JF-17 and PLAAF

[SBD-3]

I've been thinking about the topic of JF-17's role in PLA for a long time and decided that this is a probably a good time to put it in words. When JF-17 was started, the agreement was that China will buy 250, whereas Pakistan will buy 150. It looks like Pakistan will now place an order of 250 JF-17s due to the improvements that CAC made to the plane. It is expected to be used as the work horse of PAF in mostly A2A roles. Around the world, CAC is expected to market this fighter as a replacement to the F-7 series. Depending on the choice of avionics, weapons and engine, the price tag of JF-17 could be anywhere from $10 to $20 million. In PLAAF, China already has a hi-lo combination in J-10 and J-11. Future variants of J-11 will be used for long distance strike, ground attack, anti-ship missions and long range escort missions. Its range and payload allowed it to be chosen by PLANAF over J-10 for the first generation of PLAN aircraft carrier. J-10 remains the most deadly fighter jet in PLAAF and will be work horse of PLAAF for the next 2 decades. In the past few years, it has handed lopsided defeats to su-27/J-11A/su-30mkk in PLAAF exercises. Even against J-11B (which is equipped with a newer generation of avionics), it can still achieve parity with its much smaller RCS and greater maneuverability. With the modified J-10 coming into service soon, it will be the main air superiority platform until CAC's twin-engined "J-10" and SAC's 5th generation fighter comes online. It would seem like the core of PLAAF's fighter force would not include JF-17. JH-7A will be the main strike platform in both PLAAF and PLANAF until J-11BS comes along. JF-17 is not likely to take over the role of JH-7A or J-11BS in the future. Aside from that, J-7s and J-8s currently occupy the role of cheap aircrafts in PLA. JF-17 is obviously viewed by many as the prime candidate to take over the roles of J-7 in PLAAF. I think the number of JF-17s to be deployed in this role depends on the eventual cost of JF-17 and the number of regiments PLAAF wants to keep. if PLAAF chooses to keep the current number of fighters, JF-17 will obviously get a few hundred orders. If that does not happen (as is most likely the case), JF-17 will have to fight against J-8F for orders. It may surprise many people, but a WP-14 equipped J-8F would have many advantages against JF-17 (e.g: better T/W ratio, higher payload, better supersonic performance, more space for radar+avionics). So, where does JF-17 most likely fit in? The answer seems to be in the role of Q-5 replacement. Now, it has been believed for a long time that L-15 will assume the role of replacing Q-5 as the ground attack aircraft and replacing JJ-7 as the main LIFT for PLAAF. It turns out that Hongdu has been a huge disappointment for PLAAF. L-15 is likely to not get any orders from PLAAF in the near future. A decent order is expected for JL-9, but whether it can fully achieve the requirements of PLAAF is another issue. So, what does that mean? A twin-seated JF-17 will be required by PLAAF to take over the role of L-15. Obviously, a twin-seated JF-17 can be used to train pilots. It will be a tremendous improvement over Q-5 in flight performance, range, payload and avionics. Of course, changes will need to be made by CAC to make it more suited for CAS missions. However, the relatively low cost of an attack variant of JF-17 (it will not need all the fancy avionics of an air superiority version) would make it extremely attractive to PLAAF. This seems to be the current situation for JF-17. I will follow up if I get newer information on it.

 

[Creder]

mate no flame but could you please split it up into paragraphs i couldnt read it

 

[araz]

