JF-17B - EW 'Growler'

[araz]

US was (and is) not bothered, what happens to India, even for a minute. Whatever the outcome, US would be winning.

They want to sell more hardware to India, because India has money. NYT today called majority of the India hardware worthy of junkyard.

I think I am now seeing a different pattern emerging. I think we now need to be really wary of the US and its political and geostrategic allainces. the consequences especially if the Indians do play along with the US could pose difficult problems for paklands. I hope I am wrong and I also hope that the compulsion of a face saving closure of the Afghan misadventure allows us another window where we remain out of harm. I now see 2025 as another cusp in the strategic alliances and their effects on the region. If we make it past that then we have a relatively smoother sailing till the mid 30s.
I think we should be ever so more vigilant and have a keen understanding of the pressures our land is under.
A

 

[batmannow]

I think I am now seeing a different pattern emerging. I think we now need to be really wary of the US and its political and geostrategic allainces. the consequences especially if the Indians do play along with the US could pose difficult problems for paklands. I hope I am wrong and I also hope that the compulsion of a face saving closure of the Afghan misadventure allows us another window where we remain out of harm. I now see 2025 as another cusp in the strategic alliances and their effects on the region. If we make it past that then we have a relatively smoother sailing till the mid 30s.
I think we should be ever so more vigilant and have a keen understanding of the pressures our land is under.
A

Whenever Americans will open up themselves in this region China and Russia will be eggar to see it, and it ill be a automatic reaction while Afghanistan will be a grave yard again for American rambos can trump afoird tht????

 

[araz]

Whenever Americans will open up themselves in this region China and Russia will be eggar to see it, and it ill be a automatic reaction while Afghanistan will be a grave yard again for American rambos can trump afoird tht????

I think you have to see things in perspective. What is the threshold of tolerance for China? What is the threshold for the Red Bear? Does it matter to both if Pak lands take a mauling via the Indian proxy or will they take the opportunity to flex their muscles. So far China has avoided outright confrontation with the US. They are still in the build up phase and their forces need action and readiness for it. They have not had any high level confrontation. So how happy would they be to intervene? What is the cost they are willing to bear with regards to saving Paklands if the US gets directly involved? So in fact there are more questions than there are answers.
At the moment all we can say is that a good step has been Pak lands involving itself in small level production of armaments under licence.This needs to be increased in size as well as dimensions and range. We need to assume that in times of War no one will support us.
A

 

[FuturePAF]

I think you have to see things in perspective. What is the threshold of tolerance for China? What is the threshold for the Red Bear? Does it matter to both if Pak lands take a mauling via the Indian proxy or will they take the opportunity to flex their muscles. So far China has avoided outright confrontation with the US. They are still in the build up phase and their forces need action and readiness for it. They have not had any high level confrontation. So how happy would they be to intervene? What is the cost they are willing to bear with regards to saving Paklands if the US gets directly involved? So in fact there are more questions than there are answers.
At the moment all we can say is that a good step has been Pak lands involving itself in small level production of armaments under licence.This needs to be increased in size as well as dimensions and range. We need to assume that in times of War no one will support us.
A

Pakistan is China's Israel, but now has to make itself China's Germany; central to its future plans and a decent sized economy to defend. That should be Pakistan's goal over the next 15-20 years. CPEC will bring in Chinese Supply chains through Pakistan; such as energy supplies via pipelines. Also Mineral mining and development will also make Pakistan valuable to China and the most important thing: lots of Chinese citizens under threat from Indian attack if the Indians start firing near Pakistani Cities and industrial projects that are funded by Chinese investments.

