JFT Supercruise capability ?

[Splurgenxs]

I do not think JF-17 has the structural characteristics to supercruise ....

sustained super cruise weighs heavily on the structural integrity of a plane...and if one needs to make a plane supercruise worthy...the structure needs to be overhauled and redesigned. A PLAne is always Made with super cruise in mind ,u cant just go and make any plane supercruise worthy.

Secondly super cruise requires a hell of a lot of feul ,comparatively and hence reduces the effective range of jets.

THe only utility of super cruise is fast bombing runs.

 

[SQ8]

There is MUCH more to supercruise than just the T:W ratio, particularly careful airflow management by exacting design across all of the airframe.

Take the current JF.. clean(nothing on it) ..take it to 25000.. take it to 100% mil power.. and watch it supercruise.

Give the same JF an operational warload.. and it wont be able to pull it off.

Everything hung on the wings brings with it it's own drag and weight..
Even the EF can only pull it off with an A2A semi recessed load.
only aircraft with clean aerodynamics(everything inside the fuselage so to speak) like the F-22 can pull it off easy.

I do not think JF-17 has the structural characteristics to supercruise ....

sustained super cruise weighs heavily on the structural integrity of a plane...and if one needs to make a plane supercruise worthy...the structure needs to be overhauled and redesigned. A PLAne is always Made with super cruise in mind ,u cant just go and make any plane supercruise worthy.

Secondly super cruise requires a hell of a lot of feul ,comparatively and hence reduces the effective range of jets.

THe only utility of super cruise is fast bombing runs.

The complete Opp actually. ..and you are very very wrong.
supercruise means that the aircraft exceeds supersonic speeds using only military power and no "wet" thrust a.k.a after burner.
A supercruising aircraft will go faster, use less fuel doing it and have a much reduced IR signature at its rear.. and be able to launch A2A weapons with greater K.E.
Super cruising is very very useful and has its utilities.
Moreover.. the aircraft's actual change will have to be its resistance to the heatup at supersonic speeds.
Most aircraft are able to withstand that to a certain degree... starting from the F-4..
the F-22 is not limited in speed by its structure.. but rather by its canopy's integrity.

 

[VCheng]

Take the current JF.. clean(nothing on it) ..take it to 25000.. take it to 100% mil power.. and watch it supercruise....................

Yes, but for how long and to what purpose? Therein lies the problem.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, but for how long and to what purpose? Therein lies the problem.

True.. its not practical for it to supercruise.. after all.. it wont go very far and will only have its gun..
my point was to demonstrate that it can.. just that it wont do any good doing it.

 

[VCheng]

True.. its not practical for it to supercruise.. after all.. it wont go very far and will only have its gun..
my point was to demonstrate that it can.. just that it wont do any good doing it.

Oh I agree with you, it is just that I wanted to specifically point out that any military capability is useless unless it serves a specific purpose, a fact that many people here do not realize.

 

[Haseebullah]

And in the end with the super cruise capability,JFT will lose it's purpose of being COST EFFECTIVE.

 

[Splurgenxs]

supercruise means that the aircraft exceeds supersonic speeds using only military power and no "wet" thrust a.k.a after burner.
A supercruising aircraft will go faster, use less fuel doing it and have a much reduced IR signature at its rear

The positives of SUpercruise ,can only be achieved over longer periods of cruising and that too with specific engagement modes., U need wet thrust to get int super cruise and u cant just turn it on an off just in an instant.

only the TUpolev has manged to minimize fuel cost and increase range due to the character of its operations.I.e straight line bombing runs.

reduced IR signature at its rear.. and be able to launch A2A weapons with greater K.E.

and Jets don't make turns during SC its reins hard on the structural integrity and the Gs, hence the Chance of using it vs other jets is pointless. As for the stealth ,its only works in straight lines.. so bombings yes ,Dogfights or A2A ...not likely.


IF one goes by the flight performance of the best Air superiority fighter the F22 ...the efficiency is reduced by a third when it comes to using super cruise in active engagement modes..