I've been thinking about the topic of JF-17's role in PLA for a long time and decided that this is a probably a good time to put it in words. When JF-17 was started, the agreement was that China will buy 250, whereas Pakistan will buy 150. It looks like Pakistan will now place an order of 250 JF-17s due to the improvements that CAC made to the plane. It is expected to be used as the work horse of PAF in mostly A2A roles. Around the world, CAC is expected to market this fighter as a replacement to the F-7 series. Depending on the choice of avionics, weapons and engine, the price tag of JF-17 could be anywhere from $10 to $20 million. In PLAAF, China already has a hi-lo combination in J-10 and J-11. Future variants of J-11 will be used for long distance strike, ground attack, anti-ship missions and long range escort missions. Its range and payload allowed it to be chosen by PLANAF over J-10 for the first generation of PLAN aircraft carrier. J-10 remains the most deadly fighter jet in PLAAF and will be work horse of PLAAF for the next 2 decades. In the past few years, it has handed lopsided defeats to su-27/J-11A/su-30mkk in PLAAF exercises. Even against J-11B (which is equipped with a newer generation of avionics), it can still achieve parity with its much smaller RCS and greater maneuverability. With the modified J-10 coming into service soon, it will be the main air superiority platform until CAC's twin-engined "J-10" and SAC's 5th generation fighter comes online. It would seem like the core of PLAAF's fighter force would not include JF-17. JH-7A will be the main strike platform in both PLAAF and PLANAF until J-11BS comes along. JF-17 is not likely to take over the role of JH-7A or J-11BS in the future. Aside from that, J-7s and J-8s currently occupy the role of cheap aircrafts in PLA. JF-17 is obviously viewed by many as the prime candidate to take over the roles of J-7 in PLAAF. I think the number of JF-17s to be deployed in this role depends on the eventual cost of JF-17 and the number of regiments PLAAF wants to keep. if PLAAF chooses to keep the current number of fighters, JF-17 will obviously get a few hundred orders. If that does not happen (as is most likely the case), JF-17 will have to fight against J-8F for orders. It may surprise many people, but a WP-14 equipped J-8F would have many advantages against JF-17 (e.g: better T/W ratio, higher payload, better supersonic performance, more space for radar+avionics). So, where does JF-17 most likely fit in? The answer seems to be in the role of Q-5 replacement. Now, it has been believed for a long time that L-15 will assume the role of replacing Q-5 as the ground attack aircraft and replacing JJ-7 as the main LIFT for PLAAF. It turns out that Hongdu has been a huge disappointment for PLAAF. L-15 is likely to not get any orders from PLAAF in the near future. A decent order is expected for JL-9, but whether it can fully achieve the requirements of PLAAF is another issue. So, what does that mean? A twin-seated JF-17 will be required by PLAAF to take over the role of L-15. Obviously, a twin-seated JF-17 can be used to train pilots. It will be a tremendous improvement over Q-5 in flight performance, range, payload and avionics. Of course, changes will need to be made by CAC to make it more suited for CAS missions. However, the relatively low cost of an attack variant of JF-17 (it will not need all the fancy avionics of an air superiority version) would make it extremely attractive to PLAAF. This seems to be the current situation for JF-17. I will follow up if I get newer information on it.

A good write!! seems comprehensive. It does seem on the surface that with J10 having developed to the extent and WS10A on the horizon ,with less need for AL31 FN, PLAAF might find commonality and retain the combination for HI-lo combo with J11.
As such FC1 has never made sense to PLAAF. However, there are other imponderables. We all know that J7 have seen better days and will not last long, same can be said for Q5s. Also it is virtually impossible for PLAAF to replace every fighter with J10/11. Reading TP Huang,s site, it seems that PLAAF wants to retain JF17 in the role of ground attack, but again it has planes which may prove to be better.
So at the moment, it seems that Thunder's role in the future PLAAF remains in doubt at best. This is slightly worrying as an interest in Thunder may result in PLAAF being more interested in making future changes which kamra may otherwise have to undertake on its own. I am unaware of what facilities are there on site for this to happen.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Storm Force]

Pakistan declare JF17 to be a Multi role lightweight fighter.

For PLAAF they already have this in J10 which will be their mainstay fighter.

And it looks stunning

The Flankers will play the F15/F18 role and the J10 the F16.

JF17 is china,s F5 tigershark ( built for export only to those countries that required a very low cost modern fighter) BUT not ideal for PLAAF goals ambitions.

 

[Storm Force]

Potential Export nations will be Bangladesh. Veitnam,, North Korea and several small African.south american Air forces.

I dont see any majot player buying Thunders.

