JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Bratva]

give me the link for this, and not for the long one

Fuselage comes from china, objective is to began making fuselage inhouse from block-3 onwards. All the avionics are manufacture in house, china gave license so we can manufacture it in house. The detail of components we manufacture is on PAC website. 50 percent is build in Pakistan. Target is to increase manufacturing percent to 70-80 percent which means the whole aircraft sans engine, since 20-30 percent is of engine.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Fuselage comes from china, objective is to began making fuselage inhouse from block-3 onwards. All the avionics are manufacture in house, china gave license so we can manufacture it in house. The detail of components we manufacture is on PAC website. 50 percent is build in Pakistan. Target is to increase manufacturing percent to 70-80 percent which means the whole aircraft sans engine, since 20-30 percent is of engine.

oh so it means we have a somewhat claim to the plane, so when it is shown in some Air show, we are given credit for the production too?

 

[Bratva]

oh so it means we have a somewhat claim to the plane, so when it is shown in some Air show, we are given credit for the production too?

Yes.

 

[S.Y.A]

Yes.

so, why not make the engine here, too?

 

[Bratva]

so, why not make the engine here, too?

Russian factor plus the lack of money and know-how

 

[S.Y.A]

Russian factor plus the lack of money and know-how

lack of know how will persist if we keep sitting and saying we dont know how to do it. atleast try to produce some parts of the engine here, or assemble it here.

 

[Bratva]

lack of know how will persist if we keep sitting and saying we dont know how to do it. atleast try to produce some parts of the engine here, or assemble it here.

Know-how comes with $$$ and good relations with industrial nations. Both of which we lack unfortunately.

 

[rohailmalhi]

give me the link for this, and not for the long one

Here you go

JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

 

[syedali73]

Russian factor plus the lack of money and know-how

Actually it is neither lack of money nor any other factor but our habit of buying things off the shelf and never getting involved in serious R&D. There is no lack of talent; see when we decided to develop nuclear weapons, we did, and it happened because of sheer commitment. We are operating Jets from 1950s onwards. Was it very difficult to get trained a lot of engineers in metallurgy and jet propulsion? Why we did not do that? 65 years is a very long period for nations to get established a generation of skilled personnel, but we were never interested. China, South Korea, Taiwan, Israel, India, Germany, Japan, all these countries started out with us and look where they are standing and where are we. Many members here do not have an insight into the hopeless (I repeat hopeless) situation of R&D but I have, for I am in close contact with many scientific institutions in Pakistan. You will not believe if I tell you stories of non-serious, in-fact almost criminal attitude of those sitting in the top positions.

Since I am at a good academic position in a University here in Malaysia and I have every imaginable facility to carry out quality research, I thought I should host some researchers from Pakistan. I discussed this matter with my Director who agreed to sign up a MOA with a Pakistani University of my choice. I wrote to a big-shot who I happen to know for almost 15 years. He also expressed interest but required me to furnish all the documents, which I did. I sent the documents to the Pakistani University and requested them to get their legal team have a look and let me know with the dates for the proposed visit. Since MOA can only be signed by the VC of our University, we arranged for the funds and now waiting for the dates from the Pakistani University. It is now almost two months and even my emails are not being replied. I have yet to receive the reviewed MOA and the dates for the proposed visit. My Director and the VC have asked me several times and I have no updates for them. Can you imagine how badly my position is affected because of the careless attitude of the Pakistani University? Do you think I will ever think about signing a MOU/MOA with any Pakistani University?

 

[S.Y.A]

Actually it is neither lack of money nor any other factor but our habit of buying things off the shelf and never getting involved in serious R&D. There is no lack of talent; see when we decided to develop nuclear weapons, we did, and it happened because of sheer commitment. We are operating Jets from 1950s onwards. Was it very difficult to get trained a lot of engineers in metallurgy and jet propulsion? Why we did not do that? 65 years is a very long period for nations to get established a generation of skilled personnel, but we were never interested. China, South Korea, Taiwan, Israel, India, Germany, Japan, all these countries started out with us and look where they are standing and where are we. Many members here do not have an insight into the hopeless (I repeat hopeless) situation of R&D but I have, for I am in close contact with many scientific institutions in Pakistan. You will not believe if I tell you stories of non-serious, in-fact almost criminal attitude of those sitting in the top positions.

Since I am at a good academic position in a University here in Malaysia and I have every imaginable facility to carry out quality research, I thought I should host some researchers from Pakistan. I discussed this matter with my Director who agreed to sign up a MOA with a Pakistani University of my choice. I wrote to a big-shot who I happen to know for almost 15 years. He also expressed interest but required me to furnish all the documents, which I did. I sent the documents to the Pakistani University and requested them to get their legal team have a look and let me know with the dates for the proposed visit. Since MOA can only be signed by the VC of our University, we arranged for the funds and now waiting for the dates from the Pakistani University. It is now almost two months and even my emails are not being replied. I have yet to receive the reviewed MOA and the dates for the proposed visit. My Director and the VC have asked me several times and I have no updates for them. Can you imagine how badly my position is affected because of the careless attitude of the Pakistani University? Do you think I will ever think about signing a MOU/MOA with any Pakistani University?

the university i go to is hailed as the best engineering and science uni of pakistan, most of the teachers here have doctoral degrees from foreign uni. but the uni and the campus i am in, has no interest in R&D. people with doctoral degrees from abroad in aeronautical and electronics and whatnot are just being wasted here.

 

[MastanKhan]

so, why not make the engine here, too?

A 'research & dev' should not be asking this question---.

