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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

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A naïve question concerning cost:

1. How much J 17 and F 16 cost in USD for per hour flight in peacetime/training scenario and
2. How much men hour /sortie will be needed to ready the F17/f16.
3. How much maintenance cost will incur annually for JF 17

Thanks in advance

This info will show how much it cost to operate airforces....
 
I know the exercises are plain stupid and out dated. However, what i mean is , JF-17 is a much more expensive asset to be used for such a light weight weapon. If we get the GB-6 (as revealed at Zhuhai) we can have a CBU-105 type of our own. Bomblets are key to destroying the enemy armor/troop formations. If we can get a weapon that is akin to glid weapons, but disperses many bomblets from 30-60 km away and decent height, then yes, JF-17 is good enough to be used.

Hijara anti-armour bomb is in service with PAF.
 
Yes and No. Yes because you might need the power to take out high value battlefield targets quickly(which is why the Brimstone is there on the Tornado and the Hellfire arms many light attack jets).. but No because the Air Defence around an Indian battlegroup may be too hostile for such close in strikes.. and off course.. one by one attacks.

What is needed is a weapon by which multiple targets can be attacked at once. India has that in the CBU-105. Whose significance is lost upon most here in its deadly ability to essentially guarantee the devastation an entire Pakistani column from 25000ft and 20 km away.. well beyond the ranges of the only air defence missile kept by our short sighted brass.. the Anza.

Currently on the Mig-27 can carry that weapon but it will soon be operational with the MKIs and with a Future MMRCA(if and when it comes in). There is NOTHING comparable in Pakistan arsenal and the very nice exersize demonstrations we see of F-7's strafing or mirages bombing right over the target popping out a few flares now and then are a stark difference from what will happen in a shooting conflict.. where chances are that except the F-16s..and some Mirage...most of Pakistani Close air support will be shot down before it even reaches the troops.

Is cluster ammunition legal?
 
As I said, Pakistan has no weapon that is equivalent of it which is the actual need of the hour.

Well @Oscar; just going by what I keep reading here on PDF, is'nt the "much touted" tactical Nuclear Weapons intended to just that? To stop any mechanized thrust right in its tracks.
Then what else would one need, after that "silver bullet"?
 
Well @Oscar; just going by what I keep reading here on PDF, is'nt the "much touted" tactical Nuclear Weapons intended to just that? To stop any mechanized thrust right in its tracks.
Then what else would one need, after that "silver bullet"?

Silver bullet is for Rajasthan/Thar desert region. In Kashmir and Punjab sectors, you would be naive to think tactical NW would be used there
 
Silver bullet is for Rajasthan/Thar desert region. In Kashmir and Punjab sectors, you would be naive to think tactical NW would be used there

Accha? Different Bullets for different places? Sindhis are more easily expendable then....and the "Silver Bullet" is not so "Silver" then.
But what if the "HIT" comes in Punjab and Kashmir as well as in Sindh and Rajasthan?
 
Accha? Different Bullets for different places? Sindhis are more easily expendable then....and the "Silver Bullet" is not so "Silver" then.
But what if the "HIT" comes in Punjab and Kashmir as well as in Sindh and Rajasthan?

. The corps that would execute cold start, are they based in Rajasthan or in Punjab or Kashmir sector ? and google maps would confirm the thar/rajasthan desert is uninhibited, sindhis live far beyond the desert.

Golden bullets are for if Punjab or Kashmir is over-run by IA.

It's all simple, you just need to expand the horizon of your critical thinking
 
Well @Oscar; just going by what I keep reading here on PDF, is'nt the "much touted" tactical Nuclear Weapons intended to just that? To stop any mechanized thrust right in its tracks.
Then what else would one need, after that "silver bullet"?

Yes, it is a silver bullet. But that silver bullet is the last resort... I wrote a long discourse on how essentially that silver bullet's utility comes down to more human and psychological calculations.. that essentially has kept us from conflict for the past 20 years or so. Too tired to repeat it again.

