Joint plane engine development by Japan, South Korea, Indonesia and Turkey

[kalu_miah]

Air craft engine is a key technology for any indigenous civilian or military aviation industry. After defeat in WW II, Japan could not continue its engine programs. Today Japan has one engine development program:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/214399-japan-aims-launch-f-3-development-2016-17-a.html

Is it possible that Japan, South Korea, Indonesia and Turkey will cooperate and invest on a joint project to develop a set of engines for both civilian and military air crafts?

South Korea currently has the KFX joint program with Indonesia. Turkey is interested to have some defense cooperation with Japan and already have some joint programs with South Korea.

Since Japan has export restriction, the logical location for this research and development has to be in South Korea.

I am curious to hear people's opinion on this idea. Is it too wacky an idea or is it possible in the future?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

This is a huge maybe

 

[kalu_miah]

This is a huge maybe

I found this:
Indonesian Aerospace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It looks like its only making transport aircraft in collaboration with CASA of Spain:

There is also plan for coop with EADS.

 

[Fsjal]

This would take 10 (or maybe 20) years to develop an effective jet engine. But since this is a collaborative project, it could possibly take them 5 years.

 

[kalu_miah]

This would take 10 (or maybe 20) years to develop an effective jet engine. But since this is a collaborative project, it could possibly take them 5 years.

If Japan decides to participate and if the US allows it, then 5 years is a realistic time frame.

 

[tranquilium]

That is a rather...unique combination of nations for the joint project. If it is just Turkey, South Korea and Japan, it can sorta be argued as a NATO thing. (Though Turkey is more EU oriented while South Korea and Japan are US aligned) But the involvement of Indonesia goes against that because Indonesia is actually Chinese supplied as far as military hardware goes.
As far as technical expertise goes, Japan and South Korea are good in civilian gasoline engines and mediocre at best as far as diesel and military engines are concerned. I am not sure about Turkey, but I do not believe they are very far in military jet engine development. Indonesia, similarly, does not really have any experience in engine development.
Ultimately, however, I believe whether the idea is feasible come down to money. Does Japan, South Korea, Turkey and Indonesia have the cash to throw into engine development? If they do, then there at least exist a possibility for the plan to work, but if they don't, then discussing anything else is just a waste of time. As far as I know, neither South Korea nor Japan are doing well economically in the past decade, Japan is in especially bad shape with a debt to GDP ratio exceed 200%, the highest in the world. Indonesia isn't wealth either. Does someone know how Turkey is doing?

 

[Luffy 500]

Japan's IHI and Mitshubishi already made engines for home made jet trainers and commercial AC. Japanese Aero Engine Corporation , a consortium of IHI, mitshubishi and kawasaki have tons of experience in engine development and these companies already make technologically sensitive engine parts for boeing and airbus. They may also be making parts of F35 engine.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Wow, is it that sophisticated to take four whole countries to develop it?

 

[Cherokee]

Wow, is it that sophisticated to take four whole countries to develop it?

Only a few countries in the world have capability to produce Aircraft engines .

 

[kalu_miah]

Wow, is it that sophisticated to take four whole countries to develop it?

Turbofan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Turbofan engine manufacturers

The turbofan engine market is dominated by General Electric, Rolls-Royce plc and Pratt & Whitney, in order of market share. GE and SNECMA of France have a joint venture, CFM International which, as the 3rd largest manufacturer in terms of market share, fits between Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney. Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney also have a joint venture, International Aero Engines, specializing in engines for the Airbus A320 family, whilst finally, Pratt & Whitney and General Electric have a joint venture, Engine Alliance marketing a range of engines for aircraft such as the Airbus A380.

General Electric

GE Aviation, part of the General Electric Conglomerate, currently has the largest share of the turbofan engine market. Some of their engine models include the CF6 (available on the Boeing 767, Boeing 747, Airbus A330 and more), GE90 (only the Boeing 777) and GEnx (developed for the Boeing 747-8 & Boeing 787 Dreamliner and proposed for the Airbus A350, currently in development) engines. On the military side, GE engines power many U.S. military aircraft, including the F110, powering 80% of the US Air Force's F-16 Fighting Falcons, and the F404 and F414 engines, which power the Navy's F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet. Rolls-Royce and General Electric were jointly developing the F136 engine to power the Joint Strike Fighter, however, due to government budget cuts, the program has been eliminated.

CFM International

CFM International is a joint venture between GE Aircraft Engines and SNECMA of France. They have created the very successful CFM56 series, used on Boeing 737, Airbus A340, and Airbus A320 family aircraft.

