JF17 will be equal to F16 after upgrades

[denel]

I hope PAF gets out of the psyche of making "F-16" as a standard. For non-stealth planes, the standard could be EF,Rafale, Gripen NG, F-18 E/F SH, all of these are top notch fighters. There was also a time when ROSE upgraded Mirages were on par with F-16 Block 15 in capability.

This also indicates that new F-16's are not the cards so PAF wants to bring JF-17 to that standard. This will kill the need for new Block 52+. Having said that, even if today USA lightens its policies, PAF will at once absorb as many F-16's as it can, into its inventory.

It doesnt make sense to have two kinds of aircrafts having same capabilities!

I dont see anything wrong with that approach - they are complimentary roles; where i still see a big challenge is lack of ground attack. with Mirages being taken out which in my opinion is a misuse of the aircraft; my preference would have been to see improvisation on K-8 very similar in mindset we had with Impala ground attack planes which took the brunt of low level missions in angola ops.

 

[Trango Towers]

gentlemen F16 is not only a good fighter but also a psychologically a great weapon. remember how f104 appearing in a battle would make Indians pee. f16 has never lost a dogfight. we even downed Russians during the afghan war. so if we get cheap f16s and upgrade them then why not. at the same time continue evolving jf17.

 

[jamal18]

Near-peer quality (" almost as good as") at substantially lower unit and operational cost might be interesting as this allows for a larger fleet to be maintained. And quantity has a quality of its own.

To quote Stalin......

I dont see anything wrong with that approach; where i still see a big challenge is lack of ground attack. with Mirages being taken out which in my opinion is a misuse of the aircraft; my preference would have been to see improvisation on K-8 very similar in mindset we had with Impala ground attack planes which took the brunt of low level missions in angola ops.

The lack of development of the K-8 is truly mind-boggling. Pakistan, of all countries, needs that to counter a numerically superior enemy. Not even a single seat version so far.

 

[denel]

To quote Stalin......



The lack of development of the K-8 is truly mind-boggling. Pakistan, of all countries, needs that to counter a numerically superior enemy. Not even a single seat version so far.

It shows there is a complete lack of understanding in achieving an overall symetrical approach overall. This offers a very feasible platform of COIN/GA.

 

[jamal18]

It shows there is a complete lack of understanding in achieving an overall symetrical approach overall. This offers a very feasible platform of COIN/GA.

Often this delay is due to financing issues. In this case however there is a large market for a battlefield/coin aircraft. It will essentially finance itself.

 

[Darth Vader]

People complaining about f16
In Pakistan india War scenario
F16 is a relative and potent air craft
Why Pakistan is Still going after old years of infrastructure , experience , availability of spares and numeric advantave with tech advantage

Pakistan is keeping a steady production rate of thunder while adding bonus f16 in same time while saving some
And re invest in 5th gen air craft
If Pakistan holds around 300 4th+ gen birds or 250 4th with around 50 5th gen birds with decent sams systems and network Even with Good numeric advantage india wont do any miss adventure war is not 1on1 battle and no army will like to loss its men and platforms for no reason
Pakistan is a much smaller so the area to defend is also less while india needs more diverse platforms thats what helps pakistan they just need to harden there area and make sure there is no gaps

 

[Penguin]

To quote Stalin......



The lack of development of the K-8 is truly mind-boggling. Pakistan, of all countries, needs that to counter a numerically superior enemy. Not even a single seat version so far.

Armament

• Guns: 1× 23 mm cannon pod (mounted on centreline hardpoint)
• Hardpoints: 5, total capacity 1,000 kg (2,205 lb) external fuel and ordnance:

• 4× under-wing, capacity 250 kg each
• 1× under-fuselage (23 mm cannon pod mount)

• Rockets: 57 mm unguided rocket pods, capacity 24 rounds (2 x pods with 12 rounds each)
• Air-to-air missiles: PL-5, PL-7
• Bombs: 200 kg, 250 kg unguided bomb, BL755 cluster bomb
• Others: 2× 80 gal fuel drop-tanks mounted on outboard under-wing hardpoint

Nice little mud-mover?

 

[The SC]

Not to forget that the JF-17 is a lightweight fighter, if it attains 80% of the medium weight F-16 capabilities, it will be an achievement of its own..add to it the low cost of production and flight hours as well as ease of maintenance..So for a low tier to be close in performance to the high tier, it is quite impressive..

 

[That Guy]

This is SO not true! The USAF is working with LM to further upgrade thousands of the F-16's so that they can be in active service till 2034. These birds will be upgraded (and will have stealthy components, like the F-18 and the F-15 have received). with advance AESA, etc (I'd call the upgrades as the watered down version of the F-35, miniaturized to be used within the F-16's, not all of them but some upgrades for sure).

Did you bother to read my entire comment, or did you just decide to cherry pick?

 

[Signalian]

I dont see anything wrong with that approach - they are complimentary roles; where i still see a big challenge is lack of ground attack. with Mirages being taken out which in my opinion is a misuse of the aircraft; my preference would have been to see improvisation on K-8 very similar in mindset we had with Impala ground attack planes which took the brunt of low level missions in angola ops.

