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JUST IN - U.S. is "ready for other options" if diplomacy with Iran does not work, Biden says after meeting with Israel's PM Bennett.

an incident from 2006 , you strategically forget to mention in those days some Sunni angles on daily bases blown up at least 100 or more Shia demon and you managed to find one incident attributed to some angry Shia youth congratulation on your fairness and thoroughness .

No I don't, I recognize ISIS and AQ as terrorists. And I also consider these Iran-led militias to be terrorists too. That's difference between me and those who whitewash the crimes and intents of these militias who working to secure Iranian economic and political interests in Iraq at expense of local population.
 
Do you read Quran? Do you know Rooh-Allah is the title of Prophet Jesus, why is your guy giving himself such a title?
do you knew Ahmad is the title of holy prophet in Quran why you guys call your babies that, what about Mahmood, Karim, Rahmat, Amin, Abdollah, Mostafa and Motevakkel ?
more importantly how you become so desperate to cling to such straws , its just a name nothing more
No I don't, I recognize ISIS and AQ as terrorists. And I also consider these Iran-led militias to be terrorists too. That's difference between me and those who whitewash the crimes and intents of these militias who working to secure Iranian economic and political interests in Iraq at expense of local population.
as I said you mentioned an Incident by some angry Shia youth at a time that on the daily base about 100 or more Shia were killed and those attacks very soon stopped by intervention of Shia clerics and leaders , I can't say so about attacks against Shias and later all Iraqis
 
We can clearly see that:


This is a shift in statements, going from "Iran caused a stampede in Mecca" to the 1987 incident, which isn't exactly the same. What this shows, is incomplete mastery of the subject matter, where topics are confused with each other and where facts do not really matter anymore.

Now as concerns the 1987 incident, here's what happened: Iranian pilgrims, joined by their Sunni Muslim brothers and sisters from a variety of origins including from places as removed as the Philippines, staged demonstrations against zionism and US imperialism. Which Saudi authorities did not acquiesce to authorize. When attacked by Saudi security forces, pilgrims fought back with whatever they could muster.


Firstly, this strike was claimed by Yemenis defending against Saudi aggression of their country. We don't know with certainty who carried it out.

But even assuming it was Iran, and this brings me to the second point, Saudi Arabia is a US vassal regime. It belongs to the zio-American imperial architecture and is playing a central role in it, namely by instituting the petro-dollar and thereby assisting the US in exerting its financial hegemony across the globe. Containing the Saudi regime is containing one of the region's foremost American allies, which in recent years has began collaborating with the zionist occupation regime as well.

Thirdly, Saudi ruler Bin Salman had threatened to "bring the war onto Iranian soil" prior to the Abqaiq attack. This was followed by several acts of terrorism in Iran with support from Saudi intelligence as per Iranian investigations. After the strike on Abqaiq, Bin Salman gradually struck a more conciliatory tone, to the benefit of both parties.

Fourthly, this was a non-lethal attack. There's no comparison between this and the numerous direct and indirect clashes between Iran on the one hand and the zionist entity and US on the other.


Which starts off with the following sentence:

The Iran–Iraq War[c] (Persian: جنگ ایران و عراق‎; Arabic: الحرب الإيرانية العراقية‎) was a protracted armed conflict that began on 22 September 1980 with a full-scale invasion of Iran by neighbouring Iraq.

Moreover, preventive wars are illegal in international law. The Bush jr. regime in Washington sought to justify its illegal invasion of Iraq with preemptive types of considerations.

Not to mention that whatever preemptive casus belli Saddam might have cobbled together, Iran would have had greater justification by the very same logic, since like I said Iraq concretely began reactivating "ethno"-separatist grouplets in the Iranian province of Khuzestan shortly after the 1979 Revolution.

Saddam started the 1980-1988 war and he bears full responsibility for it. Iran was in a situation of legitimate defense. No ifs or buts on this one.


"A US government body that monitors global religious freedom"? Nothing more needs to be said now, does it?

And I don't see how Iran can be accused of not being sincere in its Resistance against zio-American imperialism if it imposes restrictions on US-controlled Evangelical missionaries trying to encourage Muslims to leave Islam, or on the British-sponsored Bahai sect, which claims there are prophets after Muhammad (s).