Rolls-Royce

Rolls-Royce plc is the second largest manufacturer of turbofans and is most noted for their RB211 and Trent series, as well as their joint venture engines for the Airbus A320 and McDonnell Douglas MD-90 families (IAE V2500 with Pratt & Whitney and others), the Panavia Tornado (Turbo-Union RB199) and the Boeing 717 (BR700). The Rolls-Royce AE 3007, developed by Allison Engine Company before its acquisition by Rolls-Royce, powers several Embraer regional jets. Rolls-Royce Trent 970s were the first engines to power the new Airbus A380. The famous thrust vectoring Pegasus - actually a Bristol Siddeley design taken on by Rolls-Royce when they took over that company - is the primary powerplant of the Harrier "Jump Jet" and its derivatives.

Pratt & Whitney

Pratt & Whitney is third behind GE and Rolls-Royce in market share. The JT9D has the distinction of being chosen by Boeing to power the original Boeing 747 "Jumbo jet". The PW4000 series is the successor to the JT9D, and powers some Airbus A310, Airbus A300, Boeing 747, Boeing 767, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and MD-11 aircraft. The PW4000 is certified for 180-minute ETOPS when used in twinjets. The first family has a 94-inch (2.4 m) fan diameter and is designed to power the Boeing 767, Boeing 747, MD-11, and the Airbus A300. The second family is the 100 inch (2.5 m) fan engine developed specifically for the Airbus A330 twinjet, and the third family has a diameter of 112-inch (2.8 m) designed to power Boeing 777. The Pratt & Whitney F119 and its derivative, the F135, power the United States Air Force's F-22 Raptor and the international F-35 Lightning II, respectively. Rolls-Royce are responsible for the lift fan which will provide the F-35B variants with a STOVL capability. The F100 engine was first used on the F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon. Newer Eagles and Falcons also come with GE F110 as an option, and the two are in competition.

Aviadvigatel

Aviadvigatel (Russian:Авиационный Двиѓател&#1100 is a Russian manufacturer of aircraft engines that succeeded the Soviet Soloviev Design Bureau. The company currently offers[9] several versions of the Aviadvigatel PS-90 engine that powers Ilyushin Il-96-300/400/400T, Tupolev Tu-204, Tu-214 series and the Ilyushin Il-76-MD-90. The company is also developing the new Aviadvigatel PD-14 engine for the new Russian MS-21 airliner.[10]

Ivchenko-Progress

Ivchenko-Progress is the Ukrainian aircraft engine company that succeeded the Soviet Ivchenko Design Bureau. Some of their engine models include Progress D-436 available on the Antonov An-72/74, Yakovlev Yak-42, Beriev Be-200, Antonov An-148 and Tupolev Tu-334 and Progress D-18T that powers two of the world largest airplanes, Antonov An-124 and Antonov An-225.

List of Chinese aircraft engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xi'an Aero-Engine Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...-billion-domestic-jet-engine-plan-xinhua.html

 

[kalu_miah]

That is a rather...unique combination of nations for the joint project. If it is just Turkey, South Korea and Japan, it can sorta be argued as a NATO thing. (Though Turkey is more EU oriented while South Korea and Japan are US aligned) But the involvement of Indonesia goes against that because Indonesia is actually Chinese supplied as far as military hardware goes.
As far as technical expertise goes, Japan and South Korea are good in civilian gasoline engines and mediocre at best as far as diesel and military engines are concerned. I am not sure about Turkey, but I do not believe they are very far in military jet engine development. Indonesia, similarly, does not really have any experience in engine development.
Ultimately, however, I believe whether the idea is feasible come down to money. Does Japan, South Korea, Turkey and Indonesia have the cash to throw into engine development? If they do, then there at least exist a possibility for the plan to work, but if they don't, then discussing anything else is just a waste of time. As far as I know, neither South Korea nor Japan are doing well economically in the past decade, Japan is in especially bad shape with a debt to GDP ratio exceed 200%, the highest in the world. Indonesia isn't wealth either. Does someone know how Turkey is doing?

I tried to pick the countries that have the technology as well as the largest economy other than China/India/Russia in Asia. Japan and South Korea both have tech as well as size of economy, whereas Indonesia and Turkey mainly have size of economy:
List of Asian countries by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

European Union 17,070,011[6]
1 United States 15,653,366
2 China 8,250,241n2
3 Japan 5,984,390
4 Germany 3,366,651
5 France 2,580,423
6 United Kingdom 2,433,779
7 Brazil 2,425,052
8 Italy 1,980,448
9 Russia 1,953,555
10 India 1,946,765
11 Canada 1,770,084
12 Australia 1,542,055
13 Spain 1,340,266
14 Mexico 1,162,891
15 South Korea 1,151,271
16 Indonesia 894,854
17 Turkey 783,064

Together, they have sufficient internal market for civilian and military engine development and a combined budget for these countrys' is well within their means, despite current economic difficulty. Currently all 4 countries have some mutual cooperation projects in defense systems manufacturing and more are being planned.