Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[EjazR]

There is no organized targeting or intimidation but at local level people do get angry and sometimes it leads to violence and this is understandable because common people see these collaborators as deriving benefit from there misery

I can't see how they can get benefit from other people's misery. I am actually suprised you would think that. What benefit are people sitting on a bus to LoC getting? Or those going to school getting? Or those in ambulances ferring injured or doctors getting?

Things like social boycott to people who are pro-India, burning houses of people who are ministers or relatives of ministers e.t.c. is wrong no matter how you try to justify it. It is UnIslamic to punish someone for the crimes of others.

Anyways, all I am saying is that before pro-independance and pro-India people use to be intimidated by guns and death threats from Pakistani based militant groups in the 90s. And still is to an extent. After all the shooting of Faz-i-Haq Qureshi who was involved in getting a politcal settlement to bring peace to the valley is not that old.

So the sollution to this problem will not happen overnight. Its not for example a payment hike issue where once a company agreed to the increment, you can stop the strikes. Otherwise the company keeps suffering financial losses.

The strikes of not going to school and not opening business--which is basically what it is revolving around---is affecting the Kashmiri people at the end of the day more than the government.

Infact, a nutty conspiracy theory I saw on facebook was how a Kashmiri believed that this type of protest program with no clearly defined politcal end goal was a trick of the Indian government. He is pro-independance and apparently doesn't trust Geelani. He cited that Geelani was released by a deal with Imar govt. to start this so as to cut down the financial and education legs of the Kashmiris with which they could extricate themselves out. By this protests Indian security is now more entrenched than ever and Kashmiri businesses are in ruins.
Its another thing that his solution was to build up financial resources and then go to the Chinese for arms and then get their support to intervene to create an independant state which I found even more crazy.

 

[mikey]

When everything fails . Then u have to use xtreme step.. And yeah! They are murderous because they also screw f**kin unwanted guests ..

 

[Leonidas]

I respect our armed forces & their sacrifices like any other patriotic Indian but this time there had been a mistake & we need to admit it to correct it. I don't know the ground realities in which they operated but i still feel that there's always a margin to save the loss of lives of your own countrymen.

 

[civfanatic]

I can't see how they can get benefit from other people's misery. I am actually suprised you would think that. What benefit are people sitting on a bus to LoC getting? Or those going to school getting? Or those in ambulances ferring injured or doctors getting?

Things like social boycott to people who are pro-India, burning houses of people who are ministers or relatives of ministers e.t.c. is wrong no matter how you try to justify it. It is UnIslamic to punish someone for the crimes of others.

Anyways, all I am saying is that before pro-independance and pro-India people use to be intimidated by guns and death threats from Pakistani based militant groups in the 90s. And still is to an extent. After all the shooting of Faz-i-Haq Qureshi who was involved in getting a politcal settlement to bring peace to the valley is not that old.

So the sollution to this problem will not happen overnight. Its not for example a payment hike issue where once a company agreed to the increment, you can stop the strikes. Otherwise the company keeps suffering financial losses.

The strikes of not going to school and not opening business--which is basically what it is revolving around---is affecting the Kashmiri people at the end of the day more than the government.

Infact, a nutty conspiracy theory I saw on facebook was how a Kashmiri believed that this type of protest program with no clearly defined politcal end goal was a trick of the Indian government. He is pro-independance and apparently doesn't trust Geelani. He cited that Geelani was released by a deal with Imar govt. to start this so as to cut down the financial and education legs of the Kashmiris with which they could extricate themselves out. By this protests Indian security is now more entrenched than ever and Kashmiri businesses are in ruins.
Its another thing that his solution was to build up financial resources and then go to the Chinese for arms and then get their support to intervene to create an independant state which I found even more crazy.

Govt is using its power to disburse patronage to create a vested minority to delegitimize a struggle built upon sacrifices of a whole population . If you can't see it as case of deriving benefits from misery of others then there is no point in debating .
The guy you mentioned is not nutty he is nuttier than a fruitcake .There are lot of his ilk on face book .

 

[civfanatic]

Day 2: No improvement in school attendance

Day 2: No improvement in school attendance

Srinagar, Sept 28: Despite no improvement in the student attendance, government and several private schools remained open for the second consecutive day Tuesday across the Kashmir Valley.