Iran even tried inciting Shia revolution in Pakistan:
July 5, 1980
Shiite Protests in Pakistan Expose Sectarian Tensions
Tens of thousands of Shias protest in Islamabad against the imposition of some Sunni laws on all Muslims. Pakistan’s president gives Shias an exemption, but the sectarian confrontation becomes an important political issue in the country.

And where does it say Iran organized this protest? How is a protest on some domestic issue in Pakistan the same as a revolution or an attempted revolution? These problematics have had a long history in Pakistan, and practically date back to the establishment of Pakistan in 1948, wat before the Iranian Revolution.

Iranian supported groups doing their sectarian violence in name of fighting Israel/USA, while getting into power thanks to USA. And doing joint operations against ISIS:
One of Baghdad's most deadly sectarian pogroms, which saw at least 40 people, apparently all Sunnis, killed by Shia militants in a rampage in a Baghdad suburb last weekend, has further damaged sectarian relations in Iraq.

Witnesses said gunmen, some masked, set up roadblocks and stopped motorists in the mainly Sunni suburb of Jihad, near Baghdad airport, demanding to see identity cards. Those with Sunni names were shot dead; Shias were released.


1) There is no indication at all that the culprits were backed let alone directed to act in this manner by Iran. In the entire article, Iran isn't even mentioned a single time.

2) Any and all inter-communal violence in Iraq was kick started by the 2006 bombing of the Al-Askari shrine which is holy to Shia Muslims, at the hands of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's "I"S. Prior to that, no killings whatsoever. You bomb a Shia holy site ie the mausoleum of a descendant of the Prophet, you'll be guaranteed to have some angry people reacting the wrong way.

This communal violence was therefore neither provoked nor wished for by Iran, and there was nothing Iran could do about it once the bombing had happened, other than what it actually did - calls for calm by Iranian Shia clerics including marjas, invitations to Islamic unity, and so on and so forth.

3) In the article there's no mention of joint operations between Iran and the US against "I"SIS either.

No they don't, it's normal diplomatic relationship.

Normal diplomatic relationship and working relationship, what's the big difference? It represents a change from the 1990's in either case.

Taliban is aware of Iranian terrorist regime nature.

Provide evidence as to this being the Taliban's standpoint on Iran. Speaking for others will not contribute to substantiating one's assertions.

Iranian 'resisitance axis' media is calling the Taliban takeover a US conspiracy against Iran

Is there a source for this? Furthermore, did you conduct a proper survey of Iranian media? There's a plurality of opinions in Iran including in the media. For every one article making the above cited claim about the Taliban, I can show two which don't.

There's nothing in Iranian or in Taliban policy that corroborates this notion of a continuing, deep seated animosity. And this is what counts ultimately.

and refuses to recognize Taliban's rule over of Afghanistan or attribute any legitimacy to the movement.

By virtue of hosting their representatives, conducting negotiations with them for several years in a row and reaching an agreement on how to envisage normalized bilateral relations, Iran has already legitimized the Taliban.

Furthermore, as far as integrating other parties into the future Taliban-led government, this is something the Taliban themselves have been pursuing for quite some time now. Just a few days ago, one of their spokespersons even invited someone like general Dostom back into Afghanistan, calling on him to lay down his arms and join in.

We can also see from the way in which the Taliban peacefully and securely escorted Ismail Khan (Iran's Sunni Muslim ally from Herat) to the Iranian border, that the two sides have been coordinating their actions.

Before this incident, Iran was supportive of the Afghan Northern Alliance, and the city of Mazari Sharif was one of the headquarters of the alliance. It is reported that between May and July 1997 Abdul Malik Pahlawan executed thousands of Taliban prisoners as a revenge for the 1995 death of Abdul Ali Mazari. "He is widely believed to have been responsible for the brutal massacre of up to 3,000 Taliban prisoners after inviting them into Mazar-i-Sharif."[4] As revenge, Taliban forces captured Mazar-i-Sharif and killed hundreds of Northern Alliance members, particularly members of the Hazara and Uzbek ethnic group as they were accused of being the ones who carried out the killings of Taliban prisoners.[citation needed]

Abdul Malik Pahlawan is Uzbek (and Sunni), not Hazara. And the 7000 from your previous post now became up to 3000.... Besides the fact that I wouldn't necessarily take any figures issued by Afghan warring parties at face value.

