Jihad unlimited: Does Kashmir need a military response or a political one?

[Joe Shearer]

What are your views on dismissal of sheikh abdullah in 1953?

Ouch.

You really like seeing people in boiling water, don't you?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Separatists don't come from Mars. They are thriving because they have considerable support among common people. What I said is not a quick fix solution, there isn't one. But over time, in 5-10 years if you are able to slowly change the mindset of the people and eat into their support base things may change. Burhan Wani was popular because he ran a propaganda campaign well, we need to do the same thing in the other direction.

Why should we trap our selves in a straight jacket by FIXING a time line

Let it take 100 years ; why the hurry -- we have all the time in the world

Other than Pakistan - no country cares for Kashmir

Pakistan NEEDS a face saving exit from this Kashmir imbroglio

Learn from The Chinese ; they have stabilised Tibet and Xinjiang with brute force

Did the Chinese Govt say a WORD on Kashmir recently

Look at the Russians what they did in Ukraine

Only power matters in this world

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks. I was actually a part of that group when I had FB but I deleted my FB profile a few months ago.



Separatists don't come from Mars. They are thriving because they have considerable support among common people. What I said is not a quick fix solution, there isn't one. But over time, in 5-10 years if you are able to slowly change the mindset of the people and eat into their support base things may change. Burhan Wani was popular because he ran a propaganda campaign well, we need to do the same thing in the other direction.

We also need genuine economic development. Just throwing money at the Kashmiri government and hoping that they will use it properly is a joke that has gone on too long.

 

[Butchcassidy]

Ouch.

You really like seeing people in boiling water, don't you?

was there any truth in the conspiracy allegations?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

We also need genuine economic development. Just throwing money at the Kashmiri government and hoping that they will use it properly is a joke that has gone on too long.

In a Federal structure like INDIA -- all development has to take place
with the state government's cooperation

Why blame Kashmir State government ; UP ; Bihar; NE states ; Bengal
all these state governments are corrupt and inefficient

 

[DesiGuy1403]

Why should we trap our selves in a straight jacket by FIXING a time line

Let it take 100 years ; why the hurry -- we have all the time in the world

Other than Pakistan - no country cares for Kashmir

Pakistan NEEDS a face saving exit from this Kashmir imbroglio

Learn from The Chinese ; they have stabilised Tibet and Xinjiang with brute force

Did the Chinese Govt say a WORD on Kashmir recently

Look at the Russians what they did in Ukraine

Only power matters in this world

Spot on.
The whole world including Pakistan knows what's happening in Kashmir.
No one gives a crap about the self-inflicted religious wounds of these terrorists and their supporters.

India needs to show more might. It should start with Hurriyat, squeeze them so hard that they run away from valley and settle somewhere else.
One of the purposes of having Hurriyat is for them to calm down things in valley and they have failed spectacularly. No reason why the govt should go soft on these fellows anymore.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

was there any truth in the conspiracy allegations?

There was ONE AIM before India in 1953

That was to entrench itself in Kashmir ; dilute Article 370

With that AIM in Mind we took all the steps -- conspiracy or No conspiracy

If Sheikh Abdullah made a Mistake ; his BAD luck

India just absorbed Kashmir after 1953

Everything is FAIR in WAR

 

[Joe Shearer]

was there any truth in the conspiracy allegations?

Conspiracy on which side of the border?

As far as I am concerned, Abdullah considered himself a 'golden boy', sought by the Muslim League, by the Congress, favoured by Nehru, brought out of the Maharaja's prison by Mountbatten acting through Nehru and Patel, and the self-declared soul of Kashmir. His biggest achievement before independence was the radical and extraordinary Naya Kashmir manifesto, which was a stirring document in every way. When the Kashmir situation seemed to be settling down into a quagmire, with neither India nor Pakistan willing to move one step forward, he took it upon himself to build bridges with Pakistan, and did it in a very naive manner, the way things were before (his behaviour reminds me of Suhrawardy, while PM of Pakistan, landing at Dum Dum and turning up for lunch at Firpo's, his favourite watering hole, and also inviting his buddy, a police officer, for lunch - to the buddy's horror). He obviously didn't realise that things had changed, and paid the price.

On the Kashmiri side, childish behaviour and egocentricity.

On the Indian side,well....already some son-of-a-b***h has called me a traitor, a Jayachand. So excuse me; I don't want to get into trouble because I have been honest and transparent.

Look up the story. A. G. Noorani offers the most legally sound view, which loses none of its punch for being so. It is a dismal picture, and humiliating to see. If it happened today, the Supreme Court would have marched across physically and jumped on the perpetrator's balls - collectively.

Just remember; right till the end, till Nehru's death, Abdullah was fond of Nehru, and regretted that Nehru had never understood him or Kashmir. I can imagine Patel looking down at his toes at the thought, and thinking sombrely that Kashmir was not the only issue that his woolly-headed friend never understood.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

If it happened today, the Supreme Court would have marched across physically and jumped on the perpetrator's balls - collectively.

