JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter

[SBD-3]

JF-17x is more of a fanboy project than a real project. China has it's hands full with it's own stealth fighter which might later make its way to PAF, and anyways China itself isn't using JF-17s. Besides, Pakistan does not have the skill and the resources to modify JF-17 into a stealth fighter, even if it's feasible.

I wonder........sometimes I do wonder......Why do posters like you are evermore willing to "grace" us with such "estonishing" comments....Its a pitty, honestly.

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. Hasnain0099, thanks for the polite response and not spamming back. The PAF is not planning on making the JF-17 fully stealth, as you cannot do that. A plane has to be designed for stealth at the time of inception. Rather they are planning on including RCS reducing measures.

In regards to China not buying the JF-17, I will not even get into that. The PAF is planning on inducting 300 JF-17s. This will keep production humming along in Kamra.

Lastly, the PAF is fully aware of what technology it needs to induct in the future, as the Abbottabad raid was an eye opener. They are working with China on a new stealth design.

PAF and Next Generation Stealth Fighter Program J-2X Confirmed ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[Night_Raven]

Why not Pakistan joining with Indonesia and South Korean KFX 5.0 Gen fighter project? I think it will be best option for Pakistan 5.0 Gen fighter.

No way because :

1. South Korea will not allow Pakistan into the project due to its North Korea history.
2. Pakistan currently has no $$$ to support a fifth-gen fighter development program.

 

[ANG]

Hi, the KFX contains western technology. This is a key quote that describes the KFX fighter.

South Korea will fund 60% of the aircraft's development, and expects foreign partners to provide the remaining 40% of the development funding.[5] South Korea possesses 63% of the necessary technology to produce the KF-X, and is therefore seeking cooperation from Indonesian Aerospace, Turkish Aerospace Industries, Saab, Boeing, and Lockheed Martin to develop the KF-X. About 120 KF-Xs would be built initially and more than 130 aircraft would be produced additionally after the first-phase models reach operational capability.[6] The cost of each KF-X aircraft is estimated to be roughly $50 million +.

Do you honestly think the US or any European country would supply that kind of technology to Pakistan? If they did it would be in China that very day. Moreover, given the threat of sanctions, and cost of these projects, Pakistan has no choice but to partner with China.

 

[SBD-3]

No way because :

1. South Korea will not allow Pakistan into the project due to its North Korea history.
2. Pakistan currently has no $$$ to support a fifth-gen fighter development program.

Once again, I have to say....
1- Why would Pakistan ask South Korea for a Conceptual 4.5th Gen aircraft (KFX is expected to be a 4.5th Gen, not 5th Gen, as South Korea is looking for JSF to be their 5th Gen platform.) when it already has a promising Operational 4.5th Gen (J-10B aka FC-20) in its bag? Its not rocket science, a simple logic i guess. Secondly, Turks were also initially interested in KFX but Koreans were not willing to offer significant interest (20% each for Turkey and Indonesia while rest for themselves) which even forced Turks to reconsider. I dont know why Indonesians went in with this while they could have much better options from China and Russia.
2-Pakistan did not had $$$ is an interesting option...Indians are not willing to come out of this dilemma. Perhaps thats why their first response for every Pakistani military procurment comes "from where did they get $$$?".... anyways, enough said..

 

[Battle Axe]

Fine with all that, but will someone refurbish the airframe of Thunder to something more slick. That must must be on top of piriority, if we are looking for any export orders.

 

[Avatar]

I wonder........sometimes I do wonder......Why do posters like you are evermore willing to "grace" us with such "estonishing" comments....Its a pitty, honestly.

Why shoot the messenger for telling the truth sir ?

There are more productive things for you to wonder about.

Besides, I think you mean astonishing.

 

[SBD-3]

Why shoot the messenger for telling the truth sir ?

There are more productive things for you to wonder about.

Besides, I think you mean astonishing.

Look, its not very difficult to realize that JFT will Never become a 5th Gen stealth, because this would require a complete revamp, including frame expansion, which would at least make it a Medium Class fighter, at least, not a JF-17 class one. The other more realistic option discussed to death is that there will be a limited tweaking of the system which could help reducing its radar cross section significantly. i.e. Canted Tails, Reduction of IR signature, RAM, IRST (Subsititution of Radar Sig at short range). E'm not shooting you, but pointing to the fact that this thing has been discussed to "many deaths" in this thread. If you would have gone through the thread, I am sure that you would not have any need to repeat the point.

 

[Korean]

1. South Korea will not allow Pakistan into the project due to its North Korea history.
2. Pakistan currently has no $$$ to support a fifth-gen fighter development program.

Bingo.

Turks were also initially interested in KFX but Koreans were not willing to offer significant interest (20% each for Turkey and Indonesia while rest for themselves) which even forced Turks to reconsider.

Turkey holding rival talks on aircraft with Koreans, Swedes - Hurriyet Daily News

Turkey holding rival talks on aircraft with Koreans, Swedes
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Monday, August 22, 2011
ÜMİT ENGİNSOY

ANKARA – Hürriyet Daily News

Besides an ongoing plan to develop a fighter jet program with the US or Europe, Turkey is seeking to broaden its fleet with a second option. South Korea’s KAI and Sweden’s Saab are the two possible partners, according to a Turkish procurement official. Turkey is supposed to take part in the design of the possible project

And then the Turks came back to the negociating table after shopping around at EADS(Eurofighter 2020) and Saab(P305 5th gen fighter program). Couldn't find a better deal elsewhere.

The final term is 30% share($1.5 billion development funding contribution and 75 jets minimum purchase), take it or leave it because there is another country also in the talks.