In Srinagar, while most of the private educational Institutions remained closed in response to the call by Private School Coordination Committee, the Delhi Public School also opted to remain closed due to security concerns.
However, two of the premier private educational institutions, Tyndale-Biscoe and Mallinson and Burn Hall schools saw no improvement over Monday as student attendance in these two schools ramained between 15-20 percent. “There was no improvement as far as student attendance but despite all odds we managed to keep the school open,” said an official of the Burn Hall School.
The scenario at Raj Bagh’s British School was no different as only 10 students showed up for Day Two. “Our school was open but attendance was as good as yesterday's,” said Sadiq Hussain, Principal British School.
The government and semi-government educational institutions saw full staff attendance but minimal students. “Like yesterday, no student came to the college for studies although the whole teaching and non-teaching staff was present,” said a lecturer of Islamia College of Science and Commerce, Hawal.
He said strict curfew across the old city and other areas made it difficult even for the staff to reach respective educational institutions. “Most of the students coming to the college are teenagers and they are apprehensive to attend because of the harsh curfew and presence of troopers on roads. Moreover, the movement of staff is also difficult as they are being frequently questioned while on way to the colleges and schools,” the lecturer said.
Meanwhile, the attendance in the colleges and Higher Secondary, including SP College, Government College for Women, and Girls Higher Secondary Kothi Bagh (schools situated across the City-centre Lal Chowk) dipped when compared to Monday. “No student came to the college today. All those who came here were students appearing in B.ED examinations being held by the University of Kashmir,” said an employee at GCW at M A Road.
Around 10 to 15 students attended in both the Government Higher Secondary Schools Kothi Bagh and Amira Kadal that have a combined roll of more than 500 students.

SOUTH

In south Kashmir’s Islamabad town only two schools re-opened which later were closed after youth allegedly pelted stones in the area. “The government schools at Nazuk Mohalla and Central High School at Hazratbal were closed after clashes broke in the area,” an official in Education Department said
However, private institutions like al-Sarvat remained open but no students attended as no school buses were sent to pick up the students. Both the colleges in the town also remained closed.
The story was same across major towns of South Kashmir which include Pulwama, Kulgam and Shopian.
Moderate attendance of students in both government and private institutions was recorded in rural areas of these districts.
Meanwhile, teachers decried opening of the schools during strike and curfew days alleging they came under heavy stones from protesters. “We had to come on foot to school. All 22 staff members had come today but no student turned up. We are under threat as the protesters have stoned this school during our presence,” Principal In-charge of Government Higher Secondary School, Pigleena Pulwama, told Rising Kashmir over phone.
The school teachers alleged their lives are at risk if they are not provided security and vehicles. “Government claimed to provide us security but we have on our own during curfew,” said a teacher of the school.
However, moderate attendance of students in both government and private institutions was recorded in rural areas of these districts.

NORTH

Meanwhile, despite strict instructions from the government to resume normal schooling, almost all schools and educational institutions remained closed in the north Kashmir towns of Sopore, Baramulla, Kupwara, Bandipore, Pattan and other areas.
However, schools in Tangmarg and its peripheries remained open. The Higher Secondary Kunzer, Changoloora and other prestigious private institutions resumed normal schooling on second day in succession.
However, the prestigious St Joseph School, Public School, Norrul Islam, Neitherfield, Welkin Educational Trust, Muslim Educational Trust and all others in Baramulla and Sopore remained locked.
Likewise, main schools in Kupwara like Alexander School, Public School, Usmaina School and others could not start functioning on second consecutive day.
In Pattan, although teachers were present in the respective schools, less than 10 percent attendance was seen in some schools. Most of them did not witness single student presence.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Hope in the valley:Students attend classes at a private school at Lal Chowk in Srinagar on Monday.

​

Good to see them back in business... Geelani where will he hide the shame??

