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Hi,
We will have to wait and see what BLK 2 has---right now it is pretty much speculation.
MastanKhan sahab, i realy re7ect u for ur veiws and the title of sahab perfectly sits besides ur name, as a mark of respect.Sir,
Firs of all I am not a 'sahab'----. Secondly---I am a firm believer of the fact that there must be a serious debate about issues----. You look at a PICTURE thru your eyes---and I look thru mine----. If for some reason I see something totally different---then I put it as I see it.
If you do not have the ability to comprehend it-----that is your problem---.
Thirdly----for all my discussions and arguments----I give a reason, a solution, a direction. But you cannot see the full picture the moment you see anything going against the grain of your belief deeply ingrained in you by the culture that you live in.
MastanKhan sahab, i realy re7ect u for ur veiws and the title of sahab perfectly sits besides ur name, as a mark of respect.
Your concern for the NOW is appreciated, but when 99 percent of the public fails to pay its taxes each year there is nothing much that can be done. How can the public make the gov accountable when it is itself responsible for most of its miseries. Just how?
Now lets look at things purely from a technological perspective. Slowly but surely an industrial base is coming up when there was none before. In due time when the critical mass is acheived, things are going to speed up. Patience and perseverence is the key.
And with the current announced changes e.g. IFR, better avionics, improved passive radar, and dual rack?
Some where between a 4 and a 4.25---.
like the F 16 flying with the F 15's---and in due time F 16 had formed its own place with the right kind of package and power plant and electronics.
Within 'minutes' all of Paf's planning bit the dust----ie---2---3 weeks ago---. Mr Modi gave carte blanche to its frontline commanders to escalate combat as they feel fit. None in Pakistan air force ever dreamed that situation would become that dire.
Suddenly paf finds itself holding the short end of the stick one more time. Its much touted aircraft is nowhere to be seen---it is not ready yet.
The air force in itself---off course needs a couple of sqdrn's of either the F 15's or the j11---15.
I think the PAF needs to lease or purchase either J-11's or -15's, I think they can obtain either. Both China and the KSA influence can help if financial backing can exist, armed by AMRAAMS or in J-11s case, SD-10 (or black market Archer?), these can serve as a good option for now.
JFT needs to come up to speed rather quickly with IFR probe, better avionics and multi-hard point racks for SD-10's. That's very critical. Also, its sad to see that Pakistan doesn't have indigenous built SAM system yet? A medium to long range SAM system proliferated in layers across the border would definitely help.
The PN is a different story all together. I think they need a total of 3-4 squadrons but due to money issues, they are asking for 30 jets. A better situation would be 4 squadrons. 2 can be JFT's and the other 2 can be either used Mirage 2000's or J-10's or J-15's if the PN can get them. Even in PN's case, you still need a hi-lo as you'll be facing Mig-29 MK's with Harriers, Jags supported by Mirages from the land based IN stations.
I think the least the PAF can do, is to go shopping for used -15's or J-11/15's. If these don't become a reality than sizable number of -16's ADF or used Block 40 or more for immediate BVR engagement capability. With the -16's. you'll need 200 of these, supported by 250 advance JFT could do the trick but still single engine platform without the ability to be a missile truck.
Orangzaib,
Within 'minutes' all of Paf's planning bit the dust----ie---2---3 weeks ago---. Mr Modi gave carte blanche to its frontline commanders to escalate combat as they feel fit. None in Pakistan air force ever dreamed that situation would become that dire.
Suddenly paf finds itself holding the short end of the stick one more time. Its much touted aircraft is nowhere to be seen---it is not ready yet.
Fortunately for them---the SU 30 just falls to earth out of the blue skies because the pilots seats decide to eject themselves---the rafale contract is still in pending----the trainer aircract has issues popping up with its tail and rudder---.
Pak navy wants 30JF 17----they would be better off with a sqdrn of JF 17's and a sqdrn of JH7S----.
The air force in itself---off course needs a couple of sqdrn's of either the F 15's or the j11---15.
