Japan Offers To Sell India 2 Shinmaywa US-2 Amphibians

[sancho]

+ I've heard for sure that the IN are interested in 10+ airframes- I don't know where Shiv has got this (wrong) figure of 2 from. Common sense would tell you 2 is not enough for the Navy- no where near enough!

Interesting video, thx for sharing!

But I still question somehow the need of these kind of aircrafts in IN. The main purpose will be SAR missions and patroling civil sea lanes, but that's what ICG should do anyway right? So why doubling these roles?
For the naval defence of India, this aircraft hardly has any benefits, since it's not armed to fight an enemy navy let alone pirats. Even the cargo/troop transport, or the fire fighting roles, makes it actually more suitable as an addition to IAFs fixedwing fleet and not to IN, since IAF makes all the logistical support for IN and IA anyway.
Having these kind of aircraft is imprtant of course, but spreading them over 3 different forces, seems to me not really effective, especially in different competitions.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Interesting video, thx for sharing!

But I still question somehow the need of these kind of aircrafts in IN. The main purpose will be SAR missions and patroling civil sea lanes, but that's what ICG should do anyway right? So why doubling these roles?
For the naval defence of India, this aircraft hardly has any benefits, since it's not armed to fight an enemy navy let alone pirats. Even the cargo/troop transport, or the fire fighting roles, makes it actually more suitable as an addition to IAFs fixedwing fleet and not to IN, since IAF makes all the logistical support for IN and IA anyway.
Having these kind of aircraft is imprtant of course, but spreading them over 3 different forces, seems to me not really effective, especially in different competitions.

I agree that one would think that this bird would meet the needs of the ICG above all else as long-range SAR is probably this bird's primary mission and something it is very good at. But I think this actually reflects the fact that right now the SAR and coastal defence domains are layered- the ICG takes the coast to ~20-30 miles out and the IN takes the remainder all the way to the 200 mile EEZ. As such any long-range SAR roles are carried out by the IN- if you remember back, when an Iranian tanker/merchant ship had an ill crew member on board a few years back about 100 miles off the Mumbai coast, it was a SAR flight (Sea King) of the IN that went to the rescue- not the ICG. Look at the inventory of the ICG- Chetaks, Do-228, ALH etc- all pretty short-legged a/c whilst the IN was TU-142s, IL-38, P-8I, Sea Kings etc etc. Yes they have different overall missions but this is how it stands right now as far as SAR mission stand so going by this logic it makes sense the long-range SAR bird would go to the IN.


Having said that, I had read an article a few weeks/months back on the ICG written by a retired IN officer that stated there was a strict plan being implemented to gradually build up the reach and capabilities of the ICG so they could gradually take over the IN's coastal-protection duties so the IN can be released for power projection and external duties. This will happen in phases over the next 2 decades. As such the ICG is now on the hunt for medium/long range SAR helos(S-70s), UAVs and MR-MPAs as well as inducting larger ships with more endurance. At the same time shore based coastal defence will be handed over to Marine Police units who have ballooned in size and capabilities in the last 4-5 years.

@sancho I had even heard the ICG had been briefed by Bell on the V-22- but that's probably nothing.

Addtioanlly AFAIK the U-2 will also serve the NDRF.

 

[sancho]

But I think this actually reflects the fact that right now the SAR and coastal defence domains are layered- the ICG takes the coast to ~20-30 miles out and the IN takes the remainder all the way to the 200 mile EEZ.