The bigger nations like the Arabs will almost certanly go for J10 ie Iran.. Syria Libya

At only $40m each its a great buy

 

[Mani2020]

I've been thinking about the topic of JF-17's role in PLA for a long time and decided that this is a probably a good time to put it in words. When JF-17 was started, the agreement was that China will buy 250, whereas Pakistan will buy 150. It looks like Pakistan will now place an order of 250 JF-17s due to the improvements that CAC made to the plane. It is expected to be used as the work horse of PAF in mostly A2A roles. Around the world, CAC is expected to market this fighter as a replacement to the F-7 series. Depending on the choice of avionics, weapons and engine, the price tag of JF-17 could be anywhere from $10 to $20 million. In PLAAF, China already has a hi-lo combination in J-10 and J-11. Future variants of J-11 will be used for long distance strike, ground attack, anti-ship missions and long range escort missions. Its range and payload allowed it to be chosen by PLANAF over J-10 for the first generation of PLAN aircraft carrier. J-10 remains the most deadly fighter jet in PLAAF and will be work horse of PLAAF for the next 2 decades. In the past few years, it has handed lopsided defeats to su-27/J-11A/su-30mkk in PLAAF exercises. Even against J-11B (which is equipped with a newer generation of avionics), it can still achieve parity with its much smaller RCS and greater maneuverability. With the modified J-10 coming into service soon, it will be the main air superiority platform until CAC's twin-engined "J-10" and SAC's 5th generation fighter comes online. It would seem like the core of PLAAF's fighter force would not include JF-17. JH-7A will be the main strike platform in both PLAAF and PLANAF until J-11BS comes along. JF-17 is not likely to take over the role of JH-7A or J-11BS in the future. Aside from that, J-7s and J-8s currently occupy the role of cheap aircrafts in PLA. JF-17 is obviously viewed by many as the prime candidate to take over the roles of J-7 in PLAAF. I think the number of JF-17s to be deployed in this role depends on the eventual cost of JF-17 and the number of regiments PLAAF wants to keep. if PLAAF chooses to keep the current number of fighters, JF-17 will obviously get a few hundred orders. If that does not happen (as is most likely the case), JF-17 will have to fight against J-8F for orders. It may surprise many people, but a WP-14 equipped J-8F would have many advantages against JF-17 (e.g: better T/W ratio, higher payload, better supersonic performance, more space for radar+avionics). So, where does JF-17 most likely fit in? The answer seems to be in the role of Q-5 replacement. Now, it has been believed for a long time that L-15 will assume the role of replacing Q-5 as the ground attack aircraft and replacing JJ-7 as the main LIFT for PLAAF. It turns out that Hongdu has been a huge disappointment for PLAAF. L-15 is likely to not get any orders from PLAAF in the near future. A decent order is expected for JL-9, but whether it can fully achieve the requirements of PLAAF is another issue. So, what does that mean? A twin-seated JF-17 will be required by PLAAF to take over the role of L-15. Obviously, a twin-seated JF-17 can be used to train pilots. It will be a tremendous improvement over Q-5 in flight performance, range, payload and avionics. Of course, changes will need to be made by CAC to make it more suited for CAS missions. However, the relatively low cost of an attack variant of JF-17 (it will not need all the fancy avionics of an air superiority version) would make it extremely attractive to PLAAF. This seems to be the current situation for JF-17. I will follow up if I get newer information on it.

Duhhhhhhhhhhh man u should be awarded with noble prize on that so long writing hats awf to u
um reading and listening this for a long time that jf-17 is under evaluation for PLAAF but havent yet found any conclusion
Sometimes it makes me doubt that jf-17 is not enough capable to win place in PLAAF ,
One reason may be they have quite a long experience of high tech aircrafts as they are flying high tech su-27,su-30,j-11 and j-10 so they thnk that jf-17 is not upto the par but on the other hand PAF is flying obsolete and ancient aircrafts so as compared to them jf-17 will be better so Paf thought of going with jf-17
lyk the old saying sumthng is better than nothng and PAF had nuthng to loose

Secondly PLAAF has quite a high budget as compared to PAF so they want to opt more costly and high tech fighter which PAF cant afford and in 15 million jf-17 is not worst

Thrdly as China is competing with USA and is an emerging a global power so they need sumthng much better than jf-17 to stay in the game

Fourth reason may b that PAF had the option to use western avionics in jf-17 to improve its performance and PLAAF dont have such option or dun want to use western avionics that might b the case

Well thats my perception ,Everyone has a right here to oppose me if he thnks

 

[TaimiKhan]

Hasnain, buddy do provide the link to the post also, so that source of the writing can be ascertained too and if required checked.

