Jamshed Kiyani's "Revelations".

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

oh pleeasssssssssssss

I had interviewd few lucky ones who were let go by those two mad Mulla Gahzi brothers of the Lal Masjid and they narrated such horrible account of the treatment these so-called custodians of religions meted to these stdeunts of Lal Masjid when the issue was in progess.

How these mullas denied the kids food and water while saving even chips for themselves so please

just lay off

Arite but where are the survivors? Who were still detained.

And I am not defending those mullas all I am saying is if there were any kids or women there. Why we did not save them and took them out? Why the operation took place in an instance and nothing found in the yard while Govt itself claiming that they had hostages.

 

[Naseer Khan]

I am appalled and disgusted to watch Lt Gen (R) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani's interview in Geo TV on 2nd June 2008.The man lacks moral courage. The point to be noted is that he has spoken NOW when it is likelier that due to the over all unrest in Pakistan, Gen Pervez Musharraf might have to go. Gen Kiyani is only acting in advance to save his own skin when there could be a possibility of a trial against Musharraf. He continued to enjoy the perks and privileges linked with his rank. He lacked the courage to speak up or dissent from Musharraf's policy. If he had any guts in him then he should have resigned. But he continued enjoying his position as Corps Commander of the most elite corps of Pakistan Army in the garb of being a close ally of the COAS.If he had ever shown any signs of defiance to COAS then he would not have been commanding 10 Corps, because in his own words on Geo interview he says that its the 10 Corps Commander and 111 Bde Comd who can play an instrumental role in over throwing a civilian government. Incidentally he has been the Commander of 111 Bde and 10 Corps which is the proof that he was a very close and trust worthy subordinate of Pervez Musharraf. That is the reason that he was placed as the Chairman of Federal Public Service Commission on his retirement even without his requesting for that job, as he is claiming now. But a common sense question is that "WHY DID NOT HE DECLINE THIS APPOINTMENT OFFER?" if he did not agree to Musharraf's policies.
I am sure that this person must have been BRIBED by Nawaz Sharif team to speak against Musharraf. He was talking all non sense. He says that the bodies of the soldiers who died in Kargil war have still not been recovered. Then this so called professional General should be hanged for failing to recover the bodies of his soldiers because very soon after the Kargil war he had taken over as 10 Corps Commander and it was his responsibility to ensure that they were found. Now he is speaking after 9 years which shows that he is a characterless, superficial and shallow person. He juggled with the words and could not answer when Shahid Masood questioned him that did you ever disagree with Musharraf?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Arite but where are the survivors? Who were still detained.

And I am not defending those mullas all I am saying is if there were any kids or women there. Why we did not save them and took them out? Why the operation took place in an instance and nothing found in the yard while Govt itself claiming that they had hostages.

The operation did not take place in "an instant". What operation were you following?

It went on for several hours.

If I remember correctly, and I was following the op. on Aaj TV Live online at the time, there was a group of about 50 or so women and children who ran out of the building at the beginning of the operation.


There were also Mullah Aziz,s own statements, that he had a thousand students with him inside, that the government had to treat as authentic (which I believe turned out to be a lie on Mullah Aziz's part).

There was no excuse for the Lal Masjic Mullah's actions. For whatever reason some people think that Islam is associated with crack heads and thugs like these terrorists, and will come up with conspiracy theories to defame the government rather than accept the fact that the guys were terrorists who had to be taken out.

 

[blain2]

Arite but where are the survivors? Who were still detained.

And I am not defending those mullas all I am saying is if there were any kids or women there. Why we did not save them and took them out? Why the operation took place in an instance and nothing found in the yard while Govt itself claiming that they had hostages.

DD,

70 women and Children were taken out the day of the operation. Prior to that, almost 1500 people had left the complex. The government obviously did not know down to the man who was inside. The other side used the bogey of civilians inside to the hilt as well to deter the government from taking action. The fact of the matter is that the Mullah party has never been able to prove that more than a 100 people died in this operation. Where are the graves? Are we saying that SSG took the bodies away with them? Do you think some officers within the X Corps/Rangers would not have mentioned to someone if such an atrocity had been committed by the government?

The fact, which is hard to swallow by the Mullah party and those against Musharraf, is that given the circumstances, the casualties incurred were low as unfortunate as even those were. Now the operation is being used to gain propaganda points and all the opponents of Musharraf have to say is 100s or 1000s were killed and there is no burden of proof upon them. Such is the Pakistan of today. Hypocrisy, lies, not owning up to anything are the norms of the day. These character attributes by the way are not found in the government alone either, the Pakistani society as a whole displays these attributes.