What is of note though, is that the Taliban according to this same quote from Wikipedia took their revenge on civilians and did so on an "ethnic" basis, whereas what they were accusing their opponents of, was the execution of fighters - not that executing POWs is permitted or acceptable, but to take it out on ordinary civilians is one step worse even.

Either way, massacres were committed by both sides and both sides had foreign sponsors. Certainly Iran did not direct Pahlawan to perpetrate this act in 1997. But the whole point of establishing relations and finding a common ground for constructive ties is to get over the events of the 1990's Afghan civil war, not dwell on them forever.


Nobody knows for sure who committed these killings and according to the sole survivor of the massacre, it wasn't the Taliban.

Sure it can, so why don't Iran do it?

Because it comes at a price not worth paying unless attacked. Which is referred to as deterrence, basic principle of geopolitics.

In other terms, for the same reason India can nuke Pakistan now but won't. For the same reason China can nuke India but won't. Yet, these states are enemies to each other. Not that hard to see, frankly.

Nonsense, Iran is trying to export Twelver Shiasm and force it down peoples throats by changing scholars, forcing processions in Sunni dominated areas, and altering demographics of Muslim dominated cities in the name of attaining soft power.


Another American source... I must ask, are US media a beacon of truth? Especially when reporting on the US regime's adversaries? As well as a hostile Turkish source. Alright.

But even so, where do these papers claim Iran imposed Shia beliefs on non-Shia Muslims? You surely realize that imposing implies coercion and use of some kind of force. But nothing of the sort is being mentioned even in these papers.

Iran will do tabligh for Shia Islam like every other school does for itself, what is wrong with that? Plus, considering the mass of takfiri and sectarianist propaganda directed against Shia Islam, Iran has no choice but to respond. It will not sit idly while the Saudi regime spends huge amounts on targeting Shia Islam through its networks of salafist and wahhabi preachers, which once again are several times larger than anything Iran could ever afford to set up. Iran must therefore establish institutes that will allow people get familiar with the Shia version of things, rather than permitting hostile currents to monopolize the discourse on Shia Islam.

I honestly don't understand what is meant by "changing scholars". Same with "forcing processions in Sunni dominated areas". As for altering demographics, that's not true and there's no evidence to this effect.

West absolutely idolizes Twelver Shia Islam, tries to make it appear as intriguing and defends Twelver Shia sect. It never covers the original and real Shia sects which came before the Safavid takeover of Iran.

Western countries have actually opened their doors to massive Saudi-funded salafist learning centers and have allowed imams on Saudi payroll to take over mosque after mosque.

When it comes to Shia Islam, they have favored the anti-IR Shirazi clan and similar groups, all of which are extremely hostile to the Iranian Leadership. Pro-Iranian Shia associations are like a drop in the ocean over here.

Which original, real Shia sects? As for the Safavids, they relied on Arab scholars from Lebanon and Iraq to a considerable extent. Twelver Shia Islam existed long before the Safavid dynasty, hence why Lebanon, which was part of the Ottoman empire, had Twelver Shia scholars whom the Safavids promoted to leading scholarly positions.

I never said he wasn't, I said he is idolized for promotion of shirk beliefs. Should be noted he is from Persian background, just like the other mushrik mystic Al-Hallaj. We don't care if they claim to ascribe to Islam. Their beliefs were about ridiculing Islam.

Iranians do not have and never had a monopoly on sufi doctrines. These have existed throughout the Arabic,Turkic and South Asian world as well.

This is racialist prejudice right here. Suggesting that Iranians, whether Shia or Sunni, are somehow predisposed to adopting and spreading deviated beliefs because of their national origins... Besides, there are enough Muslims of non-Iranian backgrounds who do not share these above quoted characterizations of Rumi. However this is a purely theological discussion and has really nothing to do with nationality.

Do you read Quran? Do you know Rooh-Allah is the title of Prophet Jesus, why is your guy giving himself such a title?

I would need to reiterate then: in the context under discussion, Ruhollah is not a title but a first name parents give their male offspring. I have no clue how, when and based on what logic the usag, I'm not a historian of names. And therefore I shall refrain from drawing prejudicial conclusions when lacking the required knowledge. It could literally have dozens of possible explanations.
 