 

[sonicboom]

The link for above article:

China Air and Naval Power: JF-17 and PLAAF

 

[SBD-3]

@all

Its not my work so.....praise the orgnal one (honesty is the best policy).......and yes taim I'll have to search for it.....dont remeber now

 

[jagjitnatt]

I believe PLAAF will never opt for JF-17. Rather they would sell it to poor nations and make some money to fund their future projects.
JF-17 simply isn't capable enough to compete with PLAAF's current inventory. It makes no sense to replace current aircraft with JF-17. They would rather replace them with J-10, J11 and in future J-XX.
JF-17 was Pakistan's requirement and not China's.
China can afford better planes, Pakistan cannot at the moment. So JF-17 is for Pakistan for next 20 years.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I believe PLAAF will never opt for JF-17. Rather they would sell it to poor nations and make some money to fund their future projects..

There choice.Russia doesnt use a su30 does it make a bad plane?

JF-17 simply isn't capable enough to compete with PLAAF's current inventory. It makes no sense to replace current aircraft with JF-17.

Tejas isnt in league with su30 or other jets why are u making it?

JF-17 was Pakistan's requirement and not China's.

How do u know?and were they idiots to invest millions of $$$

China can afford better planes, Pakistan cannot at the moment. So JF-17 is for Pakistan for next 20 years.

Why are u making LCA you can buy planes toO?
And JF17 will be upgraded to PAF standards u dont have to worry....And from what i have heard,indonesia,egypt,central asians and africans all are interested in it...I even heard the azeris were buying 2 dozen of them........So its not just for the poor i guess?unless u think indonesians egyptians or others are poor?

 

[jagjitnatt]

There choice.Russia doesnt use a su30 does it make a bad plane?

not at all. i never said JF-17 was a bad plane. I just said China has better alternatives.They are working on so many projects.

Tejas isnt in league with su30 or other jets why are u making it?

Because with a good high end you also need a cost efficient low end.

How do u know?and were they idiots to invest millions of $$$

they are working on multiple projects. Some of them see the day of light some don't. Money is not wasted, you gain experience and expertise.

Why are u making LCA you can buy planes toO?
And JF17 will be upgraded to PAF standards u dont have to worry....And from what i have heard,indonesia,egypt,central asians and africans all are interested in it...I even heard the azeris were buying 2 dozen of them........So its not just for the poor i guess?unless u think indonesians egyptians or others are poor?

Yes, we are making LCA cause we have the funds and to gain expertise in the field so that someday we would be able to make 5th gen world class planes.
I am not worried about anything. JF-17 is perfect for Pakistan. Its low cost and efficient. But its a low-end plane and not a high end, just like LCA. Pakistan's high end is F16. I wish Pakistan luck for their future products.
dil pe mat le yaar

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

not at all. i never said JF-17 was a bad plane. I just said China has better alternatives.They are working on so many projects
Yes ur right.Just like india is building LCA.

Because with a good high end you also need a cost efficient low end..

they are working on multiple projects. Some of them see the day of light some don't. Money is not wasted, you gain experience and expertise.

R u tellin me that JF17 is just for experience?and they spent more then 500 million $$ for experience while they had been making jets since early 19oos?

Yes, we are making LCA cause we have the funds and to gain expertise in the field so that someday we would be able to make 5th gen world class planes.

Your also making it to replace 250 mig 21 bisons AKA flying coffins.Sure nothing is impossiable.

I

am not worried about anything. JF-17 is perfect for Pakistan. Its low cost and efficient. But its a low-end plane and not a high end just like LCA.

,
Jigar,
Jf 17 is going to be our replacement or J7 pgs and A5 phantoms or fantams.Just like Lca.
Yes but it will be upgraded further and plans are to make it on par with F16 in the near future.After we introduce western avionics.

Pakistan's high end is F16. I wish Pakistan luck for their future products.

And not to forget those upgraded Fc-20s...And sir rumors and different defence news web sites have it that PAF will be buying upto 150 of them.

dil pe mat le yaar

Theek ay ustad jee

 

[Mani2020]

Yes but it will be upgraded further and plans are to make it on par with F16 in the near future.After we introduce western avionics.

According to my knowledge jf-17 is already on par with f-16 block 30 and if not blk 30 thn atleast to blk 15

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Im talking about F16 Block 52 or 60