Karachi will be part of India one day,We believe in 'Akhand Bharat' : BJP

[suyog chavan]

that the Arya were not present during the Harappan Civilisation, and that they arrived later. In other words, the Harappan Civilisation was pre-Arya, and so was the language they spoke.""

You too have acknowledged Harrapans were already present in Indian subcontinent before the aryans arrived
Here is your statement-
"that the Arya were not present during the Harappan Civilisation, and that they arrived later. In other words, the Harappan Civilisation was pre-Arya, and so was the language they spoke.""
Now stand by it,

As I've said to your kind before, do not lay claim to the Harappan civilisation, the IVC or any associated peoples. They were ancient Pakistani peoples, not Hindustani or gangetic. Do not confuse this already heavily derailed thread by falsely equating modern India with the IVC, or modern brahminism with original Hindu and animist groups. What Pakistan had in the IVC is nothing to do with you and your secular republic .of deranged and raped brahminists. Aryans messed up your religion and you chose to keep their corruptions. That's your business. The IVC has nothing to do with you, apart from the fact that it fathered your nation together with Aryan migrants. Without the IVC and the Aryans, you would still be riding elephants.

You and other Commies are fool If you think that,
This decade all your commie lies about our sanatan dharm are going down the drain,
Populace of the sacred land of Bharat will know the truth.

David Reich: Harappan ancestry is the single largest source population for almost all people in India today https://frontline.thehindu.com/arts-and-culture/heritage/harappan-ancestryis-the-single-largest-source-population-for-almost-all-people-in-india-today/article32514104.ece?fbclid=IwAR1wIx4H1g3ptfGUfkBEgkfGDXZXkS6Pz2RvqGBmeSu4ZK7ZNwz9l41cAKM… We are all children of our Harappan ancestors from Sarasvati-Sindhu valley civilization. We have inherited their genes as well.

What an idiot.

Yes, IVC killed and ate cows. Again, they weren't like you brahminist filth.

They could have buried it psycho, why you retards always imagine eating ,

What an idiot.

Yes, IVC killed and ate cows. Again, they weren't like you brahminist filth.


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HomeExplained
Fact Check: What did the Harappan people really eat?
The menu at 'Historical Gastronomica' suggests that the food of the Indus Valley people would be familiar to many Indians today, even as it challenges the idea of an essentially “Indian” culinary culture.
Written By Pooja Pillai , Edited By Explained Desk | New Delhi |
Updated: February 21, 2020 1:14:33 pm

A promotional image for Historical Gastronomica.
The National Museum in New Delhi has decided to keep meat out of the ‘Historical Gastronomica’ event that it is hosting on its premises until February 25, allegedly after “a couple of MPs” reacted to the menu posted online by the Ministry of Culture (The Indian Express, February 20).
The last-minute diktat has resulted in dishes such as fish in turmeric stew, quail/fowl/country chicken roasted in saal leaf, offal’s pot, bati with dry fish, meat fat soup, lamb liver with chickpea, and dried fish and mahua oil chutney being knocked off the table.
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Food of Harappans
The event, presented by the Museum along with One Station Million Stories (OSMS), claims to treat visitors to “The Indus dining experience” through a “specially crafted menu that strictly includes ingredients that were identified by archaeologists & researchers from sites of the Indus-Saraswati Civilisation”.
However, archaeological evidence from Indus Valley sites (c. 3300 BC to 1300 BC) in present-day India and Pakistan suggests that a purely vegetarian meal will not provide a complete picture of what the Harappan people ate.
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“To judge from the quantity of bones left behind, animal foods were consumed in abundance: beef, buffalo, mutton, turtles, tortoises, gharials, and river and sea fish,” food historian K T Achaya recorded in his magisterial history of Indian food, Indian Food: A Historical Companion (Oxford University Press, 1994)."

BEEF was on the menu of your supposed ancestors.

Lolz.

Jane McIntosh
The Harappans grew lentils and other pulses (peas, chickpeas, green gram, black gram). Their main staples were wheat and barley, which were presumably made into bread and perhaps also cooked with water as a gruel or porridge. In some places, particularly Gujarat, they also cultivated some native millets; possibly broomcorn millet, which may have been introduced from southern Central Asia; and by 2000 BC, if not before, African millets. They fed local wild rice to their animals and probably began to cultivate it, though rice does not become an important crop until Post-Harappan times. The Harappans must have eaten a range of fruit, vegetables and spices : these included a variety of brassica, brown mustard greens, coriander, dates, jujube, walnuts, grapes, figs; many others, such as mango, okra, caper, sugarcane, garlic, turmeric, ginger, cumin and cinnamon, were locally available and probably grown or gathered by the Harappans, but the evidence is lacking. Sesame was grown for oil, and linseed oil may also have been used.

Meat came mainly from cattle i.e. ox, but the Harappans also kept chickens, buffaloes and some sheep and goats, and hunted a wide range of wildfowl and wild animals such as deer, antelopes and wild boar. They also ate fish and shellfish from the rivers, lakes and the sea; as well as being eaten fresh, many fish were dried or salted – many bones from marine fish such as jack and catfish were found at Harappa, far inland.

Harappan houses had a kitchen opening from the courtyard, with a hearth or brick-built fireplace. Pottery vessels in a range of sizes were used for cooking; in wealthy households metal vessels were also used.

Few certain agricultural tools have been found. Flint blades were probably used for harvesting. A ploughed field at Early Harappan Kalibangan shows that the plough was in use by the early 3rd millennium BC; its criss-cross furrows allowed two crops to be raised in the same field, a practice that has continued into modern times.

Richard Meadow
We have a good deal of evidence for Harappan subsistence. Staple crops varying by region and time period included wheat, barley, millets, rice, and pulses. For details, see the following:

Fuller, D. (2002) Fifty Years of Archaeobotanical Studies in India: Laying a Solid Foundation in S. Settar and R. Korisettar (eds.) Indian Archaeology in Retrospect, Volume III. Archaeology and Interactive Disciplines, Publications of the Indian Council for Historical Research. New Dehli: Manohar: Pp. 247-364.

Fuller, D. (2003) African crops in prehistoric South Asia: a critical review in K. Neumann, A. Butler and S. Kahlheber (eds.) Food, Fuel and Fields. Progress in Africa Archaeobotany, Africa Praehistorica 15. Colonge: Heinrich-Barth-Institut: Pp. 239-271

Fuller, D. (2003) Indus and Non-Indus Agricultural Traditions: Local Developments and Crop Adoptions on the Indian Peninsula, in S. Weber and W. Belcher (eds.) Indus Ethnobiology: New Perspectives from the Field. Lexington Books, Lanham, Maryland: Chapter 10.

Fuller, D. Q (2005). "Ceramics, seeds and culinary change in prehistoric India." Antiquity 79 (306): 761-777.

Fuller, D. Q and E. L. Harvey (2006). "The Archaeobotany of Indian Pulses: identification, processing and evidence for cultivation." Environmental Archaeology 11(2): 219-246.

Fuller, D. Q (2006). "Agricultural Origins and Frontiers in South Asia: A Working Synthesis." Journal of World Prehistory 20: 1-86

For animals, the domesticates humped cattle, sheep, goat, and perhaps water buffalo were of principle importance for both primary (after death) and secondary (before death) products. See:

Meadow, R.H. and A.K. Patel (2003) Prehistoric pastoralism in northwestern South Asia from the Neolithic through the Harappan Period. In S. Weber and W. Belcher, eds., Indus Ethnobiology: New Perspectives from the Field. Lanham, MD: Lexington Books (Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group), pp. 65-93.

Both wild animal and wild plant resources continued to be important including fish, molluscs, hunted animals, and various wild plants for fodder, food, and medicines. Linen, cotton, and wool were important resources for textile manufacture, and silk was also used., coming from wild silk moths. For the last, see:

Good, Irene, J.M Kenoyer and R.H. Meadow (2009) "New evidence for early silk in the Indus Civilization." Archaeometry 51: 457-466.

BEEF was on the menu of your supposed ancestors.

It Indicates that they ate beef prior, mostly of male bull (ox) and buffalo after sacrificing to gods , when they were guised as hunter gatherer ,
later on, As they evolved they stopped eating beef, though it is not clear in the studies which cattle beef they ate.

Most serious historians agree that the meat was consumed in the prehistory and early history of the Indian subcontinent. Palaeolithic tools used to hunt animals have been found in abundance, especially in Gujarat.

Achaya writes: "Tools of the Middle Stone Age, 50,000 to 40,000 years ago, mostly consisted of pointed oval-shaped stones of various kinds. These were used as axes, spears, scrapers and knives, all of which suggest again a mainly meat diet."

Tools such as cleavers, which were oblong in shape with a long chisel edge, too have been found all over the country, and connote an essentially meat diet, Achaya says.

Around 5000 BC, more sophisticated chisels, axes, adzes, choppers, scrapers, knives and hammers start to appear, as well as the saddle quern and mortars and pestles for the grinding of grains and spices. These indicate the important shift from food gathering to food cultivation.

At this point, Achaya notes, fish became an important part of the diet, since fishing required more sophisticated technology than had been available earlier. Net sinkers and numerous fish hooks from this time have been found at riverine and coastal neolithic sites.

The Vedic people too, consumed meat. Achaya notes that the Vedas refer to some 250 species of animals, 50 of which were "deemed fit for sacrifice, and by inference for eating". Marketplaces had stalls for vendors of different kinds of animal meats, including gogataka (cattle), arabika (sheep), shukharika (swine), nagarika (deer), shakuntika (fowl) and gidhabuddaka (alligator and tortoise), he writes.

However, the Arthasastra, believed to have been compiled between the 2nd century BC and 3rd century AD, lays down rules to manage slaughterhouses and ensure the purity of meat. Vegetarianism appears to have gradually become the dietary choice .