Is that really the case? Remember the Sea Hawks the US offered us in a lease after 26/11, they were meant for ICG not IN. ICG is also looking for longer range naval helicopters now and has a similar requirement for MRMR aircrafts, except the ASW or anti ship capability.
I don't think range is really a limitation for ICG, at least for the costal areas the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea and the more IN can be hooked off from normal patrol or SAR duties, the more they could concentrate on ASW and blue water operations, which are more important for Indias defence. Supporting ICG in SAR operations if necessary and if IN forces are in the area should be logical anyway, but that doesn't mean they need dedicated amphibious aircrafts right?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Is that really the case? Remember the Sea Hawks the US offered us in a lease after 26/11, they were meant for ICG not IN. ICG is also looking for longer range naval helicopters now and has a similar requirement for MRMR aircrafts, except the ASW or anti ship capability.
I don't think range is really a limitation for ICG, at least for the costal areas the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea and the more IN can be hooked off from normal patrol or SAR duties, the more they could concentrate on ASW and blue water operations, which are more important for Indias defence. Supporting ICG in SAR operations if necessary and if IN forces are in the area should be logical anyway, but that doesn't mean they need dedicated amphibious aircrafts right?

AFAIK post 26/11 this has become the case and will remain so for a few more years. In ~2020 the ICG is meant to take over more of the IN's coastal protection duties maybe out to 50-80 miles and then in 2030-35 the ICG is slated to take over protection/cover for the entire 200 mile Indian EEZ- this is what they are gearing up for.


And those Sea Hawks never materialized did they @sancho? Although they most likely will in a few years as well as many other long-range assets. i am talking about the situation of today where the ICG only has a pretty limited remit for now- in the future it certainly makes sense for the ICG to have US-2s of their own and this likely will happen in the long-run (7-10+ years down the line).


I agree the present situation is far from ideal but it is what it is and the measures were taken by the military/security cheifs in the light of the 26/11 attacks so one can't really argue with it.



Also these US-2s will be the most use to the IN down in A&N don't you think @sancho?

 

[sancho]

And those Sea Hawks never materialized did they @sancho?

No, but most likely because of the conditions and not because they wouldn't wanted such helis. The point is, ICG and IN don't have much different requirements when it comes to patrol / SAR aircrafts, helicopters, or even vessels. Which makes it actually unnecessary to operate dedicated SAR planes in IN for the same area too.

Also these US-2s will be the most use to the IN down in A&N don't you think @sancho?

Actually no I don't think so, since that area is under a joint command of the 3 fores AND the ICG, which also has it's bases and assets there. And as I mentioned earlier, besides SAR, the transport of troops and cargo to islands where no suitable airstrip is available, is one of the prime roles of such aircrafts, but that is exactly what IAF is meant for. Transporting cargo via IL 76, AN 32 or C130J now to Port Blair, or use helicopters from their bases in that area. So if the normal uttility roles are the aims, it would make more sense to give them IAF, which can better integrate them in their logistical fleet alongside the mentioned aircrafts and provide the best support to all 3 forces as well as the coast guard.

 

[kurup]

 

[kurup]

 

[Jayanta]

Just 2? For a country the size of India?

Why not go for ToT, or go the Chinese way...reverse engineer it, but with due permission.

 

[manofwar]

Hmmm.....maybe it can be used as a part of the future Indian CBG's as a cargo tranport ship, like the C-2 Greyhound.

 

[surya kiran]

Any idea why the aircraft has different ranges during summer and winter? Is it wave height or stormy weather or something like that?

 

[JayAtl]

I am really pissed of with so many foreign acquisitions that we are indulging in.

At the end of the day, we are not a rich country.

perhaps you can have your defense based on who wins kabadi matches?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

2 as starter,total 10.

 

[Abingdonboy]

2 as starter,total 10.

10 is going to be the first order- Shiv Aroor has got no idea what he's talking about.

As usual!!

 

[Markus]

perhaps you can have your defense based on who wins kabadi matches?

If we keep spending dollars like this (100 million USD for ONE amphibian aircraft), the entire nation will have to do nothing but play Kabbadi the whole day.

 

[JohnyD]

Just 2? For a country the size of India?

yes, it is kind of specialist purpose machine and bit expensive too…Wiki says, only 4 of its kind have been built so far…so 2 not a small qty!