ITT we laugh at this moron

[KapitaanAli]

So how come Rouhani's pro-Western administration was so close to the USA during the Obama administration?

Is there really any difference between Obama and Trump? They both represent the same American deep state. If Obama suddenly comes back into office, will things change again?

Obama decided to ignore the deep state since it was his last term and played along with the Europeans.

Trump is just an irrelevant guy.

 

[HAIDER]

I can't say for all Iranian people, but the ones I met in Europe, both the religious and non-religious, are too impressed by the west and idealise and idolise West but at the same time they absolutely hate the west as well ..and for them visiting USA is like going on a spiritual pilgrimage

Well ,, a majority of Iranian live in West believe Iran was part of Europe it end up in Asia because due to tectonic shift few decades ago ... If you really want to see 10x modern Iranian then visit LA.

 

[AmirPatriot]

So how come Rouhani's pro-Western administration was so close to the USA during the Obama administration?

It wasn't close. There was just less rhetoric and the US was obeying (most of) its JCPOA commitments. There was an atmosphere of begrudging tolerance for each other rather than open and active hostility. I'm sure many of my compatriots will argue with me, and I'm not saying Obama was a friend of Iran, nor Rouhani a friend of the USA. Merely that in comparison with Trump's administration, the atmosphere was very very different. That you say Rouhani's government was "close" to the US with Obama in charge shows how bombastic Trump really is.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It wasn't close. There was just less rhetoric and the US was obeying (most of) its JCPOA commitments. There was an atmosphere of begrudging tolerance for each other rather than open and active hostility. I'm sure many of my compatriots will argue with me, and I'm not saying Obama was a friend of Iran, nor Rouhani a friend of the USA. Merely that in comparison with Trump's administration, the atmosphere was very very different. That you say Rouhani's government was "close" to the US with Obama in charge shows how bombastic Trump really is.

That's the thing, I don't really see any difference between Obama and Trump at all, their policies all follow the same lines given by the American deep state. Trump is just more honest about it. Obama and Trump are just like the Good Cop & Bad Cop routine... in reality they are on the same side regarding America's national interests. Obama softens them up, Trump comes in for the punch.

So like I said, if another Obama comes into office tomorrow, will Iran suddenly be chummy with the USA again? It's this kind of uncertainty that is not conducive to long term goals.

 

[AmirPatriot]

So like I said, if another Obama comes into office tomorrow, will Iran suddenly be chummy with the USA again? It's this kind of uncertainty that is not conducive to long term goals.

Of course we wouldn't be "chummy". We would continue to contest on places that Obama's administration was active in, like Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc. Except the US would be in the JCPOA, allowing Iran to access much needed trade and investment. They would be less cheerleaders of Saudi and Israel. Altogether they would continue to do the similar sorts of hostile actions they did before and during Trump, but with less intensity than Trump. If Trump is 100% against Iran, Obama would be 75%. A big chunk of that is the JCPOA.

And they wouldn't have fucking John Bolton in the white house.

 

[Tokhme khar]

It's a fairly safe bet that the US considers the government of Iran as its number 1 arch enemy. Much more than China, Russia or even the DPRK. There is no change in this relationship since 1979, and the US won't be satisfied unless there is a regime change in Tehran, simple as that.

That's the thing, I don't really see any difference between Obama and Trump at all, their policies all follow the same lines given by the American deep state. Trump is just more honest about it. Obama and Trump are just like the Good Cop & Bad Cop routine... in reality they are on the same side regarding America's national interests. Obama softens them up, Trump comes in for the punch.

So like I said, if another Obama comes into office tomorrow, will Iran suddenly be chummy with the USA again? It's this kind of uncertainty that is not conducive to long term goals.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Of course we wouldn't be "chummy". We would continue to contest on places that Obama's administration was active in, like Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc. Except the US would be in the JCPOA, allowing Iran to access much needed trade and investment. They would be less cheerleaders of Saudi and Israel. Altogether they would continue to do the similar sorts of hostile actions they did before and during Trump, but with less intensity than Trump. If Trump is 100% against Iran, Obama would be 75%. A big chunk of that is the JCPOA.

And they wouldn't have fucking John Bolton in the white house.

Does it feel a little bit suspicious, that Obama (Good Cop) comes along all happy and friendly, and signs a "soft" deal with Iran, which by the way only Iran has to abide by (the USA never bothered to abide by the deal). Making Iran pour concrete into their Arak reactor, shipping all their enriched uranium overseas, and letting nuclear inspectors up and down the country wherever they want.

Then along comes Trump (Bad Cop), rips up the nuclear deal (which America never followed in the first place), and demands a much harder deal under the threat of war and sanctions.