JF-17 and F-16 don't pose any credible threat to IAF, complimenting each other is a very small factor when facing the likes of Rafale,SU30 etc in foreign skies. A different class with different capabilities is the need of the hour, be it stealth or heavy multi role. Rafale is coming across the border, the edge that once PAF held is scarcely seen now.

There is a limit to numbers as well as upgradation of F-16's for PAF. In case of JF-17 numbers isnt an issue but the aircraft still has limitations in upgradations. A stealthy or heavy class will already come with desired upgradations (e.g AESA, IRST, new gen AAM's etc) as default and then can be further enhanced wherever required.

Since you talk about complimenting each other, i think a good example would be F-15's and F-16's of IAF complimenting each other, both different classes of aircrafts.
A stealthy and non-stealthy combo of aircraft can also form a good complementing role, the way USA plans to utilise F-16's and F-15's with F-35 or pair up AESA equipped F-15's with pulse doppler radar equipped F-16's.
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/infrared-search-and-track-systems-and-the-future-of-the-1691441747

If PAF can do the same with AESA equipped JF-17 and PD equipped F-16, it may prove to be a good match for IAF in PAF skies, but in enemy skies a combination of stealthy or heavy multi-role with JF-17 or F-16 will be more desirable.

Another option could be of an aircraft, either JF-17 equipped with AESA and other goodies to control UCAV's armed with A2A missiles or any other stealthy aircraft or heavy aircraft(with big RCS) having mini-AWACS type radars to control 2-4 UCAV's flown in for CAP support against incoming bogies.

K-8 is coming up late for dedicated ground attack ops, much of uniformed life has already been lost on ground in WOT in Pakistan. A dedicated ground attack aircraft can be used in wherever ground forces are operating to save lives of own soldiers. Its a must for every conducted ops in open areas.

 

[Beast]

gentlemen F16 is not only a good fighter but also a psychologically a great weapon. remember how f104 appearing in a battle would make Indians pee. f16 has never lost a dogfight. we even downed Russians during the afghan war. so if we get cheap f16s and upgrade them then why not. at the same time continue evolving jf17.

F-16 with American engines is a security problem when comes to embargo issue. Even your mighty Turkey can't do anything when comes to US engine spares.

JF-17 do not has such issues. Ask yourself this simple question. Chances of US putting arm embargo on Pakistan is higher or China, Russia?

 

[Trango Towers]

F-16 with American engines is a security problem when comes to embargo issue. Even your mighty Turkey can't do anything when comes to US engine spares.

JF-17 do not has such issues. Ask yourself this simple question. Chances of US putting arm embargo on Pakistan is higher or China, Russia?

why don't you people think laterally

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

JF-17 and F-16 don't pose any credible threat to IAF, complimenting each other is a very small factor when facing the likes of Rafale,SU30 etc in foreign skies. A different class with different capabilities is the need of the hour, be it stealth or heavy multi role. Rafale is coming across the border, the edge that once PAF held is scarcely seen now.

There is a limit to numbers as well as upgradation of F-16's for PAF. In case of JF-17 numbers isnt an issue but the aircraft still has limitations in upgradations. A stealthy or heavy class will already come with desired upgradations (e.g AESA, IRST, new gen AAM's etc) as default and then can be further enhanced wherever required.

Since you talk about complimenting each other, i think a good example would be F-15's and F-16's of IAF complimenting each other, both different classes of aircrafts.
A stealthy and non-stealthy combo of aircraft can also form a good complementing role, the way USA plans to utilise F-16's and F-15's with F-35 or pair up AESA equipped F-15's with pulse doppler radar equipped F-16's.
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/infrared-search-and-track-systems-and-the-future-of-the-1691441747

If PAF can do the same with AESA equipped JF-17 and PD equipped F-16, it may prove to be a good match for IAF in PAF skies, but in enemy skies a combination of stealthy or heavy multi-role with JF-17 or F-16 will be more desirable.

Another option could be of an aircraft, either JF-17 equipped with AESA and other goodies to control UCAV's armed with A2A missiles or any other stealthy aircraft or heavy aircraft(with big RCS) having mini-AWACS type radars to control 2-4 UCAV's flown in for CAP support against incoming bogies.

K-8 is coming up late for dedicated ground attack ops, much of uniformed life has already been lost on ground in WOT in Pakistan. A dedicated ground attack aircraft can be used in wherever ground forces are operating to save lives of own soldiers. Its a must for every conducted ops in open areas.

Sir you are very very optimistic if u are thinking about PAF in Indian skies.
I think those days are gone when we could dream about deep counter strikes in India.
PAF of the 21st century is all about defending and fighting within Pakistani airspace.

 

[Super Falcon]

If it is the case PAF now forget F 16 and think of air superiority jet to cobrate with Multirole Thunder in Attack and defence role we need heavy duty fighter

We can get 50 to 60 SU 35 with 5 billions order

 

[Trango Towers]

Sir you are very very optimistic if u are thinking about PAF in Indian skies.
I think those days are gone when we could dream about deep counter strikes in India.
PAF of the 21st century is all about defending and fighting within Pakistani airspace.

Yes PAF will tell you everything.