BEEF was on the menu of your supposed ancestors.

Which beef ??
Cow, than provide proof ,
Avoid commie sources , If you can
It Indicates that they ate beef prior, mostly of male bull (ox) and buffalo after sacrificing to gods , when they were guised as hunter gatherer , though it is not clear in the studies which cattle beef they ate.
later on, they evolved as farmers,gradually they stopped eating beef,

In the Hindu religion, the cow has acquired a sacred status. It used to be sacrificed like other animals and offered to the gods and its meat was eaten. The cow was gradually incorporated into a religious ritual and itself became sacred and an object of veneration from the 4th century BCE.

Though this Does not prove,That they did not follow Vedic dharm, is it??

 

[masterchief_mirza]

You too have acknowledged Harrapans were already present in Indian subcontinent before the aryans arrived
Here is your statement-
"that the Arya were not present during the Harappan Civilisation, and that they arrived later. In other words, the Harappan Civilisation was pre-Arya, and so was the language they spoke.""
Now stand by it,

You and other Commies are fool If you think that,
This decade all your commie lies about our sanatan dharm are going down the drain,
Populace of the sacred land of Bharat will know the truth.

David Reich: Harappan ancestry is the single largest source population for almost all people in India today https://frontline.thehindu.com/arts-and-culture/heritage/harappan-ancestryis-the-single-largest-source-population-for-almost-all-people-in-india-today/article32514104.ece?fbclid=IwAR1wIx4H1g3ptfGUfkBEgkfGDXZXkS6Pz2RvqGBmeSu4ZK7ZNwz9l41cAKM… We are all children of our Harappan ancestors from Sarasvati-Sindhu valley civilization. We have inherited their genes as well.

They could have buried it psycho, why you retards always imagine eating ,


Jane McIntosh
The Harappans grew lentils and other pulses (peas, chickpeas, green gram, black gram). Their main staples were wheat and barley, which were presumably made into bread and perhaps also cooked with water as a gruel or porridge. In some places, particularly Gujarat, they also cultivated some native millets; possibly broomcorn millet, which may have been introduced from southern Central Asia; and by 2000 BC, if not before, African millets. They fed local wild rice to their animals and probably began to cultivate it, though rice does not become an important crop until Post-Harappan times. The Harappans must have eaten a range of fruit, vegetables and spices : these included a variety of brassica, brown mustard greens, coriander, dates, jujube, walnuts, grapes, figs; many others, such as mango, okra, caper, sugarcane, garlic, turmeric, ginger, cumin and cinnamon, were locally available and probably grown or gathered by the Harappans, but the evidence is lacking. Sesame was grown for oil, and linseed oil may also have been used.

Meat came mainly from cattle i.e. ox, but the Harappans also kept chickens, buffaloes and some sheep and goats, and hunted a wide range of wildfowl and wild animals such as deer, antelopes and wild boar. They also ate fish and shellfish from the rivers, lakes and the sea; as well as being eaten fresh, many fish were dried or salted – many bones from marine fish such as jack and catfish were found at Harappa, far inland.

Harappan houses had a kitchen opening from the courtyard, with a hearth or brick-built fireplace. Pottery vessels in a range of sizes were used for cooking; in wealthy households metal vessels were also used.

Few certain agricultural tools have been found. Flint blades were probably used for harvesting. A ploughed field at Early Harappan Kalibangan shows that the plough was in use by the early 3rd millennium BC; its criss-cross furrows allowed two crops to be raised in the same field, a practice that has continued into modern times.

Richard Meadow
We have a good deal of evidence for Harappan subsistence. Staple crops varying by region and time period included wheat, barley, millets, rice, and pulses. For details, see the following:

Fuller, D. (2002) Fifty Years of Archaeobotanical Studies in India: Laying a Solid Foundation in S. Settar and R. Korisettar (eds.) Indian Archaeology in Retrospect, Volume III. Archaeology and Interactive Disciplines, Publications of the Indian Council for Historical Research. New Dehli: Manohar: Pp. 247-364.

Fuller, D. (2003) African crops in prehistoric South Asia: a critical review in K. Neumann, A. Butler and S. Kahlheber (eds.) Food, Fuel and Fields. Progress in Africa Archaeobotany, Africa Praehistorica 15. Colonge: Heinrich-Barth-Institut: Pp. 239-271

Fuller, D. (2003) Indus and Non-Indus Agricultural Traditions: Local Developments and Crop Adoptions on the Indian Peninsula, in S. Weber and W. Belcher (eds.) Indus Ethnobiology: New Perspectives from the Field. Lexington Books, Lanham, Maryland: Chapter 10.

Fuller, D. Q (2005). "Ceramics, seeds and culinary change in prehistoric India." Antiquity 79 (306): 761-777.

Fuller, D. Q and E. L. Harvey (2006). "The Archaeobotany of Indian Pulses: identification, processing and evidence for cultivation." Environmental Archaeology 11(2): 219-246.

Fuller, D. Q (2006). "Agricultural Origins and Frontiers in South Asia: A Working Synthesis." Journal of World Prehistory 20: 1-86

For animals, the domesticates humped cattle, sheep, goat, and perhaps water buffalo were of principle importance for both primary (after death) and secondary (before death) products. See:

Meadow, R.H. and A.K. Patel (2003) Prehistoric pastoralism in northwestern South Asia from the Neolithic through the Harappan Period. In S. Weber and W. Belcher, eds., Indus Ethnobiology: New Perspectives from the Field. Lanham, MD: Lexington Books (Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group), pp. 65-93.

Both wild animal and wild plant resources continued to be important including fish, molluscs, hunted animals, and various wild plants for fodder, food, and medicines. Linen, cotton, and wool were important resources for textile manufacture, and silk was also used., coming from wild silk moths. For the last, see:

Good, Irene, J.M Kenoyer and R.H. Meadow (2009) "New evidence for early silk in the Indus Civilization." Archaeometry 51: 457-466.

It Indicates that they ate beef prior, mostly of male bull (ox) and buffalo after sacrificing to gods , when they were guised as hunter gatherer ,
later on, As they evolved they stopped eating beef, though it is not clear in the studies which cattle beef they ate.

Most serious historians agree that the meat was consumed in the prehistory and early history of the Indian subcontinent. Palaeolithic tools used to hunt animals have been found in abundance, especially in Gujarat.

Achaya writes: "Tools of the Middle Stone Age, 50,000 to 40,000 years ago, mostly consisted of pointed oval-shaped stones of various kinds. These were used as axes, spears, scrapers and knives, all of which suggest again a mainly meat diet."

Tools such as cleavers, which were oblong in shape with a long chisel edge, too have been found all over the country, and connote an essentially meat diet, Achaya says.

Around 5000 BC, more sophisticated chisels, axes, adzes, choppers, scrapers, knives and hammers start to appear, as well as the saddle quern and mortars and pestles for the grinding of grains and spices. These indicate the important shift from food gathering to food cultivation.

At this point, Achaya notes, fish became an important part of the diet, since fishing required more sophisticated technology than had been available earlier. Net sinkers and numerous fish hooks from this time have been found at riverine and coastal neolithic sites.

The Vedic people too, consumed meat. Achaya notes that the Vedas refer to some 250 species of animals, 50 of which were "deemed fit for sacrifice, and by inference for eating". Marketplaces had stalls for vendors of different kinds of animal meats, including gogataka (cattle), arabika (sheep), shukharika (swine), nagarika (deer), shakuntika (fowl) and gidhabuddaka (alligator and tortoise), he writes.

However, the Arthasastra, believed to have been compiled between the 2nd century BC and 3rd century AD, lays down rules to manage slaughterhouses and ensure the purity of meat. Vegetarianism appears to have gradually become the dietary choice .

Which beef ??
Cow, than provide proof ,
Avoid commie sources , If you can
It Indicates that they ate beef prior, mostly of male bull (ox) and buffalo after sacrificing to gods , when they were guised as hunter gatherer , though it is not clear in the studies which cattle beef they ate.
later on, they evolved as farmers,gradually they stopped eating beef,

In the Hindu religion, the cow has acquired a sacred status. It used to be sacrificed like other animals and offered to the gods and its meat was eaten. The cow was gradually incorporated into a religious ritual and itself became sacred and an object of veneration from the 4th century BCE.

Though this Does not prove,That they did not follow Vedic dharm, is it??

You bloody idiot.

They ate beef. The harappans are beef. That is all that is said in my sources and your sources. If you can't read, tough luck. No amount of mental gymnastics from you can make the IVC Hindus the same as arya Hindus. Now beat it.

And as for your first statement, of course I fkin acknowledge harappans were here before Aryans....that's precisely what I'm saying.

Look again at your nonsensical statement:
"You too have acknowledged Harrapans were already present in Indian subcontinent before the aryans arrived
Here is your statement-
"that the Arya were not present during the Harappan Civilisation, and that they arrived later. In other words, the Harappan Civilisation was pre-Arya, and so was the language they spoke.""
Now stand by it,  "

Is your brain made of fkin stewed lentils or what/??

You're agreeing with me. Thanks. Do you actually even realize that you're in complete agreement with me? You dumb sanghee fk.

The harappans were here as the original civilised nation of the subcontinent. The harappans are Pakistan's ancient ancestry.

You filth lying to our east rode elephants and swung from trees (just like your little avatar funnily enough) while we built cities. Now the harappans themselves came from iranic lineages. Their polytheistic faith had some similarities with what you call modern Hinduism, but it wasn't recognised as brahminist Hinduism, which incorporated post-Aryan corruptions. Our IVC ancestors are beef. Our ancestors had no caste concept. Our ancestors were a decent bunch of polytheists.

