Japan for better economic, defence ties with India

[Gideon]

You need a more united people to works towards a target.

As for the British Empire, it is crumbling after WW2. Most colonies are demanding for independence and is not restricted to India. You are making a poor comparision.

Are you saying that the Indians are not united ? The same can be said of the PRC as well! Even Japan is not "united" as you imagine it to be.
In a democracy, people have different opinoins and different political views. But all share a common understanding and common goals. Unlike Communist nations where everybody says the same thing and nobody has the courage to disagree, democratic nations have differing opinions and differing political viewpoints but that doesnt mean they dont share greater common interests. How else do you explain that 1 billion odd Indians have faith in the ballot box and exercise their franchise every 5 years and the fact that India with so many different cultures and languages is thriving today after more than 200 years of colonial rule ? Or that one man could motivate more than 150 million disparate people to join together in the fight for freedom through non-violence (something that had never been done before! )

You like most chinese underestimate the power of freedom and democracy because you fail to realize the moral strength it endears to its citizens. They might be at odds today and have very little in common but all share the ideas of democracy, freedom, equality, liberty etc. That makes them more "united" than you realize!

As for the British Empire, India was not just another "colony", it was its greatest colony! And despite the freedom movement, they were still able to conscript 2 millions troops to fight WW2 successfully across Africa, the ME and Asia. So India got its freedom not "because" of WW2 but rather "inspite" of WW2 !
Also, the British Empire was actually stronger militarily after WW2 than it was before !

 

[Gideon]

The root of our problems are caused by the mistakes of your fore father.

Our forefathers have nothing to do with YOUR problems! My forefather didnt gut 50 million Chinese or conduct the rape of Nanjing or sell your nation to communism and the ideas of a despot for our profit!

Your problems are because of your OWN weaknesses - both physical and moral.

One good example is the climate issue. West had been burning fossil fuel for decades and done great damaged to the environment. However, to save our environment, it must be shared with developing countries that had limited resources.

So has China been burning fossil fuels for decades and done great damage! When your whole nation is just one big industrial park and the smog blinds the sunlight- that is not because of "decades of using Fossil fuels" in the West but because you were too greedy to realize that for the sake of temporary financial gain you are flushing your environment down the drain!

Limited Resources ? How does China have "limited resources" when you are one of the largest producers of steel, cement, rice etc and millions of workers to do your overlord's bidding!
The only "limited resources" of the PRC seems to be intangible assets like -imagination, freedom and the wisdom to learn from experience of others!

I do agree that at current condition, China and India must do their parts for the environment .

If they want to breath the same air and see the same oceans as the rest of the world, they sure do!

 

[Nemesis]

So has China been burning fossil fuels for decades and done great damage! When your whole nation is just one big industrial park and the smog blinds the sunlight- that is not because of "decades of using Fossil fuels" in the West but because you were too greedy to realize that for the sake of temporary financial gain you are flushing your environment down the drain!

This is incorrect. Global warming has been caused by the developed world. Don't shift problems created by your nation onto us. and please have a look at the per capita emissions of the US compared to either India or China the next time you talk about smog filled industrial cities of China.

PS - I can't believe i'm actually defending China for once

 

[Honor]

This is incorrect. Global warming has been caused by the developed world. Don't shift problems created by your nation onto us. and please have a look at the per capita emissions of the US compared to either India or China the next time you talk about smog filled industrial cities of China.

PS - I can't believe i'm actually defending China for once

lol... that's unbelieveble to me too

For once... cheer to India

 

[Honor]

Our forefathers have nothing to do with YOUR problems! My forefather didnt gut 50 million Chinese or conduct the rape of Nanjing or sell your nation to communism and the ideas of a despot for our profit!

Your problems are because of your OWN weaknesses - both physical and moral.

So has China been burning fossil fuels for decades and done great damage! When your whole nation is just one big industrial park and the smog blinds the sunlight- that is not because of "decades of using Fossil fuels" in the West but because you were too greedy to realize that for the sake of temporary financial gain you are flushing your environment down the drain!

Limited Resources ? How does China have "limited resources" when you are one of the largest producers of steel, cement, rice etc and millions of workers to do your overlord's bidding!
The only "limited resources" of the PRC seems to be intangible assets like -imagination, freedom and the wisdom to learn from experience of others!

