Itching for another Coup?

[Awesome]

I don't think the proverbial thing has hit the fan yet, but the way things are going I'm certain a lot of politicians would soon be running to Gen. Kiyani and Musharraf.

Weekly bombings, Rupee has crashed and keeps crashing. The government has repeated the old Nawaz Government's crime of freezing several of the top currencies. We're virtually without power for about half a day. The only thing this government was voted in for by the people was to restore the judges, they can't agree on that. Today PML-N has said they'd do what they had planned to do if judges are not restored (quit government?).

What a freakin mess?

And in 3 months. How much time do you suppose they have till they got their act in order before the itch for another coup?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No more coups.

Not now, not soon, not anytime.

Realize that the reason we have no proper institutions is because people are not willing to put in the time and support for democratic systems and institutions to mature.

Also I thought the State Bank Governor, appointed during Musharraf's tenure, was responsible for stopping the export of certain foreign currencies from Pakistan?

Weekly bombings, food crisis and foreign exchange outflow all started during Musharaf's tenure - so lets at least be honest about where the crisis originated.

 

[Awesome]

Musharraf's government reopened the exchange of forein currencies. When Nawaz froze all foreign currency accounts in 1998's emergency, it drove away all investors from Pakistan.

We will see a repeat.

The bombings in Musharrafs time were a retaliation to the WoT. Now they are bombing to get Musharraf removed because they know the current government CAN do that.

But they won't do it.

Its a classic example of giving a hand to the terrorists and they want an arm. The current government has shown that there exists a possibility that we would succumb under their bombing pressure thus it would go on.

In Musharrafs time, the bombings were in small areas. Now Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad Quetta, Peshawar, are all regularly being bombed without any possibility of regaining control.

Democracy has its pre-requisites. We're anti-democratic in nature. Period. We need to fulfill the prerequisites of democracy.

There's no plan. There's no 6point agenda for Pakistan as it was introduced in 1999. Instead there is murree declaration. How are they planning to restore power? How are they planning to get a control on the rupee crash? How will they get investors back in? How will they stop the banned terror groups from operating freely in Karachi? How will they reduce the food shortage?

These issues were there before too. But there was a method to the madness.

 

[Neo]

I hate to agree on this but Asim is right, if situation gets worse we'll once again come under another martial law to avoid civil war.

The coalition is not strong enough to remove Musharraf, nor capable to avoid monetary crisis, we're headed towards a 90's like situation when Nawaz brought us to the brink of bankcruptcy.

The big Q is who'll be the next General, Kiyani or good ole Mushy.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

No more coups.

Not now, not soon, not anytime.

Realize that the reason we have no proper institutions is because people are not willing to put in the time and support for democratic systems and institutions to mature.

Also I thought the State Bank Governor, appointed during Musharraf's tenure, was responsible for stopping the export of certain foreign currencies from Pakistan?

Weekly bombings, food crisis and foreign exchange outflow all started during Musharaf's tenure - so lets at least be honest about where the crisis originated.

One never knows!

Things are getting bad the world over.

Anything can happen and more so in Pakistan where Pakistan has seen stability and prosperity under military regimes ie Ayub and Musahrraf!

True in Musharraf time the fundamentalist had a heyday, but then you win some and you lose some.

It has to be decided is Islam the be all and end all or individual prosperity and peace!

AS it appears now, both can't be had!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Neo:

When will the time be ripe for democracy?

What if the guy after Kiyani is another Zia?

Musharraf was in charge and wasn't able to do anything about the food crisis. What rabbit will he pull out of the hat now, when he couldn't even fix the problems to save his government in an election year?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Salim:

The question is not whether a coup will happen, but whether a coup is preferable.

My opinion reflects my sentiment on the latter.

I also disagree with your opinion on the role of Islam - the issue is not religion. The issue is a lack of continuity in democratic processes.

Extremism is a result of the failure of those democratic processes to deliver the goods, but democracy cannot deliver the goods unless it has time, and time is exactly what a coup would deny the system, and inadvertently strengthen extremism.

On the issue of what "might happen" - there is a greater chance of NS saying good bye to the coalition and the PPP governing with the ANP and MQM, than there is of a coup, IMO.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I have found the religion cannot calm the growls of my stomach and so I have none!

