July 7th hearing on Aafia Siddiqui Competence

[Durran3]

Sorry truthseeker there is ample evidence of torture and humiliation at Abu Ghraib thats something you can't hide behind. Not only is there ample of evidence of this, its well documented both in video and pictorial format. Many of those who were incharge of security were suspended by the military court. They were humiliated, beaten, and put in the most of inhumane circumstances imaginable so no its NOT propaganda from the media these are facts that you are turning a blind eye to.

Many in Guantanamo were completely innocent and held for more than 6 years without any trial what so ever, held in solitary confinement and waterboarded and YES waterboarding Is torture. I posted this thread and its just an example of a few that were detained not to mentioned the 4 British Pakistan's that were held for no apparent reason as well.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...amo-4-chinese-muslims-now-living-bermuda.html

I suggest you also watch the Oscar winning documentary called Taxi to the Dark side.
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[Coolyo]

More lies from Mr. Coolyo. You are just full of lies, distortions and propaganda. No one was raped at Abu Ghraib and no one was tortured. Why don't Aafia's children come forward and tell where they have been? They are old enough to tell the world their story. Why does A. Siddiqui's family hide them? Are they afraid of the truth??? The children are not in US custody. Who's custody are they in? Pakistan's? Afghanistan's? Al Qaeda's? Ask yourself.......

Nope, I speak the truth, if anyone is lying it is you!

It is common knowledge that YOUR American forces commited massive acts of violence, aggression, rape, torture, and murder against the innocent people of Iraq! Insha Allah, America will get what it deserves!

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape' - Telegraph

Tyranny and aggression can only last so long... America will soon destroy itself, Insha Allah!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Sorry truthseeker there is ample evidence of torture and humiliation at Abu Ghraib thats something you can't hide behind. Not only is there ample of evidence of this, its well documented both in video and pictorial format.

There is no evidence of torture at abu Ghraib. Humiliation, yes, torture, no. There is no evidence of waterboarding at Guantanamo. Solitary confinement for periods, yes, torture, no. As for people held for no reason, the reason for the very few "no charges" cases was the greed of Pakistanis who "sold" purported al Qaeda prisoners to the US and gave false information to the US. Blame their cases on evil Pakistanis.

 

[zubair723]

There is no evidence of torture at abu Ghraib. Humiliation, yes, torture, no. There is no evidence of waterboarding at Guantanamo. Solitary confinement for periods, yes, torture, no. As for people held for no reason, the reason for the very few "no charges" cases was the greed of Pakistanis who "sold" purported al Qaeda prisoners to the US and gave false information to the US. Blame their cases on evil Pakistanis.

Would love to lock you up in my basement for a year and in the end will just say 'oops sorry for the humiliation, but I didn;t torture you'

 

[TruthSeeker]

Would love to lock you up in my basement for a year and in the end will just say 'oops sorry for the humiliation, but I didn;t torture you'

You are so kind. Have a nice day.

 

[Durran3]

There is no evidence of waterboarding at Guantanamo. Solitary confinement for periods, yes, torture, no. As for people held for no reason, the reason for the very few "no charges" cases was the greed of Pakistanis who "sold" purported al Qaeda prisoners to the US and gave false information to the US. Blame their cases on evil Pakistanis.

Your nickname does not suit you at all my friend, not only are you completely turning a blind eye to the facts you are completely oblivious to whats even going in your own country in terms of completely rejecting torture techniques like water boarding when you have people like Dick Cheney themselves admitting to using water boarding and defending torture techniques.

"Many former senior Bush administration officials, on the other hand, have seriously questioned or directly challenged the legality of waterboarding. These include former State Department Counselor Philip Zelikow[49][50], former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage[51], former Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge[52], former head of the Office of Legal Counsel Jack Goldsmith[53], General David Patraeus[54], General Ricardo Sanchez[55], FBI Director Robert Mueller[56], and former Convening Authority for the Guantanamo military commissions Susan J. Crawford."

Why do you think people like John McCain are against waterboarding, a topic that was even brought up during the Presidential debate against McCain's running counter part Romney? Why do you have people Mancow (a conservative radio talk show host) who tried waterboarding and admitted it to being torture, why do you have people like Christopher Hitches getting waterboarded and admitting its torture is because it EXISTS.. and it took place and there is ample evidence of it as well..

CIA releaed Torture memo in April 2009.. You can take a look at them here

Bush Torture Memos Released By Obama: See The Complete Documents

and here is DICK CHENEY who is admitting that he used Waterboarding, so not only are you wrong you are completely completely oblivious to whats happening.

 

[Durran3]

On top of that, here is something else you probably don't know!! Khalid Sheikh Muhammad was Waterboarded OVER 183 times in One month.. Pretty hysterical if you ask me.