The Supreme court of India has SEVERAL times said that
INDIA's TERRIORIAL integrity is supreme and NON negotiable and all executive action
for doing so is valid ; legal ; tenable and constitutional

That is why SC has UPHELD-- TADA ; POTA ; AFSPA

The SC also struck down IMDT Act because Congress was allowing Bangladeshis
in Assam and severely castigated the govt for the IMDT which was in FAVOUR of illegal migrants

 

[jaunty]

Why should we trap our selves in a straight jacket by FIXING a time line

Let it take 100 years ; why the hurry -- we have all the time in the world

Other than Pakistan - no country cares for Kashmir

Pakistan NEEDS a face saving exit from this Kashmir imbroglio

Learn from The Chinese ; they have stabilised Tibet and Xinjiang with brute force

Did the Chinese Govt say a WORD on Kashmir recently

Look at the Russians what they did in Ukraine

Only power matters in this world

Sure, why just stop there? Let's also ban free press, have just one party ruling the country, no elections (or fake ones), ban international journalists, censor international media, ban fecebook, twitter, google, youtube; have a one child policy, crush any dissent, jail protesters, have just one state controlled news source.... the list goes on. After all China achieved economic prosperity doing all of that. You can't be China in Kashmir and then be India in the rest of the country. India is not China, and it never will be. That ship has sailed many decades ago.

 

[ashok321]

Centre rushes 20 additional CRPF companies to Kashmir:

 

[Hellfire]

Separatists don't come from Mars. They are thriving because they have considerable support among common people. What I said is not a quick fix solution, there isn't one. But over time, in 5-10 years if you are able to slowly change the mindset of the people and eat into their support base things may change. Burhan Wani was popular because he ran a propaganda campaign well, we need to do the same thing in the other direction.

Actually, no. The separatists do not have 'considerable' support. That is the misfortune of India, we tend to shade every thing in the color of separatism. The basic issue for an average Kashmiri remains governance. That the separatists have managed to hijack this and portray the same as a demand for separatism, is the exact thing that we are trying to highlight when we say that the political efforts have to be undertaken by the Indian political class.

Today it is a question of burgeoning population and lack of educational/employment opportunities. What we Indians, and indeed the mainstream media and other self appointed 'experts' fail to highlight is that perhaps the number of deaths in Kashmir annually resulting from police/security forces action may not exceed that of say for example in Bihar or UP or Maharashtra annually. That there is a criminal streak in the basic nature of human being, is something that has to be accepted. However, in case of Kashmir, we fail to discern between legitimate actions in belief of right of self determination, and pure criminal and truant actions.

I will give you the example of Dudi ( a village in Machchal Sector). There was a trend wherein the local young teenage boys would go pelting stones at night on their neighbours houses and the shops in the small village. Invariably, there would be the teenage hormones at work, wherein there would be an involvement of a young girl or of some requirement of earthly goods. This trend would start in wee hours of the morning and was a public nuisance. Since, only a constable was there in the village for law and order, invariably the local RR unit was ultimately contacted and in one particularly nasty episode, a man was injured due to stones being pelted on his house.

This was tried to be portrayed as an anti-India episode by vested interests but nothing came of it. It was purely a matter of law and order. Similar incidents are rampant in Kashmir, the failure of government to tackle it administratively and politically is the reason wherein the above mentioned perception of support for separatists is held. Handwara, considered a hotbed of insurgency has maximum affluent families. They are usually found in high end SUVs and have extensive business ventures. But the condition of roads and infrastructure, is worse than one can possibly imagine.

I can list number of issues here. The basic failure, remains the failure of the governance. One needs to address it, in order to change the perception even in mainland India.

Burhan Wani was allowed to thrive on social media in order to get the maximum intelligence one could get about both over ground workers and under ground workers. And at 20 years, an AK-47 and fawning girls are enough to push the adrenaline. The results are there for all to see. He was liquidated just when the intelligence services, security forces and unified command felt it was time to liquidate him. One has to be clear, he was allowed to remain alive active on internet and social media. The intelligence assets we have in valley, ensured he could be eliminated anytime it was required. Hence, take a look at the clothes he was wearing when he was liquidated.

@Stephen Cohen tagging you on this so that you can understand why I said that letter was stupid by the veteran. This will give you the gist of what I mean.

 

[RepublicOk]

I don't think anybody is saying that the state should abdicate its duty to maintain itself, and to protect people from the law of the wild. What is being said is that our own citizens deserve compassion and kindness, to use the Hon'ble CJI's phrase, even when they are acting less than mature and sensible, and even when they are transgressors of the law of the land.