In fact, it is my experience that religion diverts my attention and delivers me into the hands of the evil clergy who nibble at my finances with their hocus pocus and they themselves live well, while my stomach growls and like Atlas I am left holding the worries of the world on my shoulders!

Ánd wait the moment when I bite the bullet of a frenzied religious clot!!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Neo:

When will the time be ripe for democracy?

What if the guy after Kiyani is another Zia?

Musharraf was in charge and wasn't able to do anything about the food crisis. What rabbit will he pull out of the hat now, when he couldn't even fix the problems to save his government in an election year?

Are you aware that there is rationing of rice in the US?

I saw it on TV and have no links!

Why blame Musharraf!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Are you aware that there is rationing of rice in the US?

I saw it on TV and have no links!

Why blame Musharraf!

I am not blaming Musharraf, just pointing out that even with the military at his back, he was not able to fix the shortage, so arguing in favor of a coup (Musharraf/Kiyani) on the argument that they will "fix" these problems seems wishful thinking.

The problems as you rightly pointed out are global and multifaceted and need time and sustained policy to fix, and a coup will only serve to create more instability and investment flight.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have found the religion cannot calm the growls of my stomach and so I have none!

In fact, it is my experience that religion diverts my attention and delivers me into the hands of the evil clergy who nibble at my finances with their hocus pocus and they themselves live well, while my stomach growls and like Atlas I am left holding the worries of the world on my shoulders!

Ánd wait the moment when I bite the bullet of a frenzied religious clot!!

Secularism doesn't do much for filling your stomach either.

Religion is just a convenient tool to shove the blame off on.

The problems are institutional and policy related, and a secular or religious government would have the same issues.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Salim:

The question is not whether a coup will happen, but whether a coup is preferable.

My opinion reflects my sentiment on the latter question.

I also disagree with your opinion on the role of Islam - the issue is not religion. The issue is a lack of continuity in democratic processes.

On the issue of what "might happen" - there is a greater chance of NS saying good bye to the coalition and the PPP governing with the ANP and MQM, than there is of a coup, IMO.

With all due regards to you and Islam, I must say that there is an overpowering influence of religion in everything that is being done.

I have found that wherever religion plays a role, it ruin progress and that is also applicable to India. It diverts the attention and the resolve to catch the bull by the horns, though I will admit, that it diverts the mind from ground realities and worldly miseries; as also accountability of the elected and non elected representatives of governance!

Let us look at Pakistan. I find quite a few posters use Islam as the be all and end all of everything! Even a scoundrel and terrorist like Mehsud and that Red Mosque horror are made a hero! How can such a thought arise. I wonder.

Is our worldly existence have to be subjugated to prop up these scoundrels, just because of religion?

If the Army had not to be deployed in FATA, would that money not help to ameriolate the current food crisis in Pakistan?

The very fact that religion is the core issue, democracy will remain an illusion! Democracy means equality!!

 

[Vinod2070]

You are right. Secularism can't solve these problems.

But at least it does not claim to have a divine guidance. People can question it and change it as per their wishes.

A Religious system does not provide that option. If there is something bad going on, it is God's punishment and no one is supposed to question that!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The problems are institutional and policy related, and a secular or religious government would have the same issues.

Not really.

If there were a Hinduvta govt in India, we would be doomed!

Turkey survives because it is secular.

Religion should be in the house or else the clergy and the fanatics will take over and when fanatics take over, there is chaos.

Religion and governance are not compatible!

 

[z9-ec]

Neo:

When will the time be ripe for democracy?

What if the guy after Kiyani is another Zia?

Musharraf was in charge and wasn't able to do anything about the food crisis. What rabbit will he pull out of the hat now, when he couldn't even fix the problems to save his government in an election year?

Brigadier, Agnostic

Sir, I beg to differ.

Why have you forgotten the fact that during President Musharraf's tenure as President we saw record development in infrastucture, investment and other aspects of way of life.

Another fact is, the food crisis began during the time of the elections and we all know who benefited from all this. Before March 9 07, everything was going as planned but all of a sudden everything went wrong.

By the way, there is a global food shortage currently and inflation all over the world.

Throughout his 8 years in office he has served Pakistan well. I will support him even if he uses 58-2(b) and dismiss the current parliament. The incumbent gov, instead of confronting the real issues the economy is facing today they are visiting foreign countries to discuss local politics in huge mansions and 7-star hotels.