a greater percentage of muslims in its population than it did in 1947? Let's ask some of the Bangladeshi members here to comment. Perhaps they can tell you what they think of India and its policies. With a calm mind, if you look at the net result of the '71 war, you will see that it was no victory for India. In any sense of the word. I am not the only one saying it. Numerous Indian analysts and strategists have opined similarly. But let's leave that aside for another day when we are discussing '71. I am simply responding to the little off-topic barb Sukhoi chose to throw in there...

Finally, let me tell you. Indians and Pakistani participants on this forum are NOT going to see eye to eye on Kashmir. For the love of God, it is a nuclear flashpoint as accepted by all the world's major powers and all the relevant, credible fora. Which "domestic" or "internal" issue is so potentially explosive?

So you can tow the official GoI line but know that while you do so, your own government repeatedly makes statements agreeing to discuss all issues, including Kashmir. Have you agreed to discuss any other "internal" issues with us? Or China? Or any other neighbour? If Kashmir is so "internal" why is your own government, and your own foreign office, on record for discussing a resolution with Pakistan?
 
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Now this is what is called a strawman. How the world sees Kashmir issue is irrelevant to the question of whether administering Kashmir is India's sole prerogative and hence internal issue. In fact, even if we consider the 'current status quo' as 'temporary', it still doesn't take away the exclusive right of India to administer Kashmir.


Try again next time and this time acquaint yourself with the resolutions.

And by administering you mean killing in cold blood? Because that's what's been happening. Administering a territory as a force of occupation does not exempt you from humanity.

Acquaint yourself with common sense and a basic understanding of humane behaviour and try again.
 
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To remind you nobody can stop the growing influence of India :smitten:

Let me know when the "growing influence of India" restores Kashmir's territory as an atoot angh, and when the desire for freedom of choice has been stamped out from the hearts of the Kashmiri people.

Until then, put a sock in it.
 
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And by administering you mean killing in cold blood? Because that's what's been happening. Administering a territory as a force of occupation does not exempt you from humanity.

Acquaint yourself with common sense and a basic understanding of humane behaviour and try again.
Keep shifting your posts for as much as you want and keep raising as many strawmen as you want. I wanted to establish the vacuity of your statement:

"What better proof of your head being buried in the sand than the fact that an internationally recognized dispute on which there are numerous UN resolutions, and declarations by dozens of countries viz their support for the plight of the terrorized Kashmiri people, strikes you as an 'internal' issue."

Having done that, I have nothing more to add.
 
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Karan where is the 2010 data? I would be interested to see if violence in Kashmir during 2010 has further diminished or whether it is now on the upswing.
Ministry of Home Affairs say it is:

Till July, 2010
Incidents: 310; SF Killed: 40; Civilians Killed: 24; Terrorists Killed: 130

And I will simply ask you whether you think the goals Indira Gandhi had for East Bengal have come to pass. Was Bangladesh reunited with India? Has it become a serf-state to India? Has it resolved all disputes with India? Has it lost its muslim identity? Does it now have a greater percentage of muslims in its population than it did in 1947?
So many strawmen. Mrs Gandhi's goal was never to reunite East Pakistan with India, to make it a serf-state to India, to make it loose Muslim identity or to reduce Muslim population.

So you can tow the official GoI line but know that while you do so, your own government repeatedly makes statements agreeing to discuss all issues, including Kashmir. Have you agreed to discuss any other "internal" issues with us? Or China? Or any other neighbour? If Kashmir is so "internal" why is your own government, and your own foreign office, on record for discussing a resolution with Pakistan?
Non-sequitur. India doesn't talk to Pakistan about how to run Kashmir, which is what India claims to be an internal issue.
 
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Keep shifting your posts for as much as you want and keep raising as many strawmen as you want. I wanted to establish the vacuity of your statement:

"What better proof of your head being buried in the sand than the fact that an internationally recognized dispute on which there are numerous UN resolutions, and declarations by dozens of countries viz their support for the plight of the terrorized Kashmiri people, strikes you as an 'internal' issue."

Having done that, I have nothing more to add.

If you were the only one you wanted to convince, you shouldn't have bothered voicing your opinion.
 
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Ministry of Home Affairs say it is:

Till July, 2010
Incidents: 310; SF Killed: 40; Civilians Killed: 24; Terrorists Killed: 130

Forgive me if I don't trust the opinion of the perpetrator himself.


Non-sequitur. India doesn't talk to Pakistan about how to run Kashmir, which is what India claims to be an internal issue.

Nonsense. India has often discussed how to administer Kashmir, in fact several points of the agreement Musharraf worked out with Vajpayee were focused on how to administer Kashmir. Jaswant Singh has validated this view. Please get current on your reading.
 