If they want to breath the same air and see the same oceans as the rest of the world, they sure do!

I am just mentioning your forefather caused the environment issues. I did not blame them for the Nanjing issue.

Co2 emission per person in the west is far greater than China or India. West should cut down drastically to the emission per person as Chinese or Indian. Can they?

Stop telling me you guys learnt from mistake. You guys still wants to maintain your living standard by not reducing the Co2 emission per pax.

 

[tank]

India will be benifited if R&D centers of Japaneese companies are established instead of Production facilities which cause lot of pollution

 

[r3alist]

Are you saying that India doesnt have adequate "cultural" strength ?

They defeated the greatest empire in the history of the world - The British empire without firing a shot while simultaneously supporting the British in their struggle against despotic forces of Fascism and Nazism.

I think they are more than capable, but I'd rather that they work together with Japan so that both of them can come out stronger and better.

Co-operation is more successful than competition.

what history books have you been reasing?

since when did india defeat the british?

the british were in a rush to leave india is the reality.

 

[Gideon]

This is incorrect. Global warming has been caused by the developed world. Don't shift problems created by your nation onto us. and please have a look at the per capita emissions of the US compared to either India or China the next time you talk about smog filled industrial cities of China.

The US didn't "create" Global Warming nor did the developed world! Global warming is caused by every nation that is putting out carbon into the atmosphere. The Industrialized nations just contributed more!

However that is not to say that India and China are not responsible also by their huge populations and their reckless industrial expansion. India is home to the largest cattle population on the Planet, do you realize how much excess Methane that add to the atmosphere ?

The argument of comparing pollution per capita is just a convenient argument for developing countries but logically it holds no water. Most of India is still agrarian and rural. Most Indians dont have cars. On the other hand, most Americans live urban lives and travel great distances by cars everyday. To compare pollution per capita, you should have a baseline of at least equal GDP/capita between the two countries! Or you can check by pollution/GDP of the two countries to draw a logical conclusion because otherwise it is like comparing a third world farmer with a urban worker which are apples and oranges!

The facts are: A nation like India has a GDP of 3 trillion dollars while the US has a GDP of 14 trillion dollars. Yet, India produces 5% of the worlds greenhouse gasses (ranking 5th globally behind US,China,Japan and Russia) compared to America's and China's 20% respectively. That is India's economy is nearly 1/5th of the US's yet it produces much more than 1/5th the amount of greenhouse gases globally despite being a primarily agrarian economy which is now focused on services industry. Thus even by US standards, GDP wise, India's green house emissions can't be justified.

By the same measure, the Chinese emissions are just mind blowing!

 

[Gideon]

what history books have you been reasing?

The history books NOT written by the British!

since when did india defeat the british?

the british were in a rush to leave india is the reality.

That is the "official" British history book version of events or rather their version of polite euphemisms for common knowledge to the rest of the world. Just like they claim that the British left American amicably when in fact a bunch of farmers and pilgrims got together and drove the Red Coasts screaming out of America- tail between their legs! Or how they "left" the so-called Palestine Mandate when in fact they were chased out yet again by Lehi and Irgun Jewish militias. Or how the Mau-Mau gave a "good time" in Kenya after which they ultimately decided to "leave".

Its ludicrous to claim that the British left India voluntarily and because they were so "benevolent". Anybody who has ever read actual history of India knows that the British left India because they didn't have any other choice!

 

[tank]

"It's an action that is long overdue," Obama said during a speech at a General Motors plant in Ohio. "It will give our auto companies clarity and stability and predictability."

Obama proposes first-ever US vehicle emissions standard : Cars General

The emissions standards are part of an ambitious California plan to reduce emissions of the gases that are blamed for the heating of the atmosphere. Automotive emissions account for more than one-fifth of all such greenhouse gases.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/us/politics/26calif.html


It is unequivocally the most polluting country in the world, which led me to ask, why? If we refer solely to automobiles, the answer is simple: pollution and economy standards and the US desire for bigger is better. Out of all developed countries (the EU, China, Japan etc), the US has the lowest fuel economy standards. Even California, the most actively “green” state, has lower standards than China

Why are The United States' Emissions Standards so Lax? - AutoSpies Auto News

I think every developed and developing nation is a culprit, It doesn't make sense in debating over who is bigger culprit. Culprit is a Culprit.