 

[blain2]

I am appalled and disgusted to watch Lt Gen (R) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani's interview in Geo TV on 2nd June 2008.The man lacks moral courage. The point to be noted is that he has spoken NOW when it is likelier that due to the over all unrest in Pakistan, Gen Pervez Musharraf might have to go. Gen Kiyani is only acting in advance to save his own skin when there could be a possibility of a trial against Musharraf. He continued to enjoy the perks and privileges linked with his rank. He lacked the courage to speak up or dissent from Musharraf's policy. If he had any guts in him then he should have resigned. But he continued enjoying his position as Corps Commander of the most elite corps of Pakistan Army in the garb of being a close ally of the COAS.If he had ever shown any signs of defiance to COAS then he would not have been commanding 10 Corps, because in his own words on Geo interview he says that its the 10 Corps Commander and 111 Bde Comd who can play an instrumental role in over throwing a civilian government. Incidentally he has been the Commander of 111 Bde and 10 Corps which is the proof that he was a very close and trust worthy subordinate of Pervez Musharraf. That is the reason that he was placed as the Chairman of Federal Public Service Commission on his retirement even without his requesting for that job, as he is claiming now. But a common sense question is that "WHY DID NOT HE DECLINE THIS APPOINTMENT OFFER?" if he did not agree to Musharraf's policies.
I am sure that this person must have been BRIBED by Nawaz Sharif team to speak against Musharraf. He was talking all non sense. He says that the bodies of the soldiers who died in Kargil war have still not been recovered. Then this so called professional General should be hanged for failing to recover the bodies of his soldiers because very soon after the Kargil war he had taken over as 10 Corps Commander and it was his responsibility to ensure that they were found. Now he is speaking after 9 years which shows that he is a characterless, superficial and shallow person. He juggled with the words and could not answer when Shahid Masood questioned him that did you ever disagree with Musharraf?

Naseer,

I could not have said this any better myself. Moral integrity, for lack of which he condemns Lt Gen AAK Niazi for is something that he himself does not display.

There have been other Lt Gens and Admirals (Yaqub Khan and Adm Ahsan come to mind) who decided to move on when they thought the approach was not right and in conflict with their own principles. Had Musharraf's military rule been on Lt Gen Kiyani's conscience, he would not have taken up his post as X Corps commander. Yet he continued to enjoy the President's confidence and even after retirement took up a post which no retired military man should be in (it should go to a senior FPSC official), again due to the graces of the President/CoAS.

Talk about biting the hand that has fed one.

On the issue of bodies, what he said is factual. In the Siachen and Kargil sectors, many troops have been lost and their bodies not recovered. Its not due to negligence, rather the effort to retrieve the bodies may be more dangerous and lead to further loss of life due to the terrain. Additionally in many cases, we just simply don't know where these bodies are.

 

[Naseer Khan]

I think a senior officer like general Kiyani should himself be tried by a court martial for revealing the Army secrets which he had kept to himself for 9 years since Kargil war.He should be asked that what did he do as the Corps Commander to improve the defence bunkers of Pakistan Army along the LOC in Kashmir and in Northern Areas?The troops are still in shanglas or unconstructed bunkers. He is also lying about the use of phosphorus grenades. Shahid Masood,who is a big conspirator and a sly person himself,should have asked Kayani (who is proud of being from Infantry) that has he ever seen a phosphorus grenade? Shahid Masood was pursuing his own agenda of taking revenge from Pervez Musharraf since he was banned from TV for some time.He never cross questioned Kayani as he does with any other guests in his programme. Can Kayani justify the presence of heavy weapons in Laal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa?Was that a place of learning or fighting the government of Pakistan?Why were those weapons held there in the first place?When more than 3000 people left the premises why that Mullah and his accomplices did not leave? What was the government supposed to do after waiting patiently for more than six months since January 2007 and asking them to surrender?
Very soon somebody is going to reveal what malpractices have been going on in the girls hostels of Jamia Hafsah.Who brought same type of long sticks in bulk is any body's guess.Let me tell General Kayani that he is only trying to jump off the sinking ship. But how can he be absolved of,if any,wrong doings have been committed by Musharraf? After all he has been a very close and trusted friend of the COAS,though he has proved himself to be the BRUTUS for Musharraf !!!!!

 

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

The operation did not take place in "an instant". What operation were you following?

It went on for several hours.

If I remember correctly, and I was following the op. on Aaj TV Live online at the time, there was a group of about 50 or so women and children who ran out of the building at the beginning of the operation.


There were also Mullah Aziz,s own statements, that he had a thousand students with him inside, that the government had to treat as authentic (which I believe turned out to be a lie on Mullah Aziz's part).