 

[kingdurgaking]

The concern of government to wards students is politically motivated otherwise they won't have killed more than 100 people mostly students , put thousands of students behind bars under draconian PSA (which allows govt to jail upto two years without trial ).The student community of Kashmir understood machinations of Govt and comprehended that this belated concern for their education is a ploy to disparage and marginalize Geelani sahib . The students in Kashmir realize that most of those who died have been students and infarct students have faced the worst repression by state .
It was crafty move by Govt to use the kids of bureaucrats ho study in elite schools of Kashmir and then use their media to propagate that people are defying Hurriyat . If some school kid got injured I would be sad but I would blame Govt for using a section of students to play its dirty politics

I dont think the government started the protest.. instead the hurriyat group started the protest.... if they want to protest they could have protested in peaceful way like hunger strike, human chain etc etc.. which will bring the world's attention ... what is this childish way of protesting by throwing stones??? see the maturity of the protester here?? did we get independence by throwing stone on Britishers??

 

[Storm Force]

When a neutral person from outside the subcontinent looks at Pakistan's claim he or she goes - "A country which has been a military dictatorship for half its existence if fighting for the democratic rights of a region which has been democratic...you have to be kidding."

Nice comment jackdaws never looked at it that way before

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

When a neutral person from outside the subcontinent looks at Pakistan's claim he or she goes - "A country which has been a military dictatorship for half its existence if fighting for the democratic rights of a region which has been democratic...you have to be kidding."

Nice comment jackdaws never looked at it that way before

A country which has been ''democratic'' doesn't seem to apply its ''democratic'' ideals and stardards to a land/territory that is disputed, and has up to date been a disputed territory

therefore, unfortunately, such a 'theory' has little application here.

 

[Storm Force]

disputed only in pakistans minds and books.

REST OF THE WORLD don,t care and wont be helping you raise the ante.

Pakistan has reached a brick wall or dead end on KASHMIR... now

They are on their own now........... no one is listening esp the indians

 

[RollingStones]

disputed only in pakistans minds and books.

REST OF THE WORLD don,t care and wont be helping you raise the ante.

Pakistan has reached a brick wall or dead end on KASHMIR... now

They are on their own now........... no one is listening esp the indians

Watching the video, I concluded some things:

- the State Government does have power to do some things like revoking the DAA. It is not a puppet government as claimed by some Pakistani folks here.
- by virtue of point one, there exists a federal structure, which is exactly how it should be
- opposition to some of the measures seem to come from kashmiris themselves while support comes from other kashmiris - a good sign of democracy and the majority prevails rule.
- it appears that the armed forces can be overruled at the State Government level itself (that gives it a good amount of power over the situation).

The above being the case, I fail to understand what is preventing the State Government from using its police forces wisely. Drawing on that, why are kashmiris shouting slogans against the federal structure (they seem to imply that somehow everything minus Kashmir is India, which to begin with is a federal structure), when the roots of their problems might lie with their own governance. I am beginning to think that this is why the rest of the Indian Muslims are beginning to wonder how exactly are Muslims of Kashmir different from the rest of India's Muslims who are living within a federal structure. And the funny thing is this assertion by Kashmiris that everything minus Kashmir is India and when they say India oppresses them, does it actually mean a State, lets say, in the South of India or east of India has agreed to oppress Kashmiris through the federal structure. Either the Kashmiris are implying the rest of India is one giant contiguous state will all powers in Delhi and every State acts in the same way to oppress them (for whatever reason), or they dont get what a federation or a federal structure means. If the assumption is that States have powers in India, then the federal government can only do so much. It cant go around oppressing people of selected states. It doesnt seem to have happened in Muslim dominated districts of Other Indian States. Why is this? Is this because other Indian states have protected the Muslim dominated districts in their State from the Federal Government? If this is a yes, then it agains shows States have powers and the Kashmir district should be able to protect itself in this federal structure. If this is a NO, then we would see similar freedom movements in other muslim dominated districts in India, which is not happening. So, back to the original question, how exactly are Muslims in kashmir district different from the Muslims of another Muslim majority district in India? And what powers of theirs has exactly been usurped by the federation (all other other States and peoples of India)? Looking at all these logical questions, it looks like Kashmiris used the term "India" not to connote a federation, but as some power in the corridors of Delhi that directly somehow controls their district. There are a lot of holes here and a lot of thoughtless rebellions. If the rest of the States of India so something which prove that the federal government cannot indeed do much without their majority approval, would the Kashmirs then claim that the State of Assam, let's say, wants to oppress them. I am not clear about what Kashmiris want. What is it that they are not getting in the current federal structure is the question to ask?

