JF-17 vs Rafale: Why Pakistani JF-17 Thunder Poses A Serious Threat To Indian Rafale Fighter Jets?

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Before it was God's gift to Aviation aka SU-30”MKI”, with Israeli and bharti avionics and russkie power!

The “Bison” & Mirages with Spectra?

Now its Rafale puja.. per phir bhi thook k nikal jai ga duja aka Pakistan.

 

[R Wing]

When strong , pretend you are weak. When you are weak , pretend to be strong.

Sun Tzu.

"Do the exact opposite of what Sun Tzu, legendary strategist, advises."
-BJP fanboys

 

[Tumba]

Every weapon system is threat that is for what they are created.

Regarding one on one JF-16 BLK3 as per pakistani sources-- online I must say and
Rafale Indian version I dont see parity. But again plenty more variables will come to play when one of them will
lock and fire BVR/IR missiles on other.

F-16 BLK52 I will still rate much higher than BLK3 even if armed with PL-15 and AESA,
as BLK3 radar dont do justice with PL-15, even the AESA radar itself advertised can not be powered
continuously with the engine it has.
ECM nobody knows how effective they can be one of the recent exercises between J-11 and Gripen in Thailand has shown all BVR hits were done by Gripen, in WVR J-11 reversed the play but still ECM didnt do anything as pakistan posters claim it to be.

 

[CONNAN]

Before starting dont call me name's little drunk and pissed off with the things just pure professional discussion please

few answered question's in my mind why Our Intel agencies should be worried when they are downplaying JF17 out right . are we missing something.
both the countries are free from sanction's since 2001 so 20 years we are not able to find any long-term solution to counter our adversaries at the border.
every freaking deal is a knee jerk reaction by both army and IAF 11 years in this and 20 year in another forum I have never seen or read any clear goals related to these to branches of armed forces . O well some thins never change in the subcontinent back to lurking mode

 

[Tumba]

Before starting dont call me name's little drunk and pissed off with the things just pure professional discussion please

few answered question's in my mind why Our Intel agencies should be worried when they are downplaying JF17 out right . are we missing something.
both the countries are free from sanction's since 2001 so 20 years we are not able to find any long-term solution to counter our adversaries at the border.
every freaking deal is a knee jerk reaction by both army and IAF 11 years in this and 20 year in another form I have never seen or read any clear goals related to these to branches of armed forces . O well some thins never change in the subcontinent back to lurking mode

PAF can only afford Jf-17 and as PR sensitive their military is if they continue buying it, it must be shown as it was advertised that is on par with F-16.

JF-17 lacks raw engine power which are required for agility any closing BVR/IR missiles will surely love it.
So Jf-17 will have to always fly in cover of F-16 and thats how PAF has strategies its use. A bomb truck which can support strike operations.
Is it good enough to replace Mirage-3/5 and F-7 hell yaa a generation ahead but will it ever replace F-16 no chance in hell, once F-16s are replaced with some advance Euro or Chinese fighter Jf-17 will also play the side kick.

 

[Mrc]

It ij not a good laraku veman at all

 

[CONNAN]

PAF can only afford Jf-17 and as PR sensitive their military is if they continue buying it, it must be shown as it was advertised that is on par with F-16.

JF-17 lacks raw engine power which are required for agility any closing BVR/IR missiles will surely love it.
So Jf-17 will have to always fly in cover of F-16 and thats how PAF has strategies its use. A bomb truck which can support strike operations.
Is it good enough to replace Mirage-3/5 and F-7 hell yaa a generation ahead but will it ever replace F-16 no chance in hell, once F-16s are replaced with some advance Euro or Chinese fighter Jf-17 will also play the side kick.