There was no excuse for the Lal Masjic Mullah's actions. For whatever reason some people think that Islam is associated with crack heads and thugs like these terrorists, and will come up with conspiracy theories to defame the government rather than accept the fact that the guys were terrorists who had to be taken out.

Well i was watching it live on various channels at a time, yes at a time.
The time that first explosion heard, from that time it took I think half an hour to secure the main building while the basement was still not secured. The main problem I had was no matter how many of em were there we should not have kill them. We could paralize or make them unconcious through GAS and other stuff . We could have known the cause of the problem and who was behind it. Killing was not the solution. Yes, people tried to make it a sectarian thing like the army men used were Shias etc and there were many stories but it could have handled better then how it was handled.

 

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

I am appalled and disgusted to watch Lt Gen (R) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani's interview in Geo TV on 2nd June 2008.The man lacks moral courage. The point to be noted is that he has spoken NOW when it is likelier that due to the over all unrest in Pakistan, Gen Pervez Musharraf might have to go. Gen Kiyani is only acting in advance to save his own skin when there could be a possibility of a trial against Musharraf. He continued to enjoy the perks and privileges linked with his rank. He lacked the courage to speak up or dissent from Musharraf's policy. If he had any guts in him then he should have resigned. But he continued enjoying his position as Corps Commander of the most elite corps of Pakistan Army in the garb of being a close ally of the COAS.If he had ever shown any signs of defiance to COAS then he would not have been commanding 10 Corps, because in his own words on Geo interview he says that its the 10 Corps Commander and 111 Bde Comd who can play an instrumental role in over throwing a civilian government. Incidentally he has been the Commander of 111 Bde and 10 Corps which is the proof that he was a very close and trust worthy subordinate of Pervez Musharraf. That is the reason that he was placed as the Chairman of Federal Public Service Commission on his retirement even without his requesting for that job, as he is claiming now. But a common sense question is that "WHY DID NOT HE DECLINE THIS APPOINTMENT OFFER?" if he did not agree to Musharraf's policies.
I am sure that this person must have been BRIBED by Nawaz Sharif team to speak against Musharraf. He was talking all non sense. He says that the bodies of the soldiers who died in Kargil war have still not been recovered. Then this so called professional General should be hanged for failing to recover the bodies of his soldiers because very soon after the Kargil war he had taken over as 10 Corps Commander and it was his responsibility to ensure that they were found. Now he is speaking after 9 years which shows that he is a characterless, superficial and shallow person. He juggled with the words and could not answer when Shahid Masood questioned him that did you ever disagree with Musharraf?

I have read the same reply somewhere else same thing but the thing you are saying is absolutely rite why are these so called RTD. Generals and Supahis waking up now after retirement.

 

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

DD,

The fact, which is hard to swallow by the Mullah party and those against Musharraf, is that given the circumstances, the casualties incurred were low as unfortunate as even those were. Now the operation is being used to gain propaganda points and all the opponents of Musharraf have to say is 100s or 1000s were killed and there is no burden of proof upon them. Such is the Pakistan of today. Hypocrisy, lies, not owning up to anything are the norms of the day. These character attributes by the way are not found in the government alone either, the Pakistani society as a whole displays these attributes.

Could not agree more

 

[Naseer Khan]

Naseer,

I could not have said this any better myself. Moral integrity, for lack of which he condemns Lt Gen AAK Niazi for is something that he himself does not display.

There have been other Lt Gens and Admirals (Yaqub Khan and Adm Ahsan come to mind) who decided to move on when they thought the approach was not right and in conflict with their own principles. Had Musharraf's military rule been on Lt Gen Kiyani's conscience, he would not have taken up his post as X Corps commander. Yet he continued to enjoy the President's confidence and even after retirement took up a post which no retired military man should be in (it should go to a senior FPSC official), again due to the graces of the President/CoAS.

Talk about biting the hand that has fed one.

On the issue of bodies, what he said is factual. In the Siachen and Kargil sectors, many troops have been lost and their bodies not recovered. Its not due to negligence, rather the effort to retrieve the bodies may be more dangerous and lead to further loss of life due to the terrain. Additionally in many cases, we just simply don't know where these bodies are.

I agree with you. It is impossible to locate bodies lying under millions of tons of snow. But this point should have been taken correctly. Not in the sense the professional Kayani was saying as if no one wanted to bring those bodies back.

 

[opinion786]

Lt General Gulzar LIED and twisted talk in many places.

1- Gen. Kiyani's true color showed up during corp commander Rawalpindi posting when he started manipulating local and district governments and had his relative as District Nazim.