 

[Bratva]

Actually it is neither lack of money nor any other factor but our habit of buying things off the shelf and never getting involved in serious R&D. There is no lack of talent; see when we decided to develop nuclear weapons, we did, and it happened because of sheer commitment. We are operating Jets from 1950s onwards. Was it very difficult to get trained a lot of engineers in metallurgy and jet propulsion? Why we did not do that? 65 years is a very long period for nations to get established a generation of skilled personnel, but we were never interested. China, South Korea, Taiwan, Israel, India, Germany, Japan, all these countries started out with us and look where they are standing and where are we. Many members here do not have an insight into the hopeless (I repeat hopeless) situation of R&D but I have, for I am in close contact with many scientific institutions in Pakistan. You will not believe if I tell you stories of non-serious, in-fact almost criminal attitude of those sitting in the top positions.

Since I am at a good academic position in a University here in Malaysia and I have every imaginable facility to carry out quality research, I thought I should host some researchers from Pakistan. I discussed this matter with my Director who agreed to sign up a MOA with a Pakistani University of my choice. I wrote to a big-shot who I happen to know for almost 15 years. He also expressed interest but required me to furnish all the documents, which I did. I sent the documents to the Pakistani University and requested them to get their legal team have a look and let me know with the dates for the proposed visit. Since MOA can only be signed by the VC of our University, we arranged for the funds and now waiting for the dates from the Pakistani University. It is now almost two months and even my emails are not being replied. I have yet to receive the reviewed MOA and the dates for the proposed visit. My Director and the VC have asked me several times and I have no updates for them. Can you imagine how badly my position is affected because of the careless attitude of the Pakistani University? Do you think I will ever think about signing a MOU/MOA with any Pakistani University?

The professor under whose supervision we did our final year project was a P.H.D doctor in embedded systems. He eventually left our Uni after two years of joining because there was no scope of R&D and he said despite they provided me the best salary package , it was degrading for my profession that it is restricted only to teaching and besides they assign me clerical tasks I can't rust my skills here. He went back to France, where he is in research center and researching on Next Gen data centers and how to control heating issues.

Syed sahab, you got a valid point, there are lot of loopholes in our R&D, but that is one of many reasons of not doing R&D in to engines. Looking at india and china, India burned billions of dollars and struggling for last 10 or more years to develop an engine, yet they are unsuccessful in it. China is in similar position they have burned more than 10 billion dollars and more than a decade and still they are struggling in their quest of engine. Do we have such kind of resources to put in to engine development?

Building an engine is more complex than building a nuclear bomb. In nuclear bomb, physicists accurately predict and model the inner workings of bomb and what should be done to yield desired output. There are less unknown variables.

In engine development, It is riddled with unknown variables from start to stop. It's a trial and error/hit and miss approach. It took x numbers of tries to get a perfect composition of materials which can sustain x amount of yield for x amount of time and engine must have x amount of hour lives besides engine should be fuel efficient. In engine development everything is decided on the run. If we can't get a perfect composition or metallurgy , we have to start from Zero.

 

[danger007]

Not to forget the JF-17 is at the moment the only aircraft advertised and in operation to carry the Hypersonic CM-400AKG Carrier Killer Missile.

Argentina and Iran could cause some serious naval devastation if they can get their hands on these. However pressure from UK for Argentina and UN sanctions for Iran makes a JF-17 sale to these countries very unlikely.

China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS


"The CM-400AKG is now part of the operational weapon set of the PAF's JF-17 Thunder multirole fighter. "This is a mature weapon that has been fully tested. It is not conceptual. It is in service," Air Commodore Mahmood Khalid, PAF JF-17 Deputy Project Director stated. "The CM-400AKG is a very high-speed missile that is very tough to intercept. It hits the target at Mach 4 or above and its kinetic impact alone is enough to destroy any high-value target, like an aircraft carrier."


The CM-400AKG first appeared, briefly, in public at last year's Dubai Airshow, when a placard for the weapon was placed alongside a PAF JF-17 - and then removed. The weapon itself was not shown. At the time PAF personnel acknowledged it was a new Chinese-built air-to-surface stand-off missile. However, the initial assumption that it was a derivative of the C-802 anti-ship missile has proved to be very wide of the mark.


The CM-400AKG is a 400 kg solid-rocket-powered weapon that can be fitted with either a penetrator or blast/fragmentation warhead. It is a fire-and-forget precision-guided weapon that can be fitted with several seeker options, which are understood to include an active radar seeker and an imaging infrared seeker with target-recognition (TR) capabilities. PAF sources say the missile can be pre-programmed with digital imagery for highly precise attacks against fixed sites in TR mode, but it can also be retargeted in flight by using the radar seeker option.

The range of the CM-400AKG is estimated to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).
Both CASIC and the PAF note that the CM-400AKG has been developed as a JF-17 Aircraft carrier killer weapon."

CM-400AKG weighs 400kg with range 150+ km ... I don't know how much impact it will create on mammoth like AC. . neither have idea how much payload it consists.. One missile is not suffice to sunk AC. ..

 

[monitor]

CM-400AKG weighs 400kg with range 150+ km ... I don't know how much impact it will create on mammoth like AC. . neither have idea how much payload it consists.. One missile is not suffice to sunk AC. ..

Any attack by CM-400 might damage the carrier if not sink can effectively keep the carrier from active duty for some time would be enough for moral victory for Pakistan navy on the other hand would create a psychological pressure to Indian navy.

 

[syedali73]

CM-400AKG weighs 400kg with range 150+ km ... I don't know how much impact it will create on mammoth like AC. . neither have idea how much payload it consists.. One missile is not suffice to sunk AC. ..

Indeed, one may not be enough but why assume that only one will be fired?