When the Aryans arrived and sacked the only known civilisation in the subcontinent (the IVC) they moved on to the gangetic plains to our east and enslaved your far more primitive ancestors. Don't you wonder why your nation is relatively darker than ours? Isn't it bleeding obvious that your ancestors were the original native elephant riders of the gangetic plains? Do check carefully the genetic studies you are hilariously quoting at me.

" genetic signature of the Yamnaya people shows up strongly in the male lineage, but hardly at all in the female lineage, the study found.

One possibility is that a group of horse-riding warriors swept across India, murdered the men and raped or took local women as wives, but not all explanations are that martial, Richards said. For instance, it's possible that whole family units from the Yamnaya migrated to India, but that the men were either able to acquire (or started out with) higher status than local males and thus sired more children with local women, Richards said.

"It's very easy for Y-chromosome composition to change very quickly," Richards told Live Science. "Just because individual men can have a lot more children than women can."

Do you understand what this means??

The Aryan males sired many children with native gangetic females....Do I need to spell this out for you? Much like throughout Hindustan's history, lower caste, darker skinned females were regarded as baby machines for higher caste paler skinned male migrants from central Asiatic steppe migrants. I told you once - it wasn't necessarily an "invasion" but it was a sex slave acquisition for sure! Those Aryans sired many children with native women...and the Brahmins of this current age still think they're entitled in this way. The marathas were no different. It's an unbroken tradition right from the first minute the Aryan migrants set foot in the gangetic plains and invented the Brahmin caste. We see it reenacted daily in modern Hindustan. Is it really a shock that these pale skinned overlords behaved in this way also back when it all started??

So, to summarize, the IVC's original belief system was corrupted by power hungry and sex driven Aryans from central Asia, whose skin was clearly paler than anyone here in the subcontinent (because they were from somewhere north to us obviously!), and when this new original archetypal Brahmin class took control over you tree swingers, they obviously had to vilify the original religion of the only civilised nation in the subcontinent (the harappans) hence we became mlecchas. The Vedic texts codified this vilification against the harappans and regarded our original native faith as impure, while the bastardised brahminist aberration became the canonical faith of the migrant Aryans and their invented caste structure with its enslaved classes of gangetics. They brought proto-sanskrit with them and taught you this indo-European non-native tongue with its countless Dravidian loan words (because duhhh proto-Sanskrit can't have words for animals that didn't exist in the steppe land where these fkers came from!).

Having completed this mutation of ancient religious beliefs of the IVC with the newly designed caste structure and Vedic lexicon and scripts, the Aryan split became formal.


"If you delve into the world of Sanskrit vocabulary to see if it is a Deva Bhasha, you can find a large number of words from the Dravidian language, to your surprise. In contrast, Dravidian languages like Tamil are depicted to be that of Mleccha – the evil and dirty – according to puranas.

To prove the point , we can look up some Sanskrit words and trace their origin, etymology. There are three underlying principles to establish that a given word belongs to a particular language, and it is not something that language borrowed from any other language or a different language family.

1. Derivation of meaning – If you can trace the meaning of the word squarely in a given language itself, you can ascertain that it is a natural word of the language. For instance the English word ‘people’ was originated from Latin, the mother language from which English took its origin.

People – Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French poeple, from Latin populus ‘populace’ (Note the point that English is a member of Indo-Aryan language family)

2. Wide use of the word with connected or similar meaning – if you can find the given word taking different forms in that language you can determine that it is a native word to the language. The word people has several associated words both in meaning and sound. People, population, public, popular, republic – you can see that these words are connected in terms of both meaning and resemblance.

3. Varying shades of meaning – if a given word is used for different context with differing shades of meaning it is a clear indication that this word is not a loan word, but a native one. For instance, the word home in English has so many differing contextual usages. This is my home (residence); He is at home in more than three languages (familiar with); He tried to drive home a point (make it clear).

4. Noun only – if the given word is used with only one meaning in that given language and remains mostly a noun, then chances are it is a loan word. Example: The digital avatar. Avatar is a foreign word; it is only used as a noun. Other examples: guru, yoga, kangaroo, igloo and karate. All these words found their way into English from foreign languages, and fairly recently. Even though English is more used to verbification than any other language, a tendency of using nouns as verbs, (I phoned him, she googled down some PDFs) these words are used only as nouns.


Evidence from etymology

Now let us take some words in Sanskrit and try to understand its etymology (etymology is a chronological account of the birth and development of a particular word or element of a word, often delineating its spread from one language to another and its evolving changes in form and meaning).

Neer – the meaning of the word is water. Neeraja (The one who is born of water). Neer has no related word in Sanskirt, it is just an odd expression there. But in Dravidian languages you can find a sensible derivational explanation. Neer in Tamil stands for level, flat, and fill; it has a different meaning too, water. The Dravidian people might have been impressed with the surface of a lake or lagoon which was so perfectly level. So they assigned two meanings to the word neer; water and level. Nirappu in Malayalam and Tamil stands for the meaning flat surface. Nira is to fill, in Tamil; neeru is water in Telugu and Kannada.

Nataraj – (the walking, or dancing god, Lord Shiva) – clearly it is originated from a Dravidian verb, nada – to walk. In Dravidian languages it is used both as a noun and a verb. Nada is to walk, nadanam is dance (n), Nadu is to place or plant. In Sanskrit it is only a noun, no verb form available. Naatak (drama) is another word in Sanskrit that is related to the Dravidian word nadadam, with the same meaning.

Paada (learn, lesson) – In Sanskrit the meaning is to learn (v), or lesson (n). But in Dravidian languages like Tamil, it has multiple meanings and usages – To learn and to sing. Ancient humans had no written text books, they committed everything to memory. To make things easier for remembering, the olden day texts were in poetic form, so that they can ‘sing’ the text, a practise quite good for remembering and reciting. Paadu is one more meaning the word attribues, that is, difficult or strenuous. If you want to sing a song, it is rather a more difficult task than just saying the song-lines. You have to maintain all the rhythms it calls for. So paada is clearly a Dravidian world.

Kala – In Sanskrit it means art (a noun only), in Dravidian it is both a noun and a verb. Kala (to mix), kalam (pot), kalai (moon sign, beauty), kalvi (knowledge) . All these usages are linked to some sort of craft or art. It has a remarkable meaning too in Dravidian languages, kal is stone. You know our ancestors made statues and figurines craving out stones. That was one of the early forms of art."

Indo-European languages emerged roughly 6,500 years ago on Russian steppes, new research suggests

Linguists have long agreed that languages from English to Greek to Hindi, known as 'Indo-European languages', are the modern descendants of a language family which first emerged from a common ancestor spoken thousands of years ago. Now, a new study gives us more information on when and where it...

phys.org

The genetics harmonises perfectly here. IVC genetics contribute an overwhelming amount of the south Asian genome across Pakistan and Hindustan, however Aryan contributions are more limited and targeted to the gangetic plains/north west India and interestingly, show a caste-bias (I.e. higher castes have more Aryan DNA). If this isn't conclusive then I don't know what is. Aryans came and enslaved. They altered your religion, your lexicon, your language, your destiny. They were foreigners who chose and enforced a new path for you.

, "for paternally inherited Y-chromosome variation each caste is more similar to Europeans than to Asians. Moreover, the affinity to Europeans is proportionate to caste rank, the upper castes being most similar to Europeans, particularly East Europeans. These findings are consistent with greater West Eurasian male admixture with castes of higher rank. "

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

The origins and affinities of the ∼1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Collectively, all five datasets show a trend toward upper castes being more similar to Europeans, whereas lower castes are more similar to Asians. We conclude that Indian castes are most likely to be of proto-Asian origin with West Eurasian admixture resulting in rank-related and sex-specific differences in the genetic affinities of castes to Asians and Europeans."

 

[suyog chavan]

You bloody idiot.

They ate beef. The harappans are beef. That is all that is said in my sources and your sources. If you can't read, tough luck. No amount of mental gymnastics from you can make the IVC Hindus the same as arya Hindus. Now beat it.

And as for your first statement, of course I fkin acknowledge harappans were here before Aryans....that's precisely what I'm saying.

Look again at your nonsensical statement:
"You too have acknowledged Harrapans were already present in Indian subcontinent before the aryans arrived
Here is your statement-
"that the Arya were not present during the Harappan Civilisation, and that they arrived later. In other words, the Harappan Civilisation was pre-Arya, and so was the language they spoke.""
Now stand by it,  "

Is your brain made of fkin stewed lentils or what/??

You're agreeing with me. Thanks. Do you actually even realize that you're in complete agreement with me? You dumb sanghee fk.

Doofus, stop acting like a smartchild,
I agree and have written in previous threads, they ate beef in the earlier stages of settlement as they were hunter-gatherers and practiced animal sacrifices to the Vedic gods of Indra, Surya, Agni, Ushas, Vayu, Varuna, Mitra, Aditi, Yama, Soma, Sarasvati, Prithvi, and Rudra, with evolvement they begin farming,
Is when they stopped eating beef ,
Whereas No study has found whether they ate cow, buffalo or bull beef, So hearing beef and waxing exhilaration is very Pakistani act, So chill
And yeah Harrapans were here before aryans arrived and followed vedic dharm,

The harappans were here as the original civilised nation of the subcontinent. The harappans are Pakistan's ancient ancestry.