 

[Omar1984]

OIC's position on Kashmir is parallel to UN: Ihsanoglu​

UNITED NATIONS – The Organisation of the Islamic Conference stands for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute through negotiations between India and Pakistan on the basis of the United Nations Security Council resolutions, the head of OIC has said.

“Our position on the Kashmir dispute is parallel to the United Nations,” Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, Secretary General of OIC, told correspondents during a press conference at UN Headquarters in New York on Monday afternoon.
Responding to a question, he said the OIC cannot bridge the differences between the parties concerned because India does not recognise the role of the organisation in the dispute. On other subjects, Ihsanoglu called on the international community to counter hatred, intolerance and discrimination against Muslims everywhere, saying that the acts of a few extremist fanatics were being used to associate Islam with terrorism.

He said that during their Annual Coordination Meeting, held last Thursday in New York, OIC Ministers for Foreign Affairs had adopted a declaration on countering Islamophobia. The declaration, among other things, expressed deep concern over the growing violent acts against Muslims in some Western societies and called for global awareness of its dangerous implications for world peace and security.

Negative stereotyping on the basis of religion, faith or race was wrong, he said. Terrorism and anti-Western and anti-American views could not be associated with Muslim countries and Islam anymore than the burning of the Holy Quran could be equated with the United States and Christianity.

“We are against these hate-mongering campaigns,” he said. He lauded the United States government and community and religious leaders for speaking out against and preventing the recently proposed “burn a Quran day” from becoming a reality. “We think that, in this case, American public opinion has shown a great maturity; the American administration has shown great responsibility.”

On the Middle East peace process, he said Israel should suspend all settlement activity in the occupied Palestinian territory. OIC supported direct talks between the Israelis and Palestinians and it continued to support the Arab Peace Initiative aimed at normalising relations between Arab countries and Israel, in exchange for Israel’s full withdrawal from the Occupied Territory and creation and recognition of an independent Palestinian State.

“We’re for a peaceful vision whereby a Palestinian state with its capital as East Jerusalem lives side by side with the State of Israel,” he said. “The problem is nobody knows whether Israel shares this vision or not.”

In the past 20 years, one Israeli administration after another had demanded and won concessions from their Palestinian counterparts, but then refused to make good on promises to them, saying they were not responsible for the agreements of preceding administrations. “I think now it’s high time for everybody to honour their commitments and we are supportive of President [Mahmoud] Abbas’ position on this case,” he said.

He stressed the need for peaceful coexistence among all religious groups in the region and a two-state solution, adding, “We should not really punish the Palestinian people because there was a Holocaust in Germany.”

Asked if OIC would accept a Jewish state of Israel next to a Palestinian state when the Palestinian Authority President had not, he said the matter was for the Palestinian leadership and that OIC would support whatever it decided.

He said ridding the region of WMD was the best way to reduce tension, conflict, bloodshed and competition for armament. Double standards on disarmament must end. “We have to have one yardstick,” he said, stressing that no country should be exempt from weapons inspections and all must abide by the same rules set by the Security Council, IAEA and other international bodies.

Moreover, nuclear disarmament must be integral to the peace process. Asked about the Iranian President’s statement last week calling for a UN investigation into the 11 September 2001 attacks and saying that most people believed the US Government had orchestrated those attacks, he said he disagreed with that assessment.

 

[Omar1984]

Pak slams Indian repression in IHK​

UNITED NATIONS – In a sharply worded speech to the UN General Assembly, Pakistan on Tuesday strongly condemned India’s “repression” in Kashmir and called for resolving the decades-old dispute “in accordance with the UN resolutions.”

“Pakistan reaffirms its complete solidarity with the Kashmiri people, and urges the international community to persuade India to end its repression in Kashmir,” Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi told the 192-member assembly.

Diplomats noted the pointed references to UN resolutions in the Foreign Minister’s speech. In the past few years, Pakistan merely called for a peaceful settlement of the Kashmir issue through negotiations. “The human rights of the Kashmiri people must be respected, and their voices be heard to create an enabling environment for a peaceful solution of the longstanding Jammu and Kashmir dispute,” Qureshi said.

