Kashmir Issue - Choose a Mediator

[Fireurimagination]

Arbitration will be non binding as in case of Iran Nuclear Deal, both parties will have to sign on the dotted line to make it effective. Third party is just a facilitator for smoothing the way of dialogue as both parties are too emotional for their own good.

Kashmir is made out to be way more complicated then it actually is. As things stand it is one of the easier conflicts to solve provided the motivation is there. Nuclear parity actually went a long way in ensuring that neither party holds any unrealistic expectation

Third party can play a facilitator only if both the parties are genuine in effort and we know how much out neighbor believes in the dialogue process. If there is a third party mediation don't you believe emotions still will be high.

 

[Spectre]

Third party can play a facilitator only if both the parties are genuine in effort and we know how much out neighbor believes in the dialogue process. If there is a third party mediation don't you believe emotions still will be high.

Everything depends on the right incentive. Third parties can limit emotional decision making. Atleast that is my hope

 

[Fireurimagination]

Everything depends on the right incentive. Third parties can limit emotional decision making. Atleast that is my hope

What do you mean by emotional decision making? You meant India should go ahead of talks even if there is a major terrorist attack or even if Pakistan wants to engage hurriyat etc because that is all what they are gonna do internalize Kashmir issue

 

[Spectre]

What do you mean by emotional decision making? You meant India should go ahead of talks even if there is a major terrorist attack or even if Pakistan wants to engage hurriyat etc because that is all what they are gonna do internalize Kashmir issue

Did I say that? I don't think so. It is a chicken and egg scenario if you think a little more deeply.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Did I say that? I don't think so. It is a chicken and egg scenario if you think a little more deeply.

No it's not, infact it is very clear, talks or no talks, mediation or no mediation Pakistan will keep the Kashmir pot boiling because it suit them well. They are fighting with India a very low cost and effective war. It keep PA in office, if gives them hope of annexing Kashmir and much more. You really think they want a solution to the Kashmir tangle nah they want the Kashmir (the valley) and nothing less.

 

[Post Colonnial]

Why do some of you even think there is any issue that needs 'solving' or arbitrating? Last time somebody tried to arbitrate borders a million plus died.

What we have is a neighbor to the west who have gotten so backward in all spheres of development due to idiotic economic and educational policies that their leaders simply need an issue to fool their people with and stay in power. India and Hindu is an easy one to pick on, so Kashmir it is.

If they send in terrorists just catch and return them or better still, make them clean Indian prisons. If they lob grenades just lob twice that number back. For all its bravado, Pakistani military is only capable of attacking their own civilians, for everything else they have to rely on mujahideen anyway. Even that they couldn't succeed in and lost half their country in 1971. Their GHQ and corps commanders have no communication strategy, they all jockey for power and constantly pull each other down based on communal and racial affiliations. The old British era scotch club unity and the recognition of high command ethics do not exist anymore; their colonels and majors are recent issue hot heads with a full third of them believing in divine sanction and associated superiority. The only common and constant factor amongst the senior officer corp of Pakistani military today and has been ever since Musharraf was neutralized by CJ Ifthekar, is CYA. Each one of them have taken to maintain detailed logs, diaries, voice mails and the like of who said what in which decision and discussion ...so that when they are brought up before a court they can claim innocence ..or at least buy off a bargain.

And we have not even started scratching the surface - the effect of backlash that provincial militia who have all been branded terrorists and bombed using broad strokes for effect, have taken tactical losses but strategic retreat. We are talking about tribesmen who consider themselves creatures of honor rather than beasts of burden. When the Zarb ops 'complete' (it will when the military is able to come up with some sort of criteria to declare victory...they have been trying to nail that thing down for a while now) fun begins all over again. Both the Sherief's must be praying that they retire before then.

 

[chhota bheem]

Did I say that? I don't think so. It is a chicken and egg scenario if you think a little more deeply.

Oh even if you select a mediator ,do you know who are we to speak to In pakistan is it the army ,politicians or any one else ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Darwanism would have ensured Hindus wiped out during Islamic rule or atleast become a minority.

Being a Non Muslim and Non Hindu I am not sure how am i supposed to answer the second part.

Being a non Muslim would be enough. A Christian would have some leeway. But not much.