Yeah your ancestors followed Sanatan dharm, But were cowards to convert under oppression

You filth lying to our east rode elephants and swung from trees (just like your little avatar funnily enough) while we built cities. Now the harappans themselves came from iranic lineages. Their polytheistic faith had some similarities with what you call modern Hinduism, but it wasn't recognised as brahminist Hinduism, which incorporated post-Aryan corruptions. Our IVC ancestors are beef. Our ancestors had no caste concept. Our ancestors were a decent bunch of polytheists.

what??? lOL
Have to agree that was insane to claim that , now hold your stand,
Can you name one God of your polyheistic faith ,??
Even Sanatan dharm doesn't have caste concept, link the connections ,then

The Aryan males sired many children with native gangetic females....Do I need to spell this out for you? Much like throughout Hindustan's history, lower caste, darker skinned females were regarded as baby machines for higher caste paler skinned male migrants from central Asiatic steppe migrants. I told you once - it wasn't necessarily an "invasion" but it was a sex slave acquisition for sure! Those Aryans sired many children with native women...and the Brahmins of this current age still think they're entitled in this way. The marathas were no different. It's an unbroken tradition right from the first minute the Aryan migrants set foot in the gangetic plains and invented the Brahmin caste. We see it reenacted daily in modern Hindustan. Is it really a shock that these pale skinned overlords behaved in this way also back when it all started??

Doesn't make sense of a penny,
Our gods are dark skinned, not pale skinned ,Why??

Is it really a shock that these pale skinned overlords behaved in this way also back when it all started??

Statement shows your shallow Knowledge about Indian demographics and a small brain
Not all brahmins are pale skinned, Not all (so called) Dalits are dark skinned,
Prove me wrong,

Having completed this mutation of ancient religious beliefs of the IVC with the newly designed caste structure and Vedic lexicon and scripts, the Aryan split became formal.


"If you delve into the world of Sanskrit vocabulary to see if it is a Deva Bhasha, you can find a large number of words from the Dravidian language, to your surprise. In contrast, Dravidian languages like Tamil are depicted to be that of Mleccha – the evil and dirty – according to puranas.

To prove the point , we can look up some Sanskrit words and trace their origin, etymology. There are three underlying principles to establish that a given word belongs to a particular language, and it is not something that language borrowed from any other language or a different language family.

1. Derivation of meaning – If you can trace the meaning of the word squarely in a given language itself, you can ascertain that it is a natural word of the language. For instance the English word ‘people’ was originated from Latin, the mother language from which English took its origin.

People – Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French poeple, from Latin populus ‘populace’ (Note the point that English is a member of Indo-Aryan language family)

2. Wide use of the word with connected or similar meaning – if you can find the given word taking different forms in that language you can determine that it is a native word to the language. The word people has several associated words both in meaning and sound. People, population, public, popular, republic – you can see that these words are connected in terms of both meaning and resemblance.

3. Varying shades of meaning – if a given word is used for different context with differing shades of meaning it is a clear indication that this word is not a loan word, but a native one. For instance, the word home in English has so many differing contextual usages. This is my home (residence); He is at home in more than three languages (familiar with); He tried to drive home a point (make it clear).

4. Noun only – if the given word is used with only one meaning in that given language and remains mostly a noun, then chances are it is a loan word. Example: The digital avatar. Avatar is a foreign word; it is only used as a noun. Other examples: guru, yoga, kangaroo, igloo and karate. All these words found their way into English from foreign languages, and fairly recently. Even though English is more used to verbification than any other language, a tendency of using nouns as verbs, (I phoned him, she googled down some PDFs) these words are used only as nouns.


Evidence from etymology

Now let us take some words in Sanskrit and try to understand its etymology (etymology is a chronological account of the birth and development of a particular word or element of a word, often delineating its spread from one language to another and its evolving changes in form and meaning).

Neer – the meaning of the word is water. Neeraja (The one who is born of water). Neer has no related word in Sanskirt, it is just an odd expression there. But in Dravidian languages you can find a sensible derivational explanation. Neer in Tamil stands for level, flat, and fill; it has a different meaning too, water. The Dravidian people might have been impressed with the surface of a lake or lagoon which was so perfectly level. So they assigned two meanings to the word neer; water and level. Nirappu in Malayalam and Tamil stands for the meaning flat surface. Nira is to fill, in Tamil; neeru is water in Telugu and Kannada.

Nataraj – (the walking, or dancing god, Lord Shiva) – clearly it is originated from a Dravidian verb, nada – to walk. In Dravidian languages it is used both as a noun and a verb. Nada is to walk, nadanam is dance (n), Nadu is to place or plant. In Sanskrit it is only a noun, no verb form available. Naatak (drama) is another word in Sanskrit that is related to the Dravidian word nadadam, with the same meaning.

Paada (learn, lesson) – In Sanskrit the meaning is to learn (v), or lesson (n). But in Dravidian languages like Tamil, it has multiple meanings and usages – To learn and to sing. Ancient humans had no written text books, they committed everything to memory. To make things easier for remembering, the olden day texts were in poetic form, so that they can ‘sing’ the text, a practise quite good for remembering and reciting. Paadu is one more meaning the word attribues, that is, difficult or strenuous. If you want to sing a song, it is rather a more difficult task than just saying the song-lines. You have to maintain all the rhythms it calls for. So paada is clearly a Dravidian world.

Kala – In Sanskrit it means art (a noun only), in Dravidian it is both a noun and a verb. Kala (to mix), kalam (pot), kalai (moon sign, beauty), kalvi (knowledge) . All these usages are linked to some sort of craft or art. It has a remarkable meaning too in Dravidian languages, kal is stone. You know our ancestors made statues and figurines craving out stones. That was one of the early forms of art."

Keep contradicting yourself engot,
Tamil the worlds oldest language and Sanskrit the world's second oldest language are similar, which debunks the Aryan invasion theory at the core belief of itself,
First and foremost Sanskrit was not the language of aryans, whereas the indigenous population spoke both Tamil and Sanskrit languages, which were interrelated to each other,
Tamizh has not tried to negate learning of the language by the commoner, whereas Sanskrit was formed for this purpose alone. So the base of the two languages are the same and so one up manship is unnecessary.

The genetics harmonises perfectly here. IVC genetics contribute an overwhelming amount of the south Asian genome across Pakistan and Hindustan, however Aryan contributions are more limited and targeted to the gangetic plains/north west India and interestingly, show a caste-bias (I.e. higher castes have more Aryan DNA). If this isn't conclusive then I don't know what is. Aryans came and enslaved. They altered your religion, your lexicon, your language, your destiny. They were foreigners who chose and enforced a new path for you.

Aryans did come to ancient Bharat but not pre dating Harrapans , whereas Harrapans were already practicing Vedic dharm ,
And No Aryans manipulated, enslaved or altered our religion , rather they were mixed into the indigenous populace adhering to the indigenous practices and rituals ,
People got segregated in India. not due to some invasion by outsiders crap , but due to geographical conditions , Same goes on with the languages of Tamil and Sanskrit,

You bloody idiot.

They ate beef. The harappans are beef. That is all that is said in my sources and your sources. If you can't read, tough luck. No amount of mental gymnastics from you can make the IVC Hindus the same as arya Hindus. Now beat it.

And as for your first statement, of course I fkin acknowledge harappans were here before Aryans....that's precisely what I'm saying.

Look again at your nonsensical statement:
"You too have acknowledged Harrapans were already present in Indian subcontinent before the aryans arrived
Here is your statement-
"that the Arya were not present during the Harappan Civilisation, and that they arrived later. In other words, the Harappan Civilisation was pre-Arya, and so was the language they spoke.""
Now stand by it,  "

Is your brain made of fkin stewed lentils or what/??

You're agreeing with me. Thanks. Do you actually even realize that you're in complete agreement with me? You dumb sanghee fk.

The harappans were here as the original civilised nation of the subcontinent. The harappans are Pakistan's ancient ancestry.

You filth lying to our east rode elephants and swung from trees (just like your little avatar funnily enough) while we built cities. Now the harappans themselves came from iranic lineages. Their polytheistic faith had some similarities with what you call modern Hinduism, but it wasn't recognised as brahminist Hinduism, which incorporated post-Aryan corruptions. Our IVC ancestors are beef. Our ancestors had no caste concept. Our ancestors were a decent bunch of polytheists.

When the Aryans arrived and sacked the only known civilisation in the subcontinent (the IVC) they moved on to the gangetic plains to our east and enslaved your far more primitive ancestors. Don't you wonder why your nation is relatively darker than ours? Isn't it bleeding obvious that your ancestors were the original native elephant riders of the gangetic plains? Do check carefully the genetic studies you are hilariously quoting at me.

" genetic signature of the Yamnaya people shows up strongly in the male lineage, but hardly at all in the female lineage, the study found.

One possibility is that a group of horse-riding warriors swept across India, murdered the men and raped or took local women as wives, but not all explanations are that martial, Richards said. For instance, it's possible that whole family units from the Yamnaya migrated to India, but that the men were either able to acquire (or started out with) higher status than local males and thus sired more children with local women, Richards said.

"It's very easy for Y-chromosome composition to change very quickly," Richards told Live Science. "Just because individual men can have a lot more children than women can."

Do you understand what this means??

The Aryan males sired many children with native gangetic females....Do I need to spell this out for you? Much like throughout Hindustan's history, lower caste, darker skinned females were regarded as baby machines for higher caste paler skinned male migrants from central Asiatic steppe migrants. I told you once - it wasn't necessarily an "invasion" but it was a sex slave acquisition for sure! Those Aryans sired many children with native women...and the Brahmins of this current age still think they're entitled in this way. The marathas were no different. It's an unbroken tradition right from the first minute the Aryan migrants set foot in the gangetic plains and invented the Brahmin caste. We see it reenacted daily in modern Hindustan. Is it really a shock that these pale skinned overlords behaved in this way also back when it all started??