 

[batmannow]

I think you have to see things in perspective. What is the threshold of tolerance for China? What is the threshold for the Red Bear? Does it matter to both if Pak lands take a mauling via the Indian proxy or will they take the opportunity to flex their muscles. So far China has avoided outright confrontation with the US. They are still in the build up phase and their forces need action and readiness for it. They have not had any high level confrontation. So how happy would they be to intervene? What is the cost they are willing to bear with regards to saving Paklands if the US gets directly involved? So in fact there are more questions than there are answers.
At the moment all we can say is that a good step has been Pak lands involving itself in small level production of armaments under licence.This needs to be increased in size as well as dimensions and range. We need to assume that in times of War no one will support us.
A

Actully china is gradually developing itself for a long slow but strong buildup against America and right now it is more interested to take over spaces which Americans are leaving behind from Pakistan to Afghanistan the untill Philippines, it has succeeded getting key strategic locations?
And if you think they just doing for fun then what can I say, russia is more of the action from sirya to Iraq and then turkey it has taken OUT USA influence systemicly?
If Americans comes backing india, Russia and China will not land their forces against them cause Pakistan doesn't need tht, cause it has a strong battle hardened force itself?
rather RUSSIA and China may come with technological and strategic support which I'll be enough itself?

Let's not ask questions, how PAFs thunders and AWACS been connected WITH CHINESE SATALITE DATA LINK, even pakistans newly build military drones?

And how pakistan knew the israeilies doing what in Indian RAJISTAN? Just a few days back ?

and even tht so called AIR STRIKE was watched by pak GHQ live via Chinese satallite link and India and its allies been fooled with giving late response, things are kept secret rightly so the real enemies can come in The light on the barrel of pak forces, I gss I opened much to you but I can gurntee you Israelis and Americans now they both knows how important is Pakistan for CHINA & RUSSIA this time, and what's been more kept under the cover is far dangerous. Just remember one thing CEPAC isn't just for trade it has a military side too, and for both RUSSIA AND CHINA it's very very important for thier role in the future

 

[araz]

Actully china is gradually developing itself for a long slow but strong buildup against America and right now it is more interested to take over spaces which Americans are leaving behind from Pakistan to Afghanistan the untill Philippines, it has succeeded getting key strategic locations?

Actually there is no dispute with what has been written. However the question asked was what is the threshold at which China will jump into the fray and help out overtly and covertly. That question remains unanswered.

And if you think they just doing for fun then what can I say, russia is more of the action from sirya to Iraq and then turkey it has taken OUT USA influence systemicly?

Again Russia merely acted In Syria. The results there were mixed however I would concede they put their foot down and the US retreated.

If Americans comes backing india, Russia and China will not land their forces against them cause Pakistan doesn't need tht, cause it has a strong battle hardened force itself?
rather RUSSIA and China may come with technological and strategic support which I'll be enough itself?

The US may not enter the fray with its forces but the support would be with arms and ammo. Frankly the US does not care whether the dhotis get burnt or killed. However, if it supplies armaments actively and the Chinese put up pressure from their common border, this would be a serious situation for India. Whether this leads to a Nuke exchange is difficult to determine.

Let's not ask questions, how PAFs thunders and AWACS been connected WITH CHINESE SATALITE DATA LINK, even pakistans newly build military drones?

And how pakistan knew the israeilies doing what in Indian RAJISTAN? Just a few days back ?

and even tht so called AIR STRIKE was watched by pak GHQ live via Chinese satallite link and India and its allies been fooled with giving late response, things are kept secret rightly so the real enemies can come in The light on the barrel of pak forces, I gss I opened much to you but I can gurntee you Israelis and Americans now they both knows how important is Pakistan for CHINA & RUSSIA this time, and what's been more kept under the cover is far dangerous. Just remember one thing CEPAC isn't just for trade it has a military side too, and for both RUSSIA AND CHINA it's very very important for thier role in the future

I do not have any information but if this is the case then so be it. It is good to hear this. However the question is one of thresholds and personally I remian unconvinced RUSSia- China will do much to hel p us other than selling us arms which we cannot buy as we have no money.
A

 

[batmannow]

