John Prescott 'says Tony Blair's bloody crusades led to radicalisation of British Muslims'

[Zabaniyah]

Typical apologist

While the Iraq invasion was misguided, being radicalized just because of that is equally misguided. I mean, how old were those little kiddies when the 03 invasion was happening? 5? 6?

 

[flamer84]

The first human on the face of this earth , Adam (pbuh) was a muslim and a prophet in Islam. 1400 years ago God sent His last & final messenger with the final revelation, Quran as a mercy to mankind. All prophets from Adam (pbuh) to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught the same thing i.e worship of the one true God , Allah (swt) alone and follow His commandants in other words Islam.

According to you.Many would disagree,so it can't really be stated as fact.What can be stated as fact is that Islam originated in the 7th century and is a religion 600+ years younger than Christianity.The rest,such as your text is speculative religious dogma.If we want a serious discussion we can't take your text seriously nor claims such as "West was always hostile" because they have no support in proven history.

 

[Husnainshah]

I, for one, would at no cost associate with these Mirpuris in Britain. What's sad is some Englishmen actually defend them. Maybe UK is a bit too liberal for me. I'm all for France as far as dealing with these Mullahs is concerned.

 

[utraash]

Anyone who has a religion and sincerely believes in it would put it above everything else including their country, if that's not the case why even have a religion? Shouldn’t religion and the belief in god trump everything else?

No, motherland is always comes first n religion is second or third priority..... How can you expect religious loyalty from one who can not remain loyal to motherland(not political masters) ?

 

[Luffy 500]

Typical apologist

While the Iraq invasion was misguided, being radicalized just because of that is equally misguided. I mean, how old were those little kiddies when the 03 invasion was happening? 5? 6?

U don't agree that bush & blair's crusade into the muslims world is the primary if not the only reason for current turmoil in the ME? And did they stop after 2003? ME has been in turmoil and western lead invasion for over decades now , not to mention the political suppression of islamic parties (algeria, syria, egypt,libya, jordan,kuwait, UAE........the list goes on) . Western academics with certain level of sanity seem to admit this fact :
"Extremism" does NOT cause terrorism - Islam21c

How does him stating a fact widely acknowledged if not admitted in western academic & policy circles make him an "Typical apologist "?

 

[A1Kaid]

I strongly disagree with Iraq invasion but does that mean I should betray the same country that sheltered and fed me? Typical Labour being apologetic to terrorists, general elections are just around the corner.

Yes but fact is fact, many of Britain's Muslims felt alienated in British society after the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. This gradually led to radicalization, just look at the before and after effect. Not just Britain's Muslims, but moderate and conservative Muslims living in western countries that took part in those invasions as well.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Yes but fact is fact, many of Britain's Muslims felt alienated in British society after the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. This gradually led to radicalization, just look at the before and after effect. Not just Britain's Muslims, but moderate and conservative Muslims living in western countries that took part in those invasions as well.

Iraq war I can understand. But Afghanistan war was a direct result of 9/11. Taliban had the choice to give up Osama Bin Laden yet they refused. So some British Muslims feel alienated over Afghanistan? Yeah right lol, only reason would be if they were big fans of Osama Bin Laden, they are mad their ideal Islamic state of Afghanistan got destroyed.

 

[Zabaniyah]

U don't agree that bush & blair's crusade into the muslims world is the primary if not the only reason for current turmoil in the ME? And did they stop after 2003? ME has been in turmoil and western lead invasion for over decades now , not to mention the political suppression of islamic parties (algeria, syria, egypt,libya, jordan,kuwait, UAE........the list goes on) . Western academics with certain level of sanity seem to admit this fact :
"Extremism" does NOT cause terrorism - Islam21c

How does him stating a fact widely acknowledged if not admitted in western academic & policy circles make him an "Typical apologist "?

That's like saying that British Muslims aren't loyal citizens of Great Britain.

The Americans had no idea as to what they were getting themselves into in Iraq. War and conquest go hand in hand, and they were missing a crucial half of the matter. That is all I can say about them. And as if it did any good for the world.

Maybe there are too many young Muslims with a weak sense of right and wrong. Maybe their faith is weak. Who knows?

I honestly wouldn't depend on what a bunch of Western ex-politicians and academics are saying, no matter how politically correct they may appear.

Bush and Blair are politicians (albeit very controversial). The people who spearheaded those invasions are soldiers. The people radicalizing and recruiting the gullible young people are monsters. There's a difference.