Agreed Tumba

But we never had or planned to have clear goal from IAF or IA . what happening on our side arms deals and purchases being made based on knee jerk reactions. even today we cannot match china's manufacturing might

when the talk about PL 15 or any other AAM either we downplay it or go for knee jerk purchases that how we got caught off-guard . RD 33 is still a capable engine , unlike us most of the Pakistani defense deal's are under the radar.

example: sale of Kornet-E Anti-Tank Guided Missiles in 2017 it is a huge threat to our Tank force , there are no counter measures to it as of now for IA

there are lot of negotiations going on with Italian and European firms for JF 17 upgrade ( I know you will be laughing at me , but it only a matter of time) . leaving JF17 aside why should we bank on downplaying enemy rather than a proper long term goal

 

[alee92nawaz]

Dont worry JF-17 is nothing but a glorified Mig 21. IAF will simply rule the skies with rafales.

Haha have you retired the mighty SU-30mki ?

 

[pakpride00090]

Every weapon system is threat that is for what they are created.

Regarding one on one JF-16 BLK3 as per pakistani sources-- online I must say and
Rafale Indian version I dont see parity. But again plenty more variables will come to play when one of them will
lock and fire BVR/IR missiles on other.

F-16 BLK52 I will still rate much higher than BLK3 even if armed with PL-15 and AESA,
as BLK3 radar dont do justice with PL-15, even the AESA radar itself advertised can not be powered
continuously with the engine it has.
ECM nobody knows how effective they can be one of the recent exercises between J-11 and Gripen in Thailand has shown all BVR hits were done by Gripen, in WVR J-11 reversed the play but still ECM didnt do anything as pakistan posters claim it to be.

Before starting dont call me name's little drunk and pissed off with the things just pure professional discussion please

few answered question's in my mind why Our Intel agencies should be worried when they are downplaying JF17 out right . are we missing something.
both the countries are free from sanction's since 2001 so 20 years we are not able to find any long-term solution to counter our adversaries at the border.
every freaking deal is a knee jerk reaction by both army and IAF 11 years in this and 20 year in another forum I have never seen or read any clear goals related to these to branches of armed forces . O well some thins never change in the subcontinent back to lurking mode

Jf-17 is a slightly improved copy of Mig21 bison...

Indians don't need to worry. They have Su30 , rafales and Tejas.

 

[IceCold]

Haha have you retired the mighty SU-30mki ?

After 27th February SU-30 fell from the Indian grace.

 

[Esgalduin]

PAF can only afford Jf-17 and as PR sensitive their military is if they continue buying it, it must be shown as it was advertised that is on par with F-16.

JF-17 lacks raw engine power which are required for agility any closing BVR/IR missiles will surely love it.
So Jf-17 will have to always fly in cover of F-16 and thats how PAF has strategies its use. A bomb truck which can support strike operations.
Is it good enough to replace Mirage-3/5 and F-7 hell yaa a generation ahead but will it ever replace F-16 no chance in hell, once F-16s are replaced with some advance Euro or Chinese fighter Jf-17 will also play the side kick.

You are correct with regards to JF-17 being (relatively) under-powered, but assuming that the future of aerial skirmishes in the Subcontinent lies entirely in the BVR domain, I don't see how that variable can't be offset by other variables such as swarm tactics, diversions, and radar jamming. Now I understand that the Rafale's powerful radar and Meteor missile would enable it to fire upon Pakistani targets while staying within Indian airspace, and it could pick off targets in Pakistani airspace based on data-link with Sukhois or Migs. If these front-line fighters encounter radar jamming a la 27th Feb, the Rafale would have a reduced battlefield picture at best.
The JF-17's maneuverability is its limiting factor but if its PL-15s and AESA radar can enable it to declare Fox 3 before the Rafale gets a shot off, then I don't see why JF-17s wouldn't stay behind the F16s.