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Karan where is the 2010 data? I would be interested to see if violence in Kashmir during 2010 has further diminished or whether it is now on the upswing.

I would explain the reduction in violence in Kashmir in recent years to Pakistan's numerous efforts for reconciliation and peace with India. There are many groups in Kashmir which look to Pakistan for moral support and when there is potential for peace, Pakistan has used its diplomatic influence to persuade these groups to a moratorium in the hope of getting to a positive outcome. You have heard numerous statements from Kashmiri leaders concerning their views re India and Pakistan with reference to the latest crisis. To pretend that a situation which is plain as day simply does not exist is simply giving in to the urge to be disingenuous.

All Pakistan's overtures, most notably Musharraf's almost-cemented agreement, have been undermined by right-wingers in India. We are being led to believe that India does not want peace. It simply wants to lay claim to what is not its territory and run off, as I said previously, with a nuclear bomb tucked under its armpit. Forget Pakistan and India's stance - just look at the preponderance of statements, resolutions etc. in support of the recognition of Kashmir as an *international* dispute. When you say Kashmir is an "internal" issue, you lose all credibility.

As for the context within which a resolution can materialize, it is important to first accept that neither the Kashmiri people nor the people of Pakistan will be cowered or threatened. This is the fundamental issue India has had with Pakistan, in fact... that it expects Pakistan to accept India's hegemony over the region. That will never happen. Pakistan might be smaller than India, but as we all know, faced with an existential threat or a threat to its territory, it has more than enough potential (all rhetoric aside) to undo India completely, even if that results in the undoing of the sub continent.

As for Sukhoi's snide reference to Pakistan "losing its territory", you are welcome to bring up the creation of Bangladesh. And I will simply ask you whether you think the goals Indira Gandhi had for East Bengal have come to pass. Was Bangladesh reunited with India? Has it become a serf-state to India? Has it resolved all disputes with India? Has it lost its muslim identity? Does it now have a greater percentage of muslims in its population than it did in 1947? Let's ask some of the Bangladeshi members here to comment. Perhaps they can tell you what they think of India and its policies. With a calm mind, if you look at the net result of the '71 war, you will see that it was no victory for India. In any sense of the word. I am not the only one saying it. Numerous Indian analysts and strategists have opined similarly. But let's leave that aside for another day when we are discussing '71. I am simply responding to the little off-topic barb Sukhoi chose to throw in there...

Finally, let me tell you. Indians and Pakistani participants on this forum are NOT going to see eye to eye on Kashmir. For the love of God, it is a nuclear flashpoint as accepted by all the world's major powers and all the relevant, credible fora. Which "domestic" or "internal" issue is so potentially explosive?

So you can tow the official GoI line but know that while you do so, your own government repeatedly makes statements agreeing to discuss all issues, including Kashmir. Have you agreed to discuss any other "internal" issues with us? Or China? Or any other neighbour? If Kashmir is so "internal" why is your own government, and your own foreign office, on record for discussing a resolution with Pakistan?

2010 data is not yet published at the site. Since 2009 data came up in March of 2010, I expect the same for 2010.

I dont believe Pakistan has been trying a peaceful angle in Kashmir since 2001. And thats the start point of the trend. To think Pakistan is doing anything positive out of goodness of its heart is pure naivety. If Pakistan's support for Kashmiri groups has come down, its because of international pressure, the debacle in Kargil and linking of its support to insurgents in Kashmir to Cross border Islamic terrorism.

And again.. What statements and resolutions. I havent heard of any recent ones either from UN or any other significant nations. Was there a support offered to FM Quereshi in the UN this time while he made his pitch?? I dont think so...

There is no question of bullying anyone. Its a pipedream to assume that a redrawing of borders can happen in today's day and age. Now there have been instances where the 2 countries came close to a solution, but if there was right wing resistence in India between 2003-2008, post Musharraf, the GoP is also not a big fan of that approach. So its simply an arguement of convinience to lay the blame at India's door.

I will not get into the Pakistan loosing its territory since its not related to Kashmir, but you assume Indira Gandhi's intentions based on your beliefs and data points and that may be true or may be not..

About the comment on India discussing its internal matters with Pakistan.. You see from a GoI stand point, this is some what different because India believes that a part of its territory is in Pakistan's pocession. So just like Askai Chin is discussed with China, Kashmir is discussed with Pakistan. Recently Indian FM actually asked Pakistan to vacate the land under its illegal occupation.. Does not in any way lends credence to Pakistan's claim over J&K.
 
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Forgive me if I don't trust the opinion of the perpetrator himself.

Who else would publish this?? By your logic, every claim Pakistan makes about its WOT within Pakistani borders is also a suspect.. Isnt it?
 
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