So, to summarize, the IVC's original belief system was corrupted by power hungry and sex driven Aryans from central Asia, whose skin was clearly paler than anyone here in the subcontinent (because they were from somewhere north to us obviously!), and when this new original archetypal Brahmin class took control over you tree swingers, they obviously had to vilify the original religion of the only civilised nation in the subcontinent (the harappans) hence we became mlecchas. The Vedic texts codified this vilification against the harappans and regarded our original native faith as impure, while the bastardised brahminist aberration became the canonical faith of the migrant Aryans and their invented caste structure with its enslaved classes of gangetics. They brought proto-sanskrit with them and taught you this indo-European non-native tongue with its countless Dravidian loan words (because duhhh proto-Sanskrit can't have words for animals that didn't exist in the steppe land where these fkers came from!).

Having completed this mutation of ancient religious beliefs of the IVC with the newly designed caste structure and Vedic lexicon and scripts, the Aryan split became formal.


"If you delve into the world of Sanskrit vocabulary to see if it is a Deva Bhasha, you can find a large number of words from the Dravidian language, to your surprise. In contrast, Dravidian languages like Tamil are depicted to be that of Mleccha – the evil and dirty – according to puranas.

To prove the point , we can look up some Sanskrit words and trace their origin, etymology. There are three underlying principles to establish that a given word belongs to a particular language, and it is not something that language borrowed from any other language or a different language family.

1. Derivation of meaning – If you can trace the meaning of the word squarely in a given language itself, you can ascertain that it is a natural word of the language. For instance the English word ‘people’ was originated from Latin, the mother language from which English took its origin.

People – Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French poeple, from Latin populus ‘populace’ (Note the point that English is a member of Indo-Aryan language family)

2. Wide use of the word with connected or similar meaning – if you can find the given word taking different forms in that language you can determine that it is a native word to the language. The word people has several associated words both in meaning and sound. People, population, public, popular, republic – you can see that these words are connected in terms of both meaning and resemblance.

3. Varying shades of meaning – if a given word is used for different context with differing shades of meaning it is a clear indication that this word is not a loan word, but a native one. For instance, the word home in English has so many differing contextual usages. This is my home (residence); He is at home in more than three languages (familiar with); He tried to drive home a point (make it clear).

4. Noun only – if the given word is used with only one meaning in that given language and remains mostly a noun, then chances are it is a loan word. Example: The digital avatar. Avatar is a foreign word; it is only used as a noun. Other examples: guru, yoga, kangaroo, igloo and karate. All these words found their way into English from foreign languages, and fairly recently. Even though English is more used to verbification than any other language, a tendency of using nouns as verbs, (I phoned him, she googled down some PDFs) these words are used only as nouns.


Evidence from etymology

Now let us take some words in Sanskrit and try to understand its etymology (etymology is a chronological account of the birth and development of a particular word or element of a word, often delineating its spread from one language to another and its evolving changes in form and meaning).

Neer – the meaning of the word is water. Neeraja (The one who is born of water). Neer has no related word in Sanskirt, it is just an odd expression there. But in Dravidian languages you can find a sensible derivational explanation. Neer in Tamil stands for level, flat, and fill; it has a different meaning too, water. The Dravidian people might have been impressed with the surface of a lake or lagoon which was so perfectly level. So they assigned two meanings to the word neer; water and level. Nirappu in Malayalam and Tamil stands for the meaning flat surface. Nira is to fill, in Tamil; neeru is water in Telugu and Kannada.

Nataraj – (the walking, or dancing god, Lord Shiva) – clearly it is originated from a Dravidian verb, nada – to walk. In Dravidian languages it is used both as a noun and a verb. Nada is to walk, nadanam is dance (n), Nadu is to place or plant. In Sanskrit it is only a noun, no verb form available. Naatak (drama) is another word in Sanskrit that is related to the Dravidian word nadadam, with the same meaning.

Paada (learn, lesson) – In Sanskrit the meaning is to learn (v), or lesson (n). But in Dravidian languages like Tamil, it has multiple meanings and usages – To learn and to sing. Ancient humans had no written text books, they committed everything to memory. To make things easier for remembering, the olden day texts were in poetic form, so that they can ‘sing’ the text, a practise quite good for remembering and reciting. Paadu is one more meaning the word attribues, that is, difficult or strenuous. If you want to sing a song, it is rather a more difficult task than just saying the song-lines. You have to maintain all the rhythms it calls for. So paada is clearly a Dravidian world.

Kala – In Sanskrit it means art (a noun only), in Dravidian it is both a noun and a verb. Kala (to mix), kalam (pot), kalai (moon sign, beauty), kalvi (knowledge) . All these usages are linked to some sort of craft or art. It has a remarkable meaning too in Dravidian languages, kal is stone. You know our ancestors made statues and figurines craving out stones. That was one of the early forms of art."

Indo-European languages emerged roughly 6,500 years ago on Russian steppes, new research suggests

Linguists have long agreed that languages from English to Greek to Hindi, known as 'Indo-European languages', are the modern descendants of a language family which first emerged from a common ancestor spoken thousands of years ago. Now, a new study gives us more information on when and where it...

phys.org

The genetics harmonises perfectly here. IVC genetics contribute an overwhelming amount of the south Asian genome across Pakistan and Hindustan, however Aryan contributions are more limited and targeted to the gangetic plains/north west India and interestingly, show a caste-bias (I.e. higher castes have more Aryan DNA). If this isn't conclusive then I don't know what is. Aryans came and enslaved. They altered your religion, your lexicon, your language, your destiny. They were foreigners who chose and enforced a new path for you.

, "for paternally inherited Y-chromosome variation each caste is more similar to Europeans than to Asians. Moreover, the affinity to Europeans is proportionate to caste rank, the upper castes being most similar to Europeans, particularly East Europeans. These findings are consistent with greater West Eurasian male admixture with castes of higher rank. "

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

The origins and affinities of the ∼1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Collectively, all five datasets show a trend toward upper castes being more similar to Europeans, whereas lower castes are more similar to Asians. We conclude that Indian castes are most likely to be of proto-Asian origin with West Eurasian admixture resulting in rank-related and sex-specific differences in the genetic affinities of castes to Asians and Europeans."

The Aryan Invasion Theory further states that Central Asian nomadic tribes came to India in horse drawn chariots. This view has been challenged by many historians on the basis that, Chariots are not a vehicle of nomads, Chariots are used on the flat land,

 

[hamilcar of carthage]

"shoot for the moon and if you miss, you will land among the stars"
I always had a problem with this quote. If you take it literally, it makes no sense.

"If it's indians, it's evil"
& "if it's smelly, it's Indian."

I know but it sounds cool and it delivers the message.

 

[Sayfullah]

Last time they tried capturing Lahore but ended up almost surrendering Amritsar


let them come for Karachi this time we gonna take Taj Mahal from them

 

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

"India, Pak, Bangladesh Should Be Merged": Maharashtra Minister To BJP



Mumbai:
Maharashtra Minister Nawab Malik on Sunday said that his party - the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) - will welcome the BJP's move "if it creates one country by merging India, Pakistan and Bangladesh".

"The way Devendra ji has said that time will come Karachi will be the part of India. We have been saying that India, Pakistan and Bangladesh should be merged. If the Berlin wall can be demolished then why not India, Pakistan and Bangladesh can come together? If BJP wishes to merge these three countries and make a single country, we will welcome it definitely," Mr Malik told ANI, when asked comment on the former Chief Minister and BJP leader Devendra Fadnavis's remark on Karachi.

Mr Malik said that the NCP wants to contest the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) elections along with Shiv Sena and Congress which are part of the Maha Vikas Aghadi (MVA) government in Maharashtra.

"It is still 15 months left for the BMC election. Every party has the right to work for their party, and every party is doing so. We are also strengthening our party. We would want that those who are running the government all three parties should contest polls together," he said.


he Cabinet Minister also ruled out any possibility of lockdown in Maharashtra saying that there is no need for it.

"Our Aarogya secretariat has sent an advisory to every district that we have to be prepared in the view of the second wave of COVID-19. We have been successful in containing coronavirus. Cases in some states are increasing and they have imposed restrictions. This is not the condition in Maharashtra. There is no such type of situation in Maharashtra that we need to impose lockdown," he said.

"India, Pak, Bangladesh Should Be Merged": Maharashtra Minister To BJP

Maharashtra Minister Nawab Malik on Sunday said that his party - the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) - will welcome the BJP's move "if it creates one country by merging India, Pakistan and Bangladesh".

www.ndtv.com

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Salaam


I'm actually curious if the BJP lot consider Bangladesh as part of Akhand Bharat or not? Has anyone of any consequence ever said anything to that effect?

@jamahir @SuvarnaTeja

No one in India is interested in uniting with either with Pakistan or Bangladesh or Afghanistan.

No one takes the statement of Fadnavis seriously. There is some high level trolling being done by all the parties.

Indian Muslim League and Sanghis are the biggest supporters of the partition.

The only party which truly desired a united India were the Muslims of India specifically the followers of Jamaat-e-Islami as they knew Muslims would be a majority in united India.

Hindus were never and are not interested in united India as majority Muslims rule will mean that Hindus will be given the three options like it happened with all non-Muslims all across the world through out the history.

• Convert to Islam
• Pay Jizya Tax to avoid conversion
• Death

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Tamil the worlds oldest language and Sanskrit the world's second oldest language are similar,

Bull. Simple bull.
"Tamil (/ˈtæmɪl/; தமிழ் Tamiḻ [t̪amiɻ], pronunciation (help·info)) is a Dravidian language natively spoken by the Tamil people of India and Sri Lanka. "

"Sanskrit (/ˈsænskrɪt/, attributively संस्कृत-, saṃskṛta-,[11][12] nominally संस्कृतम्, saṃskṛtam[13]) is a classical language of South Asia belonging to the Indo-Aryan branch of the Indo-European languages.[14][15][16] It arose in South Asia after its predecessor languages had diffused there from the northwest in the late Bronze Age.[17][18]"

If you enjoy being the slave child of Aryan males dominating native Dravidian females, that's your business, but don't tarnish all subcontinentals this way.

