Featured JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort

[Cookie Monster]

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

Yeah I keep hearing this...that "they were outnumbered...and pulled back while reinforcements arrived"...
...my question is do u guys not have radars? Or don't know how to use radars? Radars pick up roughly how many jets are incoming...so if the ground radars picked up a large formation of incoming PAF jets...why did IAF send the 4 jets only to pull them back?

U may think it's some face saving excuse...but its much more embarrassing for ur military when u guys use this excuse. It shows that ur air force has no idea what it's doing...inept at using ground radars and unable to come up with an appropriate response from the get go...this is what's implied by ur pathetic face saving excuse.

 

[graphican]

If you had a brain you would be dangerous.....the IAF was expecting retaliation....most of PAF packages were in Pakistan air space but according to you the IAF ran away as if they were being engaged by all 24 aircraft.
PAF had at least nine IAF jets in sight.

Indians have no excuse anywhere. Pakistan had warned them of counterstrike in advance. Stupid if they didn't prepare and stupid if they sent 4 aircraft to confront a raging airforce. Indians have two choices to explain their misery and none of them is comforting:

• Either Indians must admit they are stupid and didn't prepare although Pakistan had warned it is coming
• Or Indians are incompetent that they could not confront an incoming attack.

You will find Indians kind of take a middle line where they part call themselves stupid but not too much as it hurts and part blame their dated hardware but not too much as it makes them feel lost and minify their self-image before Pakistan. Operation Swift Retort overwhelms them and they cannot experience reality as it happened nor they are ready to take either of the blame on their face. That is why their best resting spot it a lie: an "F-16 is downed" so they could shed some shame off their faces.

 

[StormBreaker]

Off you go my friend.

Haha
Savage, reminds me of “ shuh shuh”

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Bhai! That wasn't a window shopping day neither it was supposed to bag kills. Active battle scenario with total application or ROEs that falls with all the points for PAF. Don't you see that IAF lost on every level, from ROEs to Engagement.

Why the clearance was not given, I am sure that wasn't a mere choice of personal likes or dislikes. When such decisions are made in split seconds, they comes after the best of considerations & evaluation of lot of factors. Indeed, 7 to 9 kills could have been made or may be less but what has to happen then-after? May be the plan was to teach a lesson without much killings on that side. At- least, we have seen the affects. You just let few of them to live and you know what will they tell at home base? What will be their psychological affect since then? and how all of them will feel on next engagement? I am just counting few while there could be lot of achievements for psychological warfare. Indian side claimed their violation as a targeted operation against so-called specific camps or whatever and PAF did the same thing within the same rule being set by India that to target specific locations with a message to not to violate Airspace and also, shooting down 2 of them to make them fear PAF that it could be done as well. Indians set the rule and PAF did lot better but in even manners.

Thanks for the comprehensive message and i totally agree with you. It was just me fantasizing that it would have made us all very proud if one kill has been associated with JF-17. But as you said the pressure in such high time was such that no one can think of things like that. Anyway it is still very encouraging that Jf-17 not only breaks the lock but at the same time it was able to lock on the mighty SU-30.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

Outnumbered? HOW? you were expecting PAF response, infact we told you that we are coming for you. How can you be outnumbered?

 

[newb3e]

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

where were tejas sarr? did the truck pulling them run out of fuel sarrr? tejas when sarrrr?

 

[The Eagle]

Haha
Savage, reminds me of “ shuh shuh”

Just look at what he said Bhai.

There are too many loopholes & incorrect assessment by him for that day as if anyone starts to repeat the same, we will need hundreds of pages similar to Feb 27th Thread. By such account of 6:1, he accepted that actually IAF was sleeping despite the fact that PAF was air-born and reaching. By the same statement, it appears like Indian Military was sleeping having tharra for the last night. Nobody shows but only 4 on that day? Yeah, IAF was outnumbered because PAF CAS has to ring on a speed-dial number of B.S Dhaona. Instead of saying that even the numbers mentioned by IAF contradicts to what he think let alone outnumbered. That is, in other words, hall of shame. Now it is turning out to be "wo baray larkay le aya thaa" or "Ab k mar k dakh".