2- Phosphorus grenades are one of the most common types of grenades. They are also called stun and smoke grenades. Lt Gen. Jamshad was clearly twisting the term Phosphorus and labeling them as 'chemical weapons'. All smoke or stun weapons can be termed as chemical weapons. Why didn't he clarify 'ansoo gas' used in riot control is a a chemical weapon also.

PA Cobras made observation flights twice during the siege but never fired a bullet.

3- Lt Gen Gulzar Kiyani is a taliban supporter and opposed force against Taliban, but was willing to throw PAK into a direct war with USA in 2001 after 9/11.

4- Till November 2007, he was occupying a JOB given by Musharraf. Till then he was OK with Musharraf and his policies. The moment he was relaxed of his JOB, he decided that Musharraf is a tyrant and should be tried for treason.

5- If he was a man of principle, he should NOT have taken a JOB blessed by Musharraf, and should have spoken against Musharraf in 2004.

6- Gulzar Kiyani said the Ordinance promulgated by General Musharraf extending and fixing the tenure of the Chairman FPSC and their member from three to five-year was excellent but revoking it later was indeed most unfortunate and unthinkable. http://dailymailnews.com/200603/30/n...itypage08.html

JOB JOB JOB is all that matters these crooks !

 

[opinion786]

Brahamdagh Bugti endorses BLA activities

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA) Chief Organiser Brahamdagh Bugti said on Monday that he supports the acts carried out by the BLA and also believes the statements issued by it.

Talking to Aaj TV, Bugti said weapons received by the government from the US over the last seven years had been used against the Baloch people. He said though the Baloch people had been putting up resistance for a long time, the martyrdom of Nawab Akbar Bugti had instilled a new life in the movement.

He said the anti-government acts in Balochistan were in reaction to the killing of several innocent people in the military operations. He said the Baloch people were funding the movement, adding that it was ready to accept financial assistance from others also. He said he was not abroad but in Balochistan.


Balochistan Liberation Army seeks independent Balochistan. We cannot allow them to break Pakistan at will and desire of India.

 

[opinion786]

Around 2000 women and kids were rescued in the Lal masjid operation.

The militants inside refused to let go the few remaining. There were foreigners also inside that Ghazi himself accepted & acknowledged during his interview on PTv and later telecast by GEO. Probably the foreigners didn't allow Ghazi to go out, after Aziz ran out in Burqa.

Those that wanted to go to Heaven .... should have been transported to their desired destination! These barbarians deserved what they got!

We should symphatize with the soldiers that died and not these extremists who kept women & kids caged.

 

[NAB]

Well iam glade i wasnt at a cave you were at they didnt even teach you Manners

Again cave man mentality at work here this is obviously a Man who didnt get his candy and now is going around crying like a loser.

Well Cave and then Candy! This is the problem when the only source of learning english is hollywood.

balochies that are fighting Pakistan army don't consider them selfs Pakistani wana bajor people are in the same boat they want all from Pakistan but don't wanna be Pakistani(thats why they are considered FATA area)they for along time have given shelter to anti Pakistan elements.

Well!!! Bravo, since balochis,people from wana and bajor arent Pakistani, Now the lawyers from Pakistan arent.... Iftikhar is definitely not pakistani... Nawaz sharif is also not Pakistani... Benazir was never a pakistani... Dr. AQ Khan (mind u, he is one of the most disliked Musharraf's personality a/c to his stupid book) is not a pakistani..... and the list goes on and on....

Btw then only you and musharraf are left and You two are the only pakistanis

Musharaf is far better Pakistani and a patriot then most the garbage thats on the seat now or was there before him.

Garbage!!! Looks whos speaking. The guy who was just reminding me how unmannered I was....

your post clearly indicates you grew up in some seminary and been filled up with propaganda.

Well lucky for me I was brought up in a democratic country instead of an army camp! Fortunately there are only a very few people in Pakistan left like you who like to be dictated and beaten at the hands of a dictator

BY this if u mean terrorist that were caught and sent to USA my congratulations to president musharf for ridding the country of garbage.

>>musharf for ridding the country off garbage.

You wanna know something; the difference between you and me is the same as difference between Musharraf and People of Pakistan.... and that is I will never call my Muslim brother a Terrorist (Just bcuz it pleases the Western powers)!

 

[NAB]

You have every right to contest his arguments, but we do not encourage making assumptions about who someone is.

His identity has nothing to do with whether his argument is valid or not.

Please, try to only address his arguments.

Thx

Sorry about that; I didnt mention in that sense but i do acknowledge the sensitivity of this.