Kyusuibu Honbu
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That Rajpal guy had it coming.
Stupidity can be fatal sometimes.
Stupidity can be fatal sometimes.
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Secular goons have been very active to write lies about this one, If you live in Lahore, I can actually take you to the family of Ghazi Ilm Deen and lets see what they say?
Allama Iqbal was wrong when he called Ghazi Ilm deen a 'Warrior" ?
C'mon man! give it a break, you won't stop replying me and I won't stop arguing that Pakistan was made for Islam and we are obliged by ALLAH to fulfill our promises by implementing Islamic system.
Now if you consider Allama Iqbal to be nothing, then surely you'll reject my argument, lets see what you have to say about Allama Iqbal.
Give me a source of that original article too because it's far too emotional to be taken seriously.
Iqbal used to write one thing in the morning and completely opposite thing at night. My family knew his son Aftab Iqbal and his family who were estranged from Iqbal.
The truth is that Iqbal had a very wayward past and you might wanna read into his life properly.
As for the Islamic system, why not implement in your personal life first and if the people want to implement it in Pakistan, they can sure do so.
But it won't be done through spreading false information and glorifying individuals like Ilam Din.
I have made my opinion clear on Allama Iqbal, search opinions on him on youtube and you might wanna listen to a youtube video with your favorite Dr Israr Ahmed, Iqbals son and Dr Mehdi.
Iqbal did not create Pakistan, Jinnah did.
"This uneducated young man has surpassed us, the educated ones."
"Assi parhay likhay vekhday raye, tarkhaan da munda baazi le gaya"
IQBAL AND GOD: Theism and the Birth of God in Iqbal's PhilosophyIqbals concept of God passes through three periods of intellectual development. As Professor M. M. Sharif has pointed out, it is almost impossible to draw a clear demarcation between these periods; however, there are certain distinguishing features which help us understand the development of Iqbals idea of God.2 The three periods thus defined are: (1) 1901-1908, (2) 1908-1920, and (3) 1920-1938 (Iqbal died on April 21, 1938). In the first period, Iqbals idea of God is fundamentally Platonic. God is conceived as Eternal Beauty, the universal Idos (Idea or Ideal) of Beauty. This universal is in turn manifested into particulars in various forms, some of which have been revealed and some are yet to be revealed. So, for example, the sun, the moon, the stars are all expressions of this Eternal Beauty which is the source and the essence of these multifarious expressions. These expressions are like a drop in the ocean, a candle in front of the sun, transient and perishable. Just like a candle ceases to burn in the presence of the sun, life of this world of matter ceases to exist in the presence of Eternal Life. The world of matter, which is not co-eternal, is therefore transitory; in fact, the whole of existence becomes transitory. The reply of the famous saint Bayazid Bistami is very suggestive of this attitude:
The question of creation once arose among the disciples of the well-known saint Ba Yazid of Bistam. One of the disciples very pointedly put the common-sense view saying: There was a moment of time when God existed and nothing else existed beside Him. The saints reply was equally pointed: It is just the same now, as it was then.3
Iqbals Platonic stance, though philosophically unoriginal, finds beautiful genuine expression in various early poems of Bang-e-Dara (The Call of the Caravan) reminiscent of Wordsworth and Tennyson.