On page 37 of the OLC memo, in a passage discussing the differences between SERE techniques and the torture used with detainees, the memo explains:

The CIA used the waterboard "at least 83 times during August 2002" in the interrogation of Zubaydah. IG Report at 90, and 183 times during March 2003 in the interrogation of KSM, see id. at 91.

The same OLC memo passage explains how the CIA might manage to waterboard these men so many times in one month each

...where authorized, it may be used for two "sessions" per day of up to two hours. During a session, water may be applied up to six times for ten seconds or longer (but never more than 40 seconds). In a 24-hour period, a detainee may be subjected to up to twelve minutes of water appliaction. See id. at 42. Additionally, the waterboard may be used on as many as five days during a 30-day approval period.

According to Times and New York Times

"CIA interrogators used the controverisal waterboarding technique 183 times on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind behind the September 11, 2001, attacks and 83 times on another al-Qaeda suspect, according to The New York Times.

A 2005 Justice Department memorandum revealed that the simulated drowning technique was used on Mohammed 183 times in March 2003.

Abu Zubaydah, the first prisoner questioned in the CIA's overseas detention programme in August 2002, was waterboarded 83 times, although a former CIA officer had told news organisations that he had been subjected to only 35 seconds under water before agreeing to tell everything he knew. "

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Now should Khalid Sheikh Muhammad be tortured? I say its fine considering he was the mastermind behind 911 thus responsible for 3000 civilian deaths but to admit that these methods don't exist is just being completely ignorant and oblivious to your surroundings

 

[Awesome]

How do you know Aafia is "innocent"? All of the publicly available information points to her as being guilty of being an al Qaeda irhabi. What evidence do you have that she is not? Where are her children? Do you know? Why not?

What evidence points to the fact that she is guilty? The only thing I see is your people kidnapping a woman and holding her captive and are now pussy footing in giving her a fair trial or have possibly driven her insane with torture.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The only thing I see is your people kidnapping a woman and holding her captive and are now pussy footing in giving her a fair trial or have possibly driven her insane with torture.

She wasn't kidnapped. She was arrested by the Afghani police in Afghanistan and extradited to the US. There is no evidence of her torture.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Durran3,

Waterboarding was done to three al Qaeda prisioners, all before 2004. None in Guantanamo. Where is your evidence that waterboarding has ever been done in Guantanamo? No other waterboarding has been alleged other than the three cases in 2003, which occurred in CIA detentions somewhere else, probably at Bagram in Afghanistan. You are blowing all the media "torture" crap out of proportion to advance your irhabi agenda. Just because you hate the US does not mean that your exaggerations are true. If you want to investigate and oppose torture so much I suggest you look into the practices of Muslim majority countries across the Middle East (and South Asia). You will find an order of magnitude more cases and more deaths and destruction of individuals there. The US are babes in the woods when it comes to torture. That is why we usually outsource such tasks to our Arab friends who are the experts. Your Muslim irhabi buddies are the champions of torture though, far and away.

 

[Durran3]

You are blowing all the media "torture" crap out of proportion to advance your irhabi agenda. Just because you hate the US does not mean that your exaggerations are true. If you want to investigate and oppose torture so much I suggest you look into the practices of Muslim majority countries across the Middle East (and South Asia)

Your Muslim irhabi buddies are the champions of torture though, far and away.

Absolutely Unbelievable, first of all the fact that your calling me an Irhabi which i find to be downright very offensive and than label me as a person who is Anti-US shows how much an absolutely foolish, ignorant and an idiot you are. You Sir deserve no respect in this community what so ever!! If you ever cared to read my previous posts you would understand that i am by far the most Pro US/Israel person on these boards and consider the US Constitution to be one of the Best constitutions in the world.. and the fact that i am a Diest and you calling me Irhabi leads me to believe that not only are you a Fundee yourself but that you immediatly need to label another person to get your point across.

On top of that the i've been debating and fighting with the hardline Fundee's on these threads as well if you ever bothered to read before spewing your Bullshit across this board.. you aren't even worth my 2 cents to reply or have a proper conversation with!! if you had an ounce of respect i suggest you go into my profile and read my 7 or 8 old posts before posting nonsense again!! I suggest you read this thread from page 6 and onwards before you want to ever label me an Irhabi again

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/29366-saudis-give-nod-israeli-raid-iran-6.html

Shameful to say the least and quiet immature/childish on all levels.

cheers

 

[TruthSeeker]

Absolutely Unbelievable, first of all the fact that your calling me an Irhabi which i find to be downright very offensive and than label me as a person who is Anti-US shows how much an absolutely foolish, ignorant and an idiot you are.

OK, I apologize for calling you an irhabi. I am sorry for that. Your dwelling on the torture BS, though, advances their agenda. Also if you read through this thread you will see that you, and the other posters, never address the facts that I present in my responding posts. You and they just keep hammering your anti-US propaganda without nary a pause to directly answer my responses.