Now on totally different note; look at what Pakistanis did to Military despite being the victorious. I mean, almost every internet general has grilled and even disrespected the force for leaving few them alive. Why I am mentioning the two sides just so that we can compare as what we are dealing with.

Even the weather of Karachi doesn't change that fast like Indian stories.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Haha
Savage, reminds me of “ shuh shuh”

Waat lagao magar pyar se.

 

[The Eagle]

Thanks for the comprehensive message and i totally agree with you. It was just me fantasizing that it would have made us all very proud if one kill has been associated with JF-17. But as you said the pressure in such high time was such that no one can think of things like that. Anyway it is still very encouraging that Jf-17 not only breaks the lock but at the same time it was able to lock on the mighty SU-30.

Welcome bro. I am just adding with whatever I have. Furthermore, not just the lock but in-fact it was a whole scene of hide & seek, as to what different accounts acknowledges. Thunder broke the locks and so IAF been having a continuous tone for what is coming next and then the voice was, bingo or radar issue or whatever. Speaking of Thunder Alone, neither MK2s nor MKIs could succeed to catch the little beast. May be a bit could have been exaggerated on different occasions but conclusively, when it came to tango; Thunder was above of them rivals.

I remember in an interview one of the PAF high-up dis say that Thunder did well by dodging the MICA missiles fired by Mirage-2000

Had the Indian fired a bullet; they would have claimed total air superiority on that day. Yeah, I can acknowledge that MK2 and so the MKI, tried their level best but never had the chance to lob one. In return, tone was sent like a message of death from nowhere.

 

[Ark_Angel]

Why was IAF so illprepared just one day after the events of 27 Feb?

As per the info we have IAF Cheif *Bull Sh*T Dhanoa* mislead his political masters About the status of availability of Fighters in IAF fleet.
1. Pre 26 Feb when the plan was presented to CCS regarding Balakot, IAF in its concluding remarks presented a picture where there will be Little to No PAF response due to Certain Edge perceived by IAF in their own war game analysis.
2. IAF relied heavily on input by Israeli security team in Devising tactics for Balakot OP.
3. IAF and Indian Politico Mil Hierarchy created a new phrase in their Military Terminologies known as *The New Norm* which was to replicate the Israeli Tactics over Syria where by SOW weapons will be used to show Mil Superiority over the adversary presumably without inviting response.
4. From what know, from 3rd Party sources, The Current IAF cheif was against Balakot OP. He speaks less and is a thorough professional, gets the job done and was on the left of BS Dhanoa due to his vocal reservations regarding any misadventure.
4. Firing solution to SPICE glide weapons were inserted by Israeli Team themselves not IAF personnel. The resultant off target impact created strains between the Israeli Firm and IAF, results are being seen today HAMMERS have been ordered by IAF for Rafales implicating a complete European Armament for Indian Rafales.
5. IAF was anticipating a response, They were ready, but not as prepared as they should have been, Which lead to a disaster on their side during the Skirmish.
6. Post 27 Feb IAF activity went to almost zero, from what the Langar Gup is BS Dhanoa was given a heavy dressing down by Doval and Indian Leadership opted to use Brahmos as a response, which adds weight to this Theory. However that would have received a response the would have been the Armgageddon.
7. JF-17s proved their Mettle in the combat, Thunder Pilots were itching to get the green light to release their BVRs off the rails, ROEs are ROEs, you violate them your out.
8. It’s always a treat to listen to convo of Abhi and his GC lady Officer. I wish all Pakistanis can hear it one day. However The most entertaining is when the Vipers light up their Radars
And watch the Indian CAP turn and scoot away. Youngsters are youngsters. *Sir in ki Phat gai hai* quipped a lad.
9. Rafales with Metoer Combo has already been catered for. The Balance of Power to Shoot First will remain in the hands of PAF for the foreseeable future and will Only grow at a fraction of the cost, While IAF will continually be ripped by Foreign OEMs.
10. ACM Rakesh is a professional, I would be concerned about his approach to overhaul his airforce. Will keep an eye on how they go about things. His direction is fine, but the current challenge at Ladakh will prove his mettle.