Hindus HAVE been wiped out in most parts of India. Only The Gangetic plains and the Deccan remains Hindu. The following places are gone -

1. The Kabulshahi
2. Gandharas (probable birthplace of early Vedic scriptures)
3. Entire Indus basin (From Mirpur, Lahore to Karachi, Sindh)
4. most of Bengal(birthplace of Vaishnavism)
5. Kashmir (the birthplace of Shaivism)
6. Kamboja,
etc

In spite of all these, how can you say Hindus have not been eliminated? Even this India is Hindu majority ONLY because of a Muslim majority Pakistan. Merge India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan and see the net results.

Plus, unlike Iran, Egypt or Arabia, India is gifted with forests, high mountains, and other difficult terrain that allowed (and allows) powerful local kingdoms or rebels that can run against the tide.

 

[Spectre]

Why do some of you even think there is any issue that needs 'solving' or arbitrating? Last time somebody tried to arbitrate borders a million plus died.

What we have is a neighbor to the west who have gotten so backward in all spheres of development due to idiotic economic and educational policies that their leaders simply need an issue to fool their people with and stay in power. India and Hindu is an easy one to pick on, so Kashmir it is.

If they send in terrorists just catch and return them or better still, make them clean Indian prisons. If they lob grenades just lob twice that number back. For all its bravado, Pakistani military is only capable of attacking their own civilians, for everything else they have to rely on mujahideen anyway. Even that they couldn't succeed in and lost half their country in 1971.

So much arrogance is not good. Pakistan has a battle hardened army and airforce in addition to nukes.

Never ever underestimate the adversary. Best and most successful countries don't fight their enemies, they turn their enemies to friends.

 

[Fireurimagination]

So much arrogance is not good. Pakistan has a battle hardened army and airforce in addition to nukes.

Never ever underestimate the adversary. Best and most successful countries don't fight their enemies, they turn their enemies to friends.

You can't shake hands with somebody who has a clenched fist - Indira gandhi (I believe)

 

[Spectre]

Oh even if you select a mediator ,do you know who are we to speak to In pakistan is it the army ,politicians or any one else ?

First of all incentive and motivation should be there on both sides, subsequently things will fall into place. As for which party to talk to, I believe their defense establishment provides majority of input with regards to India so it is logical which party we should engage as other countries like Russia and US are doing

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Best and most successful countries don't fight their enemies, they turn their enemies to friends.

No. They just make their enemies bankrupt or control their economies. Enemies never become friends. Not without killing a lot of each other.

 

[Spectre]

Being a non Muslim would be enough. A Christian would have some leeway. But not much.

Hindus HAVE been wiped out in most parts of India. Only The Gangetic plains and the Deccan remains Hindu. The following places are gone -

1. The Kabulshahi
2. Gandharas (probable birthplace of early Vedic scriptures)
3. Entire Indus basin (From Mirpur, Lahore to Karachi, Sindh)
4. most of Bengal(birthplace of Vaishnavism)
5. Kashmir (the birthplace of Shaivism)
6. Kamboja,
etc

In spite of all these, how can you say Hindus have not been eliminated? Even this India is Hindu majority ONLY because of a Muslim majority Pakistan. Merge India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan and see the net results.

Plus, unlike Iran, Egypt or Arabia, India is gifted with forests, high mountains, and other difficult terrain that allowed (and allows) powerful local kingdoms or rebels that can run against the tide.

Won't call 1 Billion or nearby Hindus as wiped out. Logically they are 14% or so of Human Population.

Persians have been nearly wiped out, Jews have been nearly wiped out, Indians (Americans) have been nearly wiped out, Mayans have been wiped out.

 

[Fireurimagination]

First of all incentive and motivation should be there on both sides, subsequently things will fall into place. As for which party to talk to, I believe their defense establishment provides majority on input with regards to India so it is logical which party we should engage as other countries like Russia and US doing

What incentive will you offer them? What incentive is there for you? The only incentive for them will happen when we make their proxy war too costly and too hot for them to handle

 

[Spectre]

No. They just make their enemies bankrupt or control their economies. Enemies never become friends. Not without killing a lot of each other.

Japan, Vietnam, US

Whole of Europe sans Russia