Every picture of every God you've shown me has Caucasian features and is BLUE or PALE. Where are the Gods loOking like the majority dark skinned people of your country? You've got a picture of a deity with a dozen heads and not a single one looks dark enough to represent over 50% of your population. The simplest explanation for this is a bunch of pale skinned slave masters created brahminism to portray themselves as a higher status, closer to God, hence the native darkies need to show obedience to this priestly class. It's hardly rocket science. I would have done exactly the same if I was an Aryan!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not racist. On the contrary, I'm accusing YOUR people of racism for worshipping deities whose colour is that of the slave drivers from the Eurasian steppe.

You said: "The Aryan Invasion Theory further states that Central Asian nomadic tribes came to India in horse drawn chariots"

I've said ten times I accept the Aryans didn't necessarily invade. They probably migrated peacefully and enslaved / dalitised your ancestors peacefully. How could elephant riders fight back with primitive weapons? They had no option but to accept enslavement and carve blue statues in honour of their new gods. Never mind chariots, the Aryans could have rode in on tricycles and taken over the gangetic plains.

Redirect Notice

"However, now it has been conclusively proven that the Indus Valley Civilisation was not Vedic, and came before the Rig Veda. A sample recovered in 2015 from a Haryana village named Rakhigarhi which is from a male human who lived 4500 years ago shows that he had no part of the same gene as the Aryans (which is known as R1A, and is common to people in northern and eastern Europe, Central Asia and South Asia). It has taken so long to determine this because DNA is not preserved well in our hot and wet climate.

The Rakhigarhi finding shows that the Harappan culture and the Indus Valley Civilisation were not the source of the Sanskrit language. The Vedic people were pastoralists, moving around with their cattle (the word Aryavarta means the ‘turning of the Arya’, in a reference to a large herd being moved around). Whereas the Indus Valley Civilisation, including Lothal and Babar Kot in Gujarat, Rakhigarhi and the places today in Pakistan, was urban and built around planned cities, which also had drainage and sanitation."

"The caste system as we today know and practice is an invention and tradition of the Vedic pastoralists, not the Indus Valley."
"The gods of our first ancestors who lived along the Sindhu river were different from the gods of those who came and mixed with them. Even the Vedic pastoralists, whom we call Aryans, worshipped different gods than the ones popular in India today. There are not many Indians who pray to Indra or Varuna. Today we worship newer gods from the Puranas (written after the Vedic period), like Ram and Krishna and Ganesh and Lakshmi."

I'll say it AGAIN. DESIST FROM ATTEMPTING TO USURP Pakistan'S heritage. The IVC was PRE-VEDIC AND PRE-ARYAN.

ARYANS CORRUPTED THEIR BELIEFS. HARAPPANS BURIED THEIR DEAD. HARAPPANS WORSHIPPED AN EARTH MOTHER AND NATURE AS WELL AS PROTO-HINDU DEITIES. THIS WAS A REFINED, PEACEFUL ANIMIST FAITH, WITHOUT A CASTE HIERARCHY WHATSOEVER.

THEY ALSO ARE BEEF, WHICH I AM GLAD YOU ACCEPT. YOU YOURSELF ACCEPT SOME SORT OF EVOLUTION OR CHANGE OCCURRED WHICH RESULTED IN NEWER HINDUS HAVING DIFFERENT BELIEFS, INCLUDING ABSTENTION FROM BEEF, TOTAL replacement OF burial WITH CREMATION.
Use some common sense and understand that there is a simple political reason that Aryans mutated the original IVC beliefs to their benefit. They wanted power, which is natural. So, take the existing belief system and corrupt it to position yourselves as atop a new hierarchy within this religion. Who wouldn't do this?! It's not even that clever.
"The problem between associating IVC and Vedic Civilisation boils down to 2 problems. Vedas swear by the horse (with 27 ribs and all) while Harappans only know of wild asses (26 ribs) and no more. There are no horse bones, drawings or even toys of horse borne carts – there are bullock carts though (my edit: note Sinauli chariot, without spoked wheels is unlikely to be horse drawn but more likely bulkock drawn and for peaceful purposes).

The second question is that Vedic literature discusses an entirely nomadic life and there are no fixed places of stay or worship. Harappans were highly urbanised for almost a thousand years. If IVC practiced any religion, then there is very little evidence. So the connection is not obvious.

Having said this, there are some well-made, well preserved seals in IVC which appear to represent one of the great gods of Hinduism – Shiva. Shiva is a very interesting god – he is the lord of animals (Pashupati), is an intellectual and short on temper. In many ways he is different in temperament than other gods of Vedic period. The others (Vishnu, Indra and Bramha) also have some connectivity with the Avetha of Iran from where the Vedic people presumably came. Hence it can be argued, with some merit, that Shiva was a IVC god assimilated in the Hindu Pantheon when the Vedic people came to India towards the podt urban declining phase of IVC when the cities had been abandoned. That is the closest you have, to a synthesis of data but the subtleties can be argued ad infinitum. "

 

[suyog chavan]

Every picture of every God you've shown me has Caucasian features and is BLUE or PALE. Where are the Gods loOking like the majority dark skinned people of your country? You've got a picture of a deity with a dozen heads and not a single one looks dark enough to represent over 50% of your population. The simplest explanation for this is a bunch of pale skinned slave masters created brahminism to portray themselves as a higher status, closer to God, hence the native darkies need to show obedience to this priestly class. It's hardly rocket science. I would have done exactly the same if I was an Aryan!

LOL,
Again contradictions,
Even the so called dravidians have caucasian skulls,

"The Dravidian people of ancient India are Caucasoids (Caucasian) and not Negroids. Causcasoids can be white, brown and even black. The work of Dr Zacharias Thundy of Northern Michigan University."

Here are some pictures of so called Dravidians with albino disease, ( Albinism is a congenital disorder characterized in humans by the complete or partial absence of pigment in the skin, hair and eyes.)

Hence the term Dravidians, were coined to describe indigenous population living in the south or coastal Area, Which more of Correlates to geographical position and location of the populace of ancient bharat, Not some Aryan-Dravidian fist fight competition,

You said: "The Aryan Invasion Theory further states that Central Asian nomadic tribes came to India in horse drawn chariots"

Even the Harrapans or ancient Bhartiya people migrated to Eurasia, Not just that the Aryans came to ancient India,
Have a look at the Roma people living in Europe as nomads even today,

The Roma originate from Punjab and Rajasthan areas of India. Their ancestors emigrated from India approximately 1000 years ago and travelled through Asia to Europe and later to the Americas. For centuries they maintained a nomadic lifestyle but were forced to settle under the communist regimes of Eastern Europe.
While in India, the Romani people followed the Hindu religion ,

Population of Roma community around the Europe
*projections for Serbia also include up to 97.000 Roma IDPs in Serbia[248]

Roma estimate percentage of population in European countries[247]
Country		Percent
Bulgaria		10.33%
North Macedonia		9.59%
Slovakia		9.17%
Romania		8.32%
Serbia*		8.18%
Hungary		7.05%
Turkey		5.97%
Spain		3.21%
Albania		3.18%
Montenegro		2.95%
Moldova		2.49%
Greece		2.47%
Czech Republic		1.96%
Kosovo		1.47%

The Romani population in the United States is estimated at more than one million. Brazil has the second largest Romani population in the Americas, estimated at approximately 800,000 by the 2011 census. The Romani people are mainly called by non-Romani ethnic Brazilians as ciganos.
United States: 1,000,000 estimated with Romani people.
Isn't it more of transforms to "Harrapan invasion theory" of Europe , rather than "Aryan invasion theory" of India by British,

"The caste system as we today know and practice is an invention and tradition of the Vedic pastoralists, not the Indus Valley."

Can you give source from ancient texts or scriptures, where the castes are mentioned in Vedas,
FYI, Varna is not Caste,
Sanatan dharm does not practice caste system. Same as indus valley civilization,

"However, now it has been conclusively proven that the Indus Valley Civilisation was not Vedic, and came before the Rig Veda. A sample recovered in 2015 from a Haryana village named Rakhigarhi which is from a male human who lived 4500 years ago shows that he had no part of the same gene as the Aryans (which is known as R1A, and is common to people in northern and eastern Europe, Central Asia and South Asia). It has taken so long to determine this because DNA is not preserved well in our hot and wet climate.

The Rakhigarhi finding shows that the Harappan culture and the Indus Valley Civilisation were not the source of the Sanskrit language. The Vedic people were pastoralists, moving around with their cattle (the word Aryavarta means the ‘turning of the Arya’, in a reference to a large herd being moved around). Whereas the Indus Valley Civilisation, including Lothal and Babar Kot in Gujarat, Rakhigarhi and the places today in Pakistan, was urban and built around planned cities, which also had drainage and sanitation."

"The caste system as we today know and practice is an invention and tradition of the Vedic pastoralists, not the Indus Valley."
"The gods of our first ancestors who lived along the Sindhu river were different from the gods of those who came and mixed with them. Even the Vedic pastoralists, whom we call Aryans, worshipped different gods than the ones popular in India today. There are not many Indians who pray to Indra or Varuna. Today we worship newer gods from the Puranas (written after the Vedic period), like Ram and Krishna and Ganesh and Lakshmi."

I'll say it AGAIN. DESIST FROM ATTEMPTING TO USURP Pakistan'S heritage. The IVC was PRE-VEDIC AND PRE-ARYAN.

ARYANS CORRUPTED THEIR BELIEFS. HARAPPANS BURIED THEIR DEAD. HARAPPANS WORSHIPPED AN EARTH MOTHER AND NATURE AS WELL AS PROTO-HINDU DEITIES. THIS WAS A REFINED, PEACEFUL ANIMIST FAITH, WITHOUT A CASTE HIERARCHY WHATSOEVER.

