JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[Neo]

If someone can just to clarify.....is the JF-17 a fourth generation aircraft? would it mean that once inducted into service it will be pakistan's most advanced aircraft?...that is until the rival of the F-16 block 52+?...then what category is the block 52+...i.e is i a 5th generation aircraft?

Fox, JF-17 is a gen 4 fighter, its definately better than the F-16A/B that we have at current and it comes close to the block 50.

Many consider block 52 F-16C/D to be more than a gen 4 aircraft. Its not only the airframe but the weapons and avionics suite that qualify the block 52 to be close to gen 4.5.

UAE's block 60 F-16 is definately a gen 4.5 design.

Read Keys detailed post about the generations, its a good read.

 

[Adux]

Block 60 is at best a 4.5 gen. there arent much of design change there.

The only current 5th gen aircraft flying are the F-22, and F-35. Stealth and Supercruise is considered a 5th Gen quality. Building a Spitfire today wont make it a 4th Gen aircraft.

 

[Neo]

True, F-22 and F-35 are the only existing gen 5 platforms.
Imho a gen 5 fighter is per definition atleast Stealth.

 

[Interceptor]

'Pakistan Air Force to Induct High-tech Aircraft Soon'
By Aziz Malik ‘Pakistan Times’ Federal Bureau Chief

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force would soon induct “near to high-tech” and high-tech fleet of fighter-bomber aircraft with the aim to modernize the country’s air force, said Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mamood Ahmed on Friday.

“We have plans to replace our ageing fleet with the fourth and fifth generation fighter-bomber aircraft till year 2015,” he said while briefing newsmen regarding future plans of PAF with special regard to the manufacturing of JF-17 Thunder aircraft with the help of China, at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra.

He said the number of aircraft in the fleet would also be enhanced from existing 320 to 400.

He said PAF was finalizing to purchase high-tech J-10 type aircraft from China and initially two squadrons of this fifth generation aircraft would be inducted in the PAF.

Terming the newly manufactured aircraft JF-17 Thunder as most lethal aircraft, to be included in the inventory of PAF, he said “presently we have plans to induct 150 Thunder aircraft in the fleet and later on their number would be enhanced up to 250.”

“10 to 12 squadrons of PAF would be equipped with the supersonic, lightweight and multi-role Thunder platforms,” he added.

He said the aircraft was capable of carrying all types of weapons and added “JF-17 Thunder is no less than a good aircraft available in the market.”

He said the plan for procurement of 18 brand new and 24 pre-used F-16 aircraft from the US was going according to its schedule. He said the renovation and upgradation of 32 other F-16 aircraft was also going as per the time frame.

He said plans were also in-hand to achieve the technology for air-to-air refueling of the aircraft and added we would attain the capability prior to the induction of JF-17 Thunder in the PAF by the next year.

He said during this year six more JF-17 aircraft would be received from China as in 2008 the serial production of the aircraft would commence. “In next three years Pakistan would be able to produce 50 % avionics and frame of the aircraft,” he said.

The PAF Chief said, 15 aircraft would be manufactured in 2008 while 20 in the next year with the aim to achieve capability to manufacture 25 to 30 aircraft per year.

Answering a question, he said the provision of engine for the aircraft was being managed by China and expressed the hope that there would hardly be any influence of any third country to affect the project.

He said the engine of the aircraft was an improved version of MIG-29 aircraft of Russia and the manufacturer (Russia) has already signed an agreement with China for their uninterrupted supply for JF-17 Thunder.

He dispelled the impression that Pakistan was in any arms race and said “our arms and equipment are for peace and to maintain the peace. We have no offensive design.”

In reply to a question, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said JF-17 aircraft was manufactured at almost half the price of any other aircraft of fourth or fifth generation platform available in the market.

He said this aircraft (JF-17) was an outcome of the knowledge and expertise gained by Pakistani and Chinese experts by using variety of technologies during the past five decades.

He expressed the hope that in the days to come, the aircraft would capture market, due to its high performance at comparatively low cost.●

http://pakistantimes.net/2007/03/31/top4.htm

 

[Cheetah786]

After the recent go ahead given by Russians for RD-93 export to Pakistan, as expected, articles by some who are unfriendly and chronically biased towards China and Pakistan have started to trash the JF-17. What is not very clear as to why attempts were being made to block the engines for such a supposedly inferior aircraft.