 

[YeBeWarned]

it shows that the trouble IAF pilots have on that day, they were stuck between a ditch and a hard place, where ditch would be F-16 and hard place our JF-17 , For second I feel bad about them but then I realize they first violate our sovereignty.

 

[SQ8]

Don’t expect the Indians to give an iota of truth on this matter because they will never speak it even if it they have one available(although they have none given to them since this is a very muddled episode on their side since all the command and operational failure guys are trying to save their skin - hopefully one of their honest and truly dedicated individuals will open this shameful episode on their end.. if only India had a Kaiser Tufail.. many horrors would be exposed but also gallant and intelligent folk would be rewarded).

The situation on our side is a little different in that once the picture was analyzed after the fact new details have emerged that only reinforces the panic within IAF command once they lost the first flanker.
What those details are is where the confusion starts because everyone speaking to whoever is going to get a different story based upon the date and source.

I had a small whatsapp with a F-16sq member who was airborne that day - my version is likely limited both by opsec and his perspective/information.
Someone who may speak to AVM Paracha would have a different view and so on.


The common theme is clear:

We are 95% sure a Su-30 was blown clear out of the sky with 70% confidence that at least one pilot not making it.

We are sure that despite our focus to hit treelines or “useless” targets - some ancillary damage occurred with the ReKs.

We heard every exchange that happened on every IAF channel and once the Su-30 event happened it was absolute panic - almost a Erich Hartmann situation(WWII German Ace with 352 kills - his tactic was to come out of nowhere and make sure one fighter was blown to smithereens in front of the entire group causing utter panic)

The M2ks ran - no other word for it since their controller wanted them to engage but their flight lead smartly realized that was suicidal and faked the radar failure.

Abhinandan’s flight of 4+1 seemed to take longer to get off the ground and hesitant to engage or held off. The valiant but foolhardy attempt by him was pretty much a lone wolf attack with the associated results.

The IAF was extremely textbook with tactics except Abhinandan’s masking attempts

By the time other IAF assets came meekly into the picture- our Strike assets were well beyond egress while the fighter sweep was enforced with additional CAP elements. They(IAF) were outnumbered through the entire day while we were preparing to hit back again with additional strikes if they tried coming in - they never did. Instead the Brahmos were moved in pretty large numbers which we do consider dangerous and hence our MRBM’s were moved as well. Best guess is that the IAF high command was deflated and despite their more motivated pilots from their M2K sq wanting a second scrap.

As already mentioned here, they tried using single aircraft hit and run tactics to hide under airliners but in one hilarious case the Su-30 with its massive RCS was seen earlier than the airliner it was trying to sneak in with.

In conclusion - “Aap aye, hamne dekha aur aap dar ke jo samajh aya phek kar aur hamare darakht shaheed kar ke bhag gaye. Phir ham aye, aap ko andha bana ke aur Raptor of the subcontinent ko do tukron mein karke aur faujion ko ptsd de kar chale gaye - muft ka mehman bhi de diya aap ne aur phir apne Russian Oniks ke peeche chup gaye”

 

[Riz]

On 27 feb. PAF successfully jammed Russian, Isreali & and French radars and denied there locks... This excites me alot then shooting down a old mig & MKi

 

[denel]

Israelis are more connected to MKI, they were present there on the fateful day.

says who? please do not put fabricated claims.

Israelis did a bad job of patching up electronics onto MKI?

There is nothing wrong with isreali electronics - they are the best. Unfortunately the end users are useless so what is the point.

 

[SQ8]

says who? please do not put fabricated claims.


There is nothing wrong with isreali electronics - they are the best. Unfortunately the end users are useless so what is the point.

Customer support can be construed at times as folks present.
There was no case of Cubans directly fighting you guys - just tech support on site to ensure that their equipment worked as advertised.