Doesn't this Good Cop + Bad Cop routine seem like America gets everything they want, and they never have to follow any agreements or give up anything themselves?

And of course we have the Netanyahu playing all his cards on cue, screaming at Obama for being a traitor, then that hilarious theatrical show where he unveils a bunch of CD's from the 1990's and the next week Trump immediately cancels the deal. It is like a very badly written theatre play.

 

[Cybernetics]

China is still too isolationist to be able to be able to have a strategic relationship with. it still the same type of mentality the US had pre-ww1. "who cares what anyone else is doing lets just build our own country"

China is still in the mentality of "韬光养晦/hide our capacities and bide our time". A part of this has to do with the Thucydides trap. The rising power challenges the existing power too early and over extends, providing an opportunity for the existing power to strike it down possibly causing a global conflict. New found power entices too many nations to go embark on over extension, causing great internal distress shortly after and inviting external balance of power. China isn't going to attempt something that it feels its backing is not strong enough.

China today has the mentality that every single transaction it makes has to be profitable. If the US comes and demands china stop trading with iran. China will try to negotiate the best possible deal for itself out of that scenario.

I think that is overall true. China is laying the foundations for a future framework but to avoid early overstretch it is making the transactions to build such foundations profitable. China isn't a developed country with seemingly unlimited money, internal development is very costly. It doesn't have the ability to print and export vast amounts of currency (yet), every yuan was the product of labour and saving for decades.

even if you pass them militarily and economically. it will not be enough if you don't develop your own network of allies. and the only way to do that is to portray yourself as reliable.

This perception as an unreliable military ally is actually very beneficial for China for the time being. China needs strategic ambiguity for biding its time while it develops itself. There is no point in confronting the US militarily if it is not needed for survival, its escalation is in accordance to what is thrown at it. Though China will help nations behind the scenes and in indirect ways. When things change, they will change very quickly.

One of the most important elements in the modern world for a major nation is industrial technology. I would argue it is the most important and defining factor of a major nation. Very few nations have it and having bits and pieces of it is not enough but it can make a small nation wealthy. It is the core for any military and economic framework. Before China can form a network of allies (not just by rhetoric) China must establish a solid industrial foundation because once the network is created it instantly challenges the existing order meaning it is susceptible to be cut off from the existing network.

If people want to see what major things China would implement externally, just watch its internal developments and figure out what is the logical next step.

 

[xyxmt]

Dear...

People are anti US policies...not US



You were saying the same, right?

when people say anti US it meant anti US govt and policies, people are never anti any people

 

[Mrc]

Does it feel a little bit suspicious, that Obama (Good Cop) comes along all happy and friendly, and signs a "soft" deal with Iran, which by the way only Iran has to abide by (the USA never bothered to abide by the deal). Making Iran pour concrete into their Arak reactor, shipping all their enriched uranium overseas, and letting nuclear inspectors up and down the country wherever they want.

Then along comes Trump (Bad Cop), rips up the nuclear deal (which America never followed in the first place), and demands a much harder deal under the threat of war and sanctions.

Doesn't this Good Cop + Bad Cop routine seem like America gets everything they want, and they never have to follow any agreements or give up anything themselves?

And of course we have the Netanyahu playing all his cards on cue, screaming at Obama for being a traitor, then that hilarious theatrical show where he unveils a bunch of CD's from the 1990's and the next week Trump immediately cancels the deal. It is like a very badly written theatre play.

But played very well...

I agree with what u say.... it was all part of plan from day 1

 

[Flag_Combo]

China isn't a developed country with seemingly unlimited money, internal development is very costly. It doesn't have the ability to print and export vast amounts of currency (yet), every yuan was the product of labour and saving for decades.

By the time China is ready to project power there won't be any country with major oil & gas left that would want to sell to China in yuan. That's because uncle Sam knows very well that once you get major energy sources under your control those country would never dare to sell energy to China in yuan. Don't think US would let you take away their true power (reserve currency status) and as long as you import your commodities that is priced in USD you will always be dependent on US will and they know it too. You think US would sit quietly while you try build your country & dethrone US dollar, you can't expect to have a cake and eat it too. You think if Iran is under US influence would sell you any oil in yuan currency? or you think Saudis will sell you while their entire security is being provided by US? which country you gonna get oil priced in yuan from beside Russia? You have to fight to secure those vital sources of energy now before being taken.

Here is the leaked paper about what Americans are demanding from China in upcoming next week meeting between US & Chinese trade delegates, they wanna put the screws tight on what China can and cannot do, read it for yourself to see the magnitude of demands, it's eye opening

 

[The Eagle]

Thread created with inappropriate title and based upon single/an outdated picture without any substance to discuss, hence, closed.

Regards,