THEY ALSO ARE BEEF, WHICH I AM GLAD YOU ACCEPT. YOU YOURSELF ACCEPT SOME SORT OF EVOLUTION OR CHANGE OCCURRED WHICH RESULTED IN NEWER HINDUS HAVING DIFFERENT BELIEFS, INCLUDING ABSTENTION FROM BEEF, TOTAL replacement OF burial WITH CREMATION.
Use some common sense and understand that there is a simple political reason that Aryans mutated the original IVC beliefs to their benefit. They wanted power, which is natural. So, take the existing belief system and corrupt it to position yourselves as atop a new hierarchy within this religion. Who wouldn't do this?! It's not even that clever.
"The problem between associating IVC and Vedic Civilisation boils down to 2 problems. Vedas swear by the horse (with 27 ribs and all) while Harappans only know of wild asses (26 ribs) and no more. There are no horse bones, drawings or even toys of horse borne carts – there are bullock carts though (my edit: note Sinauli chariot, without spoked wheels is unlikely to be horse drawn but more likely bulkock drawn and for peaceful purposes).

The second question is that Vedic literature discusses an entirely nomadic life and there are no fixed places of stay or worship. Harappans were highly urbanised for almost a thousand years. If IVC practiced any religion, then there is very little evidence. So the connection is not obvious.

Having said this, there are some well-made, well preserved seals in IVC which appear to represent one of the great gods of Hinduism – Shiva. Shiva is a very interesting god – he is the lord of animals (Pashupati), is an intellectual and short on temper. In many ways he is different in temperament than other gods of Vedic period. The others (Vishnu, Indra and Bramha) also have some connectivity with the Avetha of Iran from where the Vedic people presumably came. Hence it can be argued, with some merit, that Shiva was a IVC god assimilated in the Hindu Pantheon when the Vedic people came to India towards the podt urban declining phase of IVC when the cities had been abandoned. That is the closest you have, to a synthesis of data but the subtleties can be argued ad infinitum.

This study Contradicts (again ) to whole labor you went through to write your fairytale and wish impulses ,

One famous seal displayed a figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the lotus position, surrounded by animals. It came to be labelled after Pashupati (lord of beasts), an epithet of Shiva. The discoverer of the Shiva seal (M420), Sir John Marshall and others have claimed that this figure is a prototype of Shiva, and have described it as having three faces, seated on a throne in a version of the cross-legged lotus posture of Hatha Yoga. Yogi's penis is erect, with both testicles prominently visible. The precise placement of both heels under the scrotum is an advanced Tantric Yoga technique known as Bandha, meaning knot or lock. It is normally used to sublimate and redirect sexual energy and can endow the practitioner with spiritual powers.

A large tiger rears upwards by the yogi's right side, facing him. This is the largest animal on the seal, shown as if warmly connected to the yogi; the stripes on the tiger's body, also in groups of five, highlight the connection. Three other smaller animals are depicted on the Shiva seal. It is most likely that all the animals on this seal are totemic or heraldic symbols, indicating tribes, people or geographic areas. On the Shiva seal, the tiger, being the largest, represents the yogi's people, and most likely symbolizes the Himalayan region. The elephant probably represents central and eastern India, the bull or buffalo south India and the rhinoceros the regions west of the Indus river. Heinrich Zimmer agrees that the Pashupati figure shows a figure in a yoga posture.

Pashupati
The people of the Indus Valley also appear to have worshipped a male god. The most important depiction of an imagined Hinduism god is seal number 420. Many other seals have been found depicting the same figure, but not in the same detail as number 420. The deity is wearing a headdress that has horns, the shape being reminiscent of the crescent moon that modern image of Siva shows on his forehead.

What are thought to be linga stones have been dug up. Linga stones in modern Hinduism are used to represent the erect male phallus or the male reproductive power of the god Siva. But again, these stones could be something entirely different from objects of religious worship. Even today, Siva is worshipped in both human form and that of the phallus. The deity sitting in a yoga-like position suggests that yoga may have been a legacy of the very first great culture that occupied India.




Shiva Pashupati
by Marcus334 (Public Domain)



Religious Sign of Swastika
The earliest sure use of swastika motifs in the archaeological record goes to the Neolithic epoch. The symbol appears in the "Vinca script" of Neolithic Europe (Balkans, 6th to 5th millennium BCE. Another early attestation is on a pottery bowl found at Samarra, dated to as early as 4000 BCE. Joseph Campbell in an essay on The Neolithic-Palaeolithic Contrast cites an ornament on a Late Palaeolithic (10,000 BCE) mammoth ivory bird figurine found near Kiev as the only known occurrence of such a symbol predating the Neolithic. The swastika appears only very rarely in the archaeology of ancient Mesopotamia.

In Hinduism, the Swastika in two drawings symbolizes two forms of the creator god Brahma. Facing right it signifies the evolution of the universe; facing left it typifies the involution of the universe. The swastika is one of the 108 symbols of the Hindu deity Vishnu and represents the Sun's rays, upon which life depends. It is also seen as pointing in all four directions (north, east, south and west) and thus implies stability. Its use as a Sun symbol can first be seen in its image of the god Surya. The swastika is used in all Hindu yantras and religious designs.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

LOL,
Again contradictions,
Even the so called dravidians have caucasian skulls,

"The Dravidian people of ancient India are Caucasoids (Caucasian) and not Negroids. Causcasoids can be white, brown and even black. The work of Dr Zacharias Thundy of Northern Michigan University."

Here are some pictures of so called Dravidians with albino disease, ( Albinism is a congenital disorder characterized in humans by the complete or partial absence of pigment in the skin, hair and eyes.)
View attachment 690742View attachment 690743
Hence the term Dravidians, were coined to describe indigenous population living in the south or coastal Area, Which more of Correlates to geographical position and location of the populace of ancient bharat, Not some Aryan-Dravidian fist fight competition,

Even the Harrapans or ancient Bhartiya people migrated to Eurasia, Not just that the Aryans came to ancient India,
Have a look at the Roma people living in Europe as nomads even today,

The Roma originate from Punjab and Rajasthan areas of India. Their ancestors emigrated from India approximately 1000 years ago and travelled through Asia to Europe and later to the Americas. For centuries they maintained a nomadic lifestyle but were forced to settle under the communist regimes of Eastern Europe.
While in India, the Romani people followed the Hindu religion ,

Population of Roma community around the Europe
*projections for Serbia also include up to 97.000 Roma IDPs in Serbia[248]

Roma estimate percentage of population in European countries[247]
Country		Percent
Bulgaria		10.33%
North Macedonia		9.59%
Slovakia		9.17%
Romania		8.32%
Serbia*		8.18%
Hungary		7.05%
Turkey		5.97%
Spain		3.21%
Albania		3.18%
Montenegro		2.95%
Moldova		2.49%
Greece		2.47%
Czech Republic		1.96%
Kosovo		1.47%

The Romani population in the United States is estimated at more than one million. Brazil has the second largest Romani population in the Americas, estimated at approximately 800,000 by the 2011 census. The Romani people are mainly called by non-Romani ethnic Brazilians as ciganos.
United States: 1,000,000 estimated with Romani people.
Isn't it more of transforms to "Harrapan invasion theory" of Europe , rather than "Aryan invasion theory" of India by British,

Can you give source from ancient texts or scriptures, where the castes are mentioned in Vedas,
FYI, Varna is not Caste,
Sanatan dharm does not practice caste system. Same as indus valley civilization,


This study Contradicts (again ) to whole labor you went through to write your fairytale and wish impulses ,

One famous seal displayed a figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the lotus position, surrounded by animals. It came to be labelled after Pashupati (lord of beasts), an epithet of Shiva. The discoverer of the Shiva seal (M420), Sir John Marshall and others have claimed that this figure is a prototype of Shiva, and have described it as having three faces, seated on a throne in a version of the cross-legged lotus posture of Hatha Yoga. Yogi's penis is erect, with both testicles prominently visible. The precise placement of both heels under the scrotum is an advanced Tantric Yoga technique known as Bandha, meaning knot or lock. It is normally used to sublimate and redirect sexual energy and can endow the practitioner with spiritual powers.

A large tiger rears upwards by the yogi's right side, facing him. This is the largest animal on the seal, shown as if warmly connected to the yogi; the stripes on the tiger's body, also in groups of five, highlight the connection. Three other smaller animals are depicted on the Shiva seal. It is most likely that all the animals on this seal are totemic or heraldic symbols, indicating tribes, people or geographic areas. On the Shiva seal, the tiger, being the largest, represents the yogi's people, and most likely symbolizes the Himalayan region. The elephant probably represents central and eastern India, the bull or buffalo south India and the rhinoceros the regions west of the Indus river. Heinrich Zimmer agrees that the Pashupati figure shows a figure in a yoga posture.

Pashupati
The people of the Indus Valley also appear to have worshipped a male god. The most important depiction of an imagined Hinduism god is seal number 420. Many other seals have been found depicting the same figure, but not in the same detail as number 420. The deity is wearing a headdress that has horns, the shape being reminiscent of the crescent moon that modern image of Siva shows on his forehead.

What are thought to be linga stones have been dug up. Linga stones in modern Hinduism are used to represent the erect male phallus or the male reproductive power of the god Siva. But again, these stones could be something entirely different from objects of religious worship. Even today, Siva is worshipped in both human form and that of the phallus. The deity sitting in a yoga-like position suggests that yoga may have been a legacy of the very first great culture that occupied India.