I think Indo-US Nuclear deal will do hell lot of good w.r.t emmissions.

PS: Every one knows Japan have best technologies in almost every feild except defence. Its good to see India developing good relations with newly formed Japaneese Govt., but certain level of protectionism should be there for home grown companies aganist technology gaints

 

[Developereo]

Anybody who has ever read actual history of India knows that the British left India because they didn't have any other choice!

I usually don't respond to Indians masquerading as Americans, but this statement is so ignorant, it needs correcting.

The British left India for the same reasons all the other European powers left their colonial dominions. It was the end of the colonial era. The British withdrawal had ZIP to do with Gandhi, India or anyone else. They didn't even bother holding on to the oil rich Middle East. Why on Earth would they want to saddle themselves with a billion destitute people?

The myth of peaceful resistance is a good PR stunt for both India and Britain, but has little relevance to reality. Even in the US, MLK achieved bupkis until Lyndon Johnson actually enacted civil rights reforms.

 

[paritosh]

I usually don't respond to Indians masquerading as Americans, but this statement is so ignorant, it needs correcting.

The British left India for the same reasons all the other European powers left their colonial dominions. It was the end of the colonial era. The British withdrawal had ZIP to do with Gandhi, India or anyone else. They didn't even bother holding on to the oil rich Middle East. Why on Earth would they want to saddle themselves with a billion destitute people?

The myth of peaceful resistance is a good PR stunt for both India and Britain, but has little relevance to reality. Even in the US, MLK achieved bupkis until Lyndon Johnson actually enacted civil rights reforms.

I agree...the non-violence movement is a very good way of life and a means to become spiritually awaken...a big political PR move...which achieves little directly...but gets the right amount of world attention to get things done indirectly.
your Karate can only be appreciated by an adversary that knows your style.

 

[Developereo]

I agree...the non-violence movement is a very good way of life and a means to become spiritually awaken...a big political PR move...which achieves little directly...but gets the right amount of world attention to get things done indirectly.

Nonviolence isn't always an option. The people of Bosnia, Kosova, and Rwanda would have been exterminated if they had met their aggressors with flower power.

Unfortunately, what matters is not the political movement itself but the media coverage. We all know the politics behind the freedom fighter/terrorist designation. I find it interesting that the LTTE is designated as a terrorist organization by many countries, but Australian media and politicans refer to them as Tamil Tiger rebels, never as terrorists.

your Karate can only be appreciated by an adversary that knows your style.

Karate is an interesting analogy. My friends who do karate tell me that it is only relevant when two opponents are roughly physically similar. A kid with karate will rarely beat a grown man without karate, unless the man is unusually weak or inept.

Getting back to topic, Japan is a good role model for any country and India can benefit tremendously by shared projects. I am not sure about the defence ties though, because they would send a very wrong message to China, which is already mindful of the Indo-US military ties.

 

[adrenalin]

You most certainly are. Much behind.

They are technologically almost equal to the US except in defense technologies.

Computers, electronics, robotics, nanotechnology, biotechnology, you name it, they are pioneers.

Just look at the number Nobel prizes their scientists in Physics and medicine- to understand how good they really are!

Exactly. If Japs want, they can build nuclear capable missiles in months. Such is their technical superiority.

 

[adrenalin]

I usually don't respond to Indians masquerading as Americans, but this statement is so ignorant, it needs correcting.

The British left India for the same reasons all the other European powers left their colonial dominions. It was the end of the colonial era. The British withdrawal had ZIP to do with Gandhi, India or anyone else. They didn't even bother holding on to the oil rich Middle East. Why on Earth would they want to saddle themselves with a billion destitute people?

The myth of peaceful resistance is a good PR stunt for both India and Britain, but has little relevance to reality. Even in the US, MLK achieved bupkis until Lyndon Johnson actually enacted civil rights reforms.

Exactly, right! Britain left India in a hurry, and Pak got their independence from Britain fighting. Empty vessels sound more.