Point being, the nuclear weapons do not fall under the usage of conventional warfare and the conventional warfare side of "minimum" deterrence requires more than flying into a SAM barrage with cluster weapons.
 
rd-93_main_.jpg

Air Platforms
Airshow China 2014: Russia to supply China with more RD-93 turbofans
Nikolai Novichkov, Zhuhai, China - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
17 November 2014

An RD-93 engine at Airshow China 2014. Source: Nikolai Novichkov
Russia is to supply China with an additional batch of 100 Klimov RD-93 turbofan engines for the FC-1/JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft before the end of 2016, officials said at Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai.

The contract, signed between Rosoboronexport and Chinese officials, follows an original USD238 million contract for 100 engines concluded in 2005 and completed in 2010.

A joint venture between China and Pakistan, the JF-17 is currently only in Pakistan Air Force service.
The first contract for 100 RD-93s had an option for 400 more, which will be produced by Moscow-based machine-building plant Chernyshev, a division of the United Engines Corporation (UEC).

At Airshow China a high-ranking official in the Russian deputation confirmed that the fifth-generation Shenyang J-31/FC-31 is also equipped with the RD-93.

A UEC official also told IHS Jane's that the Russian company and the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) had signed an agreement to upgrade the RD-93. The agreement "comprises consecutive modernisation of the propulsion system in the area of increasing thrust and the arranging of the turbofans shipments to China", said the UEC official.

He did not specify when China would start to receive the upgraded RD-93. Under UEC's existing contract with CATIC the Russian company is to perform deliveries, designer supervision, maintenance, refurbishment, and assistance in organising the RD-93 overhaul for basic and export FC-1/JF-17 fighters.
 
A naïve question concerning cost:

1. How much J 17 and F 16 cost in USD for per hour flight in peacetime/training scenario and
2. How much men hour /sortie will be needed to ready the F17/f16.
3. How much maintenance cost will incur annually for JF 17

Thanks in advance

This info will show how much it cost to operate airforces....
https://i.imgur.com/cPLfWDB.jpg
 
View attachment 154040
Air Platforms
Airshow China 2014: Russia to supply China with more RD-93 turbofans
Nikolai Novichkov, Zhuhai, China - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
17 November 2014

An RD-93 engine at Airshow China 2014. Source: Nikolai Novichkov
Russia is to supply China with an additional batch of 100 Klimov RD-93 turbofan engines for the FC-1/JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft before the end of 2016, officials said at Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai.

The contract, signed between Rosoboronexport and Chinese officials, follows an original USD238 million contract for 100 engines concluded in 2005 and completed in 2010.

A joint venture between China and Pakistan, the JF-17 is currently only in Pakistan Air Force service.
The first contract for 100 RD-93s had an option for 400 more, which will be produced by Moscow-based machine-building plant Chernyshev, a division of the United Engines Corporation (UEC).

At Airshow China a high-ranking official in the Russian deputation confirmed that the fifth-generation Shenyang J-31/FC-31 is also equipped with the RD-93.

A UEC official also told IHS Jane's that the Russian company and the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) had signed an agreement to upgrade the RD-93. The agreement "comprises consecutive modernisation of the propulsion system in the area of increasing thrust and the arranging of the turbofans shipments to China", said the UEC official.

He did not specify when China would start to receive the upgraded RD-93. Under UEC's existing contract with CATIC the Russian company is to perform deliveries, designer supervision, maintenance, refurbishment, and assistance in organising the RD-93 overhaul for basic and export FC-1/JF-17 fighters.

So would be it safe to assume that 100 more JF-17s are planned beyond the current two 50 aircraft batch?

I guess the order for J-31 would be separate...
 
Yes, it is a silver bullet. But that silver bullet is the last resort... I wrote a long discourse on how essentially that silver bullet's utility comes down to more human and psychological calculations.. that essentially has kept us from conflict for the past 20 years or so. Too tired to repeat it again.

Point being, the nuclear weapons do not fall under the usage of conventional warfare and the conventional warfare side of "minimum" deterrence requires more than flying into a SAM barrage with cluster weapons.

@Oscar; I do agree with your points. As a matter of fact; I am convinced that TNW are weapons of doubtful utility, in Conventional Warfare, just as NW are of dubious utility to prevent conflict. All that they will do is to prevent Nuclear War........keeping in mind that conflicts can be fought in various ways.
 