Shiva Pashupati
by Marcus334 (Public Domain)



Religious Sign of Swastika
The earliest sure use of swastika motifs in the archaeological record goes to the Neolithic epoch. The symbol appears in the "Vinca script" of Neolithic Europe (Balkans, 6th to 5th millennium BCE. Another early attestation is on a pottery bowl found at Samarra, dated to as early as 4000 BCE. Joseph Campbell in an essay on The Neolithic-Palaeolithic Contrast cites an ornament on a Late Palaeolithic (10,000 BCE) mammoth ivory bird figurine found near Kiev as the only known occurrence of such a symbol predating the Neolithic. The swastika appears only very rarely in the archaeology of ancient Mesopotamia.

In Hinduism, the Swastika in two drawings symbolizes two forms of the creator god Brahma. Facing right it signifies the evolution of the universe; facing left it typifies the involution of the universe. The swastika is one of the 108 symbols of the Hindu deity Vishnu and represents the Sun's rays, upon which life depends. It is also seen as pointing in all four directions (north, east, south and west) and thus implies stability. Its use as a Sun symbol can first be seen in its image of the god Surya. The swastika is used in all Hindu yantras and religious designs.
View attachment 690748

Hilarious. None of what you just said proves IVC Hindus have the same beliefs as post arya Hindus. Contrarily, it proves some basic similarities but substantial differences as I have already outlined. We know they were proto-hindu. We know about some overlapping deities.

We also know they are beef, buried most of their dead, and didn't have a caste system. Keep your filthy Aryan hands off our history. To you your ancestors, to us ours.

Btw, thanks for the pics of albinos and your caucasoid rant. It doesn't make an iota of difference to the fact that genomes of dravidians are different to those of north Indians and the original Aryans. Let's be even more specific - harappans had different genomes yet again, hence our origins are different to yours. What you exist as today is chiefly due to fathering by IVC and Aryans. If it wasn't for this reality, you'd still be riding elephants. Don't lose sleep over it.

 

[suyog chavan]

Hilarious. None of what you just said proves IVC Hindus have the same beliefs as post arya Hindus. Contrarily, it proves some basic similarities but substantial differences as I have already outlined. We know they were proto-hindu. We know about some overlapping deities.

We also know they are beef, buried most of their dead, and didn't have a caste system. Keep your filthy Aryan hands off our history. To you your ancestors, to us ours.

Btw, thanks for the pics of albinos and your caucasoid rant. It doesn't make an iota of difference to the fact that genomes of dravidians are different to those of north Indians and the original Aryans. Let's be even more specific - harappans had different genomes yet again, hence our origins are different to yours. What you exist as today is chiefly due to fathering by IVC and Aryans. If it wasn't for this reality, you'd still be riding elephants. Don't lose sleep over it.

Facts are facts, And they facts, doesn't seem to be on your side,
You can have a feel good syndrome , Until a major archaeological study unleashes all this study upon your kind.
Will enjoy the crackdown and outcry then, With mega large popcorn bucket,
To be honest your ranting and self wish impulse proves nothing at the end of the day.

We also know they are beef, buried most of their dead, and didn't have a caste system. Keep your filthy Aryan hands off our history. To you your ancestors, to us ours.

Your ancestors??, lol
We have kept Harrapan lineage intact by sacrificing our Braveheart men to invaders, You claiming them your ancestors is disgrace to them, Really exceeded the level of hypocrisy

To be precise its called Antyesti (burial) in Hinduism , which is practiced even today ,So lets drop the Abrahmic lens over here,
Burial In Hinduism: Apart from the cremation method there are large sects in Hinduism which follow burial of the dead. The preparatory rituals are more or less similar to cremation viz, washing the body, applying vibuthi or chandam on the forehead of the deceased etc, but instead of cremating, the deceased is buried.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Facts are facts, And they facts, doesn't seem to be on your side,
You can have a feel good syndrome , Until a major archaeological study unleashes all this study upon your kind.
Will enjoy the crackdown and outcry then, With mega large popcorn bucket,
To be honest your ranting and self wish impulse proves nothing at the end of the day.


Your ancestors??, lol
We have kept Harrapan lineage intact by sacrificing our Braveheart men to invaders, You claiming them your ancestors is disgrace to them, Really exceeded the level of hypocrisy

To be precise its called Antyesti (burial) in Hinduism , which is practiced even today ,So lets drop the Abrahmic lens over here,
Burial In Hinduism: Apart from the cremation method there are large sects in Hinduism which follow burial of the dead. The preparatory rituals are more or less similar to cremation viz, washing the body, applying vibuthi or chandam on the forehead of the deceased etc, but instead of cremating, the deceased is buried.

You enjoy your bastardised practices. You failed to keep harappan culture alive and your ancestors chose to evolve along the pathway of an enslaver. Harappans didn't exercise caste discrimination.

Simple as.

Aryan Hinduism did implement caste discrimination.

Again, simple as.

No amount of thought wrangling will change this reality for you.

As for new data.... What was the rakhigiri find? That was the magical new data we all waited for. Yet it proved harappans were pre-Aryan.

Thanks for confirming what Pakistan already knows.

You make me laugh man.....defenders of harappans....when you changed their religion at the first opportunity!

Why do you think Aryans had an intense rivalry with the IVC ?? Read up about the vedic rulings declaring IVC to be mleccha or barbarians.

You "defended" IVC by declaring any visitor to the IVC to be rendered impure??

Go on. Back to the jungle mate. Shoo!

 

[Cliftonite]

Tamil the worlds oldest language and Sanskrit the world's second oldest language are similar,

You uneducated fool ,Tamil and Sanskrit are not related.

Tamil is a Dravidian language and Sanskrit is an Indo European language. Educate your self before opening your mouth.

And Tamil is not the world's oldest language by a long shot.

 

[suyog chavan]

You enjoy your bastardised practices. You failed to keep harappan culture alive and your ancestors chose to evolve along the pathway of an enslaver. Harappans didn't exercise caste discrimination.

Simple as.

Aryan Hinduism did implement caste discrimination.

Again, simple as.

No amount of thought wrangling will change this reality for you.

Your ranting has zero value, Why don't you present sources from Vedas and ancient scriptures of Sanatan Dharm which mentions any caste ,
Running off from reality is not going to help you for long run, mate.

As for new data.... What was the rakhigiri find? That was the magical new data we all waited for. Yet it proved harappans were pre-Aryan.

LOL Contradictions again and again and again till making complete fool out of yourself
Rakhigiri study more of contradicts your claims Rather than supporting,

NEW DELHI: The first study of the DNA samples of the skeletal remains excavated from Rakhigarhi, an Indus Valley Civilisation (IVC) site in Haryana, has found no traces of Iranian farmer or steppe pastoralist ancestry, which according to the lead archaeologist in the team raises doubt over the long-held theory of Aryan invasion or migration into South Asia.

IN early September, the newspapers reported with the publication of a scientific paper on the DNA analysis on an individual skeleton found in the Harappan site of Rakhigarhi in Hisar district of Haryana. The analysis was conducted by a fairly large group of geneticists and a few archaeologists. The deceptive titles of some of these news reports, particularly the reference to the “Aryan invasion theory” being debunked, has caught the eyes of the interested public. I, and I am sure historians, too, received phone calls asking for comments. I have been told there is much social media traction for this story. I am neither a geneticist nor an archaeologist like the 28 authors of the scientific paper on gene analysis, but as a historian familiar with the debates and the issues involved, I find it necessary to address some concerns that have been raised by several academics. It appears that to separate the wheat from the chaff, we first need to critically look at the paper and then at the media reports.

The report in The Economic Times (published on September 6) has quoted Professor Vasant Shinde, the lead author of the paper in the scientific journal Cell (September 5, 2019), as saying: “The paper indicates that there was no Aryan invasion and no Aryan migration and that all the developments right from the hunting-gathering stage to modern times in South Asia were done by indigenous people.”


It is indigeneity that seems to be the catchword and the great new discovery that the scholar seems to be excited about. I wonder whether the next step will be to go back to the issue of polygenesis of modern humans, to debunk the “out of Africa” thesis.

Let us move to the paper published in Cell titled “An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers”. The main arguments in this paper may be summed up as follows: excavations at the site of Rakhigarhi have revealed a Mature Harappan context dated to about 2800-2300 BCE; the sampling of the skeletal remains was done at this site, of what appears to be a woman with the genetic identification code I6113 and the archaeological skeletal code RGR7.3, BR-01, HS-02. the principal-component analysis technique involving a comparison with similar data from 11 other skeletal remains in two sites [Gonur (3) and Shahr-i-Sokhta (8)] was undertaken. Cutting through the details of techniques and analysis, it appears that “this individual is not only significantly different in ancestry from the primary ancient populations of Bronze Age Gonur and Shahr-i-Sokhta but also does not fall within the variation of present-day South Asians”, according to the authors of the study.

We are further told that the 11 samples that were chosen for comparison were from among 44 individuals because of a distinctive ancestry profile, where the Indus Periphery Cline (IPC) saw a match with the Indus Valley Cline (IVC). (Cline refers to a gradual change of a phenotype over a long period of time in a region due to environmental variability, from the Greek meaning “to lean”.) Hence, the authors postulated the possibility that there was outward migration from the IVC to Iran and Turkmenistan, as the 12 skeletal remains were seen as belonging to the same cline.

Why do you think Aryans had an intense rivalry with the IVC ?? Read up about the vedic rulings declaring IVC to be mleccha or barbarians.

You "defended" IVC by declaring any visitor to the IVC to be rendered impure??

Go on. Back to the jungle mate. Shoo!

Present the source from the Vedas Then, liar

 

[El Sidd]

India needs a new anthem.

The current anthem claims territories never seen by an Indian.

This state indoctrinated belief is flaring terrorism in the region and used as hegemonic tool to assert subversion of smaller neighbours.