In summation, assuming Pakistan aggressively jams the radars of Indian interceptors flying CAPs by the border, and if the F16s maintain closer proximity to their side of the border to deal with the Sukhois and Migs, the JF17s could (theoretically) be positioned further back and in larger numbers to deal with the advanced BVR capabilities of the Rafale. So you are correct in stating that until the JF17's airframe and engine are on par with the Block 52 F16s, the Vipers will occupy a niche of their own. But all of this is just a hypothetical scenario based on my opinions: one that does not take into account how India's supposedly revised post-Balakot aerial warfare doctrine will pan out.

 

[Tumba]

Agreed Tumba

But we never had or planned to have clear goal from IAF or IA . what happening on our side arms deals and purchases being made based on knee jerk reactions. even today we cannot match china's manufacturing might

when the talk about PL 15 or any other AAM either we downplay it or go for knee jerk purchases that how we got caught off-guard . RD 33 is still a capable engine , unlike us most of the Pakistani defense deal's are under the radar.

example: sale of Kornet-E Anti-Tank Guided Missiles in 2017 it is a huge threat to our Tank force , there are no counter measures to it as of now for IA

there are lot of negotiations going on with Italian and European firms for JF 17 upgrade ( I know you will be laughing at me , but it only a matter of time) . leaving JF17 aside why should we bank on downplaying enemy rather than a proper long term goal

not every weapon needs to be countered some weapons well we have to take the hit.
And India has plenty of men ready to sacrifice life for nation, India can sacrifice 10 million and can replace them with ease.
So we have numbers rest once we take hit we can still push forth enemy lines.
Thats how our strategy is developed.

Only weapons you are seeing coming online is because 60-70s era soviet weapons needs replacement none is bought because we need to counter some enemy systems.
This is how it goes in demoCrazies like India.

You are correct with regards to JF-17 being (relatively) under-powered, but assuming that the future of aerial skirmishes in the Subcontinent lies entirely in the BVR domain, I don't see how that variable can't be offset by other variables such as swarm tactics, diversions, and radar jamming. Now I understand that the Rafale's powerful radar and Meteor missile would enable it to fire upon Pakistani targets while staying within Indian airspace, and it could pick off targets in Pakistani airspace based on data-link with Sukhois or Migs. If these front-line fighters encounter radar jamming a la 27th Feb, the Rafale would have a reduced battlefield picture at best.
The JF-17's maneuverability is its limiting factor but if its PL-15s and AESA radar can enable it to declare Fox 3 before the Rafale gets a shot off, then I don't see why JF-17s wouldn't stay behind the F16s.

In summation, assuming Pakistan aggressively jams the radars of Indian interceptors flying CAPs by the border, and if the F16s maintain closer proximity to their side of the border to deal with the Sukhois and Migs, the JF17s could (theoretically) be positioned further back and in larger numbers to deal with the advanced BVR capabilities of the Rafale. So you are correct in stating that until the JF17's airframe and engine are on par with the Block 52 F16s, the Vipers will occupy a niche of their own. But all of this is just a hypothetical scenario based on my opinions: one that does not take into account how India's supposedly revised post-Balakot aerial warfare doctrine will pan out.

correct if all variables fit as per plan and IAF reaction Jf-17 can take shot on Rafale.

Regarding IAF aerial warfare doctrine ... any similar situation like 27 Feb will be taken as war with no ROE in place. So any fast moving jets will be fired first using longer range BVRs from both Rafale and MKI..
Meteor, R-27ER.
So PAF has to fly low and then climb near contested are at once to either fire A2G or A2A weapons, pretty risky.
Ideally cruise missiles should be fired.

 

[mdmm]

Different voices are coming from different sources in this forum.
What is professional conclusion ( only Airforce tech) .. Can Pakistan defend its air against Indian jet fighters ( Sukhoi,Mig,Rafale,Teja) by using JF17 Blok3 ??

 

[Trichy]

Belgian defense : Air combat capability program page 216

PAC JF-17 Thunder (CAC FC-1 Xiaolong) Multi-role Fighter

 

[alphapak]

Modi's next excuse would be If India had the F22 Raptor outcome would be different.