Pakistan Continues JF-17 Upgrades, Possible Interest in FC-31 Emerges

Nov. 18, 2014 - 06:45PM | By USMAN ANSARI


ISLAMABAD — Pakistan continues to proceed with improvements to its JF-17 Thunder jet fighter program, but the recent Zhuhai air show also revealed possible longer term ambitions to acquire stealth aircraft, namely the Shenyang FC-31.

According to Pakistan officials at Zhuhai, progress is being made to improve the JF-17’s avionics and software, and to fix a probe.

Kaiser Tufail, analyst, author and former air commodore, said these upgrades may not require the aircraft to be sent back to the factory at Pakistani Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, but could be handled locally at unit level.
“As flight trials with different weapons are getting completed, it is time for hardware and software upgrades. I am not sure if these would be done at unit level or factory level; perhaps the former.”

Though the upgrades are not a radical departure from the Block I standard, Tufail nevertheless has “no doubt that they would improve the operational readiness considerably” for the Air Force.

What the future holds for the fighter is uncertain as details of a Block III variant have not been revealed, and Tufail says at present “no one seems willing to talk about them.”

Similarly, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said only reasonable speculation can made at present.

“Block-III is conceptual right now but most likely will see an AESA radar, HMD [helmet-mounted display] and some other avionics improvements. I am not sure if the airframe will be further modified for RCS [radar cross-section] reduction or airframe life enhancements. We just have to wait and see,” he said.

The perennial question regarding the JF-17, however, is its hitherto lack of export orders. Shabbir highlights the disruption facing the fighter’s most likely customers, but is still optimistic.

“Many of the countries that are probable JF-17 buyers have had political or financial turmoil but it is highly likely that an order will be won in 2015.”

Nevertheless, Pakistan revealed that a squadron of 18 JF-17s recently took part in a major exercise in western China, which marks the type’s first large-scale deployment.

Meanwhile, although Pakistan’s apparent interest in the FC-31 has caused a stir, Tufail maintains such an aircraft is not required.

“It seems to be a knee-jerk statement without much substance at this point in time,” he said.

“While stealth capability is welcome, the long-range capability that goes with this aircraft may be an overkill for an Air Force that is configured primarily for tactical air support to surface forces,” he said.

“Besides, a concerted strategic bombing campaign to decimate the enemy’s war-fighting capability needs months to achieve results. That option is a non-starter for nuclear-armed belligerents, as much as it is for the rest of the world, which can’t sit back and watch the dangerous escalation,” he added.

“So, I stick to my previously professed contention that it is tactical fighters that we need first and foremost. Two dozen or so stealth fighters seems more of a ‘fashion’ statement.”

He also highlights a perennial concern for Pakistan that may rule out the FC-31; “Who has got the money? Not Pakistan.”

Whether a Pakistani order for the FC-31 will materialize is unclear, though there will be an eventual need to replace the F-16, which is Pakistan’s most potent front-line combat aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Australian defense attaché to Pakistan, Brian Cloughley, said the FC-31 is a likely candidate, but perhaps not for some time.

“It’s being described in some quarters as an export machine, but that is bound to take a long, long time.

Certainly there will have to be some sort of replacement for the F-16s, and it won’t be European or Russian, for obvious reasons, so it must be China,” he said.

“I think we can bet on the FC-31.” ■

Email: uansari@defensenews.com.
 
. The corps that would execute cold start, are they based in Rajasthan or in Punjab or Kashmir sector ? and google maps would confirm the thar/rajasthan desert is uninhibited, sindhis live far beyond the desert.

Golden bullets are for if Punjab or Kashmir is over-run by IA.

It's all simple, you just need to expand the horizon of your critical thinking

Though this (sub) discussion of ours is going OT; I'll just urge you to re-read on all that has been written on CSD. The putative CSD is not meant to be used/exercised in only one theater/sub-theater. And not only one Corps may be used.
That
should now stimulate your critical thinking, simple.
That said; this thread is about the JF-17; so it will be in order then, to let it go back to that subject.
 
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