I was referring to the terrorists who kill our armed forces and are hell bound on driving all Hindus from Kashmir which is historically a Hindu area.. I don't think they deserve mercy unless they surrender and give up arms.. We can live with them, why can't they live with us? Anywhere they are in majority they try to ethnic cleanse the infidels..

As for the non violent separatist we should engage with them politically and try to resolve the issue peacefully.. And loss of civilian lives in the recent protest is regrettable as the dead civilians are our own citizens..

 

[laphroaig]

It needs both.

A political response, backed by a military one.

 

[mirage]

Here is a another point of view.

http://indianexpress.com/article/op...-attack-burhan-wani-kashmir-protests-2918817/

Fifth Column: Every time the Valley explodes, experts emerge to pronounce in ponderous tones that we need to find a ‘political solution’ instead of just a military one.
Written by Tavleen Singh | Updated: July 17, 2016 8:12 am

Nearly every video of Burhan Wani shows him affirming that his fight is for Islam. (Express Photo by Shuaib Masoodi)
Within hours of the attack in Nice, the President of France acknowledged that it was an act of Islamist terror. I consider this an important detail to begin this week’s column with because it is my view that a failure to acknowledge what is really happening in the Kashmir valley is the main reason why we get no closer to finding a political solution. The armed struggle for ‘azaadi’ that began in the last days of 1989, when Yasin Malik and his comrades kidnapped Mehbooba Mufti’s sister, was secular in nature and was a mistaken but sincere attempt to win freedom for Kashmir. This movement was subsumed long ago by jihadi terrorism planned by groups who took their orders from Pakistan’s ISI. These groups fought under the banner of Islam. Nearly every video of Burhan Wani shows him affirming that his fight is for Islam. When he was killed on July 8, the first people to commemorate him as a martyr were Hafiz Saeed and Syed Salahuddin.

Wani belonged to the Hizbul Mujahideen that the ISI formed in the early Nineties with the specific purpose of taking over the ‘azaadi’ movement from the JKLF (Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front). The nature of the movement changed. On Srinagar’s streets suddenly appeared bearded young men who forcibly closed bars, cinemas and video shops. These same fanatics then targeted women who did not cover their faces, and soon emerged zealots like Asiya Andrabi of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, who not only covers her whole face but wears black gloves so that no hint of female flesh is visible. These changes were dramatic and sudden. They did not happen gradually, but to this day, most Indian commentators continue to be in denial mode.


Is it just me or have you noticed that nobody yet links the violence in Kashmir to the worldwide jihad? In Srinagar last summer when I first heard of Burhan Wani, people talked of him with reverence but without mentioning that his fight was not just for ‘azaadi’ but for Islam. Like his Islamist brothers across the Muslim world, his videos show him saying this in clear terms. The thousands who attended his funeral indicate that in death he remains Kashmir’s biggest hero. So has Islamism put down deep, deep roots? If it has, what should we be doing about it? Can we do anything about it if we continue to deny that it is not freedom from India that the Kashmiris now want but their own little Islamic state?

Every time the Valley explodes, experts emerge to pronounce in ponderous tones that we need to find a ‘political solution’ instead of just a military one. Yes. Everyone knows this. What nobody seems to know is what this political solution could be and if it is even possible to think about political solutions when angry, young Kashmiris hate India enough to risk their lives by attacking armed security personnel. Is a political solution possible as long as Pakistan continues to back jihadists? There is no point in pretending that this did not happen again this time. Synchronised attacks on police stations indicate a degree of planning that is well beyond the strategic capacity of school children and angry young men.

What should worry policymakers in Delhi and Srinagar is why Burhan Wani’s message finds such resonance. What should worry the Prime Minister is that two years of his term have gone by without the smallest indication that his government has a new policy to deal with the changed nature of our oldest political problem. Personally I had hoped that Narendra Modi would open a new chapter in Kashmir by making it completely clear that there will never be ‘azaadi’, and that once this is accepted, we can begin to talk of other things.

Far too many young Kashmiris believe, as Burhan Wani did, that all it needs is for them to continue stoning Indian soldiers and security personnel and this will result in independence. This idea is supported from across the border by men like Hafiz Saeed who rave on about how Allah is on their side and so victory is automatic.

Burhan Wani was so important an asset for Pakistan’s jihad against India that his death was brought up at the United Nations last week. He was described by Pakistan’s representative to the UN as a Kashmiri ‘leader’ who was killed by extra-judicial means. This is as absurd as if Tunisia was to claim that the killing of the man who drove that killing machine of a truck in Nice amounts to a human rights violation. Burhan Wani was a jihadi terrorist who in one of his last videos urged ordinary Kashmiris to stay away from soldiers and policemen because ‘we can attack them at any time’. Should there be a military response to this or a political one?

these converted hindu pundits descendants need a zarbe azb type operation as they are longing for it for such a long time !