I started this thread to put some facts forward about the Aafia Siddiqui case. But instead of accommodating to the facts all the response was the same mindless tripe about her being tortured and kidnapped by the US. You, who purport to be so knowledgeable and fair, just piled on with your irrelevant crap about US torture, never commenting on the subject of the thread at all.

 

[Awesome]

She wasn't kidnapped. She was arrested by the Afghani police in Afghanistan and extradited to the US. There is no evidence of her torture.

Have you seen her face in the leaked photos?

Afghans police... They are nothing but your thugs for hire. And thats the thing you guys effed up so bad in arresting a perfectly normal human being that now America is finding it hard to release her even though there is no evidence against her.

When somebody who used to look like this:


ends up looking like this:


You know she's not having any kind of party in there. Americans have spun stories upon stories. When all the stories about her connections from Khalid Sheikh and to all the terrorist big shots turned out to be fakes then they denied holding her since 2003 and said they arrested her in 2008.

Oh and they story is told very dramatically. The soldiers entered some Afghan facility, saw her in one of the rooms, kept their weapons on the ground to show they come in peace, but as soon as Aafia got the chance she picked up their M4 and opened fire. Someone got inspired a little too much from the movies.

The hole in this new American story is that this so called arrest was made on July 17, but the Daily times wrote the "Grey lady of Bagram" article contemplating shes been held in Bagram for several years, this article was written on July 7. How can someone report her arrest, before the arrest is officially made?

I can bet the article made them jump up and down and they quickly started spinning a new web of lies.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Asim Aquil,

Not a single fact in your entire rant. Ranting and raving about the evil US does not constitute information. Did you even read what ajpirzada said above? What is the point in discussing anything with you if you will only regurgitate your prejudices?

 

[Durran3]

OK, I apologize for calling you an irhabi. I am sorry for that.

Apology accepted, I will not take lightly to being called an Irhabi as i hate Islamic fundees to the core now lets get back to the topic we were discussing.

Your dwelling on the torture BS, though, advances their agenda. Also if you read through this thread you will see that you, and the other posters, never address the facts that I present in my responding posts. You and they just keep hammering your anti-US propaganda without nary a pause to directly answer my responses.

First of all let me be clear again on this, i am NOT Anti-US infact i love the United states, i love Thomas Jefferson and Franklin and i love the Canadian and American constitutions, now that does not mean that i or anyone else that likes the US has to show complete immunity to criticism, I criticize religion and i will criticize countries, i don't believe in immunity to criticism for anything. Your on a Pakistan defense forum not Fox news where criticism of ones country makes them Anti or unpatriotic (if you were an American). I am not like the other hard liners on this forum who will defend anything and everything that will be thrown with regards to their religion or turn a blind eye to real facts and i do recognize my mistakes.

Now i did not put out any comments regarding Dr. Afia's case because i am not that aware of the entire story, i merely responded to your post about the US not being involved in any forms of torture which is not true and discussing torture does not make you Anti-American and i am not advancing anyone's agenda as i could care less about what others think.

Your simple argument is that the US never tortured anyone in Abu Ghraib and never tortured anyone in Guantanamo. You say Humiliation is not a form of torture which i find hard to believe considering its a complete mental break down.

The New York Times, in a report on January 12, 2005, reported testimony suggesting that the following events had taken place at Abu Ghraib:

* Urinating on detainees
* Jumping on detainee's leg (a limb already wounded by gunfire) with such force that it could not thereafter heal properly
* Continuing by pounding detainee's wounded leg with collapsible metal baton
* Pouring phosphoric acid on detainees
* Sodomization of detainees with a baton
* Tying ropes to the detainees' legs or penises and dragging them across the floor.

Are just a few examples, there is ample pictorial and video evidence to back this data up at the same time which I will not put up on this website or advice anyone else do to so as its not representative of the US military or its people in any shape or form what so ever.

Now its not about how Muslims treat prisoners in their countries which I know is insulting and embarrassing to say the least and unlike you. I'll be the first to admit that prisons, torture and the way prisoners in general are treated in Muslim countries or many other undeveloped countries are downright disgusting, humiliating and completely inhumane, BUT the US is not those countries, its a developed nation with proper standards and procedures which weren't being followed back than. No prisoner is or detainee is treated like that in European countries or other developed nations. they don't have places like Guantanamo or secret prison cells around the world, developed nations are not involved in making mountains out of naked chained men and standing on top of them.

I also said at the same time that i don't care if Khalid Sheikh Muhammad was tortured, i am glad he was as he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 civilians but to deny it didn't happen is completely false. Also all Human rights organizations agree that indefinite detention itself is a form of torture many who've been held in prisons and solitary confinement based on no trial, no jury, no judge for years and is a clear violation of national and International Law.

Now all this being said i won't reply to your posts as i want the thread to be relevant to the topic and my discussion is not relevant. We can discuss this on another thread if you so wish