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When it comes to Shia Islam, they have promoted the anti-IR Shirazi clan and similar groups, all of which are extremely hostile to the Iranian Leadership. Pro-Iranian Shia associations are like a drop in the ocean over here.
Shirazi teaching is not only anti Iran but also anti Islam ,I wonder how somebody can consider him a Shia.
to me he is nothing but Khavarij , there is no way misinterpreting it being khavarij is not exclusive to Shia or Sunni follower of both sect can become part of it if they fail to see what they do is only divide Muslims.

and I believe that's why the west embrace him, he divide Muslims , wests support him
 
Shirazi teaching is not only anti Iran but also anti Islam ,I wonder how somebody can consider him a Shia.
to me he is nothing but Khavarij , there is no way misinterpreting it being khavarij is not exclusive to Shia or Sunni follower of both sect can become part of it if they fail to see what they do is only divide Muslims.

and I believe that's why the west embrace him, he divide Muslims , wests support him

Yes of course, that's the reason. No wonder Britain is leading the charge here, they are well versed in divide and rule tactics. And that's also why on the other side, the west is favoring extreme maktabs which consider Shias to be outside of Islam.
 
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This is a change of statements, going from "Iran caused a stampede in Mecca" to the 1987 incident, which isn't exactly the same. What this shows, is incomplete mastery of the subject matter, where topics are confused with each other and where facts do not really matter anymore.

Now as concerns the 1987 incident, here's what happened: Iranian pilgrims joined by their Sunni Muslim brothers from a variety of origins including from places as removed as the Philippines, staged demonstrations against zionism and US imperialism. Which Saudi authorities did not acquiesce to authorize. When attacked by Saudi security forces, pilgrims fought back with whatever they could muster.



Firstly, this strike was claimed by Yemenis defending against Saudi aggression of their country. We don't know with certainty who carried it out.

But even assuming it was Iran, and this brings me to the second point, Saudi Arabia is a US vassal regime. It belongs to the zio-American imperial architecture and is playing a central role in it, namely by instituting the petro-dollar and thereby assisting the US in exerting its financial hegemony over the planet. Containing the Saudi regime is containing one of the region's foremost American allies, which in recent years established contacts with the zionist regime as well.

Thirdly, Saudi ruler Bin Salman had threatened to "bring the war onto Iranian soil" prior to the Abqaiq operation. This was followed by several terrorist attacks in Iran with probable support from Saudi intelligence. After the strike on Abqaiq, spectacular attacks of this kind ceased and Bin Salman gradually struck a more conciliatory tone, to the benefit of both sides.

Fourthly, this was a non-lethal attack. There's no comparison with the numerous direct and indirect clashes between Iran on the one hand and the zionist entity and US on the other.



Which starts off with the following sentence:



Moreover, preventive wars are illegal in international law. The Bush jr. regime in Washington sought to justify its illegal invasion of Iraq with preemptive notions.

Not to mention that whatever preemptive casus belli Saddam might have cobbled together, Iran would have had greater justifications by the very same logic, since as said Iraq concretely began reactivating "ethno"-separatist grouplets in the Iranian province of Khuzestan right in the aftermath of the 1979 Revolution.

Saddam's Iraq started the 1980-1988 war and Saddam bears full responsibility for it. Iran was in a situation of legitimate defense. No ifs or buts on this one.


"A US government body that monitors global religious freedom"? No more needs to be said now, does it?

And I don't see how Iran can be accused of not being sincere in its Resistance against zio-American imperialism if it imposes restrictions on US-controlled Evangelicals trying to encourage Muslims to leave Islam, or on the British-sponsored Bahai sect, which claims that there are prophets after Muhammad (s).



And where does it say Iran organized this protest? How is a protest on some domestic issue in Pakistan the same as a revolution or attempted revolution? These problematics have had a long history in Pakistan, going back way before the Iranian Revolution.



1) There is no indication at all that the culprits were backed let alone directed to act in this manner by Iran. In the entire article, Iran isn't even mentioned a single time.

2) Any and all inter-communal violence in Iraq was kick started by the 2006 bombing of the Al-Askari shrine holy to Shia Muslims, perpetrated by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's "I"S. Prior to that, no killings whatsoever. You bomb a Shia holy site and mausoleum of a descendant of the Prophet, you will be guaranteed to have some angry people reacting the wrong way.

This communal violence was therefore neither provoked nor wished for by Iran, and there was nothing Iran could do about it once the bombing had happened, other than what it actually did - calls for calm by Iranian Shia clerics including marjas, invitations to Islamic unity, and so on and so forth.