Hi,
I think paf needs a Devil's Advocate----they have been at it for too long and most of their decisions have been anti state----on the verge or of actual treason. I think it is out of incompetence----and a lack of POLITICAL situational awareness----. They are still living in the dog fight world.
Pakistanis have been gushing over the PAF for too long----these guys need to be smashed to the ground and need to smell the dirt ---.
I think it would be a good time to release Dr Afridi and find 3 to 4 sqdrn's of F 16's and 2 to 3 sqdrn's of F 15's----+ other goodies.
@Donatello @MastanKhan
Sir, i have been reading your posts regarding Indian hawkish attitude and deliberate flare up of hostilities by them at LoC. All out war is a very distant probability. Modi sarkar has its own agenda, they are doing all this to please internal audience. The more serious challenge to Pakistan is more of a diplomatic one then military. Indians are some what impatient with the withdrawal of Coalition forces from Afghanistan+Operation ZeA successes. The kind of diplomatic honeymoon they have been enjoying vis-a-vs Pakistan after 9/11 is about to be ending now. With West attention shifting to ISIS and middle east, Indians want to squeeze off some last juice from this closing window. Remember 2001 attack on Indian parliament and subsequent stand off also 2008 mumbai attacks and its aftermath. Both times Indians were able to get concessions from Pakistan on Kashmir issue. Pakistan did gave up its historic stance on Kashmir due to its weak political and diplomatic position as well as international pressure. Biggest success for India was that it shifted Kashmir issue from a legal and moral freedom struggle to just another Islamic terrorism issue.
Now India is trying hard to get Pakistan to a stance where it is forced to accept LoC as a permanent border. Indians are also interested to implement Israel like solution to Kashmir by revoking article 370 and changing demographics of Kashmir. Nawaz Sharif government docile attitude towards India and very weak internal political strength is acting as a catalyst in this equation.
Having said this, the moral of story is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Strong PAF is guarantee of peace in South Asia.With the induction of F16 Block 52 and BVR capability, balance is somewhat restored as far as Air warfare is concerned. Indian air force is strong on papers but there are lies some big damn lies. Rafale is not coming before 2018. MKI fleet is not 100% available at any given time. Mig29, Mirage 2000 upgrades are pending and long behind schedules. Obsolete Mig27 and Mig21 are not going to give IAF air superiority alone. MKIs will not be available for each and every role also and on every front.
What if in case of war Pakistan decide to play a game of denial? Can India in current situation afford an all out war?
One factor which everyone forget (may be conveniently), there is some understanding between Pakistan and Saudis. In case of all out war, it will not be a surprise if IAF have to encounter F15 too. Any how kindly let this point be a fantasy as of now.
Coming back to JF17 in a naval role. JF17 has not that much of long range but it can very well deny Karachi blockade. Pakistan EEZ is roughly 200nm in Arabian sea and that what PN job is to defend. IMO, J10B (a delta wing) is more ideal for naval role then JF17.
One more question for knowledgeable guys over here, can we design or almost reverse engineer a Mirage III/V like fighter in future? Afterall its been 50 years now that we are operating them, over hauling them. With little modifications in design, chinese engine and available avionics, isn't it will be feasible to start our new project after JF17?
@Donatello @MastanKhan
Having said this, the moral of story is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Strong PAF is guarantee of peace in South Asia.With the induction of F16 Block 52 and BVR capability, balance is somewhat restored as far as Air warfare is concerned. Indian air force is strong on papers but there are lies some big damn lies. Rafale is not coming before 2018. MKI fleet is not 100% available at any given time. Mig29, Mirage 2000 upgrades are pending and long behind schedules. Obsolete Mig27 and Mig21 are not going to give IAF air superiority alone. MKIs will not be available for each and every role also and on every front.
One factor which everyone forget (may be conveniently), there is some understanding between Pakistan and Saudis. In case of all out war, it will not be a surprise if IAF have to encounter F15 too. Any how kindly let this point be a fantasy as of now.
IMO, J10B (a delta wing) is more ideal for naval role then JF17. One more question for knowledgeable guys over here, can we design or almost reverse engineer a Mirage III/V like fighter in future?