 

[SQ8]

The positives of SUpercruise ,can only be achieved over longer periods of cruising and that too with specific engagement modes., U need wet thrust to get int super cruise and u cant just turn it on an off just in an instant.

only the TUpolev has manged to minimize fuel cost and increase range due to the character of its operations.I.e straight line bombing runs.


and Jets don't make turns during SC its reins hard on the structural integrity and the Gs, hence the Chance of using it vs other jets is pointless. As for the stealth ,its only works in straight lines.. so bombings yes ,Dogfights or A2A ...not likely.


IF one goes by the flight performance of the best Air superiority fighter the F22 ...the efficiency is reduced by a third when it comes to using super cruise in active engagement modes..

Incorrect.. again..
The F-16 does that without a burner.
Also.. one of the earliest aircraft to exceed the speed of sound.. the Nord Gerfaut.. exceeded the sound barrier and stayed supersonic without the use of an afterburner.

The F-22 also has the ability to supercruise with its internal payload without using the afterburner to get supersonic.
Its weapon bay is capable of launching weapons at supersonic speed.. and the airframe is stressed to 9 g's.. regardless of the speed..and using TVC.. it can induce sharp turns at those speeds..although this is very much dependant on the pilots tolerance.

 

[alimobin memon]

man jf17 is designed to withstand mach2 and cruise speed so far is mach 1.4-5 which is subsonic when a plane with afterburner is able to get mach 1.8 why wont if decent engine it cant fly at supercruise it will there is no need to change structure just engine ... with high dry thrust ....

 

[ziaulislam]

i am pretty sure that all diferent kinds of view here are becuase none of us really knows whether thunder can supercruise OR NOT

 

[VCheng]

i am pretty sure that all diferent kinds of view here are becuase none of us really knows whether thunder can supercruise OR NOT

Let me be clear: The JF-17 neither has, nor will it ever have, a militarily useful supercruise capability.

 

[Pakistanisage]

JFT is a Multi Role fighter which means it is can perform different fuctions but does not specialise in doing anything perfectly. Trying to convert JFT into a supercruiser is like designing a pick up truck capable of carrying 3 tons of cargo and run like a sports car. That does not make any sense....

 

[Viper0011.]

JFT is a Multi Role fighter which means it is can perform different fuctions but does not specialise in doing anything perfectly....

I beg to differ a bit with the point above. Multi-role doesn't mean the fighter doesn't specialize in 'anything perfectly'. It just means it can do multiple things or can be configured for multiple things. Don't expect JFT to equate a B1 in bombing capacity due to sheer size when configured for a bombing run BUT, the load it'll or can carry, it'll deliver it just like a real bomber. Similarly, if configured to ATA role, it'll work as an interceptor - interdiction fighter. Saying that it can't do it perfectly means that it may not be able to target opponent air crafts which makes it useless. So multi role shouldn't be confused with the lack of ability.

USAF and USN's future strategy is multi role, even last batches of F 14's that served until the early decades were also configured for multi role. Eagles serving in Afghanistan were also reconfigured for multi role capability. Those days are gone when there used to be very differentiation for interceptors vs. bombers (unless you get into the top tier where B1's, B2's and B 52's etc, which will remain specific for bombing roles). Otherwise, everything is going to be multi role as it is just a different mode of operation in the avionics.

 

[ziaulislam]

i will be pretty happy if someone answer the why, behind JFT being able to do or not do supercruise...

talking about design not allowing it seems not logical to an amateur because the same aircrft can go to supersonic speed using afterburns? so why not without after burns..? only reason to an amateur is lack of engine power,which the current engine seems to address situation?

but what benefit does supercruise has in real combact

 

[Juice]

I do not think JF-17 has the structural characteristics to supercruise ....

sustained super cruise weighs heavily on the structural integrity of a plane...and if one needs to make a plane supercruise worthy...the structure needs to be overhauled and redesigned. A PLAne is always Made with super cruise in mind ,u cant just go and make any plane supercruise worthy.

Secondly super cruise requires a hell of a lot of feul ,comparatively and hence reduces the effective range of jets.

THe only utility of super cruise is fast bombing runs.

Actually "supercruise" is achieved w/o afterburners, so is easier on fuel than a typical jet reaching supersonic with afterburners.