3) There's no mention of joint operations between Iran and the US against "I"SIS in the article either.



Normal diplomatic relationship and working relationship, what's the big difference? It represents a change from the 1990's in either case.



Provide evidence as to this being the Taliban's standpoint on Iran. Speaking for others will not contribute to substantiating one's assertions.



Is there a source for this? Furthermore, did you conduct a proper survey of Iranian media? There's a plurality of opinions in Iran including in the media. For every one article making the above cited claim about the Taliban, I can show two which don't.

There's nothing in Iranian or in Taliban policy that corroborates this notion of a continuing, deep seated enmity. And this is what counts ultimately.



By virtue of hosting their representatives, conducting negotiations with them for several years in a row and reaching an agreement on how to envisage normalized bilateral relations, Iran has already legitimized the Taliban.

Furthermore, as far as integrating other parties into the future Taliban-led government, this is something the Taliban themselves have been pursuing for quite some time now. Just a few days ago, one of their spokespersons even invited someone like general Dostom back into Afghanistan, calling on him to lay down his arms and join the government.

We can also see from the way in which the Taliban peacefully escorted Ismail Khan (Iran's Sunni Muslim ally from Herat) to the Iranian border, that the two sides have been coordinating their actions.



Abdul Malik Pahlawan is Uzbek (and Sunni), not Hazara. And "3000" became "7000" in your previous post... Besides the fact that I wouldn't necessarily take any figures issued by Afghan warring parties at face value.

What is of note though, is that the Taliban according to this same quote from Wikipedia took their revenge on civilians and did so on an "ethnic" basis, whereas what they were accusing their opponents of, was the execution of fighters - not that executing POWs is permitted or acceptable, but to take it out on ordinary civilians is one step worse even.

Either way, massacres were committed by both sides and both sides had foreign sponsors. Certainly Iran did not direct Pahlawan to perpetrate these acts in 1997. But the whole point of establishing relations and finding a common ground for constructive ties is to get over the events of the 1990's Afghan civil war, not dwell on them forever.



Nobody knows for sure who committed these killings and according to the sole survivor of the massacre, it wasn't the Taliban.



Because it comes at a price not worth paying unless attacked. Which is referred to as deterrence, basic principle of geopolitics.

In other terms, for the same reason India can nuke Pakistan now but won't. For the same reason China can nuke India but won't. Yet, these states are enemies to each other. Not that hard to see, frankly.



Another American source... I must ask, are US media a beacon of truth? Especially when reporting on the US regime's adversaries? As well as a hostile Turkish one. Okay.

But even so, where do these papers claim Iran imposed Shia beliefs on non-Shia Muslims? You surely realize that imposing implies coercion and use of force. But nothing of the sort is being mentioned even in these papers.

Iran will do tabligh for Shia Islam like every other school does for itself, what's wrong with that? Plus, considering the mass of takfiri and sectarianist propaganda directed against Shia Islam, Iran has no choice but to respond. It will not sit idly while the Saudi regime spends many times the amount on targeting Shia Islam through its networks of salafist and wahhabi preachers, which once again are several times larger than anything Iran could ever afford to muster. Iran must therefore establish centers which will allow people get familiar with the Shia version of things, rather than permitting hostile currents to monopolize the discourse on Shia Islam.

I honestly don't understand what is meant by "changing scholars". Same with "forcing processions in Sunni dominated areas". As for altering demographics, that's not true and there's no evidence to this effect.



Western countries have actually opened their doors to massive Saudi-funded salafist learning centers and have allowed imams on Saudi payroll to take over mosque after mosque.

When it comes to Shia Islam, they have favored the anti-IR Shirazi clan and similar groups, all of which are extremely hostile to the Iranian Leadership. Pro-Iranian Shia associations are like a drop in the ocean over here.

Which original, real Shia sects? As for the Safavids, they relied on Arab scholars from Lebanon and Iraq to a considerable extent. Twelver Shia Islam existed long before the Safavid dynasty, hence why Lebanon, which was part of the Ottoman Empire, had Twelver Shia scholars which the Safavids promoted to leading scholarly positions.



Iranians do not have and never had a monopoly on sufi doctrines. These have existed throughout the Arab, Turkic and South Asian world as well.