The Foreign Minister has so far avoided meeting his Indian counterpart S.M. Krishna insisting that the talks must be “meaningful and result-oriented.” He told reporters Monday that he has made some proposals to the Indian side through diplomatic channels. “If the response is positive, I would have no hesitation to enter into talks,” he said.

At the outset of his wide-ranging address to the assembly, Qureshi drew attention to the huge human and material damages caused by the unprecedented floods in Pakistan and thanked the UN, the country’s development partners and other friends “for standing up with us” in coping with the difficult challenge. He called for an early conclusion of the climate change negotiations, noting Pakistan’s vulnerability to the impact of global warming.

Dealing with the deteriorating situation in the occupied Kashmir, he voiced “grave concern” over the recent developments marked by the killing by Indian security forces of more than 100 Kashmir seeking their legitimate right to self-determination.

“We strongly condemn this brutality,” he told representatives of member states arranged in front of him in the gold-and-blue hall.

“The Jammu and Kashmir dispute is about the exercise of the right to self-determination by the Kashmiri people through a free, fair and impartial plebiscite under the UN auspices,” he reminded his audience.

“Pakistan reaffirms its complete solidarity with the Kashmiri people, and urges the international community to persuade India to end its repression in Kashmir,” Qureshi said.

Pakistan, he said, was willing to engage India in a comprehensive dialogue to normalize relations between the two countries by finding amicable solutions to all outstanding issues, including the core dispute of Jammu and Kashmir.

“A peaceful resolution of Kashmir dispute in accordance with the UN Resolutions and taking into account the aspirations of the Kashmiri people would create a conducive atmosphere for durable peace and stability in the South Asian region,” he added.

On other subjects of concern to Pakistan, the Foreign Minister reaffirmed his government’s supports to the “just cause” of Palestinian people for the restitution of their inalienable national rights, including their independent Palestinian state, with Al-Quds Al-Sharif as its capital.

“The brazen use of force against the humanitarian Freedom Flotilla on 31st of May 2010, which resulted in the killing of humanitarian workers, was a flagrant violation of international law and norms,” he said of the Israeli military raid. “We look forward to a prompt, impartial and transparent inquiry of the incident by the UN Secretary General’s panel.”

Pakistan’s commitment to the promotion of peace, security and stability; development of friendly relations with other nations; respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity and promotion of economic and social development was unwavering, he said.

“It is this firm conviction that has enabled our democratic government to remain steadfast in its resolve to fight terrorism and extremism, even as we have to deal with the massive destruction caused by catastrophic floods. Our national consensus and resolve to fight extremism and terrorism remains unshaken,” Qureshi said.

“The world recognises and applauds the important successes achieved by our security forces against terrorists,” he said, adding that in the process Pakistan lost more than 20,000 innocent civilians to terrorism and over 2,500 personnel of the security forces involving material losses of nearly US $ 50 billion.

He also underscored the need for addressing the root causes of terrorism, which are often found in poverty, deprivation, injustices and oppression.

“Terrorists recognise no borders; have no religion and no creed. It is, therefore, absurd to malign a whole people or a region or any religion on this account.”

Pakistan strongly rejected the stereotyping of Muslims as terrorists, Qureshi said. “Islam is a religion of peace, compassion and brotherhood. Terrorism is a complete antithesis to Islam’s humanistic outlook and noble values.”

On Afghanistan, the Foreign Minister told the member states that no country has suffered more than Pakistan from the direct and indirect consequences of decades of conflict in Afghanistan. “We, thus, have an abiding stake in peace and stability in Afghanistan. Our commitment to this objective remains firm.

“The time has come to transform Afghanistan from the centre stage of proxy wars, interference and confrontation into a hub for international cooperation and development.”

Restoring the societal equilibrium in Afghanistan is an Afghan responsibility and cannot be imposed externally, he said. “We support all efforts at national reconciliation that are Afghan-owned and Afghan-led.”

On the issue of disarmament and non-proliferation, the Foreign Minister said, “We believe that this should be pursued in an equitable and non-discriminatory manner.

“Asymmetric build-up of conventional weapons and espousal of aggressive doctrines, impact negatively on regional security... We have consistently pursued a policy of conventional and nuclear restraint, along with conflict resolution in South Asia. We reaffirm our proposal for a Strategic Restraint Regime as an important modality to promote the cause of peace, stability and security in our region.”

