Copying Hamas Model in Kashmir

[TheSolution]

They assumed active participation by the Kashmiri public. Did they do anything to ensure that before the start of hostilities?

Yes, they infiltrated men disguised as civillians but when it came down to the fighting mainland Kashmiris unfortunately didn't rally up with arms in significant numbers (I guess they were expecting a civil war kind of scenario to overwhelm Indians and make them see no reason to fight)

Tbh Kashmir is obviously a very emotionally charged topic, I'm from Azad Kashmir and from what I've heard the really strong violent type of resistance was concentrated largely near villages closer to LoC, as you went closer to mainland it wasn't as aggressive and with enough bribery etc you could get key leaders to support you which the Indian Army did.

The resistance also relied heavily on ideological and arms support from Pakistan, after that it fractured up a lot, and naturally Kashmiris are more pro-independence I would say, not for India or Pakistan

 

[-=virus=-]

but they kept sitting on their butts.

Mirs kept sitting on their butts, Lones kept sitting on their butts.... even Butts kept sitting on their butts.

 

[Goritoes]

Kashmir is lost cause anyway, keep what we have and leave what Indians have... focus on building strong relationship, Kashmir is big enough to bring tourism revenue for both Pakistan and India.

 

[Kaniska]

Yes, they infiltrated men disguised as civillians but when it came down to the fighting mainland Kashmiris unfortunately didn't rally up with arms in significant numbers (I guess they were expecting a civil war kind of scenario to overwhelm Indians and make them see no reason to fight)

Tbh Kashmir is obviously a very emotionally charged topic, I'm from Azad Kashmir and from what I've heard the really strong violent type of resistance was concentrated largely near villages closer to LoC, as you went closer to mainland it wasn't as aggressive and with enough bribery etc you could get key leaders to support you which the Indian Army did.

The resistance also relied heavily on ideological and arms support from Pakistan, after that it fractured up a lot, and naturally Kashmiris are more pro-independence I would say, not for India or Pakistan

1. Pakistan needs to be provided with a 100% guarantee that India will not impact the waters flowing through India through direct or indirect means.
2. Conversion of lOC to IB

The above two steps would bring peace and harmony in South Asia. I hope we will see this thing happening in our generation.

Kashmir is lost cause anyway, keep what we have and leave what Indians have... focus on building strong relationship, Kashmir is big enough to bring tourism revenue for both Pakistan and India.

I will put it this way. First of all, if Pakistan accepts LOC as IB, it is not like Pakistan is losing any territory. So technically, you are not losing anything.

 

[TheSolution]

1. Pakistan needs to be provided with a 100% guarantee that India will not impact the waters flowing through India through direct or indirect means.
2. Conversion of lOC to IB

The above two steps would bring peace and harmony in South Asia. I hope we will see this thing happening in our generation.



I will put it this way. First of all, if Pakistan accepts LOC as IB, it is not like Pakistan is losing any territory. So technically, you are not losing anything.

Might happen one day but not anytime soon

I think for it to be reality it would have to be closer to Musharraf's points even if not exactly the same

 

[Kaniska]

Might happen one day but not anytime soon

I think for it to be reality it would have to be closer to Musharraf's points even if not exactly the same

Musharaf plan was good. But India has moved on and would not be flexible to alter its territory at this point in time. At best, India can provide water security to Pakistan to ensure in addition to converting LOC to IB.

One of the major factors that makes us think is the confidence that we gained after the removal of 370. Everyone in India was thinking and expecting, that hell would break out in Kashmir Valley after 370 was gone. But nothing as such happened.

 

[VkdIndian]

Signalian isn't wrong actually, when he calls out Kashmiris for sitting on asses.

He is wrong in expecting an action by Kashmiris, based on presumptions. ISI and PA should have done a ground check to see the possibility of an instant uprising in their support. A high level of coordination is also required to make an impact. Which was never done.

It is lame and highly unprofessional of PA to never accept their mistakes. They always keep blaming circumstances and other factors rather than owning up failures. 1965, 1971, 1999 are all examples of that. That is the biggest drawback of PA from being a highly professional to what they are - a mediocre force.

 

[StraightEdge]

Maybe think of reducing inflation, increasing production, jobs and reducing debt. No wonder the economic situation is so severe when your primary focus is on pointless, unproductive and delusional tasks. Even if you somehow manage to kill 1500 innocents, you will still have to pay the same debt, suffer same inflation of 25-30% and say good bye to more FDI/funding.
Some people are born with IQ which make me doubt whether they are still neanderthal.

 

[-=virus=-]

1. Pakistan needs to be provided with a 100% guarantee that India will not impact the waters flowing through India through direct or indirect means.
2. Conversion of lOC to IB

The above two steps would bring peace and harmony in South Asia. I hope we will see this thing happening in our generation.