This is racialist prejudice right here. Suggesting that Iranians, whether Shia or Sunni, are somehow predisposed to adopting and promoting deviated beliefs because of their national origins... Besides, there are enough non-Iranian Muslims who do not share these above quoted characterizations of Rumi. However this is a purely theological discussion and has really nothing to do with nationality.



I would need to reiterate then: Ruhollah is not a title but a first name in this specific context. I have no clue about its origins, I'm not a historian of names. And therefore I will refrain from drawing prejudicial conclusions when lacking the required knowledge. It could literally have dozens of possible explanations.
DAMN!!...
You not only ripped off his tinfoil hat,you then proceeded to stuff it down his throat as well.... :yahoo::enjoy:
 
Iran should've tested the nukes, every country has the right to defend itself from whatever threatens their existence. I don't understand that what stopping Iran? They already resisted the sanctions and world pressure for so long, I think they deserve the Nukes now, test it and be done with this threats from other nations.
 
why i must believe something that a former USA spymaster say for the record I don't believe in establishedformer spy if you enter KGB, CIA, NSA, MI6, MI5 or Mossad you joined for life you are even part of them after life and they use you for their agenda and CIA agenda is to demonize Iran and Hezbollah in the western hemisphere to desensitize their population against any atrocities they did here on this side of the world. and what better than interview and memoire of a so called retired spy master .

Leaving aside his interpretations, his book is a source for primary information. But you can also refer to works by legit historians. Fact is that Hezbollah at least partly arose out of an array of small splintered groups of activists. Another fact is that Iran has had an intelligence and security presence in Lebanon before Hezbollah officially materialized. Therefore it is highly probable that whilst working on the establishment of Hezbollah, Iran channeled aid to some smaller precursor groups.

The same has been the case in Iraq by the way. Iran has been very flexible in the type of organizations or networks it supports. They are not all identical or even similar to Hezbollah as far as their structures are concerned. Which is by the way very logical as well, because different theaters and different scenarios call for different types of organizational structures. The notion that if it's not a Hezbollah type of political party with a paramilitary armed wing, it could not have been created nor backed by Iran is flawed. Even Hezbollah evolved over time as far as its structure is concerned.

my point when we denied any attack anywhere if we were participated and why we deny this one.

One example is the 2007 raid on the Karbala provincial headquarters by an Asaib Ahl al-Haq commando dressed as US soldiers. According to a witness, they were led by a blonde man and spoke accentless English. Upon entering the compound they opened fire on occupation forces stationed there, before leaving the premises with four captive American troops, a first since the Vietnam war.

Not only is Asaib Ahl al-Haq a pro-Iranian Resistance group, but the Quds Force itself is said to have been more directly involved in this particular operation given its unprecedented degree of sophistication. And this is quite probable to be the case indeed, since Asaib Ahl al-Haq, then still a simple Resistance group, were not likely to be able to pull off on their own an operation of this caliber.

Needless to say, Iran never acknowledged having anything to do with it.

And when it comes to the 1983 Beirut attacks, the point still stands: if not with the help of Iran, then who? I don't see any other plausible candidates in this case.


or for example about AMIA why they are so afraid of Iran participate in fact finding about that incident what's in those hundreds of thousands of pages of investigation that they fear may come to light ? and why we must fall in their trap ?

As said, the AMIA accusations against Iran are bogus, because this attack does not reflect Iran's way of operating. Particularly since civilians were targeted.
 
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Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) lived in Habasha Kuffar kingdom for a period too!

Then moved between idol worshippers in Mekkah.

The Prophet (S.A.W) never went to Abyssinia.

Kuffar of Ahlu Ketab.

Christians that believe in 3 God.
The Abyssinian kingdom being Christian was not "Habasha Kuffar Kingdom". This is Islam 101, please don't spread misinformation. There is no such thing as "Kuffar of Ahlu Ketab", fhs.

Did you know that "kafir" doesn't mean "atheist" but "non-Muslim"?

That is not what it means.
 
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This is not your Imam Kharamani playground to throw around derogatory insults to Sunni Muslims. You are better suited in a Imam Kharamani forum and not a Pakistani Sunni Muslim one. This is kind of insults and true feelings you share of Taliban, but your govt has to be play nice now in public. You are doing me favor by showing your true Persian supremacist leanings, and also your cowardice by refusing to put your Iranian flag up.

Since When Calling you an "IDIOT, sectarian bigot " is Insults to Sunni Muslims.
 