On the reform of the 15-member UN Security Council, Qureshi said the process must be guided by the principles of equality and democracy, which could conform to a dynamic future, not entrenched in the historical mistakes and individual privileges of the past.

India, Brazil, Germany and Japan and aspiring for permanent seats in an expanded council. Pakistan, a leader in the Uniting for Consensus (UfC) group, opposes any additional permanent members. Instead the group supports more non-permanent members with the possibility of re-election.

“We should look for an outcome that unites rather than divides the membership; strengthens rather than weakens the organization,” the Foreign Minister said. “Our collective search should culminate in a consensus solution that corresponds to the interest of entire membership; particularly small and medium states, the developing countries and Africa.

On the domestic front, Qureshi told the assembly, “With an active and empowered Parliament, a vigilant and well-informed civil society, free media and independent judiciary, the democratic government is putting in place mechanisms to ensure good and accountable governance at all levels in the country.

“The democratic government, inspired by the vision of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto, attaches special attention to the promotion and protection of human rights of all segments of society; particularly women, children and minorities.”

 

[desiman]

ya keep slamming, no one is listening.

 

[Ganguly]

No Krishna-Qureshi talks in New York as war of words breaks out

New York: Expectations of a bilateral meeting between the Foreign Ministers of India and Pakistan on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly have been dashed with a war of words breaking out between the two sides.

Foreign minister S M Krishna on Tuesday slammed his Pakistani counterpart Shah Mahmood Qureshi over his statement on Kashmir at the United Nations.

"I am genuinely disappointed over the unacceptable references made by the Pakistani Foreign Minister in his address at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA). Pakistan is a country that has enormous internal challenges confronting it, such unsolicited remarks cannot divert attention from the internal problems they are having," Krishna said, speaking at a meeting of the Asiatic Society, soon after Qureshi's speech at the UNGA.

Krishna also said Pakistan is trying to "deflect attention" by using "Kashmir as a ploy."

"There is a pattern and the pattern you know is whenever things big are happening in India, they try or in other words distress over takes them and they try to divert people's attention by using Kashmir as a ploy and this is the way they have gone on in the last 60 years."

Speaking at the UNGA, the Pakistan Foreign Minister had raised the issue of Kashmir again.

"The Jammu and Kashmir dispute is about the exercise of the right to self-determination by the Kashmiri people through a free, fair and impartial plebiscite under the UN auspices. Pakistan views the prevailing situation in the Indian Occupied Kashmir with grave concern," he had said. (Watch)

But India has left the window open for possible talks in New Delhi by extending an invitation to Qureshi for the Commonwealth Games in Delhi.

Speaking to NDTV, SM Krishna said this could give a chance for talks.

"Well we will certainly invite all foreign ministers. We will be delighted to have foreign ministers. And Foreign Minister Qureshi is most welcome to witness some of the Games at least, and there again give us a chance to have, to continue the dialogue," he said.

Sources have told NDTV that India believes that Pakistan has to demonstrate its sincerity in bridging the trust deficit and that action on 26/11 will be the biggest confidence building measure.

Late on Monday night, Qureshi had also said that any talks between the two countries need to be "meaningful."

Pakistan's Foreign Minister had also noted that Islamabad had sent "some suggestions" through diplomatic channels to New Delhi about these talks.

Without going to specific details about these "suggestions," Qureshi had said that he was awaiting a response from the Indian side.

When asked if the suggestions given by Pakistan were conditions for talks, Qureshi told NDTV, "No no, I don't believe in conditions. I don't believe in any preconditions, but the issues that are outstanding are known to everyone."

When asked what these issues are, Qureshi replied, "Kashmir is a burning issue. It has been on the negotiating table. It has been on the UN agenda. It has been part of the composite dialogue. And India and Pakistan have agreed to talk about it. Siachen is an issue, it is under discussion."

"What I have been suggesting is that engagement is in the interest of both countries. I am an advocate of good neighbourly and peaceful relations recogonising the fact that there are outstanding issues. We have agreed to resolve them through peaceful means. The way out is engagement, dialogue, consultations," he added.