However, good news keeps coming out suggesting a very positive picture of PAF and its new additions in the coming days.

The latest June issue of the Air Force Monthly Magazine, carries an interview with PAF Chief. The article is at least 6-7 pages long and discusses the following:

1. PAF will be raising the number of JF-17 to 250
2. First 50 will be equipped with Chinese made avionics which Pakistan helped develop.
3. PAF will equip the 2nd batch with AESA. Negotiations in progress with Thales or Gaileo '
4. 16th and 26th squadrons will be the first to get the Thunder;
5. Chinese KLJ-7 radar turned out to be more advanced and capable than the APG-66 on F-16A/B. APG-66 is being replaced by APG-68(v)9 through the MLU;
6.JF-17 to be armed with French, US, and Chinese BVRs. (Wonder what the US position is)
7. Not only the Chinese but the Russians were very cooperative in the development of JF-17.
8. A brand new Air Force base is being built for F-16s

Other points in the article:

1. A minimum strength of 400 combat aircrafts will be maintained. More may be in plans.
2. Middle of 2007, IL-76 will be converted for house and drouge refueling for JF-17
3. F-16 will be equipped with boon refuelling planes for F-16
4. C-130s are being upgraded
5. Erieyes will be joined by Chinese AWACS by 2009.

All the above will be completed by 2012.

 

[Neo]

Wow...I haven't bought my copy of AFM yet.
I'll read it all tonite I hope. Thanks for the preview mate!

 

[PakSniper]

I"m buying the mag tonight! This is very nice I hear it's 7 pages dedicated to PAF!

 

[ahussains]

After the recent go ahead given by Russians for RD-93 export to Pakistan, as expected, articles by some who are unfriendly and chronically biased towards China and Pakistan have started to trash the JF-17. What is not very clear as to why attempts were being made to block the engines for such a supposedly inferior aircraft.

However, good news keeps coming out suggesting a very positive picture of PAF and its new additions in the coming days.

The latest June issue of the Air Force Monthly Magazine, carries an interview with PAF Chief. The article is at least 6-7 pages long and discusses the following:

1. PAF will be raising the number of JF-17 to 250
2. First 50 will be equipped with Chinese made avionics which Pakistan helped develop.
3. PAF will equip the 2nd batch with AESA. Negotiations in progress with Thales or Gaileo '
4. 16th and 26th squadrons will be the first to get the Thunder;
5. Chinese KLJ-7 radar turned out to be more advanced and capable than the APG-66 on F-16A/B. APG-66 is being replaced by APG-68(v)9 through the MLU;
6.JF-17 to be armed with French, US, and Chinese BVRs. (Wonder what the US position is)
7. Not only the Chinese but the Russians were very cooperative in the development of JF-17.
8. A brand new Air Force base is being built for F-16s

Other points in the article:

1. A minimum strength of 400 combat aircrafts will be maintained. More may be in plans.
2. Middle of 2007, IL-76 will be converted for house and drouge refueling for JF-17
3. F-16 will be equipped with boon refuelling planes for F-16
4. C-130s are being upgraded
5. Erieyes will be joined by Chinese AWACS by 2009.

All the above will be completed by 2012.

Nice changes coming into PAF in a Short time Which Rise the Technical abilites tooo

 

[Regal]

Guys for now enjoy the May edition of AFM on JF-17, I will try to post the current exclusive ASAP as well

<Editted out for copyright issues>

Please provide a summary of what's in the in the article and just give a reference to the magazine, date, issue#.

 

[Muradk]

Regal please forgod sake delete the Copy it is a copy right. Alan the editor has complained to me about copy right. After a long time they have started to give PAf importance in there mags. I would appriciate that members go and buy the mag if they cannot get it contact me by PM i will send it to you, It will cost me nothing so I request PFF to delete the page and I am ready to mail the copy to any one any where in the world. I hope you all understand what AFM is doing for us ( PAF) and we should appriciate That.

MK

 

[Adux]

I have my reservations about it yet it is Such a beautiful aircraft;

 

[manibag]

Definately JF-17 is overall a very good fighter aircraft PAF will definately have acess to the latest technology through Chiniese arm, but why china is not inducting this fighter jet in large no. in its own Air Force?.
It should also be noted that the induction should be fast and on time not as India is facing in LCA programme.