 

[livingdead]

That's like saying that British Muslims aren't loyal citizens of Great Britain.

The Americans had no idea as to what they were getting themselves into in Iraq. War and conquest go hand in hand, and they were missing a crucial half of the matter. That is all I can say about them. And as if it did any good for the world.

Maybe there are too many young Muslims with a weak sense of right and wrong. Maybe their faith is weak. Who knows?

I honestly wouldn't depend on what a bunch of Western ex-politicians and academics are saying, no matter how politically correct they may appear.

Bush and Blair are politicians (albeit very controversial). The people who spearheaded those invasions are soldiers. The people radicalizing and recruiting the gullible young people are monsters. There's a difference.

blair does see things in black and white...good vs evil way.. you would expect a british PM to be better than george bush jr.
Crusade might be putting it too strongly, but both leaders do see that west should have a positive influence over the world and remove barbarity wherever needed. Their bigger mistake is underestimating the effort needed.

Add to that racism outsiders faced here(now much less but still).. you think west is coming after you. That makes you look inward, and probably towards religion.

 

[Zabaniyah]

blair does see things in black and white...good vs evil way.. you would expect a british PM to be better than george bush jr.
Crusade might be putting it too strongly, but both leaders do see that west should have a positive influence over the world and remove barbarity wherever needed. Their bigger mistake is underestimating the effort needed.

Anyone regardless of where they come from can have a positive influence on the world.

Add to that racism outsiders faced here(now much less but still).. you think west is coming after you. That makes you look inward, and probably towards religion.

West coming after me because of racism in the past? lol...

Even if we go by Mr. Prescott's view, where does it leave British Muslims with? In regards to those gullible young people, all I see are Muslim families torn apart, and having no clue as to the horrors and reality of war. Just misery and death for British Muslim society as a whole.

Positive thinking is very important, no matter how ugly reality may appear.

 

[livingdead]

Anyone regardless of where they come from can have a positive influence on the world.



West coming after me because of racism in the past? lol...

Even if we go by Mr. Prescott's view, where does it leave British Muslims with? In regards to those gullible young people, all I see are Muslim families torn apart, and having no clue as to the horrors and reality of war. Just misery and death for British Muslim society as a whole.

Positive thinking is very important, no matter how ugly reality may appear.

you can laugh it away.. or listen to ex radicals... like Majid Nawaz... his own radicalization story is not very different from what is happening in minds of young people..
btw only a few get radicalized among millions.. but feeling of victimhood is felt by majority of muslims..

 

[Luffy 500]

That's like saying that British Muslims aren't loyal citizens of Great Britain.

Definition of loyal is relative. Loyalty has to do with nationalism mostly and in that sense many liberal humanist r also not loyal to UK not to mention the far right US Christians loyalty to Israel.

The Americans had no idea as to what they were getting themselves into in Iraq. War and conquest go hand in hand, and they were missing a crucial half of the matter. That is all I can say about them. And as if it did any good for the world.

What do u think they were there for? Humanitarian mission to establish liberal democrazy or OIL and corporate interest of US MNCs? Not to mention the crusade by christian missionaries and NGOs. They pretty much achieved their corporate objective and now sucking up to iran for more. Bush did mention the word crusade explicitly. Lot of thinking goes behind the speech writing for US presidents and diplomats.

Maybe there are too many young Muslims with a weak sense of right and wrong. Maybe their faith is weak. Who knows?

And its just has to do with faith and not legitimate socio-political grievances? Btw some of this muslims with weak sense r falsely charged and put behind bars for years. Examples r just too numerous.

I honestly wouldn't depend on what a bunch of Western ex-politicians and academics are saying, no matter how politically correct they may appear.

Now calling spade a spade becomes political correctness? U can easily be taken/mistaken as an apologist of bush & blair's crusade. Btw I do think these western politicians r only saying this bcs it may serve their election interest and nothing more.

Bush and Blair are politicians (albeit very controversial). The people who spearheaded those invasions are soldiers. The people radicalizing and recruiting the gullible young people are monsters. There's a difference.

SO westerners in soldiers uniform can slaughter in mass & that's completely fine while gullible muslim youth r somehow the monsters committing a crime? Are u actually espousing western liberal secular neo-colonial notion of right & wrong? Btw do u differentiate between gullible muslim youth fighting in Iraq & syria after decades of socio-political oppression and the gullible western muslim youths?