I do not have any information but if this is the case then so be it. It is good to hear this. However the question is one of thresholds and personally I remian unconvinced RUSSia- China will do much to hel p us other than selling us arms which we cannot buy as we have no money.
A

I gss you are been looking at the thoughts shared by some 2nd levelers think tanks from pakistan or evn indians cause just sticking.with economic conditions wont matters much cause powers like china and russia are more towards strategic positioning more ?
If thy can secure more strategic positions now and in future they can control more economy in the world which will bring them not only money but also power ?
If everything was just about money or economy then JAPAN and germany would be rulling this world instead depending USA for thier defence which , always brings them the bills of american wars which happily pay to anerica ?
And in.the end , what you think talaibans has how much billions of $$$ , and because of tht USA is begging dialoge with them ?

 

[araz]

I gss you are been looking at the thoughts shared by some 2nd levelers think tanks from pakistan or evn indians cause just sticking.with economic conditions wont matters much cause powers like china and russia are more towards strategic positioning more ?
If thy can secure more strategic positions now and in future they can control more economy in the world which will bring them not only money but also power ?
If everything was just about money or economy then JAPAN and germany would be rulling this world instead depending USA for thier defence which , always brings them the bills of american wars which happily pay to anerica ?
And in.the end , what you think talaibans has how much billions of $$$ , and because of tht USA is begging dialoge with them ?

My dear friend my thoughts are my own. So if you think they are second level thoughts, then please continue on with someone of your own calibre. I understand the basics of development of economic power houses. Firstly the role of Russia in this whole game is obscure. Likely they will milk both sides for whatever it is worth if they can. The China Russia Equation remains obscure and till such time it comes out in the open I would not bet on it. you have alluded to the help coming from China but to date;and I stand by my statement;you have not had any substantial help from China during any of your wars. You have alluded to the struggles of the talibans but understandably forgotten the role the terrain has played in their wars and why they have been so successful in the way they fight. For instance they were successful in repulsing the Russians and now the US but had their rear ends handed to them when they openly assaulted the NA strongholds during Mullah Umer 's time. So they are only good when they resort to low level gorilla warfare resorting to attack and disappear taking advantage of the terrain. While they are experts at it, there are other examples of Gurilla warfare which have been hugely successful as well.
However when it comes to pakistan you have to look at the picture holistically within it s military, political and fiancial and geopolitical domains and then arrive at conclusions.
A

 

[batmannow]

My dear friend my thoughts are my own. So if you think they are second level thoughts, then please continue on with someone of your own calibre. I understand the basics of development of economic power houses. Firstly the role of Russia in this whole game is obscure. Likely they will milk both sides for whatever it is worth if they can. The China Russia Equation remains obscure and till such time it comes out in the open I would not bet on it. you have alluded to the help coming from China but to date;and I stand by my statement;you have not had any substantial help from China during any of your wars. You have alluded to the struggles of the talibans but understandably forgotten the role the terrain has played in their wars and why they have been so successful in the way they fight. For instance they were successful in repulsing the Russians and now the US but had their rear ends handed to them when they openly assaulted the NA strongholds during Mullah Umer 's time. So they are only good when they resort to low level gorilla warfare resorting to attack and disappear taking advantage of the terrain. While they are experts at it, there are other examples of Gurilla warfare which have been hugely successful as well.
However when it comes to pakistan you have to look at the picture holistically within it s military, political and fiancial and geopolitical domains and then arrive at conclusions.
A