1. IWT hai to sahi.. if India breaches it, many say it'll be as good as declaring war. There were these recently..

After 62 years, India moves to amend its water treaty with Pak

Sources said Pakistan's “intransigence” forced India to issue the notice of modification and update the treaty to “incorporate the lessons learned over the last 62 years”.

indianexpress.com

India, Pakistan hold meet on Indus Waters Treaty in Vienna

India and Pakistan recently attended a meeting in Vienna to discuss the long-standing dispute over the Indus Waters Treaty. India participated in the meeting with a high-powered delegation, led by the Secretary of the Department of Water Resources.

www.indiatoday.in

2. No political will, too many hardliners on both sides, sadly. That is also the only way forward.

 

[TheSolution]

He is wrong in expecting an action by Kashmiris, based on presumptions. ISI and PA should have done a ground check to see the possibility of an instant uprising in their support. A high level of coordination is also required to make an impact. Which was never done.

It is lame and highly unprofessional of PA to never accept their mistakes. They always keep blaming circumstances and other factors rather than owning up failures. 1965, 1971, 1999 are all examples of that. That is the biggest drawback of PA from being a highly professional to what they are - a mediocre force.

Fair critique tbh

 

[Olympus81]

Kashmir was already lost in 1947 with India going to UN and both parties announcing a ceasefire.

That meant the status quo would remain perpetually.

The Indians despite their human rights violation will keep hold of their side of J&K. The Indian army will station a large number of forces within the valley and despite their below average performance they will be able to keep Kashmir. There is no way that part of Kashmir can be free.

The Indians will gradually fill Kashmir with their mainlanders and few decades from now it will look like another Indian city.

Suffice to say Kashmiris would lose their majority. They should have thought better when siding with Abdullahs who were an interim solution to keep the Kashmiris quiet until the Article to strip Kashmir of its autonomy fell.

Pakistan’s side of Kashmiris can remain with Pakistan or request independence. They can have their referendum.

For the Pakistanis who fell for their Generals narrative that they’ll free Kashmiris from Indian rule, I am sorry but they were selling you the moon and you fell for it.

 

[PakFactor]

Might happen one day but not anytime soon

I think for it to be reality it would have to be closer to Musharraf's points even if not exactly the same

Musharaf plan was good. But India has moved on and would not be flexible to alter its territory at this point in time. At best, India can provide water security to Pakistan to ensure in addition to converting LOC to IB.

One of the major factors that makes us think is the confidence that we gained after the removal of 370. Everyone in India was thinking and expecting, that hell would break out in Kashmir Valley after 370 was gone. But nothing as such happened.

Can one of you guys refresh us on the Mushraff plan?

 

[-=virus=-]

Can one of you guys refresh us on the Mushraff plan?

According to several accounts, Musharraf proposed a “four-point solution” for the Kashmir dispute. It included the demilitarisation or phased withdrawal of troops and no change in the borders of Kashmir. The solution proposed that the people of Jammu & Kashmir will be allowed to move freely across the Line of Control (LoC) and also pushed for self-governance without independence and a joint supervision mechanism in Jammu and Kashmir involving India, Pakistan, and Kashmir.

Musharraf at Agra Summit: What was his ‘four-point formula’ on Kashmir issue?

Though there was some forward movement on the first day of the summit, the talks soon hit a roadblock. India was not happy with the Pakistan President’s commitment to stopping cross-border terrorism.

indianexpress.com

 

[Signalian]

They assumed active participation by the Kashmiri public. Did they do anything to ensure that before the start of hostilities?

Should have signed a written contract ?

The failure of Ops Gibraltar was due to stupid planning and presumptions of your Army. Such operations can’t be launched thinking that spontaneous uprising will take place without any prior coordination.

Really? A think tank saying this? You are trying to lay failure of your Kargil misadventure on Kashmiris? It was complete failure of your army again.They didn’t even inform your Airforce and the Navy about it. And you were expecting Kashimirs going around with their lives to suddenly wake up and launch an attack?

It has been an utter failure of the Paksiatn Army to understand the situation in Kashmir and has made multiple blunders in the past. And like all its failures they have laid the blame on others. They have never accepted any failure ever and have always palmed it off to others including Bangladesh.

Eqauting Kashmir with Palestine is incorrect in many ways. Kashmiris have equal rights like all other Indians, unlike the situation in Palestine. That itself makes the situation vastly different. They have full freedom to pursue any activity as they wish including joining the highest jobs and the best of professions. Palestinians have been displaced from their homes and moved to ghettos which is the biggest difference between the two conflicts. The list of differences is very long.

The comments of many members equating it to Palestine situation shows lack of understanding and nuances of the same.

I am very happy because an adversary with poor understanding of a situation is the best adversary to have.

What a ridiculous exaggeration

 

[-=virus=-]

plan plan hota hai

implementation ek alag game hai

plans ki baat krein to @jamahir bhikari also had a plan, je dekho:

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan Written by: Jamahir Category cloud: Opinion, analysis India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social...

www.defence.pk