In the second period (1908-1920), while maintaining its poetic beauty, Iqbals concept of God grows philosophically owing partly to the influence of a few Western thinkers, and provides the foundations for khudi - his philosophy of the self. From 1905-1908 Iqbal comes under the tutelage of the famous neo-Hegelian John McTaggart and James Ward at Cambridge University, during which time, he also studies Jalaluddin Rumi for his thesis at Munich University.4 Under McTaggart, Ward and Rumi initially Iqbal is a thorough-going pantheistic mystic, a claim supported by Iqbal himself. In a letter of 1920 to Iqbal, which McTaggart appears to have written after he had read R. A. Nicholsons English translation of Iqbals Asrar-e-Khudi (The Secrets of the Self), McTaggart remarks:
Have you not changed your position very much? Surely, in the days when we used to talk philosophy together, you were much more of a pantheist and a mystic.5
The fact that Iqbal himself has quoted this letter in his essay on McTaggarts philosophy lends support to his pantheistic mystic position. However, around 1908, Iqbals position begins to change as the idea of personal immortality of McTaggart, the theistic pluralism of Ward and the metaphysical orientation of Rumi impress deeply upon Iqbal turning him into a theistic pluralist himself.6 This impression prepares him for Nietzsche and his will-to-power, Bergson and his elan vital, and Macdougalls social psychology. With Rumi as his spiritual guide, the groundwork for Iqbals deep study of the secrets of the self (initially in the later poems of Bang-e-Dara and then in his magnum opus Asrar-e-Khudi) and later of the mysteries of selflessness (in Rumuz-e-Bekhudi) is laid. The seed of khudi is sown and a most inspiring and comprehensive philosophy of the self is born!7 As Professor Sharif points out:
It is in light of this philosophy that one must understand Iqbals ever-increasing emphasis on the efficiency and eternity of will and his ever-decreasing belief in the eternity of beauty - a change in his attitude which takes him far away from Platonism and pantheistic mysticism.8
Iqbals new philosophy of khudi , self or egohood, is ultimately the foundation of his concept of God. Iqbal argues that khudi is the root of all existence, that the human ego has a central place in the universe while it is at the same time linked with the Ultimate Ego (i.e., God). According to Iqbal:
Throughout the entire gamut of being runs the gradually rising note of egohood until it reaches perfection in man. That is why the Quran declares the Ultimate Ego [i.e., God] to be nearer to man than his own neck-vein.9
Khudi posits a belief in evolution, freedom and possibilities of the self, in the will to power, in the value of super-egos, and in destruction of the old for the creation of the new. Life, in other words, is a forward assimilative movement and this movement, the gradually rising note of egohood passing through various stages to get closer to Reality, is the essence of Reality. This Reality is God - the Ultimate Reality, the Absolute Self, the Supreme Ego. God is no longer Eternal Beauty but rather Eternal Will with an infinite sense of creativity, a sense of which man is a central component. Instead of Platonic emphasis on Gods beauty, the emphasis is now laid on Gods unity and the principle of Tawheed, which gives unity of purpose and strength to individuals, nations and mankind as a whole. The principle of Divine Unity becomes a formative factor for the unity of mankind. Therefore, the approach to God and the progress of the individual human being becomes dependent on his/her relationship to the self, to the family, to the society and ultimately to God. God is to be sought not by begging but on the strength of will. Once found, one is not to annihilate oneself in God but rather to absorb God within oneself; that is, "create in yourselves the attributes of God" as much as one possibly can - a possibility to which there are no limits. If the human ego is able to do this successfully, it will then become worthy of the vicegerency of God - that is, khudi will have reached perfection in man. In the words of the Quran:
The one who causes this [self] to grow in purity has indeed attained success and the one who is negligent of this [self] has indeed utterly failed. (Al-Shams, 91:9-10)
Iqbals concept of God reaches its climax in the third period of intellectual development (1920 till his death), in which he consolidates all the elements of his synthesis and elaborates them into a comprehensive system - a system in which the concept of God, the Ultimate Ego, occupies the supreme position. Iqbals final views on God are, in the main, Quranic. He passes beyond the rationalistic commentaries and the mystical speculations to the original Quranic teachings and describes God first and last as an Ego: His name Allah (swt), as He calls Himself in the Quran, manifests his personal character, and the 112th Surah (or Chapter) of the Quran is a proof of God being an Ego, albeit the Ultimate Ego:
In order to emphasize the individuality of the Ultimate Ego the Quran gives Him the proper name of Allah (swt), and further defines Him as follows: Say: Allah (swt) is One; All things depend on Him; He begetteth not, and He is not begotten; And there is none like unto Him. 10
Before making a Mullah out of Iqbal or making him into an ultra secularist, people should remember that Iqbal's views on God and religion were ever-evolving.
He reached this state where he could place Allah (swt) and his rasool (saw) at such high esteem that he could not but emote such a deliverance - is only after he journeyed through various conceptualizations of God.
Also it should be noted, where he did offer an apparent admiration - it was more of an understanding of where the youngster came from and less of an encouragement to stand up and start stabbing people.
His journey taught him well, and do not kid yourself into thinking that you can start off right from where his ended - you have to start at the beginning as well.
IQBAL AND GOD: Theism and the Birth of God in Iqbal's Philosophy
This part that you're saying and qualifying his state, is practically not possible. Iqbal's philosophical point of views are unquantifiable and cannot be fitted into a box.Agreed Sir, we have to start reading Iqbal from start BUT the thing is, Iqbal ended in a state where he was a staunch supporter of Muslim brotherhood, Islamic revival etc.
We all know Jinnah and Iqbal were pan nationalists at start.
he was still the one that "vekhda raha".