Friend,
I never Said tht ur thoughts are 2nd leveler but what u were trying to put in was more from the kind of experts we are looking now a days on our or on indian digital media, and Thts all
If u can't see Russias role in sirya and in turkey thn what I can say?
Russia came to rescue sirya when whole world was chanting to take over sirya and the SAUDI +UAE+ISRAELI +EU +US supported and paid mercenaries were inside Damascus and were clamming thier victory against the govt of Asad?
At that time Russia came in, bombed the shyt out of those mercenaries and later cleaned that filth out of sirya?
Then came turkey, which was angry on Russia and had a show down and taken out a Russian fighter jet inside siryan areospace, but after that it was Russia which informed tayyab ordagan of the take over plans of CIA in turkey wasn't that open role of Russia?
While China came and took the islands near phillphines wasn't that open ?
And still that showdown is in red China sea going on?
For Russia and China pakistans CEPAC route has a huge importance and they will protect that with everything they can and that's a very known factor, also there is one point you have forgotten is the usa troops withdrawl in Afghanistan, that has kept Americans at bay and that's the biggest reason they can't just come open to play that strategic game yet, Pakistan has the talent and has the ability to defend itself all it needs is more technical and financial support which is comming from both China and Russia hope you know well on who's engines JF thunders are flying that RD93?
With out Russias help it won't be there wasn't thats open?
Any ways good luck and good day, you have right to voice your oppinions, I have mine thanks for replying back

 

[araz]

Friend,
I never Said tht ur thoughts are 2nd leveler but what u were trying to put in was more from the kind of experts we are looking now a days on our or on indian digital media, and Thts all
If u can't see Russias role in sirya and in turkey thn what I can say?
Russia came to rescue sirya when whole world was chanting to take over sirya and the SAUDI +UAE+ISRAELI +EU +US supported and paid mercenaries were inside Damascus and were clamming thier victory against the govt of Asad?
At that time Russia came in, bombed the shyt out of those mercenaries and later cleaned that filth out of sirya?
Then came turkey, which was angry on Russia and had a show down and taken out a Russian fighter jet inside siryan areospace, but after that it was Russia which informed tayyab ordagan of the take over plans of CIA in turkey wasn't that open role of Russia?
While China came and took the islands near phillphines wasn't that open ?
And still that showdown is in red China sea going on?
For Russia and China pakistans CEPAC route has a huge importance and they will protect that with everything they can and that's a very known factor, also there is one point you have forgotten is the usa troops withdrawl in Afghanistan, that has kept Americans at bay and that's the biggest reason they can't just come open to play that strategic game yet, Pakistan has the talent and has the ability to defend itself all it needs is more technical and financial support which is comming from both China and Russia hope you know well on who's engines JF thunders are flying that RD93?
With out Russias help it won't be there wasn't thats open?
Any ways good luck and good day, you have right to voice your oppinions, I have mine thanks for replying back

Thank you for your contribution.I think there is some misunderstanding with regards to Russian role. Iam specifically talking about Russian role in support of Pakistan which is obscure bordering on non existence.
A

 

[batmannow]

Thank you for your contribution.I think there is some misunderstanding with regards to Russian role. Iam specifically talking about Russian role in support of Pakistan which is obscure bordering on non existence.
A

With regurds to ur concerns, past 3 years Russians have supported pakistan massively, still ppls are wondering how come a JF17 can lock a SU 30 , and what counter avionices been stagged on the thunder platform from the advice of Russians Thts just a hint brother, cold War times are over and nations support nations on the basis of the joint interests and joint threats?
Russians are supporting us and we don't need any other nation to defend ourselves? But if we can get crucial technical support from advance military nations that's wht we are looking for?
Russians Chinese Pakistanis and turkey all been played by CIA and now the answer is given, step by step

 

[LeGenD]

Also, can you tell me what's the offensive range for the systems you mentioned?

According to the Japanese Defense Ministry's acquisition and technology unit, EA-18G Growler's current crop of EW sensors have "a range of several hundred kilometers." The starting point of jamming might be from the 2 x AN/ALQ-218(V)2 pods on the wingtips which are collectively effective up to 926 KM distance in all directions (360 degree azimuthal coverage) - sensor fusion involved. As the aircraft get closer to the intended target, its jamming power continue to increase with different types of jamming gear kicking in until a point comes when the intended target is rendered utterly useless - a large number of targets to be precise. This aircraft can perform lot of functions in one go.