Leaving aside his interpretations, his book is a source for primary information. But you can also refer to works by legit historians. Fact is that Hezbollah at least partly arose out of an array of small splintered groups of activists. Another fact is that Iran has had an intelligence and security presence in Lebanon before Hezbollah officially materialized. Therefore it is highly probable that whilst working on the establishment of Hezbollah, Iran channeled aid to some smaller precursor groups.
its no doubt that Iran supported many smaller groups before Hezbollah or Hezbollah is the result of unification many group who were fighting Israel some of them backed by Iran some didn't had such fortune . the problem is nobody really knew who IJO was and who were backing them everything anybody say is only speculation no one even admit to be part of the group at one time.
The same has been the case in Iraq by the way. Iran has been very flexible in the type of organizations or networks it supports. They are not all identical or even similar to Hezbollah as far as their structures are concerned. Which is by the way very logical as well, because different theaters and different scenarios call for different types of organizational structures. The notion that if it's not a Hezbollah type of political party with a paramilitary armed wing, it could not have been created nor backed by Iran is flawed. Even Hezbollah evolved over time as far as its structure is concerned.
Iran was supporting groups that it could predict their action , nobody knew much about IJO so its nearly impossible to predict their moves that's why I doubt Iran supporting them.
One example is the 2007 raid on the Karbala provincial headquarters by an Asaib Ahl al-Haq commando dressed as US soldiers. According to a witness, they were led by a blonde man and spoke accentless English. Upon entering the compound they opened fire on occupation forces stationed there, before leaving the premises with four captive American troops, a first since the Vietnam war.

Not only is Asaib Ahl al-Haq a pro-Iranian Resistance group, but the Quds Force itself is said to have been more directly involved in this particular operation given its unprecedented degree of sophistication. And this is quite probable to be the case indeed, since Asaib Ahl al-Haq, then still a simple Resistance group, were not likely to be able to pull off on their own an operation of this caliber.

Needless to say, Iran never acknowledged having anything to do with it.

And when it comes to the 1983 Beirut attacks, the point still stands: if not with the help of Iran, then who? I don't see any other plausible candidates in this case.



 
its no doubt that Iran supported many smaller groups before Hezbollah or Hezbollah is the result of unification many group who were fighting Israel some of them backed by Iran some didn't had such fortune .

It was a response to your previous assertion, which was evoking IJO's structural dissimilarity to Hezbollah and assuming that this speaks for it having been unrelated to Iran.

the problem is nobody really knew who IJO was and who were backing them everything anybody say is only speculation no one even admit to be part of the group at one time.

Still, this doesn't automatically imply that they had no links whatsoever to Iran.

Iran was supporting groups that it could predict their action , nobody knew much about IJO so its nearly impossible to predict their moves that's why I doubt Iran supporting them.

It could just be that Iran's involvement with them was indirect and that they retained a considerable degree of autonomy. However the following facts remain:

1) Those who hit American and French troops in Beirut in 1983 were supportive of Iran. Hence why I wrote pro-Iranian fighters - not necessarily a force organized from head to toe by Iran, but sympathetic towards Iranian nonetheless.

2) It's practically impossible for a group of private non-professionals to strike a US Marine base in Beirut, followed by a French military outpost and finally by the US embassy with such ease, without at least some measure of assistance from a more powerful actor, most probably a state.

3) And when examining which state this could have been, there's no candidate as plausible as Iran.

So while it is possible that the highest officials in Iran did not directly order these operations, those who carried them out were inspired by the Iranian Revolution on the ideological level and felt solidarity with its cause; furthermore, they most probably enjoyed some form of aid at least from some Iranian officials or military personnel acting in a private capacity and not necessarily on instructions from the top echelons of power.


Problem is that this article doesn't call into question the fact that Asaib Ahl al-Haq conducted this operation. It is only doubting the arguments put forth by the New York Times to allege direct Iranian involvement.

However, this is unnecessary hair splitting. For let's just leave aside US allegations and media reports for a moment (which by the way, I did not mention in my previous post): what are the odds that a crude, small local organization - at least at that time, such as Asaib Ahl al-Haq, would have been able to pull such an amazingly sophisticated attack all on its own? Where is it supposed to have gotten the blonde, accentless English-speaking operative from?

Based on the law of probabilities, there's close to zero chance that they would have managed to do this without some helping hand from a powerful state actor.
 
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