 

[Interceptor]

Definately JF-17 is overall a very good fighter aircraft PAF will definately have acess to the latest technology through Chiniese arm, but why china is not inducting this fighter jet in large no. in its own Air Force?.
It should also be noted that the induction should be fast and on time not as India is facing in LCA programme.

Chinnese want 300 JF-17 in their inventory and are replacing there Chinnese Mig's with them, the production rate at the moment is slow but it will pick up speed as Pakistan is building its JF-17 factory. The LCA is good program however, it requires time because its not very easy building fighter jet it requires lots of R&D and lots of careful testing but India is getting there.

 

[Interceptor]

Stuck in Sichuan: Pakistani JF-17 Program Grounded?

Back in January, DID wrote:

"The military world has no shortage of irony. The defense industry has its moments too, as Pakistan just discovered. An aircraft whose development was driven by military sanctions from the US and Europe is now derailed by military sanctions. This leaves the Pakistani Air Force dependent on an alternative from... America. Meanwhile, the Chinese are left with no export launch customer for a plane they may now have to reluctantly buy themselves, instead of the favoured and more capable J-10. Somewhere in Delhi, champagne is pouring - but first, a bit of background."

The arms market also features no shortage of change, and the agreement India thought it had may have just been reversed by Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin...


The JF-17/FC-1 is a sub-$20 million fighter designed as a co-operative venture between Pakistan and China to replace F-7P (MiG-21+) and Mirage 3/5 aircraft in Pakistan's fleet. China also has options to produce them, but has made no firm decisions and seems unenthusiastic. It's a comparable peer for India's still-under-development LCA Tejas, Taiwan's ****-1 Ching Kuo fighters, and South Korea's T/A-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer & light fighter.

Sino Defense reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 'Xiaolong' has a long history. The site recalls that China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman in 1986 to modernise its J-7 fighter (MiG-21 copy) under the "Super-7" upgrade project, with US and British firms competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was canceled after the Tienanmen Square massacre, but Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation managed to continue the programme with its own resources, and the project was re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1). US sanctions related to Pakistan's nuclear program and Chinese-Pakistani use of ballistic missile components led Pakistan to seek helps from its Chinese ally. A joint development and production agreement was signed in June 1999, with China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan each contributing 50% of the estimated $150 million development costs.

The Saga

The Pakistan Government had hoped to sign a deal to acquire 150 JF-17/FC-1 fighters in 2007, with 8 aircraft in service by year's end. China had reportedly even bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract another 400 engines.

In January 2007, however, Forecast International reported that Russia had just refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines, derived from the RD-33 that equips the MiG-29. According to FI the decision came only a few days after a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, during which a number of joint defense projects were discussed and agreements were signed. These include the MRTA transport aircraft, and reportedly a "5th generation fighter" project, even as the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 is touted as the likely winner of the multi-billion MRCA fighter contract.

Coincidence? Didn't look like it. Replacement with another engine? Unless it's a very close copy, that requires re-work of the entire fighter design and takes years. Just ask the Chinese J-10 project team.

India may need to hold that champagne, however, in the wake of recent reports. India Defence relays an April 26, 2007 report from the Russian newspaper Kommersant, which said that Vladimir Putin himself had personally supervised and signed a "Sino-Russian Fighter Assembly Agreement" which included joint assembly of JF-17 fighter aircraft with RD-93 engines, and their supply to third countries. Kommersant added that:

"This permission will enable the supply of 150 Chinese JF-17 fighter aircrafts to Pakistan, and help implement the contract for the supply of Russian engines worth USD 238 million."

Kommersant added that "the permission does not imply Pakistan's inclusion in the list of countries with which Russia has direct military-technical cooperation." The question is whether Riussian military-technical cooperation would be required under the Sino-Russian agreement. Meanwhile, the Indians appear to have been blindsided. The Press Counsellor of the Indian Embassy in Moscow Ramesh Chandra told Kommersant that "the Embassy was not aware" of the permission for re-export. See India Defence article.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...akistani-jf17-program-grounded/index.php#more

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[Awesome]

Old news repeated again.