I dont know why Indonesians went in with this while they could have much better options from China and Russia.

Well, Indonesia just picked Korean sub over Russian and German/Turkish sub for $1 billion sub deal too, so they must be seeing what you do not see or understand.

 

[SBD-3]

Bingo.



Turkey holding rival talks on aircraft with Koreans, Swedes - Hurriyet Daily News



And then the Turks came back to the negociating table after shopping around at EADS(Eurofighter 2020) and Saab(P305 5th gen fighter program). Couldn't find a better deal elsewhere.

The final term is 30% share($1.5 billion development funding contribution and 75 jets minimum purchase), take it or leave it because there is another country also in the talks.


Well, Indonesia just picked Korean sub over Russian and German/Turkish sub for $1 billion sub deal too, so they must be seeing what you do not see or understand.

1-5th Gen platform for TuAF is JSF, not EDAS EF-2000 or SAAB P305. In fact, SAAB P305 offers the same prospective as of KFX- Both are still on the drawing board. Turkey is also short of options as Turkey has historically been in western bloc, keeping itself distanced from other two possible 5th gen operators i.e. Russia and China. With options crippled, it made perfect sense for Turks to seek fallback options to JSF, which are both practically on drawing boards. So in a way, Turkey made a smart move by using bargaining leverage to force RoK to increase its stake from 20% to 30%.
2-Picking subs doesn't necessarily mean that country will also participate in an aerial platform. Secondly, AFAIK, ROK operates licensed produced Type 209 and Type 214, I am not aware of any indigenous operational design.

 

[houshanghai]

Look, its not very difficult to realize that JFT will Never become a 5th Gen stealth, because this would require a complete revamp, including frame expansion, which would at least make it a Medium Class fighter, at least, not a JF-17 class one. The other more realistic option discussed to death is that there will be a limited tweaking of the system which could help reducing its radar cross section significantly. i.e. Canted Tails, Reduction of IR signature, RAM, IRST (Subsititution of Radar Sig at short range). E'm not shooting you, but pointing to the fact that this thing has been discussed to "many deaths" in this thread. If you would have gone through the thread, I am sure that you would not have any need to repeat the point.

I personally think JFT variant with diamond shape nose in the rumour，which may not JFT BLK2.
Bcz there have important airframe changes in the new PT JFT variant's forward fuselage.So this New JFT variant may need at least 5 prototypes to test like J10B and require a lot of time.

 

[Mani2020]

well in our case buyrs look intrested in this tech .

Its not that simple as you made it lol

In our case most of the buyers of jf-17 are third world countries which are already cash strapped looking for cheap bvr capable variants to replace their ageing/obsolete aircrafts .These are mostly the countries (with the exception of 1 0r 2) which even don't have basic bvr missiles and still alien to many new technologies let alone this latest concept . They will not be willing to pay extra bucks for that besides that they still are not into this sophisticated arena so they will be more willing to buy the basic variant with bvr capability that will be enough for them .

But PAF being the biggest customer can use this technique for themselves only if they are willing to

 

[Mani2020]

The box under SU-30 fuselage is not weapon carriage pod but M-400 side looking radar proposed to Chinese with MK2 version. On topic though, yes there is a proposal for additional payload stealthy pod but it is still a proposal. More details on M-400 below.

NEWS DEVELOPMENTS IN RUSSIA-CHINA MILITARY RELATIONS: A REPORT ON THE AUGUST 19-23 2003 MOSCOW AEROSPACE SALON (MAKS)

nabil i was referring to the boeing f-18 ,about su-30 the picture was originally posted by hasnain and was only quoted by me along with rest of his post

anywayz still thanks for sharing it

 

[SQ8]

Apparently the CGI still attracts.
The JF has limits to redesign and payload increase.
And while its compatible with the PW-F-100.. finding F-100's isnt going to be easy.
There is a small chance of getting anything from the Russians in terms of a Rd-93 upgrade as the Indians have lobbied to set certain limits.

With that in mind, the most one can do to the JF is redesign within weight limits.
A redesign that ends up reducing the payload isnt useful. Adding composites isnt magic either.
Avionics and weapons diversity may be upgraded.. but that is what will be seen in the Block-II..which will be the final variant of the thunder in terms of design.

The JF will never be a stealth fighter as such, and the carriage of weapons such as the SD-10 will give it a considerable RCS at most angles except perhaps the front.

The wish to see a stealth design in Pakistani colors may have to fall to another Chinese design, which may still be on the drawing board.. or perhaps in some conceptual CGI or A4 paper.. which we will not know unless somebody get wind of it.. or it pops up on a Chinese site.

it is best to bury the ideas of the CGi or any Stealth JF-17X,Y or Z.

 

[Korean]

1-5th Gen platform for TuAF is JSF, not EDAS EF-2000 or SAAB P305.

Who says that Turkey wants to have only one 5th gen model in service? Although that's what's likely to happen, since Koreans are sharing engineering for Block 1 model only(Stealth external shape, but no LPI radar and RAM application), and the full stealth rating not achieved by the proprietary Block 2 version(Full stealth with LPI radar and datalink).

I am sure Korean military will upgrade Block 1 into Block 2s, but will most likely not sell this tech to others.

2-Picking subs doesn't necessarily mean that country will also participate in an aerial platform

I was talking about the attractiveness of an arms selling country's offerings.

Secondly, AFAIK, ROK operates licensed produced Type 209 and Type 214, I am not aware of any indigenous operational design.

Supposedly Koreans acquired derivative selling rights when they bought the U-209 from HDW. So what Korea is selling to Indonesia isn't a stock U-209.