Go search the wikipedia entry, you'll find something VERY VERY similar.
RUBBISH! What else I can say!
I have read Iqbal more than you can even imagine, this is the reason I am arguing with you today..
Agreed, trying to do that BUT at the same time trying to educate the fellow Pakistanis that Islam is the ONLY way, my way is not the Mullah way.
OH, Get a LIFE! Ghazi Ilm Deen Shaheed is still a symbol of glory for Muslims across Pakistan.
Saw that, and in the same video, Dr. Mehdi's lie was exposed, there's no evidence of that, even Sir Javed Iqbal rejected it.
Iqbal was the driving force which brought Quaid back from London to India after he had left with disappointment.
Lets see what Quaid said about Iqbal :
next time, before saying any rubbish about Iqbal, review your statement atleast 100 times, I won't tolerate this thing anymore. I would like to hear this from the Administration that what are the rules if someone speak sh*t about one of the founder of Pakistan.
I think if we start generating medical terms for their mental states and send them to rehabilitation (like mostly happens in west), instead of pronouncing their last names as Muslims, the problem will be solved.
That entry was dubious and has been marked ad such, the entry will be corrected and references asked where required. Emotional articles from some person are not to be taken as the final truth.
His writings were contradictory and changed very often, that is known to many people who have read the length and breathe of his work.
Good for you, but try and read into his life as much as possible from neutral source. Do the same with the history of Pakistan because one sided views are more harmful than lies.
The common man does not even know Ilm Deen and you have proclaimed him to be a symbol of glory.
Well Javed Iqbal remained quite after Dr Mehdi spoke up, if his father, brother, nephew and first son were one then he was too.
Please correct your history, it was Mr Ibrahim Dard of London who persuaded Jinnah to return to India for Pakistan.
In 1936, Jinnah had not completely given up on Indian nationalism, but he was beginning to show signs of change. He had met with Iqbal a number of times in England and they had long been colleagues. But 1936-8 was a period in which Iqbal became Jinnahs self-attested spiritual support. 107 We know little of the ideas
exchanged between them during this crucial period, except for what exists in Iqbals letters to Jinnah, and Jinnahs own comments on them. Tragically, Jinnahs replies are missing, but he did later write that Iqbal had played a very conspicuous part behind the scenes in uniting Muslims in minority and majority provinces. 108 As he
also confessed, Iqbals views (which were at any rate substantially in consonance with his own) had finally led Jinnah to the same conclusions as Iqbal regarding the constitutional problems facing India; and they were later given expression in the united will of Muslim India as adumbrated in the Lahore resolution (the Leagues most famous resolution which demanded Muslim independence).109
At any rate Jinnahs political decisions, his speeches and statements provide ample evidence of the gradual but definite ideological shift from secular-Muslim to simply Muslim, in the Quranic sense of the term. By 1938, this shift would be complete; but it was not a religious change. Jinnah had no theological discussions with anyone, at least not on record. The letters of Iqbal, influential though they were, contain statements not on Islam as a religion, but on Islam as a moral and political force. 110 In the end, Jinnahs conversion would actually come as a result of his political experiences in this period.
Possibly the very first time that Jinnah used the term nation instead of minority was on 12 April 1936, when the League resolved to contest the elections. 111 He remarked that the Muslims needed to organise themselves, to compel the Congress to approach them for cooperation. Then the Muslims could arrive at a settlement with the Hindus as two nations, if not as partners. 112 That this occurs in
1936 is also significant, in that it is the earliest direct indication of Iqbals influence. Both the words nation and partner appear here. Partner is indicative of Jinnahs long-held belief in Indian nationalism, in which Hindus and Muslims were to be politically become one unit. Nation however is a word Jinnah had never used before; and most importantly, he would almost never repeat it over the following three years. In view of the time gap, it is almost as if Jinnah in 1936 was about to test a theory. Were Hindus and Muslims capable of acting as two partners, as he vainly hoped, or was Iqbals theory of two nations about to become an established fact?
What he said remains correct but that fact is that Jinnah was central individual and Iqbal was like many others who can be termed founding fathers of Pakistan.
This glorification of Iqbal was an establishment agenda to promote Islam by selectively using his work. Do remember that many religious scholars were very much against Allama Iqbal once but now he is revered as a 'Maulana'.
What have I said wrong, Iqbals writing was contradictory, that his past was wayward.
Iqbal was and remains a complicated figure, his background has been suppressed and some of his works too.
Also, mind your language, stating the truth is not rubbish.