This is what I am able to tell you at present.

 

[MastanKhan]

I gss you are been looking at the thoughts shared by some 2nd levelers think tanks from pakistan or evn indians cause just sticking.with economic conditions wont matters much cause powers like china and russia are more towards strategic positioning more ?
If thy can secure more strategic positions now and in future they can control more economy in the world which will bring them not only money but also power ?
If everything was just about money or economy then JAPAN and germany would be rulling this world instead depending USA for thier defence which , always brings them the bills of american wars which happily pay to anerica ?
And in.the end , what you think talaibans has how much billions of $$$ , and because of tht USA is begging dialoge with them ?

Hi,

This guy can't stop crying about "no money"---. It is just his sob story---. Pak military has gone ahead and ordered 8 submarines & 4 type 054 frigates since this guy has been crying about no money---.

And don't forget the Saab aircraft they got just recently---. Where did those funds come from----?

 

[Signalian]

According to the Japanese Defense Ministry's acquisition and technology unit, EA-18G Growler's current crop of EW sensors have "a range of several hundred kilometers." The starting point of jamming might be from the 2 x AN/ALQ-218(V)2 pods on the wingtips which are collectively effective up to 926 KM distance in all directions (360 degree azimuthal coverage) - sensor fusion involved. As the aircraft get closer to the intended target, its jamming power continue to increase with different types of jamming gear kicking in until a point comes when the intended target is rendered utterly useless - a large number of targets to be precise. This aircraft can perform lot of functions in one go.

This is what I am able to tell you at present.

That's correct and for this reason AESA Radar is just part of jamming process, but AESA doesn't cover full spectrum of Jamming process because:
1. If AESA Radar is jamming, its doing nothing else than jamming at that time. So the usefulness of Radar operation for other modes (scanning, queuing, targeting, locking, firing etc) nullifies.
2.Aircraft can only jam what is infront of it, where the radar is looking, as soon as it changes direction, the jamming process stops and now the aircraft is vulnerable. So for an EW aircraft 360 degrees coverage for jamming is required.

EA-6B has been jamming without employing a Radar in its nose.

 

[batmannow]

I think you have to see things in perspective. What is the threshold of tolerance for China? What is the threshold for the Red Bear? Does it matter to both if Pak lands take a mauling via the Indian proxy or will they take the opportunity to flex their muscles. So far China has avoided outright confrontation with the US. They are still in the build up phase and their forces need action and readiness for it. They have not had any high level confrontation. So how happy would they be to intervene? What is the cost they are willing to bear with regards to saving Paklands if the US gets directly involved? So in fact there are more questions than there are answers.
At the moment all we can say is that a good step has been Pak lands involving itself in small level production of armaments under licence.This needs to be increased in size as well as dimensions and range. We need to assume that in times of War no one will support us.
A

For sure we assume, no one ill come to help if we stick our horns with India, untill it's a clear sign, we maybe getting down and if tht time comes then, it all ill be the strategic interests, what u think, China ill keep watching india taking control of pak lands NOOOOOOO
thy are silent because thy think, we hve the capacity and capability to defend ourselves badly structured Indian military thus, thy don't need to help us and leme tell u one more thing once u have strategic importance and relationships then powers move on other levels best examples can be seen in SIRYA and just NOW VENEZUELA?
In both cases those countries doesn't have much to offer in cash, then why Russia went full throttle to back them military and economically????
Same equation was been there in VIETNAM, what Vietnam could hve offered chinese and Russians at the time war with USA?
how much, cash thy had for buying the basic millitary hardware???
It was all millitary strategic alliances which came to existence in the hour of the need.
If pakistan been attacked india and plus some others then, we can clearly see China and Russia will jump in to gain strategical advantage?
So dear, brother
I gss, u hve a lot of educational back ground but still you lack military mind